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 Devine sub
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 16:58

For clarification was that tactical to go from 3-5-2 to 4-4-2 ?
Don’t think he was injured was he, he’s booted the roof of the dugout so didn’t look injured?
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: parsfan97  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 16:59

Even more worrying if AJ thinks Durnan is the better CB😂
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: king lad  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 17:02

Durnan is absolutely brutal, we need another CB ASAP
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: Bucuresti Par  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 17:10

At the time we were slowly getting into the game, albeit without creating much and then things quickly fell apart. As above if AJ thinks Durnan is a better option that Devine we have serious problems.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: parsj  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 17:10

Devine lost his man for their 1st goal and had been booked for taking down a player after his own misplaced pass. I think the kick may have been a reaction to his own performance rather than the decision to sub him.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 17:16

Neither of them are good enough to get us out this league. Going from Morris, ashcroft & Mvoto to devine, durnan and ashcroft is a massive step backwards. Would genuinely rather have kept Mvoto than have durnan starting every week.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 17:17

parsj wrote:

> Devine lost his man for their 1st goal and had been booked for
> taking down a player after his own misplaced pass. I think the
> kick may have been a reaction to his own performance rather
> than the decision to sub him.

Possibly but Sandy Clark was ripping into him as if there was an issue
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 17:18

Thought Devine was the best of the 3 centre halves, before he went off. Ashcroft outmuscled by Moffat for the first goal. Third goal (after Devine went off), Ashcroft actually decided to go down in the box looking for a free kick, when there wasn’t even a hint of a foul in it. Terrible from the captain.

Durnan just doesn’t look like a footballer to me. He wins headers, but can’t pass a ball or anything and went awol for the first 3 goals, then just let the ball past him so easily for the 4th.

Devine had actually forced their keeper into a good save. He’d made errors, but so had the other 2. Very harsh to single him out.

We were starting to get into the game at this stage and it was only 1-0. Johnston makes this ridiculous change and it looked like he’d asked Hippolyte to play wing back, with Jackson Longridge playing more defensively and we were suddenly 3-0 down within 10 minutes.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: parsj  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 17:23

Yeah Sandy gave him a talking to - regardless of why he did it, that sort of reaction isn’t on for a pro footballer
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 17:28

Durnan is a total cart horse, how bad must devine be if he was the one withdrawn!

Was morris really holding the whole defence together last season?

Just sitting here drenched in my own negativity!
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 18:02

no but he is a better defender than the 3 that we have, Devine and Durnan are improvements in Mvoto but not on Morris, said that when they signed and seen nothing to change my mind on that.

could have taken any of them off but on a booking it was an easier decision to take off Devine.

whether they switch to a 4 from now on or stick with the 3 we need a centre half with pace.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 19:01

I love the irony of AJ being criticised for making an early sub and changing the system. Managers on the terracing never make mistakes.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: Clarko  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 19:08

wee eck wrote:

> I love the irony of AJ being criticised for making an early sub
> and changing the system. Managers on the terracing never make
> mistakes.

Yeah, coz it worked an absolute treat...
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 19:14

That's the thing about substitutions - they don't always work despite what some folk on here think. If players make elementary mistakes it doesn't matter what the system is.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 19:15

We have the most tactically naive manager in the league. Plenty more days like today.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 19:20

I don't think it was a mistake to change the system, I think it was a mistake to bring on Hyppolyte.
If you brought on Higginbotham you could have him linking up with Williamson which really seems to get the best out of both of them, then the two brothers on the other side.
Hyppo came on and immediately just started getting in a barmy with Geggan.

We'll never know how it would've ended up but I was fairly happy he changed the system early because it clearly wasn't working, it was the players who let us down, those that had played so well against Hearts evidently weren't focused and had underestimated Ayr, they then started lashing out and getting frustrated as the game slipped away.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: king lad  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 19:24

To be fair I think individuals were to blame more than AJ, when you have Durnan and Williamson making mistakes like today it doesn't matter what formation we were playing. Shankland wasn't challenged for the majority of the game. Sometimes you need to clear guys like that out to give them something to think about
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 19:24

I thought Hippo had a decent game, especially in the second half when he played down the right.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 19:28

I wonder if any of the three out of Ashcroft, Devine and Durnan have ever played im a back three setup before.

They were all over the shop, didn't know who to pick up and Durnan in partucular looked lost in there. He isn't "slow" as such but the lack of anticipation / reading the game at times today was frightening.

Anyone who thinks we are stronger this season compared to last is way off the mark IMO. Clark and Morris are huge, huge losses.

---------------------------------------------------------------


"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 19:31

Wasn't at the game so just a question to those who were there, but would it not have been better making the formation change at half time rather than so close to?

Post Edited (Sat 25 Aug 19:32)
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 19:50

I don't think the two goals we lost between making the sub and half-time were due to the change in formation.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: smithy  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 20:00

If we decide to play a 442 at back rather than a 532 I would prefer Ashcroft and Devine as the pair and I have said before I thought Durnan was the weakest link in Dundee Utd defence last season an never rated him but am willing to give him a chance as playing in a different system different manager might just bring out the better player in him..... but still looking out for this and hopefully see a better player.....
But it also seems the whole team never got going at all today..... we need to start winning games if we won’t to be up there challenging

smithy
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: The Boss  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 20:12

Have to agree with Tafka. Clark and Morris are a miss. Clark is the biggest one for me. We haven’t replaced him. We’ve brought in a striker who isn’t proven at this level along with a winger that we’re trying to force into a striker. It’s a recipe for disaster.

