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 A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Bigfoot  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 13:54

As a slight aside, I've just watched the highlights of the St Mirren v Hearts game (Hammil's first goal is superb btw). Anyways, I am not sure what the attendance is, but the ground only holds 8000, and I reckon it was about two thirds full.

My point is that the stadium has been built with this sort of capacity in mind and to me it looks like a great stadium to play in. So perhaps we as a nation, and perhaps as individual clubs, need to look at the St Mirren model and have stadia that are fit for purpose.

Yes it may mean lost revenue against bigger teams, but if we were in the top league where, historically, have somewhere around 5000 home fans at matches and say 500 - 1000 away fans, surely that must be help the players/home atmosphere?

Now I don't know who owns what at DAFC these days, but assuming we could sell the ground for housing and use the revenue to build a new stadium at say Halbeath with a plastic pitch.

It would allow us to rent the ground out to say Cowdenbeath or possibly junior teams (Hill of Beath and Crossgates come to mind) to train and play. Add in the savings of training on the pitch year round, the reserves and youth teams training an playing there too, as well as renting the pitch out to the general public, the revenue you would think must more than compensate, let alone the savings on maintenance, undersoil heating, lighting, etc associated with EEP.

I fully appreciate that it would mean losing the nostalgia of "that's where I stood when I watched ......" and some may say it is an issue that they can't get a pint before or after the game in town. But having facilities at the ground would hopefully increase revenue.

And how about following the German model, where a match ticket gets you free public transport to/from the game.

Fully appreciate that there are holes to be made in the above, but it would be interested to hear folks views on the above hypothesis.

Cheers

Jesus saves, but Kirk nets rebound
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: AB Loyal  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 13:56

Club don’t own the stadium. A good idea but a non starter.


What’s not out with the realms of possibility is to have a plastic pitch installed.

The Prophet - 12/07/18.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 13:57

have thought about this before as well the old hyundai land would be pretty ideal but think Shephard owns most of that now. Smaller, purpose built combined sports village close to new estates etc. Funding be an issue. Given we dont own EEP either its just a dream.

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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 14:05

A lot of serious research and canvassing would need to be done and as we've seen on another thread, artificial surfaces are not universally liked, but emotions aside and I for one would shed a tear, such a move could make sense.
Other teams have relocated to new stadia and not suffered badly, I think, but public opinion might not buy into it for us.

Aberdeen are on the verge of moving to the outskirts of the city and I can only imagine that their Board have looked at all the options. Pittodrie is in a far worse state than East End mind you.

One thing is certain, nothing can stay the same forever.

Part of any deal that might be proposed would need to have, one if not two pubs as part of it lol.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 14:20

Who owns the ground now?
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 14:26

Those shoe box stands at St Mirren, Airdrie, Clyde etc are soulless. No thank you.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 14:27

Pars United (East End Park) Limited.

A lot of overlap between them and the club as you would expect.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: davepars  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 14:28

PP, the old Hyundai land is a great shout. It's right across the road from me. There is the small problem of circa 400 houses being built on it though :-)
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 14:29

Quote:

wetherby, Thu 29 Nov 14:26

Those shoe box stands at St Mirren, Airdrie, Clyde etc are soulless. No thank you.


I'd hate to leave East End but if we had to do it for the best interests of the club I'd run with it but I'd also hate it if we ended up with a ground like any of those as they are indeed soulless shells of football grounds.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 14:48

Not sure Falkirk would agree that they have not suffered since moving from Brockville.

There is a lot of opposition locally to Aberdeen relocating from Pittodrie from residents around the intended new stadium.

I doubt any proposal that included public houses would get planning permission.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 14:50

Is Dundee still planning a move away from Dens?
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 15:14

Would the land be worth more to developers considering all the demolition cost etc, as I can’t see a supermarket going for it. This leaves only housing, which is already being built on the old Motorola site, when you consider the additional parking requirements of a new stadium you would get less houses in EEP than the new area.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 15:36

Mind when they wanted to build a stadium down at pitreavie

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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 16:00

does the huge ends of EEP make it any less soulless that some of the grojunds mentioned? Not like its a Kop or Jungle where the "partizan" atmosphere can be felt even where the ground is empty.

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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 16:06

Serious question.
What's the difference between having an 11000 stadium and say one with 7000 capacity?
When crap away support, we close two stands down and shift them into the main stand.

Aside from lighting cost, there are no real extra costs such as stewards, eating or cleaning when that happens.

Having a bigger stadium allows for the odd game that attracts 10000 or more such as huge promotion battles, playoffs, or visitors playing for a titles.
That is huge revenue for a club like ours.

