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 Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 17:56

Former Rangers players and staff paid through an offshore trust have been told they have weeks to approach the taxman over a settlement or face an even bigger bill, according to the BBC.

Last year the Supreme Court upheld a Court of Session ruling that £47m paid to Rangers employees between 2001-2010 was liable for tax.

Now beneficiaries of the Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs), many of whom were led to believe these were loans that would never have to be repaid, are being warned to seek "urgent advice".

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45322276
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 18:27

That's the first time I've seen it explicitly confirmed that where HMRC is unable to recover the tax from the employer, it may transfer the liability to (former) employees.

I wonder if HMRC have taken the view that BDO will be unable to recover sufficient monies in their ongoing liquidation to meet their demand.

I think the argument was that the amounts transferred to the EBTs were net of tax (so if £60 went in, then the initial amount was assumed to be £100 gross, and Rangers were due £40 in tax). Whether HMRC will seek £40 from the players, or 40% of this £60 is not clear).


Of course, as any monies received were meant to be "loans", the players should be expecting to pay it all back, and only paying a fraction of it should be a bonus. However, I expect that most of them will have spent it all, and there could be some bankruptcies.
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 18:44

Quote:

McCaig`s Tower, Mon 27 Aug 18:27

That's the first time I've seen it explicitly confirmed that where HMRC is unable to recover the tax from the employer, it may transfer the liability to (former) employees.

I wonder if HMRC have taken the view that BDO will be unable to recover sufficient monies in their ongoing liquidation to meet their demand.

I think the argument was that the amounts transferred to the EBTs were net of tax (so if £60 went in, then the initial amount was assumed to be £100 gross, and Rangers were due £40 in tax). Whether HMRC will seek £40 from the players, or 40% of this £60 is not clear).


Of course, as any monies received were meant to be "loans", the players should be expecting to pay it all back, and only paying a fraction of it should be a bonus. However, I expect that most of them will have spent it all, and there could be some bankruptcies.


If they were meant to be loans means that the administrator, creditor or tax man have an instant right to claim repayment

DunfyDave
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 19:22

But, but, but...... Billy Dodds swears Rangers told him it was all legit and above board and he did nothing wrong. He may not be aware that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

It's hard to disagree with any part of McCaig's analysis above. The Inland Revenue will want to go after these players because they may be only the tip of a gigantic iceberg and they may stand to net £millions in subsequent prosecutions.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 19:37

Barry Ferguson saw this coming declared himself bankrupt last year

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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 19:37

<<If they were meant to be loans means that the administrator, creditor or tax man have an instant right to claim repayment>>

that's what i always thought and wondered why it was never part of the discussion during the administration itself
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 19:41

I can see a lot of houses and possessions being sold over the next few weeks to partners and family of these players.

Arrestment of future and current earnings is also likely. Alex Macleish and Barry Ferguson (already beed made bankrupt) named as benefactors too.

I wonder in turn if these ex-employees could launch personal claims against David Murray?
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 20:27

And after that they should have the medals and titles taken off them too. They cheated to get them
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 20:37

Did you see the amount that Murray got?

He must've been drawing some salary.
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: LiviPar  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 20:43

I would rather they went for starbucks, amazon etc. Far more money involved.

Post Edited (Mon 27 Aug 20:43)
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 21:00

Shouldnt be either/or.
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 21:56

Quote:

LiviPar, Mon 27 Aug 20:43

I would rather they went for starbucks, amazon etc. Far more money involved.

Post Edited (Mon 27 Aug 20:43)


I don’t think they’ve broken any laws (yet). Rangers did. That’s why HMRC are going after what they’re owed.
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 22:13

No sympathy for any of them. They must have known what they were doing was dubious and let their greed get the better of them.
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: parbucks  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 23:21

EBT’s were legitimate tax avoidance schemes and approved by HMRC if properly constituted and declared. One key aspect was that they should be discretionary on the part of the employer.
Rangers exploited this but as far as I understand , in some instances, the EBT’s were contractual which rendered the “loan” aspect invalid. As a result no tax or NI contributions were paid on that remuneration.
HMRC challenged the validity of the Rangers scheme successfully.

As a result of this case ALL EBT’s were declared invalid retrospectively by HMRC late last year even though they had been legally constituted and declared over a number of years to HMRC without any problem.
For those who did abide by the rules approved by HMRC at the time the consequences are considerable.
One Tax expert has described HMRC’s behaviour as like someone being photographed doing 38mph in a 40mph limit 10 years ago and now being charged for speeding as the limit has now been changed to 30 mph.