What’s worse is the constant punting long balls to our forwards. It doesn’t work! I seen that result coming today after that horror show against Ross County. I’m sure there will be more to come.

I like black and white (dreaming of black and white)
You like black and white
Run run away
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: 1981par  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 20:15

Clark a miss. Don’t get me started. Why we changed to a back 4 I will never know. For people who think it was the right decision. We lost 2 goals when AJ did this. We were doing fine before then albeit didn’t create anything.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 20:15

How did the performance against Hearts show up in your crystal ball?
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: The Boss  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 20:20

Well we got beat. Every team raise their game against a bigger side. Christ the Rovers even managed to get a draw in 90 mins against them.

Maybe not so much a crystal ball but this team won’t go up under this manager that’s for sure.

I like black and white (dreaming of black and white)
You like black and white
Run run away
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 20:59

"I don't think the two goals we lost between making the sub and half-time were due to the change in formation."

Not so sure - the third goal in particular saw Durnan and Ashcroft both on the left hand side which left Shankland unmarked in the middle because there wasn't another centre half there and Williamson hadn't tucked in. For the second there were too many powder puff challenges but nobody took responsibility, which may have been since they were still reorganizing things. Not saying it was a bad move but I don't think it's straightforward saying that it had no effect IMO.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 21:10

I still think we do not have a decent captain who can take a grip of things onfield without necessarily waiting for things to change or for guidance from the touchline.

When we are bad we are terrible. Disjointed, disorganised and dispirited and ultimately many fans disheartened.

I don't like this slipping back to 4-4-2, every time we lose a goal either. The players will end up confused as to how they should be playing.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 21:19

In the Ross co. game we went 3 central defenders to a 4 at the back 2nd half and it was rotten.
Formation isn’t going to matter a jot though if the players are going to lose the ball in silly places, not track runners and generally defend poorly. What’s alarming is in the two losses the opponents didn’t have to produce much to beat us, and Devine’s reaction/Clark’s rant suggests this bunch of players is not yet the tight unit playing for the cause that as fans we’d like to see.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: pacifist  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 21:22

Devine was peed off for being subbed but he wasn't playing well and probably thought he was taken off for that rather tan a tactical change. The defence was brutal for all the goals. We were better the 2nd half but just did not take the chances we had. Higgy has to play, the team are not the same without him, especially Ryan. All in all an awful day.

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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 25 Aug 21:33

Devine gave the ball away and had to commit a foul to stop danger developing, so earning a yellow card early in the game. If we were switching to a back four he was the obvious one to be subbed.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: 68guns  
Date:   Sun 26 Aug 08:57

Really doesn't matter what formation the manager plays if the selections play as badly as those did yesterday.
We were commenting in the warm up that players looked a bit sloppy and that continued through the first half.
When Higgy is not on the park we have too many nice boys. I can't remember any 50-50 tackles we won or any tackles to be honest.
In an ideal world I'd like a proper goalscorer and a hardy centre midfielder added but finances may dictate we have to get better with who we have.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 26 Aug 12:57

Bamba-Daft You are dangerously close to pointing out the Emperor's clothes!!

Of course Jean Yves-Mvoto, Nat Wedderburn and Super Joe are superior to their three replacements.

Yesterday the chickens came home to roost.....

Ayr Utd fielded five former Pars players yesterday and the one whom we miss most is Michael the Moff!!
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: Dalgety_Par  
Date:   Sun 26 Aug 13:03

I think geggan is a miss too... He was a fantastic leader and captain. We have replaced his ability, but in terms of leadership we have nobody like him

It's common knowledge that Lionel Messi kept a photo of Hamish French by his bedside as inspiration every morning!
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Sun 26 Aug 13:07

Who would you say M'voto, Wedderburn and Cardle have been replaced by? M'voto is probably about the same level of player as Durnan and Devine despite being a completely different kind of defender. Wedderburn wasn't good enough for the Championship and isn't exactly turing it on in the league below - Vincent and Craigan are better footballers and Beadling is still to come back in. Cardle had a good start to the season but Louis Longridge has been one of our more consistent performers with Connelly looking decent in his cameos. Interesting that you don't mention Morris and Clark - the two players we miss the most.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 26 Aug 13:12

What about Falky and Hubby? The club has stagnated since these guys left.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sun 26 Aug 13:20

spot on kelty
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 26 Aug 15:55

We should never have let Ziggy Bowie go. Terrible decision

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Sun 26 Aug 18:05

I dont think its about individual players to be honest. Its more how they play as a team. That is what will win this league. Everyone has a bad day. Lessonsto be learned I am sure.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Sun 26 Aug 18:05

I dont think its about individual players to be honest. Its more how they play as a team. That is what will win this league. Everyone has a bad day. Lessonsto be learned I am sure.
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 Re: Devine sub
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Tue 28 Aug 06:28

Da no 1 I think Ziggy left to become a fireman.

matt forsyth
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