DAFC.net
Home 12 December 2018 
 Post Message  |  Top of Board  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Twitter Updates  |  Log In   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 
[ please login to use the Like feature ]
 Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 2 Dec 07:35

I was at a family party at Easter Road last night and had a look at the Hibs HoF, in the entrance to the main stand. Older Pars fans will be astonished to learn that Alex Edwards does not feature, while some relatively average players do.

Edwards was a very influential player in a highly entertaining Hibs team managed by Eddie Turnbull in the early 70s. Their exciting brand of football coincided with a decline in the Pars fortunes and I often used to cross the Forth Bridge to watch Hibs in midweek European matches, something that was sadly missing at EEP by then.

That fine Hibs team, like the Pars teams of the 60s, didn't win many trophies, but still rolls of the tongue nearly 50 years on......

Herriot, Brownlie, Schaedler, Stanton, Black and Blackley, Edwards, O'Rourke, Gordon, Cropley and Duncan.

Get it sorted, Hibbees!



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sun 2 Dec 16:08

Alex Edwards probably played his best football for that Hibernian side, for by then he had developed into the best playmaker in Scottish football. With Dunfermline, Alex had often been playing a supporting role to Alex Smith or Hughie Robertson and it was only in his later seasons at EEP he was given the responsibility to dictate the play.

I’m not a supporter of the Hall of Fame concept though, which is a bit like our Honours system or the House of Lords in that selection can be arbitrary. There’s also the problem of choosing between someone like Willie Renton, who was highly effective for two years in a black and white jersey, and Jim Thomson, who gave steady service for over a decade. I think we should celebrate the teams, as you did GG, rather than pick out individual players.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 2 Dec 19:50

Quote:

sammer, Sun 2 Dec 16:08

Alex Edwards probably played his best football for that Hibernian side, for by then he had developed into the best playmaker in Scottish football. With Dunfermline, Alex had often been playing a supporting role to Alex Smith or Hughie Robertson and it was only in his later seasons at EEP he was given the responsibility to dictate the play.

I’m not a supporter of the Hall of Fame concept though, which is a bit like our Honours system or the House of Lords in that selection can be arbitrary. There’s also the problem of choosing between someone like Willie Renton, who was highly effective for two years in a black and white jersey, and Jim Thomson, who gave steady service for over a decade. I think we should celebrate the teams, as you did GG, rather than pick out individual players.


I completely agree with your sentiments 're Halls of Fame, Sammer, but given we have them, I think it's fair to comment about any stand out exclusion and Alex Edwards certainly falls into that category. I don't want to go down the road of naming those lesser players who are included, but Edwards really should be in there.

Great shout 're Willie Renton. What a cultured left foot he had. He's at most home games, along with wee Willie Callaghan. No reason he (and Jim Thomson) shouldn't be inducted into the Pars HoF. Roy Barry was only at EEP for slightly longer, if memory serves.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sun 2 Dec 22:54

Interesting comments from both of you, as usual. I too greatly admired Willie Renton who I recall as a cultured left-half who rarely put a foot wrong. I liked Jim Thomson too, who was steady as a rock in the same position for a much longer period at EEP.

In those days of no subs, we seemed to have a much smaller group of players in the first team pool and perhaps for that reason I have in my memory perhaps only 15, certainly no more than 20, players who were regulars from say 1965 to 1969 the period when I started following the Pars.

With our turnover these days, I struggle to recall players even from last season.

Those of us over 60 mostly see the Pars history though rose-tinted spectacles as we had the opportunity to experience the so-called glory days. Those players names from that period are etched in our memory forever.

That said, I have more than a bit of sympathy for those folk in their 50s today who were introduced to the Pars when they were dire as dire can be. Yet still they support the Pars today. They clearly were made of much tougher stuff than us old fogeys who obviously were just "glory hunters".

:)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sun 2 Dec 23:08

Ozpar,

We were lucky to be born at a good time as Pars fans.

But the core support from the 1960s seems to have created a really good bedrock support up to the present day. In terms of attendances, DAFC are a top ten club. Why don't Raith Rovers have a comparable support?

sammer

Post Edited (Sun 02 Dec 23:09)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: QPR_Par  
Date:   Sun 2 Dec 23:46

I'm astonished to hear that Alex Edwards is not in the Hibs hall of fame, in fact I'd expect all 11 players in the team that you mentioned to be included, when they won the League Cup in 1972 it was their first major domestic honour in 20 years.

