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 Attendance
Topic Originator: 1981par  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 00:55

Clear to see attendance was down quite considerably tonight. I understand it’s a Friday night game and on TV.

BBC Alba said the attendance was 2896 but Pars attendance 4740. Was there really 2000 season ticket holders not there and if so why?
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: DBA  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 01:15

They were all there. Official attendance said so.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Sierra Nevada  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 01:20

I wasn't there due to a family event.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: General Zod  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 07:42

There was never close to 5000 there. Utter fibs.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: AlfonzoBonzo  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 07:49

It’s pretty annoying that the official attendance is not the actual attendance.
We could give away 10,000 season tickets and have only one of them turn up and the attendance would be stated as 10,000

Show us yer....
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 08:07

Quote:

AlfonzoBonzo, Sat 29 Sep 07:49

It’s pretty annoying that the official attendance is not the actual attendance.
We could give away 10,000 season tickets and have only one of them turn up and the attendance would be stated as 10,000


Same as nearly every other club, Dundee Utd & F*alkirk in particular doing it for years. Been 60 thousand at Parkhead nearly every league game....not so.

Argument is the seats sold so should be counted
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 08:30

I wonder how BBC came up with the 2896 (?) figure ?

How many season ticket holders are there ?

Something doesn’t add up, literally.

That aside, the attendance proves punters’ reluctance to part with £18 for a Friday evening game on terrestrial TV.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 08:47

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sat 29 Sep 08:30

That aside, the attendance proves punters’ reluctance to part with £18 for a Friday evening game on terrestrial TV.


Great viewing figures though, over 50 million.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: DRFC_no1  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 09:56

Embarrassing continuing to declare season ticket holders as in attendance. Anyone watching that on TV could tell there was no more than 3,000 there so why try to declare it?

Attendance means people actually in the ground at the game, not the amount of people that have bought tickets. Also how many of those purchased STs were freebies?
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 10:44

Quote:

DRFC_no1, Sat 29 Sep 09:56

Embarrassing continuing to declare season ticket holders as in attendance. Anyone watching that on TV could tell there was no more than 3,000 there so why try to declare it?

Attendance means people actually in the ground at the game, not the amount of people that have bought tickets. Also how many of those purchased STs were freebies?


I think paid for seats should be included in attendance for financial reasons even if they dont show up.

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 11:29

What a mess some of you get in about something that's been explained hundreds of times.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 11:59

"Great viewing figures though, over 50 million."

Aye, I bet the pubs in North Uist were empty as punters stayed home to watch Pars v PT.

"What a mess some of you get in about something that's been explained hundreds of times."

So, what is the explanation for BBC stating a precise much lower figure than the club ?

Going by the previous wisdom we "must" have 1844 season ticket holders ?



Post Edited (Sat 29 Sep 12:00)
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 12:03

The announcement always says that the "official" attendance is ... We know that the figure doesn't equate to how many are at the game.
I'd prefer to know how many were actually there as, I think, do most people. IMHO they'd be better not even announcing it if its not the actual attendance.
It doesn't spoil my weekend though, as seems to be the case with some on here.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: The Roy Barry Fan Club  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 12:05

Just repeating what Ross McArthur has explained a number of times at Supporters' Council meetings:

1. The figures are the paid for season ticket holders plus those paying on the night.

2. The Club somewhat reluctantly (my words not his) changed to this basis of accounting from merely counting those who were actually in the ground because almost all of our competitors were doing this. My impression was that for example Falkirk were giving out larger crowds than us -- even though this was not the case. It was therefore felt that a like for like approach was needed.

3. Why the SPFL allow two different accounting policies defeats me (again those are my words!)

4. No idea where the BBC figure came from. I believe everything the BBC says on football naturally.

5. I'm old fashioned and would much prefer the figures to be those actually in the ground. However as long as the Old Firm want to do it a different way then I doubt that that will be the sole SPFL backed approach....



Post Edited (Sat 29 Sep 12:55)
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 12:21

4. No idea where the BBC figure came from. I believe everything the BBC says on football naturally.


The club will know the figure exactly of how many people are in the ground, even just for emergencies. Presumably they told this to the BBC.
Although it not hard to guess, which is why I put in a prediction of 2600 odd on the guess the attendance thread, as I was hedging my bets that the might tell the truth like in the Inverness game last year.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 13:50

How does the VAT man know how much tax they will collect from the game. The DAFC figure or the BBC figure. Personally I hope the lower amount but!

matt forsyth
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 14:27

Quote:

eastendalloapar, Sat 29 Sep 13:50

How does the VAT man know how much tax they will collect from the game. The DAFC figure or the BBC figure. Personally I hope the lower amount but!


