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 Flares
Topic Originator: goldensixties  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 13:34

Has there been any publicity about the flares thrown onto the pitch by Hearts fans during Saturday's game?

Presumably it has been reported to the authorities for possible action?
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: dpard  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 14:00

Haven't heard anything regards Hearts but this is topical
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45275563
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: rmcallister-qh  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 14:09

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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: WORST  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 14:12

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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 14:12

Well there's a reasoned and thoughtful contribution to the debate.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 14:17

Quote:

rmcallister-qh, Thu 23 Aug 14:09

This is what’s wrong with football now people like you crying about flares


I still cry about mine. They are still hanging in the wardrobe from the 70's hopefully will come back in one day, even the thought of tieing my scarf round my wrist makes my eyes get moist.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 14:23

If it's going to cost the club money i'll cry too rmcallister-qh, what a tool.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Sierra Nevada  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 14:28

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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: WORST  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 14:31

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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 16:45

No flares at Boreham, skinny jeans are also not acceptable
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 16:46

Quote:

rmcallister-qh, Thu 23 Aug 14:09

This is what’s wrong with football now people like you crying about flares


So you’re happy that the club are having to spend money repairing our pitch, due to the damage caused by these flares, rather than spending it on things that will benefit the team?

Even if it’s not necessarily new players, I’d much rather we were spending the money on equipment/technology that will help monitor/track fitness or improve the quality of training sessions.

We spent a significant amount of money repairing the pitch during the close-season and will now have to spend more money after just 4 competitive home games, due to damage caused by flares. Do you honestly not think that’s a problem?
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Turps  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 17:53

"It is "only a matter of time" before someone is killed."

Bit over dramatic.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Slevin Kelevra  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 19:48

Sure it was a smoke bomb. Not a flare.

We got style and we got grace
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 20:15

They described it on the radio as a flare for info... Not that that means anything.
What colour was the smoke?
Flare or smoke flare or smoke bomb... It's still a pyrotechnic and has no place in a football ground.
They are dangerous trust me. I've seen a smoke flare burn a guys hand and arm badly. Scarred for life.
Normal ones you can buy online usually burn between 1&2 minutes but marine flares burn longer. 4 to 5 mins usually.



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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Thu 23 Aug 20:42

It’s a flare, it burns at over 1000c! It burnt the ground around it, sometimes a smoke bomb wouldn’t do.
The problem is these are made in various parts of the world not to British/ European standards, which can explode after lightning. So yeah they are extremely dangerous, plus the potential panic if one was to explode in a full stand.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 02:11

Spot on, Dulloch. Anyone that supports the idea of flares at a football match, or indeed in any crowded area, is a brainless moron.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Rigger Al  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 06:30

I dont think anyone on here is supporting flares .
I thought the initial point of this post was if there was a claim against HMFC .For damage to the playing surface .
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 07:06

I think rmcallister is, Al.

I would imagine our chairman will have had a word with Ms Budge. I am sure Hearts would prefer to sort compensation out quietly with EEP rather than bring in the authorities if that can be avoided.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 07:44

Went to football in Cyprus for 5 years and there were flares at every game.
Not one single person was ever hurt.
I don't particularly like the smoke from them or smoke grenades.

Only once in my time in Cyprus did I see anything thrown that looked seriously dangerous.
It was almost like a bomb going off. It exploded right at the feet of a policeman and fortunately the only think that happened to him was the need for a change of underwear.
The incident happens at 9.06 on this video.
https://youtu.be/SvRpHgYRhuE

Post Edited (Fri 24 Aug 07:45)
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Toumba Libre  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 10:34

I support flares/smoke bombs/pyro at the football. It enhances the atmosphere and looks great.
Just keep it off the pitch.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 10:41

Fumes from flares/smoke bombs ain't too healthy for asthmatics.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Roobz  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 11:16

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/flare-kills-football-fan-at-world-cup-qualifying-match-1505057.html

Toumba Libre - that's got to be one of the most idiotic posts ever. Firing flares around stands is even more dangerous than aiming them onto the pitch



Post Edited (Fri 24 Aug 11:18)
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Toumba Libre  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 11:53

Quote:

Roobz, Fri 24 Aug 11:16

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/flare-kills-football-fan-at-world-cup-qualifying-match-1505057.html

Toumba Libre - that's got to be one of the most idiotic posts ever. Firing flares around stands is even more dangerous than aiming them onto the pitch


Can you point out where I said flare guns should be used or that “firing flares around the stands” was a good idea? Digging around the archives to 1993 for a terribly tragic incident as well. Did you just google “flare deaths” ?

