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 The Morning After......
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 08:11

I rarely post on dotnet immediately after a poor result, reasoning that it's usually better to sleep on it and analyse things more rationally, after the initial disappointment has had a chance to die down. Only it hasn't. Looking through the various threads this morning, I was struck by how few posts were made by really angry fans. It's almost as if there's an acceptance of what has so far been a very disappointing season, especially at home games, which are the ones more of us attend.

It's difficult to escape the fact that we lost at home to the Championship's bottom team, one we comfortably beat on their own patch, just a few weeks ago. That we outplayed them for much of the game, is scant consolation. Results are recorded for posterity. The 3 pts we lost yesterday could prove crucial, both for us and our opponents.

We failed to capitalise in the early stages of the game, when Falkirk showed why they are at the foot of the table. Andy Ryan's horrible miss, when he tried a deliberate sidefoot when he should have put his laces through the ball, smacks of a striker lacking in confidence. Had that gone in, we might have gone on to win even more easily than we did in Grangemouth. But it didn't.

Clearly, things need to improve. Pre-season expectations are not being met. The players and the management team will be well aware that results and performances have not been good enough. Their effort and application is not in question. There have certainly been games where we've been unlucky, but we can't hide behind that every week. The manager now has two weeks to work with his squad and hopefully iron out the problems which have see us drop so many points in games we might have expected to win. We need to get back on track and soon.

Dingwall could hardly be a tougher place to start, but start we must.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: 1981par  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 08:17

Good post GG. I can now even see your optimism is now starting to wear thin.

At end of day. We didn’t win. Stats mean nothing.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: FergPar  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 08:34

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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: WORST  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 08:38

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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 08:49

Higgy coming back in gave us a much more familiar attack minded setup and we had enough shots on target to win 3 games.
The substitutions were baffling though as we looked much less likely to score afterwards.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 08:57

I'm done until there is change...saturdays off are precious and I want to enjoy them...simple.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 09:04

We are losing fans after every game like that one. Little by little it's having an impact.

It was also slightly worrying that our very much appreciated lifeline membership has dropped from a peak of 1000 to the 900 which was announced.

It looks to me like we will be in this division for a long time.

Please show me otherwise Dunfermline and by that I mean the players, the management and the BOD.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: Angus_W  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 09:04

Can't agree WORST........

So are you okay if we get relegated as long as we give a good account of ourselves?

That is where we are heading at present. Falkirk will turn the corner & Alloa are no pushover.

I don't want to see the manager go but this needs sorted out pronto!

Three strikers with long distinguished careers on the management team & our forward line is impotent.

OP...

People getting fed up, loosing interest ......... 2 goals in 7 games and 10 conceded at EEP. Explains a lot.

🔩 ya 🚀
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: GG4  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 09:32

I too woke up utterly amazed AJ is still manager.

Like Rasta, im done as well until changes happen. Enough is enough.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 09:35

Don’t think we played that well yesterday either, I guess as well as lumping the ball up 2 midgets will allow anyway.

They are terrible, as results have shown. A half decent team would have taken 3 points off them.

We had more space in areas yesterday then we’ll get against any other team in this league and couldn’t take advantage.

Just sitting here drenched in my own negativity!
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: WORST  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 09:41

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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 09:49

Its about time the board grew some backbone because they are as much to blame for this situation as the management but i have little faith in them to do the right thing and make the big decisions and their decision to give that clown a 2 year contract will bite us in the ass and it is clear to see that he has lost the dressing room as the team just aren't showing any fight apart from Higgy and Thomson nobody else did anything of note yesterday
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: Clarko  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 10:04

"The manager now has two weeks to work with his squad ..."

I think the majority of us sincerely hope that he does not.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: rossmcno1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 10:09

These two weeks should absolutely be used to cut the cords with Johnston and Clark and source then employ replacements.

He’s had plenty opportunities to turn this around and get results. Far too often already it has been same story.

A poster recently put up Stephen Kenny’s record in his championship season against AJs this season. A shocking stat, but one that highlights to me how far back we have gone this season.

Time for change, now. Board must act or they will become complicit in writing off an entire season due to their inactivity.



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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: dover par  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 10:13

Being beat at home by the worst team in Britain is bad enough but to that scum makes it ten times worse. People go on about Ryan’s miss etc but don’t forget they hit the bar with our keeper rooted to the spot. It’s gone beyond another Sunday reflection of ifs and buts,time for change is long overdue and I like many are tired of the excuses.
The International break is the perfect time for our board to stand up and be counted...so far the silence is deafening.

"Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing."
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: parsloyal98  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 10:14

Slept on it, mind hasn’t changed, get him tae f**k

We love Dunfermline We do!
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 10:25

The manager has failed to change the opinion i formed of him over a year ago. Maybe it’s even more than that?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:06

For me the point where I would want to see a change of any manager not just AJ is:

1. We can't win the league and take the automatic promotion spot.

For me this was always going to be a bit of a challenge. There's teams with bigger budgets and more settled squads. That being said I never thought we'd be completely out of the hunt at this stage and even with my optimistic pants on, I can't see us making a genuine title challenge from here.

2. There is no genuine chance of making the play offs to challenge for promotion through the back up route.

We saw last year that you can't jump the gun on this point but we're six points behind 4th and 9 behind 3rd. It's a big ask to think that Ross County and United will slip up enough for us to catch them even if we can go on a run and Ayr are looking as though they can keep their run going too.

We could be looking at trying to keep in touch with ICT in 4th. 6 points is not insurmountable but we can't really afford to be much further behind as we're not the only team eyeing 4th.

3. We're genuinely in a relegation battle.

As much as 6 points isn't insurmountable looking upwards, it's also not a huge safety net looking down the way. We're not in a relegation battle yet but we're unfortunately not too many bad results (possibly as little as 2) away from being in a relegation battle.

4. A decent manager has to be available.

This one is pretty obvious. Change for change's sake would be a mistake. If we're going to pull the trigger we have to make sure there's a better man coming in.

I wouldn't want to put points targets on what AJ has to achieve as we won't know what other results are going to be but if we hit the point where 1 & 2 are no longer attainable (1 appears to be gone already) or point 3 is a reality then I think it would be time to thank AJ for his efforts in bringing us back to this division and then see if someone else can take us forward.

If we are going to make a change I'd also like to see a new manager in place before the next transfer window as it would give the new guy a chance to bring his own players in.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that and we can pick up points going forward but there's no doubt we're only a few bad results off a really precarious position. While I've never thought we had an automatic right to challenge for promotion, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the club to be well clear of a relegation battle.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:12

^^^ What an excellent, rational, well balanced post. ^^^

I've told you before, lpf - you're far too sensible for dotnet. :-)



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: FergPar  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:19

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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: parsfan97  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:28

Anyone that thinks Falkirk played well yesterday would be best going to specsavers, they were absolutely rotten and it was so obvious for about 10 minutes that the goal was coming for them, the amount of space they were getting in midfield was ridiculous, so if most fans can see it why can’t AJ? We clearly needed to change it at 0-0 then yet again he waits too late, but then when he does make a sub of course it’s the wrong ones yet again. We made Falkirk look like a good team 2nd half when they are probably the worst team in Britain this season
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: rossmcno1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:30

What is lauded as sense by some is folly to others.

The financial and emotive cost of keeping a manager who is clearly not achieving is potentially much greater than making the change. We’ve just been beaten by statistically the worst team in professional football in the UK in their division. Statistically the worst Falkirk team we have faced in decades.

Say we hang onto AJ until it’s mathematically impossible to go up. At what cost in attendance, sales of hospitality, lifeline sales? Are people being blinded and deafened to what’s going on right in front of them? Is it on purpose?

Come on everyone, the lack of ambition here is now starting to irk.

A change is a gamble, sticking with what we have is bigger risk.



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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:35

You're automatically assuming a new manager would bring improvement. We could easily change manager and go down.

I'm also not saying it has to be mathematically impossible for us to go up just a bit more reasonable assessment than what we saw last year.

We might only be two losses away from being in a relegation battle at which point I also don't think AJ could complain if he's replaced.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: 1981par  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:39

Neilson at Dundee Utd has clearly worked. New manager can work.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:39

And it's not a lack of ambition. Finishing 4th and going up in the play offs even if we sneak into 4th is a successful season.

If we sneak into 4th and then absolutely bomb in the playoffs then I think the board would still have a decision to make.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: rossmcno1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:39

Did you deliberately not read my last sentence?

I accept it’s a gamble, but by Christ looking at what is going on right now, it’s a calculated one!



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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: parsfan97  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:41

Dundee United showed that clearly the players were there, just needed organised from a manager who has a football brain, something AJ is clearly lacking
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:41

Quote:

1981par, Sun 11 Nov 11:39

Neilson at Dundee Utd has clearly worked. New manager can work.