The Rangers case has had a lot of unintended consequences.
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: DRFC_no1  
Date:   Mon 27 Aug 23:54

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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Tue 28 Aug 07:19

Amazon's low profits in the UK are not down to expansion. It's due to where the turnover is accounted for i.e. Luxembourg

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If I was in World War Two they'd call me spitfire
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 28 Aug 08:55

Correct DA and through the Irish republic.

Starbucks tend to buy up properties for future investment or just to stop competitors buying/leasing properties close by this reduces actually profit but they sit on a huge property portfolio worth millions.
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Tue 28 Aug 10:12

Buying property doesn't reduce profit as it's the purchase of a fixed asset.

Money spent on renting does reduce profit though. I've no knowledge of Starbucks but I guess they could buy property via a holding company in a lowly taxed country and rent it to their UK arm.

I don't really have a big issue with a business using the laws in place. It's up to the law makers to stop it if it is costing the country money. The flip side is, however, that these companies employ thousands of people, employer NI and employee NI is paid - as is income tax if they're over the threshold. It's a big call to try and hammer them for corporation tax, knowing that this could lead to shops closing down and people losing jobs. My main issue with the likes of Amazon is the reported working conditions. If the stories are correct, it is shameful that a business earning billions treats their staff so appallingly.

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If I was in World War Two they'd call me spitfire
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: DRFC_no1  
Date:   Tue 28 Aug 10:19

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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Tue 28 Aug 11:24

Not sure there's much in this story if I'm being honest. Just seems like a speculative letter from a third party trying to scare people into settling. There's nothing in the article which confirms HMRC are pursuing EBT beneficiaries. It's all 'could' and 'may well do'

==================================
"However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light." - Stanley Kubrick
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: parbucks  
Date:   Tue 28 Aug 12:15

HMRC have already published a timetable for EBT beneficiaries to come forward and agree a settlement with them on terms more beneficial than if they don’t do so voluntarily and penalties will be added.

Also the Trustee companies who promoted these schemes will also face penalties if they do not disclose details of these schemes and the beneficiaries to HMRC.

If the companies using these schemes for employees have been dissolved then they will pursue the individual beneficiaries directly.

This issue is not going away.
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Tue 28 Aug 12:54

Good bbc story on the week of the old firm match - BBC states received a copy of the letter at the start of the month, but have waited till the week of the match to highlight the issue. I am sure there will be nothing, its a idle threat from HMRC in the hope of getting some cash in. I cant see them dragging ex players into court, when the same has happened in the EPL and other big multi national firms without the same scrutiny
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Tue 28 Aug 20:09

Do they need to get players into court. My employers messed up my tax last year meaning that I underpaid. Absolutely not my fault. Hmrc wrote to me to inform and told me they’re taking it back from my earnings next year. I’ve underpaid tax and they take it back. It doesn’t matter who’s fault it was.

==================================
"However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light." - Stanley Kubrick
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Tue 28 Aug 20:39

Yes, but what if a player owes £500k and is no longer earning anywhere near £500k - or is no longer earning in the UK?

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If I was in World War Two they'd call me spitfire
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: parbucks  
Date:   Tue 28 Aug 21:15

Then HMRC will send them a nice bill with instructions on how to pay.

If they don’t agree then they could end up in court with a potentially bigger bill and legal costs.

You cannot win on this one as the principle has been through the courts several times.

The key date for this is April 2019 for those involved if they want to reach an amicable settlement.
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Tue 28 Aug 22:37

Parbucks is right.

If those who owe money don't pay and court action is necessary, HMRC will choose a straightforward case that they are sure to win, pour encourager les autres.

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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Wed 29 Aug 07:58

Ireland have been ordered by the EU to claim €13b in tax from Apple and Luxembourg €250m from Amazon.
Skullduggery sweetheart deals to undercut your fellow members, who would have thunk it...
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 Re: Rangers players chased on EBTs
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 29 Aug 13:10

Quote:

pars_andy, Tue 28 Aug 20:09

Do they need to get players into court. My employers messed up my tax last year meaning that I underpaid. Absolutely not my fault. Hmrc wrote to me to inform and told me they’re taking it back from my earnings next year. I’ve underpaid tax and they take it back. It doesn’t matter who’s fault it was.


Been there and done it, Andy. Fife Council said they'd given HMRC all the information needed for them to calculate the correct tax code. HMRC refused my request for them to waive the underpayment, which I didn't dispute and informed me it was incumbent on me to ensure that I was paying the correct tax each year.

In other words, gtf ya wee rasper, you're paying it!



Not your average Sunday League player.
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