Come on....the books will reflect the actual cash through the doors. It will be split for accounting purposes. It can clearly be shown total announced less season tickets = paid over counter.

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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 14:41

Quote:

eastendalloapar, Sat 29 Sep 13:50

How does the VAT man know how much tax they will collect from the game. The DAFC figure or the BBC figure. Personally I hope the lower amount but!


Yeah I can see HMRC using the internet for crowd figures

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 14:44

Bit like Parkhead where 10,000 are dressed up as plastic seats.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 16:27

It's just a piece of nonsense as far as I am concerned.

The attendance should be the amount inside the ground and not the pretend figure.

But it's not going to change, so we will keep pretending.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 16:40

We do it because everyone else does it. Simples.

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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 16:56

Quote:

PARrot, Sat 29 Sep 16:40

We do it because everyone else does it. Simples.


Why do people add an 's' at the end of 'simple' ?

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: dover par  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 17:07

All to do with advertising potential, when clubs are selling advertising space they maximise their audience thus hopefully getting more money selling their advertising space in the ground etc.

"Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing."
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 17:19

"Why do people add an 's' at the end of 'simple' ?"

A successful ad campaign in the UK for insurance comparison site Compare the Market.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: 1981par  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 17:27

4800 does sound good on a Friday night
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 18:25

I take it when average home attendances over a season are calculated, that the pretend figure is also used.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: steaua  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 18:37

And the Beer Festival was on in the Glen.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 18:47

If I read what some on here are saying, are they saying that when someone buys a season ticket if they don't go to the match, their payment is discarded. It has to be shown somewhere over the season or the total figures who have paid are not all included.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 18:47

It's Saturday night mach1. It really isnt that important and its not just us that does it. Relax man!

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 18:54

Hes on the wind up. He has to be.

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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Sat 29 Sep 19:21

I think there is a much bigger picture here. Football attendances along with many other sports is dropping. The game probably needs a complete rethink in how to bring in crowds and regenerate interest. No easy task but Friday night football is not the answer.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Toumba Libre  
Date:   Sun 30 Sep 00:45

Anyone that doesn’t understand why the club announces/publicises the attendance as the do needs their head checked.. I honestly don’t understand how you dress yourself in the morning.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: nick_dafc1  
Date:   Sun 30 Sep 01:43

They should advertise it as tickets sold 4800 and attendance 2800. The whole of Scottish football should be made to follow this
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sun 30 Sep 01:45

Totally relaxed da_no_1.

My head does not need checked Toumba Libre.

And no windup Parrot.

Like many others I find it an absolute nonsense to state that we have bigger attendances than we actually have at a game.

And yes, I hear all the points made and arguments for doing it, but my opinion remains that it is a nonsensical thing to do.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: The Boss  
Date:   Sun 30 Sep 08:00

We’re only talking about this because people aren’t going. It’s nothing to do with Friday night football.

If we had a team and a manager that had us near the top of the league challenging for the title. We would have had a big crowd on Friday.

Instead we have a huge squad of players with a manger out his depth. It’s going to be mid table. You can’t blame fans for not turning up. They are sick of it.

I like black and white (dreaming of black and white)
You like black and white
Run run away
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: 1981par  
Date:   Sun 30 Sep 08:04

Good point the boss. 2800 is poor attendance. Should have been around 500 partick fans as well
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Sun 30 Sep 09:44

Quote:

AdamAntsParsStripe, Sat 29 Sep 16:56

Quote:

PARrot, Sat 29 Sep 16:40

We do it because everyone else does it. Simples.


Why do people add an 's' at the end of 'simple' ?


Because we are all meerkats. Simples

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Sun 30 Sep 09:48

I don't know the inside and outside of health and safety legislation but If the club
have for example 3500 season tickets sold then surely there must be enough security/police deployed to deal with numbers over this figure.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 30 Sep 13:41

In our last season in the top tier our average League Gate was 4799.That was explained by the huge travelling supports of the big clubs skewing the Gates.

Last season, in the second tier, the average Gate was 5312.That was 513 or 11% more.