I don’t understand why any sane person would need this explained to them but saying ‘pyro enhances the atmosphere and looks great’ does not mean I advocate people using them In a dangerous way or being killed or injured because of them or the use of flare guns. Nor do I advocate them being flung about the stadium.

Is that simple enough for you to understand Roobz?
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Roobz  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 12:07

"I support flares/smoke bombs/pyro at the football"

It doesn't matter whether a flare gun is used or not. It is potentally lethal to fire a flare in a crowded arena.

If you're not sending them onto the pitch, where else are they going to go in a covered stadium? Are you certain that everyone who sets a flare can control its path?

And no, I didn't dig around the archives or google flare deaths. I happened to be at the game, not far from the incident. It could easily have been me that was hit. So in future, olease don't take that condescending tone when you don't know your facts.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 14:00

The word Pyrotechnics covers a wide range of devices, and the term Flares may be misleading.

For example, you can buy Indoor Fireworks which are (obviously) safe to use in the house.

The public are more familiar with commonly used fireworks at Guy Fawkes night and displays.

Then there's the "serious" stuff intended for use by the military, navy and rescue services etc.

These include smoke producing devices (some can be hand held) at the lower end (it's all relative) of the hazard scale, up to rocket propelled flares which are extremely dangerous if used improperly.

It was one of the latter type AFAIK that killed John Hill at the Wales game in 1993.

The lesser risk type can still cause serious injury - they can combust a very high temperature and cause toxic and nauseous fumes if inhaled.

There is no place for these at football games.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 15:16

I don’t buy the argument that they improve the atmosphere. In what way do they contribute to atmosphere? I’ve never seen a flare being thrown and the atmosphere getting significantly louder. It’s just a myth.

Crowds in Europe, with or without flares, are more vocal than crowds in Britain. If people want to sing, they can do so. You don’t need flares/pyrotechnics for that.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: rmcallister-qh  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 17:22

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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Toumba Libre  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 17:29

Again Roobz, where have I said they need to be fired into a crowd? You do know you don’t have to use flare guns or “fire them into crowded areas”?
I understand your reason for being against them but just because you were nearly hit by one, that doesn’t mean you need to misconstrue what I am saying to make your point or feeling known.

Look, I know you can use them with out causing injury or death, you think otherwise and I doubt either of us will be convinced otherwise. Call my view idiotic all you want but I’m just stating a fact.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 17:33

"No wonder EEP has no atmosphere with fans in tears over a couple of smoke bombs!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2di83WAOhU

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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: WORST  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 17:59

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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Angus_W  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 22:13

Totally agree ^^^^^^^^


I have been in the Norrie and witnessed someone throwing a smoke bomb. Having a laugh with their mates and oblivious to where it landed or who it hit. Might as well hurl a claw hammer the terrace.

No place for it - Dangerous and irresponsible.

🔩 ya 🚀
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Roobz  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 22:56

You’re totally missing the point Toumba. Once a flare or firework is set off it’s no longer under control and can end up anywhere. These devices are not in the hands of experts who know what they’re doing with them- they’re being set off indiscriminately with no thought for the safety of others or the damage theylll cause

Seeing you brought it up I did google football flare deaths and within seconds found half a dozen reports of people killed by a flare at football including a 13 year old Barcelona fan and 2 in South America in the past 5 years.

How can you try and justify that it’s acceptable for a young kid to be killed because “it enhances the atmosphere and looks great”?
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: parsloyal98  
Date:   Fri 24 Aug 23:37

Strange that people in UK have a hairy about flares yet are quick to commend the atmospheres of clubs like Dortmund - who use flares and smoke bombs - when asked what clubs they think have decent atmopsheres 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

We love Dunfermline We do!
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 00:03

Are you citing Borussia Dortmund as an example of good practice ?