I remember watching the highlights of that final with my dad who was also a regular at EEP until we moved away. It still sticks in my mind how he enthused over Alex Edwards' performance that day.

I firmly believe that Hibs would have won the League that season if it wasn't for some horrendous luck in a game against East Fife at Easter Road in January '73. John Brownlie broke his leg whilst Mickey was sent off for violent conduct and suspended for 8 games. If I remember correctly Edwards had been kicked up and down the park all game long and his temper snapped.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: Bigfoot  
Date:   Mon 3 Dec 13:36

Ozpar - I am one of those 50 somethings ... and am lucky to be a pars fan.

My uncle was a Pars man and was winching a lass from Edinburgh. One day whilst shopping in Auld Reekie, he had popped into a sports shop to get a DA kit for me and my brother.

Unfortunately they had none and, rather than return empty handed was going to buy us a strip from one of the two Edinburgh clubs. Thankfully he couldn't decide on Hibs or Hearts.

That Christmas, I opened up my main present (yes in those days your were lucky to get a present). I still remember seeing the socks first and that was it I was hooked on the DA!

I remember liking the name Hibees and the chant
"OOh to, Oooh to be,
Oooh to be a, Hibee!"

Reckon if I hadn't received that strip at that time, I would have become a Hibs fan.

Jesus saves, but Kirk nets rebound
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: Parsenal  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 11:55

Even after all these years I still can't believe we sold Edwards to Hibs for the less-than-princely sum of £13K. Peanuts, even then.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 14:20

"Even after all these years I still can't believe we sold Edwards to Hibs for the less-than-princely sum of £13K. Peanuts, even then."

DAFC were in dire financial trouble then and close to going under - the club would have sold anything it owned to make a few quid.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 15:57

I think Alex Edwards' transfer for £13,000 was Eddie Turnbull's first signing for Hibs and along with Alan Gordon who came for around the same price from Dundee Utd the Turnbull Tornadoes was up and running. Both played the best football of their outstanding careers for that Hibs team. Alan Gordon was transferred because he would not live in the Dundee area as required by new manager Jim McLean. McLean replaced him by 'stealing' Pat Gardner from the Pars for another miserly fee- around £8,000 I think. Two years later Pat was sold to Motherwell for twice that amount.


I am not sure why DAFC were in such terrible financial trouble at the time. Alex Wright changed the strip to all white because it cost less than the black and white version. That sounds like the sort of tale that came out of Third Lanark before they went under. In his recent interview Alex Edwards suggested that there were special payments being made to players by one of the directors, and that when he left there were problems. I would like to know more. The loss of Edwards and Gardner was surely a major factor in our being relegated at the end of season 1971-72.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 16:01

Didn't Alex Edwards also say in that interview that his signing-on fee from Hibs was bigger than the club's transfer fee?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 18:23

Quote:

sammer, Wed 5 Dec 15:57

I think Alex Edwards' transfer for £13,000 was Eddie Turnbull's first signing for Hibs and along with Alan Gordon who came for around the same price from Dundee Utd the Turnbull Tornadoes was up and running. Both played the best football of their outstanding careers for that Hibs team. Alan Gordon was transferred because he would not live in the Dundee area as required by new manager Jim McLean. McLean replaced him by 'stealing' Pat Gardner from the Pars for another miserly fee- around £8,000 I think. Two years later Pat was sold to Motherwell for twice that amount.


I am not sure why DAFC were in such terrible financial trouble at the time. Alex Wright changed the strip to all white because it cost less than the black and white version. That sounds like the sort of tale that came out of Third Lanark before they went under. In his recent interview Alex Edwards suggested that there were special payments being made to players by one of the directors, and that when he left there were problems. I would like to know more. The loss of Edwards and Gardner was surely a major factor in our being relegated at the end of season 1971-72.


Leonard Jack, Bank rolled us a fair bit at that time and when he died his family weren't interested and took their stake in the club away, leaving us struggling. There was talk at the time of the club being taken over by a few Edinburgh business men, but it never happened.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 18:49

No doubt, the Pars were poorer from Leonard Jack's death, but it's also significant that, around the same time, they stopped producing players they could sell on for a decent fee, which helped to balance the books in the 60s.