That is due to many factors ,though one cannot over estimate the impact of the Schools Engagement Programme and the numbers of kids being attracted from DEX.A decade from now there will be another 13,000 living in the Dunfermline Western Expansion so another target audience.

The way to look at Friday was that we have 3408 Seasons so, if the Official Atendance was 4740 ,one can infer 1332 paid at the turnstiles.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 30 Sep 14:24

Quote:

The Boss, Sun 30 Sep 08:00

We’re only talking about this because people aren’t going. It’s nothing to do with Friday night football.

If we had a team and a manager that had us near the top of the league challenging for the title. We would have had a big crowd on Friday.

Instead we have a huge squad of players with a manger out his depth. It’s going to be mid table. You can’t blame fans for not turning up. They are sick of it.


You have a funny idea of what a fan is.
If your theory is correct we will see it reflected in the next Saturday home game. I don't think it is.



Post Edited (Sun 30 Sep 14:25)
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Toumba Libre  
Date:   Sun 30 Sep 21:34

Quote:

mach1, Sun 30 Sep 01:45

Totally relaxed da_no_1.

My head does not need checked Toumba Libre.

And no windup Parrot.

Like many others I find it an absolute nonsense to state that we have bigger attendances than we actually have at a game.

And yes, I hear all the points made and arguments for doing it, but my opinion remains that it is a nonsensical thing to do.


Except that it’s not “nonsensical” at all and that’s the point. It makes perfect sense to announce them as we do. Commercially speaking, it would be moronic not to.
The fact that grown men get so upset over it is pretty worrying.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sun 30 Sep 22:01

IMO it is nonsensical but don't be worried, I am not upset, merely giving an opinion on something that was raised by the OP.

I wouldn't like us to be pretending that more fans are going to the games than what really happened.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 30 Sep 22:25

Wouldn't it also be pretending if the crowd announced for a match was fewer than the number of fans who had paid to attend it? One basis is just as valid as the other surely?
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: WheelKing99  
Date:   Sun 30 Sep 23:03

It’s an absolute joke but it happens everywhere. Parkhead is ‘full’ to capacity every week but when you see the footage a lot of Celtic fans are dressed up like green plastic seats.

Form is temporary, Class is permanent
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Mon 1 Oct 07:11

Not to me wee eck.
I prefer to know what the actual crowd size at a game is.

Not just at East End, but at any game.

But some others feel differently, so be it.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Mon 1 Oct 07:57

Every club has a core of loyal supporters. The question is how do you attract others to EEP. Success on the park will bring in a few but that is short term and depends on results. Longer term the game needs to attract spectators. How you do that is the question. O dont know about anyone else but I work Fridays. For people to finish work and go to a game isn't easy especially if you are away supporters travelling from Glasgow. The sport first and foremost needs to consider the needs of the paying public.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Mon 1 Oct 09:12

Sadly, the biggest consideration these days seems to be the TV companies, which as on Friday partly contributed to the small actual crowd. I know three people who decided to watch the game on TV one a season ticket holder and two occasional fans.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: WheelKing99  
Date:   Mon 1 Oct 10:40

Quote:

mach1, Mon 01 Oct 09:12

Sadly, the biggest consideration these days seems to be the TV companies, which as on Friday partly contributed to the small actual crowd. I know three people who decided to watch the game on TV one a season ticket holder and two occasional fans.


Exactly Mach1. If Dunfermline were on TV every second week we’d be lucky to scrape crowds of 1.5k .

Form is temporary, Class is permanent
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 1 Oct 10:54

"The way to look at Friday was that we have 3408 Seasons so, if the Official Atendance was 4740 ,one can infer 1332 paid at the turnstiles."

So, what happened to the "missing" 1564 punters (2896-1332) based on the BBC's attendance.

None of these figures quoted makes sense.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 1 Oct 11:22

Presumably the 'missing' 1564 are the number of ST holders who did attend the match.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 1 Oct 12:15

You could infer that, but I couldn't possibly comment.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Mon 1 Oct 13:12

My two wee ones are season ticket holders but couldn't go due to it being a night match. I suspect there are quite a few in a similar situation.

The actual attendance is a pretty minor thing to be taking up anyone's thoughts though.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I was in World War Two they'd call me spitfire
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Mon 1 Oct 15:36

The whole game of football is a pretty minor thing in the grand scheme of things though.

Don't think you can prescribe what can be on a forum.