It can which is why I put point 4 in my post above. I actually wouldn't want any former pars players mentioned on the forum so far as I don't think they are experienced enough to take us forward.

I loved them all as players but I'm not sure that's enough of a qualification to take the job here.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:44

Quote:

rossmcno1, Sun 11 Nov 11:39

Did you deliberately not read my last sentence?

I accept it’s a gamble, but by Christ looking at what is going on right now, it’s a calculated one!


Sorry I probably didn't give full credence to your last sentence but for me we have to actually let the manager fail before he's replaced. He's not failed yet but there's no doubt he's not far off it.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: rossmcno1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:45

londonparsfan wrote:

>
Quote:

rossmcno1, Sun 11 Nov 11:39
>
> Did you deliberately not read my last sentence?
>
> I accept it’s a gamble, but by Christ looking at what is
> going on right now, it’s a calculated one!

>
> Sorry I probably didn't give full credence to your last
> sentence but for me we have to actually let the manager fail
> before he's replaced. He's not failed yet but there's no doubt
> he's not far off it.

Fair enough pal.

We’ll agree to disagree, I think he has failed this season, appreciate not to the finality of your objectives, but I don’t think we can wait that long.



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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:49

Don't get me wrong mate I do thing we're under achieving and I fully get folks frustration.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:52

Quote:

GG Riva, Sun 11 Nov 11:12

^^^ What an excellent, rational, well balanced post. ^^^

I've told you before, lpf - you're far too sensible for dotnet. :-)


Oh and thanks again GG!
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: parbucks  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:55

I made one of my infrequent visits nowadays to Dunfermline last week for a family funeral.

I met three relatives who have been season ticket holders at EEP for many years. Each one of them expressed their despair at the efforts of the current management team and although still ST holders seldom attend matches now.
There must be hundreds more like them.

The criticisms of AJ have been consistent for over a year now: poor tactical awareness, players out of position, poor and untimely substitutions, no plan B when things are not working etc.

Einstein’s definition of madness was “ to continue to do the same things over and over again and expect a different result”.

It’s time for change.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:55

Worst, you thought Williamson gave a good account of himself?

You know we’re not a pub team right?

Just sitting here drenched in my own negativity!
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: 1981par  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 11:57

Ryan had an awful game. I feel sorry for him. He’s great going forward but can’t defend. It’s a catch 22 for the manager.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 12:04

"said it on another thread its the international break, no game next weekend so its a perfect time to make the change but I doubt the board will do it"

my opinion hasn't changed.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 12:48

What parbucks said about ST holders is clear when you compare the announced crowd size, which includes all ST holders with what you see at the ground.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: purekozma  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 12:48

I still see a lack of home gameplan, the creativity has increased with Higgy back but it is a bit of a free for all at times with large gaps between back,middle,front and AJ's historic reading of the game is shocking over 90mins.

When Falkirk's good period started before their goal either Ray's new fitness plan started to show results and Bawbag winning all challenges but we could see a few players being brushed off the ball or making more misjudgements that is the time to make changes and keep the legs fresh. It didn't help decisions with hippo and higgy picking up silly cards from a silly ref, I was half expecting a 2nd half red for to swing the game anyway.

Someone mentioned partnerships, only higgy and williamson have developed an understanding although Higgy is the influence, Joe Thomson and Martin and Aiden are all tidy players too. Could we not use Muirhead's physical presence to lay off to Faz in a deeper position, we need some sort of upfront partnership to develop.

And finally call out to the team to quit the powderpuff shots effing rattle the ball between the posts guys!
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: purekozma  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 12:56

Must mention our other wingback Jackson, obvious he still has no consistant partnership to help him get more forward on the left to help balance the sea-saw left right game attacks. Corners and Freekicks I want a shot a those myself
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 13:27

Quote:

Clarko, Sun 11 Nov 10:04

"The manager now has two weeks to work with his squad ..."

I think the majority of us sincerely hope that he does not.


I absolutely understand your anger and frustration at the present situation and respect your opinion, but I was adopting a variation of the "innocent until proven guilty " rule.

That's to say that I'll presume AJ will continue as Pars manager until I hear differently from our Chairman.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 13:37

Don't think we'll here anything different from the Chairman.

His financial hands are tied sadly.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 13:44

''Don't think we'll here anything different from the Chairman.