It was reported in 1968, in Hugh Taylor's Scottish Football Annual, that the Pars paid the highest wages outside the OF.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 22:19

GG Riva’s recollections are pretty accurate. During what is called The Golden Years of DAFC in the 1960s when we were playing before large crowds in European ties, we still had to sell one good player a year to meet the wage bill. This is similar to what Jim McLean had to do at Dundee Utd, by selling Ray Stewart to West Ham and Andy Gary to Aston Villa to afford a wage bill that eventually allowed him to win the League title.

OUT IN
1965: Jackie Sinclair £25,000 Hugh Robertson £10,000
1966: Alex Smith £55,000 Roy Barry £12,000
1967: Alex Ferguson £60,000 Pat Gardner £25,000
1968: Tom Callaghan £35,000 Willie Renton £12,000
1969: Roy Barry £40,000 Doug Baillie £10,000

What should have happened was:
1970: Alex Edwards £70,000
1971: Dave McNicoll £40,000
1972: Barrie Mitchell £60,000
1973: Ken Mackie £55,000

I appreciate these figures are only an approximation, but the last four players were transferred for meagre amounts of what they had been worth. Something very wrong happened with the running of the club in the early 1970s.

sammer

Post Edited (Wed 05 Dec 22:29)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 22:34

Sorry the alignment of my post is a bit scrambled, but the basic point is that we sold our best players and bought good replacements for a bit less. Some of the replacements proved as good as those who were sold. But this came to a crashing end in the early 1970s when we ended up selling players as good as Edwards, Gardner and Mitchell in some sort of fire sale. It was appalling and ultimately set the club back by years, despite the best efforts of players like Cushley and Kinninmonth who tried to fill the gap.

sammer
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Wed 5 Dec 23:30

In addition to the high wages paid in those times, the other financially crippling factor was repayments for the new stand which I think ran on for some years.
But for sure, some players were sold for a fraction of their worth, but Fergie and Alex Smith were Scottish records when they went, both to a rival club sadly.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: QPR_Par  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 00:11

"This is similar to what Jim McLean had to do at Dundee Utd, by selling Ray Stewart to West Ham and Andy Gary to Aston Villa to afford a wage bill that eventually allowed him to win the League title."

Sorry Sammer, I had to chuckle at your typo. Andy Gray was on loan at Notts County in 1987-88. In that close season, they also signed Garry Birtles, Gary Lund, and Gary Mills so a Notts County supporting mate started calling him Andy Anagram.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: HalbeathRoad  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 00:11

Those fees would be quite eye watering in today’s market when you factor in inflation.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 05:53

From a long-term perspective, I think the club's sale of Humbug Park around that time was hugely damaging.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 07:52

Quote:

OzPar, Thu 6 Dec 05:53

From a long-term perspective, I think the club's sale of Humbug Park around that time was hugely damaging.


That was probably a short sighted effort to keep our sinking ship afloat, Oz. We've no idea how much cash that brought in, but how much would such a training facility be worth today?

With regards to transfer fees, many buying clubs would have heard that the Pars were struggling to make ends meet and so those without scruples would have no problem in making derisory offers for our best players, something both Celtic and Rangers became notorious for over the years. £50k for Dariusz Adamciuk, Dundee's Polish international, is one name that springs readily to mind. There ate countless other examples. Very few provincial sides had the cajones to stand up to the OF, especially if the players in question were desperate to go. Even then, it didn't always work.

Remember Richard Gough? Jolly Jim McLean refused to sell him to Rangers, so he joined Spurs instead, who promptly sold him to the Ibrox club.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 08:51

The Pars have had a few forays into training grounds without much success.
In addition to Humbug Park in Crossgates, there was also Eagle Glen in Kingseat, both of which ended up with links to housing developments unsurprisingly.

More recently there was the tie up with Pitreavie which became very messy legally.

Now they have the use of McKane Park, rarely used in this kind of weather, hence the training on the astro at Kelty.

When I worked at Aberdeen I used to see the Aberdeen team having training sessions on the public grassy area near to the old ballroom, then an ice rink, bringing goals, cones, nets of balls etc.
Cheap and cheerful, I suppose. Some of the players even jogged/walked from nearby Pittodrie.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 10:59

"Remember Richard Gough? Jolly Jim McLean refused to sell him to Rangers, so he joined Spurs instead, who promptly sold him to the Ibrox club."