Crowds, managers, players, league positions, transfers, budgets, singing sections, best games, worst games et al.

They're all fair game if people have opinions or thoughts to give voice to.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Mon 1 Oct 15:49

I don't think I can prescribe what's on a forum.

I'm merely passing comment about the well-being of those getting worked up about the tickets sold v actual attendees disparity.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I was in World War Two they'd call me spitfire
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Mon 1 Oct 18:05

Well I wouldn't get too concerned about their well being.

If you mean me, I am anything but worked up, merely passing an opinion on the practice of including all ST sales in stating league attendance figures, just as you are giving your response.

Have a relaxing evening and try not to concern yourself about such trivial matters, S the opinions of others.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Mon 1 Oct 20:12

No idea why you're so rattled about this to be honest.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I was in World War Two they'd call me spitfire
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 07:14


I've said at least twice that I am not rattled, or upset, but simply giving my opinion on it, which you seem to have a need to keep posting about.
But carry on.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: WORST  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 07:31

Topic Originator: mach1 like | nolike
Date: Tue 2 Oct 07:14


I've said at least twice that I am not rattled, or upset, but simply giving my opinion on it, which you seem to have a need to keep posting about.
But carry on.

-----
Awright awright, calm doon min.



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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 08:32

FWIW, I think including the ST holders in the total attendance paints a more positive picture. Not saying I agree or disagree with it, but it's hard to argue with my conclusion unless you're a "half empty" rather than "half full" kind of person.

It's ironic that, in the 60s, some Scottish clubs were plainly "at it", publishing attendances which were well short of the real figures - why we can all speculate.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 16:40

It hardly paints a positive picture where the club publishes an attendance figure which anybody present, or watching on TV, can see is grossly overstating the real number.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 17:09

......unless the reasons for doing so have been stated at least 150 billion times.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Perkins  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 17:50

Comparisons between clubs or with previous eras is now dead
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 17:51

So publishing an overstated figure paints a negative picture, vee? I'm confused.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Perkins  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 18:04

It paints a picture of a club massaging the attendance stats with free tickets given away to people who don't attend.

Clearly some people are finding positives from that while others don't
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 18:22

Quote:

Perkins, Tue 2 Oct 18:04

It paints a picture of a club massaging the attendance stats with free tickets given away to people who don't attend.

Clearly some people are finding positives from that while others don't


Who are those people getting free tickets who don't attend and how many are we talking about, Perkins?

I don't have a problem with the club including ST holders in the figures, since other clubs do the same and we can therefore make a fair comparison. Why should the Pars only report only the numbers passing through the turnstiles if that is no longer the norm. Surely that would show us in a negative light?

Incidentally, I'd prefer if all clubs only reported numbers who do attend each game, but that's not what happens, is it?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 18:49

Quote:

nick_dafc1, Sun 30 Sep 01:43

They should advertise it as tickets sold 4800 and attendance 2800. The whole of Scottish football should be made to follow this


This! Part of the issue is the use of the word "attendance", which infers physical presence when the number is not that at all.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Perkins  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 19:04

"Who are those people getting free tickets who don't attend and how many are we talking about, Perkins?"

I've no idea how many but there is evidently an uptake of the free u12 season tickets for kids who don't often go. I know of a couple.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: WheelKing99  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 19:56

Same folk that were blootering Trump’s fakenews inauguration crowd are they same folk defending this utter sham. A lie is a lie.

Form is temporary, Class is permanent
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 20:21

"So publishing an overstated figure paints a negative picture, vee? I'm confused"

It is when the figure the club announces is clearly nowhere near the real number - and then we discover the attendance quoted by the BBC is less than the number of STs which the club includes

It's embarrasing and farcical - the fact that other clubs do likwise doesn't make it any less so.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: LiviPar  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 20:22

I'm still confused at to why this is even an issue :-/ who cares!!
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 20:28

Somebody who doesn’t care wouldn’t bother posting ?
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 2 Oct 23:13

Much Ado About Nothing.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 07:08

Quote:

Perkins, Tue 2 Oct 19:04

"Who are those people getting free tickets who don't attend and how many are we talking about, Perkins?"

I've no idea how many but there is evidently an uptake of the free u12 season tickets for kids who don't often go. I know of a couple.


I don't think the total number of U-12 STs exceeds 300. The club is trying to address the issue you allude to by allocating some STs to local primary schools. They use these as a reward for good behaviour and general excellence, to take children who are excited at the prospect of attending a live game. For many of them it will be their first game.