Imagine a game like we had with Raith some years back and only 6000 allowed in when we could , and did come close to a sell out?

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 16:53

I'd rather not leave East End, although I believe that as part of the stadium deal with Pars United (EEP) Ltd if East End was to be sold then they'd have to provide a way for us to continue playing football in the town so it's not outwith the realms of possibility. I'd rather not have a small Lego stadium though - whisper it, but Falkirk actually at least have an interesting Main Stand, although the rest of the ground isn't great and it obviously only has three sides and if it ever did get finished it would be far too big anyway. There are some nice new builds around of a good size (the stadium that Molde play in is a nice 11,000 seater that has two tiers all the way round and is a complete bowl so is capable of generating a good atmosphere and has fairly steep stands) but most of the newer grounds in Scotland are very dull.

I actually like the stands behind the goals at East End since we've made a bit more of an effort than most other places (brickwork rather than metal sheeting, ceramic pissoirs rather than a metal tray in the gents, raised disabled platforms with easy access to disabled toilets, etc) and if we get the scoreboard(s) from UEFA as part of the Women's Euros and were to maybe have TV screens in the concourse so you can go for food and drink and still see the action we'd have an excellent wee ground. After that it would be proper wish list stuff like no pillars in the North Stand and terracing (safe standing at the very least in case we ever make Europe again) in that area too.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 16:57

We could close down the away stand. Ie drain all of the water out of it to stop burst pipes. The lights could be switched off immediately a game stops. To stop it from looking abandoned flags and roll down pictures removed from the North West. This could save money and if we drew a well supported team in a cup the stand could be reinstated.

matt forsyth
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 17:20

Quote:

kelty_par, Thu 29 Nov 16:53

I'd rather not leave East End, although I believe that as part of the stadium deal with Pars United (EEP) Ltd if East End was to be sold then they'd have to provide a way for us to continue playing football in the town so it's not outwith the realms of possibility. I'd rather not have a small Lego stadium though - whisper it, but Falkirk actually at least have an interesting Main Stand, although the rest of the ground isn't great and it obviously only has three sides and if it ever did get finished it would be far too big anyway. There are some nice new builds around of a good size (the stadium that Molde play in is a nice 11,000 seater that has two tiers all the way round and is a complete bowl so is capable of generating a good atmosphere and has fairly steep stands) but most of the newer grounds in Scotland are very dull.

I actually like the stands behind the goals at East End since we've made a bit more of an effort than most other places (brickwork rather than metal sheeting, ceramic pissoirs rather than a metal tray in the gents, raised disabled platforms with easy access to disabled toilets, etc) and if we get the scoreboard(s) from UEFA as part of the Women's Euros and were to maybe have TV screens in the concourse so you can go for food and drink and still see the action we'd have an excellent wee ground. After that it would be proper wish list stuff like no pillars in the North Stand and terracing (safe standing at the very least in case we ever make Europe again) in that area too.


The stands behind the goals at EEP stack up really well with most places, just look at Fulham.

It's just a scaffolding temporary stand effort.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: DRFC_no1  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 17:36

The atmosphere at EEP has been in decline for years (excluding a small pocket in the NW). Maybe it is time for a change.

If a new stadium was built Id imagine safe standing would be introduced which would help IMO.

And a new stadium doesn’t need to look like the others, lets make it our own.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 17:36

They should build more boxes along the front of the main stand and use them for the disabled supporters. Then for most games close the Norrie and the away stand. House some away fans at the end of the main stand, and get the rest in the north west. I reckon that would give us about 5,500 capacity which is more than enough for the majority of games
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Wee are the DA  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 18:14

playing at EEP is a major part of me going to the games, very rarely miss a match. If we move up to Duloch, or anywhere for that matter, to a new lego ground then doubt I would go very much after that, would be like following a new team for me.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: KirklistonPar  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 18:42

Certainly wouldn’t want to loose EEP as our stadium. Teams who tend to alter or move stadiums do it due wanting to increase capacity normally so I can’t see it being cost worthy to lessen or start from scratch. Atmosphere inside the stadium comes down to supporters, just like the great atmosphere we created at the Falkirk game. Empty seats are sad to see but most clubs have them & considering the poor away support most teams bring we do a great job of filling as many seats as we can.
NNNNNNNNOOOOOOO!!!! Hate plastic pitches, they should be banned from professional football.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Paradox  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 18:53

Quote:

AdamAntsParsStripe, Thu 29 Nov 16:06

Serious question.
What's the difference between having an 11000 stadium and say one with 7000 capacity?
When crap away support, we close two stands down and shift them into the main stand.