Kind of, but not really - Richard Gough spent a full season at Spurs, captaining them in the 1987 FA Cup Final (they lost 3-2 to Coventry). Not quite as blatant as Robert Jarni moving from Real Betis to Coventry and not even playing a game for them before he was sold on to Real Madrid. Coventry made a few hundred thousand in commission for parking him there for a week or two.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 14:52

Didn’t Rangers offer £100,000 for Ken Mackie ?

The club were keen on the cash - but he decided not to go to Ibrox.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: Parsenal  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 15:42

I do remember it was at least rumoured that Rangers had offered £100,000 for Ken Mackie. Whatever happened to him?

A quick enquiry to Prof Google reveals that £13,000 in 1970 equates to £200,000 today.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: HalbeathRoad  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 16:03

£60k for Fergie in 1967 equates to just over £1m today.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 16:57

Football inflation is of course far more inflated than the mere currency.

When Fergie went for £60,000 that was around 40% of the top English transfer fee for Allan Clarke, bought by Leeds United.

A modern day comparison would be with Lukaku, so in modern football terms Fergie's deal would have been worth £30m. All hypothetical of course.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 17:04

Quote:

Parsenal, Thu 6 Dec 15:42

I do remember it was at least rumoured that Rangers had offered £100,000 for Ken Mackie. Whatever happened to him?

I think it was £50k they offered and some Pars fans thought he wasn't worth that much. The Pars accepted the bid but Mackie refused to go as he didn't feel ready for such a move. He never realised his early potential and ended up at East Fife, IIRC.

A quick enquiry to Prof Google reveals that £13,000 in 1970 equates to £200,000 today.


Still peanuts. An Alex Edwards at his peak would be worth £50/60m at today's crazy prices. Everton were ready to table a bid of £80k in 1965 and their manager came up to watch him. Unfortunately for Edwards, he knew he was being watched and was fearful of picking up an injury. He ended up having a very quiet game and the Everton cheque book stayed in the manager's pocket. Would that be a million in today's money? Still rubbish. Didn't we get £600k for Jackie McNamara, who didn't even a 10th of Edwards talent.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 17:10

Quote:

kelty_par, Thu 6 Dec 10:59

"Remember Richard Gough? Jolly Jim McLean refused to sell him to Rangers, so he joined Spurs instead, who promptly sold him to the Ibrox club."

Kind of, but not really - Richard Gough spent a full season at Spurs, captaining them in the 1987 FA Cup Final (they lost 3-2 to Coventry). Not quite as blatant as Robert Jarni moving from Real Betis to Coventry and not even playing a game for them before he was sold on to Real Madrid. Coventry made a few hundred thousand in commission for parking him there for a week or two.


Aye KP, a bit of poetic licence with the use of the word 'promptly ' but the fact remains he ended up in exactly the place his club didn't want him to go to.

I think transfer tribunals came about in Scotland precisely because the OF would often 'tap up' a player at a rival club to unsettle him and then come in with a derisory bid.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 18:44

A bit harsh on Jackie McNamara who was a highly regarded fullback in his day.
Alex was a brilliant winger but not many players even today are valued at 50, 60 million and certainly not for the provincial clubs.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 19:08

Wonder why Jock Stein didn't take Edwards to park head.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 19:36

A wee bit unfair on Jackie GG he was an outstanding attacking full back
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 20:04

Jimmy Johnstone was the established right winger at Parkhead. Similar story at Ibrox with Willie Henderson.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: HalbeathRoad  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 20:56

We got absolutely rimmed on the McNamara deal.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 22:21

"Didn't we get £600k for Jackie McNamara, who didn't even a 10th of Edwards talent.[/quote"
Bit harsh on Jackie McNamara but when you look at their respective careers, clubs and honours, I'm pretty sure I would rather have Jackie's 4 league championships, 3 league cups and 3 Scottish cups as well as 33 Scotland caps and World Cup appearances, than Edwards 1 league cup and 1 Scottish cup
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 22:40

Quote:

red-star-par, Thu 6 Dec 22:21

"Didn't we get £600k for Jackie McNamara, who didn't even a 10th of Edwards talent.[/quote"
Bit harsh on Jackie McNamara but when you look at their respective careers, clubs and honours, I'm pretty sure I would rather have Jackie's 4 league championships, 3 league cups and 3 Scottish cups as well as 33 Scotland caps and World Cup appearances, than Edwards 1 league cup and 1 Scottish cup


Yes, I'm probably guilty as charged, but while Jackie was undoubtedly a good full back, Alex Edwards is the best Pars player of all time, in my book and that of many Pars fans who saw him play. He was an absolute genius. I don't think it's any exaggeration to say he could do a similar job to David Silva at Man City. People who saw him at his best will concur. His only weakness was a tendency to retaliate to brutal, repetitive fouling and get himself sent off.