His financial hands are tied sadly.''

I wouldn't bet my house on that, mach1. I'd be most surprised if the management team had clause free contracts. Ross is a very astute man.

Unless you're privy to some inside info? I was talking to a man who told me his wife was Italian, before the game, yesterday. Wasn't you, was it? :-)



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 13:49

No. My wife is Scottish, her mother was Italian.

Her family on that side were all from Frosinone.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 13:56

''No. My wife is Scottish, her mother was Italian.

Her family on that side were all from Frosinone.''

Ah right. Cheers. The old brain gets confused from time to time. :-(

She was probably from NEAR Frosinone as we are from Edinburgh. I think there's quite a wee colony of Italians from near the town of Cassino. Frosinone is the capoluogo (regional capital.)



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 14:08

Not quite. They were mostly from Montattico, near to another village Mortale, renamed Montforte as most of the Forte family were from there.

The registration town is Casalattico and the market town is Attina. All in the province of Frosinone which is in the region of Lazio.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: JimMcDAFC  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 14:41

The time has come i think to give up on Williamson as a fullback. I would give him a shot on the right wing and Martin back at right back moving Craigan into midfield.For those wanting Muirhead through the middle for his height well I watched him against Dundee reserves at Kelty and he was playing left side up front and was taking the corners such was the faith they had in his heading ability. If Keena is not fit i would give a striking role to Lewis McCann for next match. I wonder what the next match would be like if we also decided to park the bus at home like some of the teams do at East end and just try hitting on the break. Maybe would could at least get a point.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 15:35

Yes I agree. We need to at least not loose games.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 16:10

Jim, the problem that playing Williamson at right mid is that he has zero control, technique, presence or quality delivery, it’s head down and run and that only works on the overlap and it pretty much only works if his mate higgy walks him through the game. Notice even higgy giving him pelters for being a boy in a mans game yesterday.

In other words he shouldn’t be near our team. Local boy or not.



Just sitting here drenched in my own negativity!

Post Edited (Sun 11 Nov 16:12)
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 16:20

The folk in charge of the Scotland under 21s obviously see something in him that has escaped you.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 16:31

Berkey is a one man demolition job on Williamson.

He has been poor or worse in his last two games, but overall he is nowhere near as bad as berkey has been saying for two seasons now.

And regardless of opinion, managers and selectors keep picking him.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 16:34

If we replace the manager his successor should definitely put Berkey in charge of recruitment. He'd never sign a dud.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 17:08

I’d maybe sign buds but I wouldn’t persevere with them when it’s obvious they can’t cut it.

A right back petrified to tackle, pull the other one.

Just sitting here drenched in my own negativity!
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 17:13

'buds' would be good.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 17:29

I take it you missed his sliding tackle in the second half and his block on their winger trying to put a cross over.

It might be a good thing if you were to put your points to his face and ask him why he chose football as a career.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 17:36

"The time has come i think to give up on Williamson as a fullback. I would give him a shot on the right wing"

Berkey's reply to that is a decent one, it can apply to him as a wing back also.

"Martin back at right back moving Craigan into midfield"

definately an option, would have had Craigen in there with Thomson yesterday.

"If Keena is not fit i would give a striking role to Lewis McCann for next match"

like what ive seen of McCann in preseason and the reserves but I wouldn't do it no.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: Cleveland12  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 17:39

Where was Beadling yesterday? Have I missed him getting injured again

Feed the Moff
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 17:46

A sliding tackle and a block? Suppose he half got an assist too for thier goal so that’s something.

He hasn’t got the mental strength or ability. In a winning team he can just about be carried but in a team struggling he looks like he wants the ground to swallow him up.

Hasn’t got the stomach for a fight and how can we defend someone who pulls out of every 50-50 and most of the 60-40 in his favour? His nickname should be Casper after yesterday.

Go hard or go home.

Just sitting here drenched in my own negativity!
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 18:33

You have a very high opinion of your assessment of a footballers berkey and quite frankly it's becoming sickening that a supporter can do so much to try to destroy a player's career.

You clearly are at odds with out own manager and Scotland selectors.

Maybe one day you will come from behind your keyboard and tell Ryan your thoughts to his face.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 19:01

Berkey is well within his rights to discuss/highlight Ryans performances. It’s a football forum.
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 Re: The Morning After......
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 11 Nov 22:22

And if he puts his point out there we're quite within our rights to tell him he's talking sh1t

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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