See this article from 2013 - https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/oct/28/borussia-dortmund-schalke-flair-flares-bundesliga

"At that moment I was ashamed of our supporters," said Klopp after the final whistle. "We won despite these missiles, not because of them." The Dortmund chief executive, Hans-Joachim Watzke, spoke of "antisocial behaviour" that was "intolerable and unacceptable". Stadium bans for the perpetrators were on the agenda, he told Sky on Sunday.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 07:13

Quote:

parsloyal98, Fri 24 Aug 23:37

Strange that people in UK have a hairy about flares yet are quick to commend the atmospheres of clubs like Dortmund - who use flares and smoke bombs - when asked what clubs they think have decent atmopsheres 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️


Because they have a good atmosphere despite pyro maybe 🙄


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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 09:11

"I support flares/smoke bombs/pyro at the football. It enhances the atmosphere and looks great.
Just keep it off the pitch."

Aye, it's safer to chuck them around where people are in spectator areas.

What's a few injuries etc. compared to damage to the playing surface ?
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: rmcallister-qh  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 09:14

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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 09:31

Quote:

rmcallister-qh, Sat 25 Aug 09:14

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45291695?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_match_of_the_day&ns_linkname=sport&ns_source=facebook
>

Could be a sensible move if proved to be safe.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Toumba Libre  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 09:31

Jesus Christ, how many times do I have to say this and how difficult is it to understand that I am not advocating them being used as missiles, fired from guns into crowds or thrown at children.

I know for a fact that you can use them without injury or death and you don’t need military/professional/expert training. To so say they can end up anywhere is drivel. You can just hold on to it or place it on the floor.. they don’t just fly off on their own accord like you seem to think the do.

I’ve seen people throwing cups of tea so on the same premise, should we have this dangerous item banned also? Or shall we just agree that you can handle a cup of tea without disfiguring someone as long as you don’t throw it in their face?

As for people saying it doesn’t add to the atmosphere then fair enough but you obviously haven’t been to games outside of the uk. Try going to Poland, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Greece, Serbia etc and then see if your opinion stays the same.
Flares, smoke bombs, fireworks and bangers are class and enhance an atmosphere.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 09:38

Big crowds enhance the atmosphere. Good play on the pitch enhances the atmosphere. Singing, chanting and bouncing up and down enhances the atmosphere. I've never seen a flare in the stand or thrown onto the pitch and thought that it enhanced the atmosphere. And that's including being at games within and outwith the UK.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: WORST  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 09:44

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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Toumba Libre  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 10:47

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sat 25 Aug 09:11

"I support flares/smoke bombs/pyro at the football. It enhances the atmosphere and looks great.
Just keep it off the pitch."

Aye, it's safer to chuck them around where people are in spectator areas.

What's a few injuries etc. compared to damage to the playing surface ?


Yup because chucking them around is what I am asking for.
Are you incapable of having a coherent discussion or do you just choose to ignore what I post on purpose?
Some people on this forum seem to have a real problem with fabrication.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 11:28

"Yup because chucking them around is what I am asking for."

Unless I've misread your earlier post - you are advocating holding a device or placing it on the ground within an enclosed area.

Are you being serious ?



Post Edited (Sat 25 Aug 11:31)
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Parsweep  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 11:36

Can't understand why anyone would want to throw these things on to the pitch (or even bring them to the fitba ) . Last week v Hearts , the flares didn't enhance the game . In fact they stopped the game altogether until they could safely be dealt with . Should be healthy fines and banning orders for the half wits who are caught with them .

Bobvo
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 11:41

Quote:

kelty_par, Sat 25 Aug 09:38

Big crowds enhance the atmosphere. Good play on the pitch enhances the atmosphere. Singing, chanting and bouncing up and down enhances the atmosphere. I've never seen a flare in the stand or thrown onto the pitch and thought that it enhanced the atmosphere. And that's including being at games within and outwith the UK.


Terracing enhances atmosphere.
Nobody at the club seems interested though.

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Toumba Libre  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 11:53

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sat 25 Aug 11:28

"Yup because chucking them around is what I am asking for."

Unless I've misread your earlier post - you are advocating holding a device or placing it on the ground within an enclosed area.

Are you being serious ?


Correct. I am advocating it being held or placed on the ground as is done every weekend around Europe.
How many times do I have to say that chucking it around, throwing it at children or putting in woman’s hair is not what I want to happen?
To clarify, you don’t need pyro for a good atmosphere, it’s just an extra which adds value to it in my opinion.
I’m not sure why you are getting angry and baffled by this view point?
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 11:59

"Big crowds enhance the atmosphere"

Exactly, Kelty.