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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 07:15

Quote:

veteraneastender, Tue 2 Oct 20:21

"So publishing an overstated figure paints a negative picture, vee? I'm confused"

It is when the figure the club announces is clearly nowhere near the real number - and then we discover the attendance quoted by the BBC is less than the number of STs which the club includes

It's embarrasing and farcical - the fact that other clubs do likwise doesn't make it any less so.


While I agree with your sentiment that no number of wrongs make a right, VEE, I can't agree that it is "embarrassing and farcical" for the Pars to adopt the same approach to calculating attendance figures as other clubs. Would it not be more farcical if different clubs used different methods?

I would suggest that it is incumbent on the SPFL to instruct its member clubs to use a unified system which promotes honesty and transparency.



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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: WORST  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 07:27

Topic Originator: veteraneastender like | nolike
Date: Tue 2 Oct 20:21

"So publishing an overstated figure paints a negative picture, vee? I'm confused"

It is when the figure the club announces is clearly nowhere near the real number - and then we discover the attendance quoted by the BBC is less than the number of STs which the club includes

It's embarrasing and farcical - the fact that other clubs do likwise doesn't make it any less so.

------

Embarrassing for who, VEE?

I'm not embarrassed by this in the slightest, and the fact that the BOD are happy to add the ST figures every game is clearly stating they aren't embarrassed to carry out this, IMO, irrelevant practice. Yet you clearly feel embarrassed by this? Why?



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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 07:58

74 posts and nearly 5000 views would indicate that quite a lot of people want to voice their thoughts on the matter.

As ever, the forum predictably falls into two camps, both of which believe their opinions to be best.

Sound familiar?

Think Brexit, Scottish Independence, Labour vs Tory policies, Messi vs Ronaldo best player debates and so on.

It's good that we don't all think the same.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 09:34

Quote:

mach1, Wed 3 Oct 07:58

74 posts and nearly 5000 views would indicate that quite a lot of people want to voice their thoughts on the matter.

As ever, the forum predictably falls into two camps, both of which believe their opinions to be best.

Sound familiar?

Think Brexit, Scottish Independence, Labour vs Tory policies, Messi vs Ronaldo best player debates and so on.

It's good that we don't all think the same.


Don't want to be pedantic, mach1, but there are probably 3 camps - you forgot about the don't know/don't care camp, which is at least partially responsible for the shambles which is Brexit.



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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 09:54

While some clubs do include non attendee season ticket holders some clubs don't. I guess it all depends on which camp you want Dunfermline Athletic to be in. A club that accurately reports how many people attend a game or a club that falsely boosts that number to possibly make match day advertising more attractive?

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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: WheelKing99  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 10:06

It’s absolutely embarrassing and completely false. Just because every other club does it , doesn’t make it acceptable. I’ve always had an interest in our actual match attendance and now the information is false.

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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 10:08

"I'm not embarrassed by this in the slightest, and the fact that the BOD are happy to add the ST figures every game is clearly stating they aren't embarrassed to carry out this, IMO, irrelevant practice. Yet you clearly feel embarrassed by this? Why?"

Because the club's attendance figure on Friday was ridiculous - according to those numbers the ground was nearly 42% full - that's in the realms of fantasy.

More like the 25% full that the BBC stats would equate to.

Including absentee ST holders is an exercise in creative accounting.



Post Edited (Wed 03 Oct 10:09)
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 10:32

You're right GG.

Too many fence sitters in politics to ever get things done efficiently.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 12:03

Shhh! The advertisers might find out about this and want to negotiate their price down.

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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 12:41

Quote:

WheelKing99, Wed 3 Oct 10:06

It’s absolutely embarrassing and completely false. Just because every other club does it , doesn’t make it acceptable. I’ve always had an interest in our actual match attendance and now the information is false.


So is the figure when TV cameras are present.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 15:19

I take it that the club must have given the true attendance. If correct it must have been the only true information that the BBC have told their viewers. LOL.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 16:17

I'm keen to find about the legions of companies who throw money to advertise at East End Park but with no knowledge of their target market.

The ones who base their entire decision to spend on whether average attendances are over or under 4,000 are of specific interest.

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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 17:32

I personally think that this topic is as valid a point for debate as all the other football-related guff we all love to spraff on about in order to get away from the real world ;)

The real cringe bit in all this for me is when the stadium announcer states the excellent-but-fake "attendance" and people applaud it!