Aside from lighting cost, there are no real extra costs such as stewards, eating or cleaning when that happens.

Having a bigger stadium allows for the odd game that attracts 10000 or more such as huge promotion battles, playoffs, or visitors playing for a titles.
That is huge revenue for a club like ours.

Imagine a game like we had with Raith some years back and only 6000 allowed in when we could , and did come close to a sell out?


As far as I am aware the costs associated with running and maintaining EEP are significant, and probably far outweigh any profit from the odd crowd of 7,000 plus.

A lot of the maintenance is still done by volunteers or goodwill just to keep it up to standard.

I don't buy into the sentiment with football stadia. The stadium now has changed vastly since the early 1980s and even more so since before the current main stand was built.

IIRC the original EEP was in a different location anyway.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 19:16

Personally I like sitting in the middle of the Norrie. You get a great view unhindered by posts and you get a feeling of how players use the width of the pitch. Perhaps our end stands were built to large but in another post I spoke about a change that I would make. I do not want to sit in the NW as I hate having my vision of the pitch impaired with supports.

matt forsyth
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: RhinoPars  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 19:57

I love East End Park and would hate to see us move.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 20:25

Wasn't EEP redeveloped late 90s when the SPL(?) required 10,000 all seated stadiums to participate in the top flight?
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 21:59

Every home team should have a home end to shoot towards. I remember Bertie saying we used to sook the ball into the net second half. I miss those days

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: rossmcno1  
Date:   Thu 29 Nov 22:27

I asked this question at the fans forum about what could/would happen re a stadium move. As others have pointed out part of the arrangement with EEP is that it must only be used for football unless provision was made for a football stadium in the town for the club elsewhere.

Where we could see the benefit is if we got more cash for the land and ground as is than it would do build a new stadium. I love East end but the happiest memories for me have already gone when the terracing was bulldozed, sure more happy ones to be made, but the club isn’t the ground etc.

Dream scenario for me would be stadium with 3 stands with 8000 seats, and one big terrace along the length of the pitch with a 4000 capacity. That way we get best of both worlds. I’d also make it so the terracing filled the corners so we get that bowl fit which would help atmosphere. Can but dream tho eh!!



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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Fri 30 Nov 00:15

Re the OP, and questions about ownership etc of EEP. There has been a pdf available on the DAFC website for years, explaining the current arrangements. It's under the tab for CLUB / Pars United Acquisitions and can be read HERE.

As rossmcno1 says, there was also a discussion table at the recent Supporters' Council meeting specifically devoted to governance issues, where Board members explained in detail to the fans who attended such matters as the ownership of EEP, the relationship of DAFC Ltd to PUCIC and PU(EEP) Ltd etc.

Re the possibility of selling to developers for housing, my understanding is that this would require a change to Fife Council's planning designation of the land (not impossible, but unlikely.) And as there are plenty of supermarkets in Dunfermline the "St Johnstone" route is effectively closed.

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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle  
Date:   Fri 30 Nov 01:27

I'd imagine the town location is a significant factor in our continuing decent level of support. Move out of town (even picking up and moving EEP to Halbeath) and we would immediately lose a percentage of fans forever.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Fri 30 Nov 09:28

"I'd imagine the town location is a significant factor in our continuing decent level of support. Move out of town (even picking up and moving EEP to Halbeath) and we would immediately lose a percentage of fans forever."

but gain how many by being on a new doorstep?

As said its all just talk as its not ours to own and significant funding/investment needed to build elsewhere

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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Row_ZZ  
Date:   Fri 30 Nov 12:56

Would rather see us install safe standing tbh. Would create a better atmosphere.


I Know There's Gonna Be (Good Times)
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Bigfoot  
Date:   Fri 30 Nov 12:56

Cheers for the input folks - some interesting comments.

This is a question I ask about this time each year. Not sure if the DAFT.NET demographics has changed, but there are a lot more neutral or favourable comments than in the past "surveys".

Also thanks for link/summary regarding EEP ownership/planning - thought it wasn't DAFC - but could be ar5ed finding out who owned it.

I would tend to agree that the ground should be in the town centre rather than on the perimeter. But the lack of any suitable ground, as well as the better transport links, make an out of town stadia more attractive.

There was talk one time of Lauder/Fife College moving into the Chalmers Street Car-park.

On the assumption that EEP could be sold and the revenue used to finance a new ground, could the car-park become multi storey (two levels of parking increases spaces and revenue), with a 8000 seater over?