Just heard this on radio news.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45291695



Post Edited (Sat 25 Aug 12:06)
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 12:09

"Correct. I am advocating it being held or placed on the ground as is done every weekend around Europe."

Where around EEP would that be possible ?

Just out of curiousity, where in Europe is this practiced ?
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: WORST  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 12:43

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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 13:06

I believe at the moment that it is against the law to enter a football ground carrying fireworks, flares, or any sort of pyrotechnics. In doing so you are endangering yourself and other spectators around you.
So until the law changes that's just the way it is.



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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 13:23

Do we have anybody around here who knows their way around pyro and can speak with some authority on the different types ?

"I believe at the moment that it is against the law to enter a football ground carrying fireworks, flares, or any sort of pyrotechnics"

AFAIK, possession of any such item is an offence for a minor, even before they get near a stadium



Post Edited (Sat 25 Aug 13:27)
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 13:32

I know my way around marine pyros.
Certainly enough to know they should never be near any public event.
No idea about these other pyros available easily online.



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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Toumba Libre  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 14:08

Wow, you two need to calm down then stop fabricating and misconstruing what I have typed.
Show me where I want to break the law, that I am going to do it, burn woman and children, cause death etc etc. Explaining this time and time again is getting boring.

Every time I have asked for you to point out anything that you have accused me of saying or for holding a certain view, none of you are capable of quoting me.

As for where this is done? Try every country that I have listed then add almost every other country around Europe. Since you are so well versed on this issue and practice I thought you would have know this?
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 14:36

"Every time I have asked for you to point out anything that you have accused me of saying or for holding a certain view, none of you are capable of quoting me."

Direct quote, verbatim, from your 11:53

I am advocating it being held or placed on the ground as is done every weekend around Europe.

So, again, are you OK them being used in enclosed areas around EEP ?

"As for where this is done? Try every country that I have listed then add almost every other country around Europe. Since you are so well versed on this issue and practice I thought you would have know this?"

I have no idea what goes down in other countries, except what is flagged up by the media, however, you've named, or alluded to, just about every country in Europe, including Greece and Serbia.

Holding them up as an acceptable example, especially the latter, is baffling.

I have had some modest experience of handling pyro, enough to know that I would not want them near public events in the hands of the irresponsible, what is exactly what would happen if allowed at football.



Post Edited (Sat 25 Aug 16:16)
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 15:30

"Terracing enhances atmosphere. 
Nobody at the club seems interested though."

First point, we're standing on a terrace today and the atmosphere is still poor.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure it has been stated several times that turning the stand into terracing is a long term aim of the club. Until someone comes forward with funding or can guarantee that we'd get a safety certificate for it (Not a given with Fife Council) then it's not plausible at the moment.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 15:56

Quote:

kelty_par, Sat 25 Aug 15:30

"Terracing enhances atmosphere. 
Nobody at the club seems interested though."

First point, we're standing on a terrace today and the atmosphere is still poor.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure it has been stated several times that turning the stand into terracing is a long term aim of the club. Until someone comes forward with funding or can guarantee that we'd get a safety certificate for it (Not a given with Fife Council) then it's not plausible at the moment.


Kelly just ignore him.
He is an expat with a bee in his bonnet.
Maybe gets to 2-3 games a season but has blabbered on about this for 2-3 years now.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Toumba Libre  
Date:   Sun 26 Aug 06:40

Snowflakes
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 26 Aug 12:51

I hope you didnae get up at daft o'clock time on a Sunday morning to post that !!!
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Sun 26 Aug 12:58

Quote:

Toumba Libre, Sun 26 Aug 06:40

Snowflakes


Couldnae sleep with the excitement of the witty post he had up his sleeve
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: Toumba Libre  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 04:06

Couldn’t sleep from thinking about the women and children.
Pathetic and dinosaurs spring to mined.
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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: WORST  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 06:03

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 Re: Flares
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 09:45

Here's a suggestion TL.

See if you can find an old disused semi enclosed barn or outhouse etc. that is partly enclosed with a roof, then set off a suitable smoke generator on the floor, or in your hand as you have indicated- then report back and tell us where in EEP it would be "OK" to discharge such a device.
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