We should set an example... Always state both figures - paid for seats, and the number of people in the stadium (you know, um, the attendance figure).

Post Edited (Wed 03 Oct 17:35)
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 17:54

I think it's more how much it costS to advertise rather than to advertise it not. I'm going to guess it cost more for a pitch side hoarding at East End Park than it does at Recreation Park. To be honest I'm struggling to understand why any club would lie about it's attendance figure. I suspect it's to with some sort of false bravado thing.

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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 18:10

Surely the main thing is that the seats are paid for, whether it is at the gate, season tickets or hospitality.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 18:29

Quote:

Blackandwhiteblood, Wed 3 Oct 18:10

Surely the main thing is that the seats are paid for, whether it is at the gate, season tickets or hospitality.


Many a time over the years, at quiet times or halftime, we've speculated and guessed what the crowd might be. Never once can I remember anyone asking or suggesting what it might be if you include absentee season ticket holders.

It's a number, and a valid one at that, the one they read out, but it's neither the "crowd" nor the "attendance".

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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 18:42

Quote:

parsfan, Wed 3 Oct 18:29

Quote:

Blackandwhiteblood, Wed 3 Oct 18:10

Surely the main thing is that the seats are paid for, whether it is at the gate, season tickets or hospitality.


Many a time over the years, at quiet times or halftime, we've speculated and guessed what the crowd might be. Never once can I remember anyone asking or suggesting what it might be if you include absentee season ticket holders.

It's a number, and a valid one at that, the one they read out, but it's neither the "crowd" nor the "attendance".


Best post on this thread so far.



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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: Perkins  
Date:   Wed 3 Oct 18:53

"I don't think the total number of U-12 STs exceeds 300. The club is trying to address the issue you allude to by allocating some STs to local primary schools"


Doesn't giving even more free tickets away just increase the difference between the real attendance and the reported number?
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 4 Oct 00:14

It's a number, and a valid one at that, the one they read out, but it's neither the "crowd" nor the "attendance".

A number that is not the crowd or the attendance, and is valid ?

So, what exactlty is it ?
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 4 Oct 06:06

Topic Originator: veteraneastender like | nolike
Date: Thu 4 Oct 00:14

It's a number, and a valid one at that, the one they read out, but it's neither the "crowd" nor the "attendance".

A number that is not the crowd or the attendance, and is valid ?

So, what exactlty is it ?

It's falling into line with everyone else. There's a logic of sorts, but like most folk on this thread, I preferred the old system.

Topic Originator: Perkins like | nolike
Date: Wed 3 Oct 18:53

"I don't think the total number of U-12 STs exceeds 300. The club is trying to address the issue you allude to by allocating some STs to local primary schools"

Doesn't giving even more free tickets away just increase the difference between the real attendance and the reported number?

No, because the club no longer gives out comp single game tickets to kids who participate in the Schools Engagement Programme, precisely because the uptake was very low. Giving each school a few STs which they can use at every home game for different (selected) pupils allows the schools to set up a reward scheme for e.g. good work or behaviour.

Feedback from schools suggests they're well pleased with it.



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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Thu 4 Oct 09:25

I would allow all under 12s free, with proof of age, but only count them if they 'click' through the turnstiles.
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: sonofpetrie  
Date:   Thu 4 Oct 10:00

Quote:

da_no_1, Tue 2 Oct 17:09

......unless the reasons for doing so have been stated at least 150 billion times.


That doesn't seem like an accurate statistic 😆

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary"
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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 4 Oct 10:10

I've told him a million times to stop exaggerating 😉



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 Re: Attendance
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Thu 4 Oct 13:11

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 4 Oct 00:14

It's a number, and a valid one at that, the one they read out, but it's neither the "crowd" nor the "attendance".

A number that is not the crowd or the attendance, and is valid ?

So, what exactlty is it ?


It's a number of things:
- it's a measure of a couple of things to do with the match day experience, but without the other numbers that would put it in context.
- it could be used for capacity planning
- some on here apparently find it useful for working out club finances
- it's a bigger number than would otherwise be given if we weren't kidding ourselves on
- it gives people who applaud the crowd for being there the chance to also applaud the absentee season ticket holders
- it' allows us to compare our meaningless stat with other clubs' meaningless stats.

That said, you'd be better asking the folk to who support it.

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