Flight of fancy I know but say 6000 fans towards bottom end of the town where there are a lot of sole traders desperately needing increased footfall.

Jesus saves, but Kirk nets rebound
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 30 Nov 21:00

I speak as an outsider who has not been to EEP for some years. But 'footfall' is a lot less important than football in my view. The chronic inability to make good use of the retail shops in the vicinity of the Glen is not something that can be laid at the door of DAFC.

EEP is widely respected on Fans Forums who have visited the ground, sometimes as part of an odyssey to visit every ground in the UK. The food and the support services, as well as transport links are always highly regarded. We have an excellent stadium in an excellent location. A relaxation of the all seater stadium criteria would be the best way forward in the short term. In the last 25 years fans have showed that they want to stand to watch football, as they always did, and that is the first step towards creating atmosphere in grounds.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Fri 30 Nov 21:38

"A relaxation of the all seater stadium criteria would be the best way forward in the short term.:

That's already happened (except for European games and Internationals).
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Fri 30 Nov 23:52

I would hardly think the food out with of hospitality is highly regarded.

A pie, bridie, bovril or stovies and not much else really. No chips, no burgers or hot dogs, no crisps and no cold drinks.

Joking aside, I'm sure most fans don't really expect much at football grounds anyway.

As for a new stadium, not too fussed one way or another. It's a new team we need first.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 00:56

Sammer makes a good point and it's certainly been echoed by a lot of away fans at my work that we have a good stadium in a good location that a lot of fans see as a good away day as well as been handy for our core support.

Awight Pat!

Post Edited (Sat 01 Dec 01:02)
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 01:14

Pompey, as you say it's all hypothetical. But I would guess you would lose a lot more than you gain by moving out of town. Think about all the folks getting public transport into the town centre, a hub. Then a short walk to the stadium. Factor in a second bus (which would be seriously mobbed coming homewards after the game), and a lot of folks wouldn't bother. That would not be offset by a tiny number of people who would now go to the footy because they have a ground "on their doorstep" as opposed to a short bus journey away towards town.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 01:19

We do have a decent ground, certainly by comparison to many others in Scotland.
It looks particularly good from the street view, with the wide pavement and lined with trees.
The approach to many grounds are grey and look run down, when seen against ours.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Toumba Libre  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 11:01

Quote:

Wee are the DA, Thu 29 Nov 18:14

playing at EEP is a major part of me going to the games, very rarely miss a match. If we move up to Duloch, or anywhere for that matter, to a new lego ground then doubt I would go very much after that, would be like following a new team for me.


For how long have you been supporting The Pars and how/why did you start?
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 11:42

Bit off topic but has anyone seen the boards on the undercroft of the main stand? They're fantastic detailing the history of EEP.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: gegganpar  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 12:35

"Hark now hear the angels sing
a king was born today
and man will live forever more
because of Jim Bowie".

Could we no bring him back too "THE FUTURE "

J angus blacklaws
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 12:44

Grant, these panels have been designed, paid for and erected by Dunfermline Athletic Heritage Trust, glad you like them.

The Trust will be putting something out shortly on its Facebook pages and website, so that folk who don't go to the Main Stand get to see what the panels look like.

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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 13:42

Was at a wedding reception last night so was the first I'd seen of them, absolutely outstanding.
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: parsmania  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 13:44

I'm glad the move to Pitreavie fell through when ASDA built out at Halbeath. I think the example of St Johnstone moving out to the sticks shows that the ground should be as close to the town centre as possible.

A new stadium re-development is out of reach for now, but one quick fix would be to convert the NW stand back to "proper" terracing.

Here's a glimpse of what could have been ...

Pitreavie Stadium Plans from 1988



----------------------------------------------------


ParsFanzines
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 Re: A New Stadium
Topic Originator: gwh18  
Date:   Sat 1 Dec 16:50

Had in my head the Pitreavie stadium was going to be 30,000, which wasn’t so fanciful at the time when games against hibs, hearts and Aberdeen where 12 to 15 thousand and the original rangers and Celtic would be around 20,000.

All the feedback from way fans I have received is that the catering is one of their enjoyable parts of east end. The Edinburgh clubs particularly like their day out to Dunfermline with the location of the trains and town centre.

In all seriousness do new stadiums not need maintained? Two of our stands are reasonably new and i’m Sure the cost of maintenance and the like is relatively modest especially considering the volunteer aspects of the work.

I have no interest in a St Johnstone, livi, St mirren soulless development on the edge of town. Maybe worth considering East end was once On the edge of town.




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