Jock Stein is quoted to have said that he would have taken Edwards to Celtic if he hadn't had Jinky.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 6 Dec 23:06

"Didn't we get £600k for Jackie McNamara, who didn't even a 10th of Edwards talent."

Behave yourself GG, Jackie was an excellent attacking right back.

Totally different type of player to Alex Edwards, an invidious comparison.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 7 Dec 06:44

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 6 Dec 23:06

"Didn't we get £600k for Jackie McNamara, who didn't even a 10th of Edwards talent."

Behave yourself GG, Jackie was an excellent attacking right back.

Totally different type of player to Alex Edwards, an invidious comparison.


Each it's just a bit of hyperbole, VEE, besides I was really trying to extol the virtues of Edwards rather than insult McNamara. Jackie was a fine attacking full back, as was Willie Callaghan in the 60s. He got a miserly one Scotland cap, probably because he didn't play for either ofvthe OF.

The only reason he featured in this thread is because he is our record sale, so it was to contrast transfer values rather than playing ability. It's true that you can't compare a player like Gary Neville with George Best. Neville won plenty of England caps but Best was sublime.

In 55 years of watching the Pars, my top 3 for technical brilliance would be Alex Edwards, Istvan Kozma and Alex Smith. They all brought different qualities to their teams. Edwards and Kozma were not particularly consistent and Smith wasn't the quickest but, on their day they were unplayable.

Apologies to all the other superb Pars players who don't make my top 3.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Fri 7 Dec 09:16

Probably agree with your top 3 GG.

Others might have contributed different qualities whilst with the Pars, being less brilliant but more quietly consistent.
Jim Thomson, Tommy Callaghan, Norrie McCathie spring to mind.

At their best Edwards, Smith and also W. Callaghan and Lunn would have had international careers were they at Rangers or Celtic imo.

Out of interest, here's a short article on 'Tids' from a Celtic news magazine.

https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/tommy-callaghan-great-uncapped-celts-part-six/

Sorry can't make the link work on my tablet.



Post Edited (Fri 07 Dec 09:24)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 7 Dec 09:32

Quote:

mach1, Fri 7 Dec 09:16

Probably agree with your top 3 GG.

Others might have contributed different qualities whilst with the Pars, being less brilliant but more quietly consistent.
Jim Thomson, Tommy Callaghan, Norrie McCathie spring to mind.

At their best Edwards, Smith and also W. Callaghan and Lunn would have had international careers were they at Rangers or Celtic imo.

Out of interest, here's a short article on 'Tids' from a Celtic news magazine.

https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/tommy-callaghan-great-uncapped-celts-part-six/

Sorry can't make the link work on my tablet.


Can't believe you left out Roy Barry, mach1. Would you like me to arrange for you to meet him, so you can tell him in person? 😉



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Fri 7 Dec 09:41

I've spoken to Roy several times thanks GG.

He is my all time favourite Pars player, but doesn't fit into the technical brilliance, or quietly consistent categories.

He had different qualities which in his short time with us, led the team to some of their best ever results.
Like others mentioned, he also was up against Old Firm players when international selectors came looking, mainly Billy MCNeil.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 7 Dec 10:44

Kozma had the ability and skills but was missing in action in many games - he only "played" one in every four or five matches.

Hugh Robertson was one of my favourites, extremely skillful, and he performed consistently - a key player in the late 60s side that did so well.

I mind him and Edwards leading Rangers a merry dance on a snow covered EEP when Sir Fergie grabbed a couple in a 3-2 win, the scoreline flattered John Grieg's side that night.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 7 Dec 20:53

Vee similar to me Kozma was good but lazy and never won a 50/50 also cannot remember him winning a header

Alex Edwards was a very skilful player but the two stand out Pars players for me were Roy Barry and Hugh Robertson
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 7 Dec 21:28

I saw the majority of the Pars' games the year we won the cup in 1968, and the two most important players were Roy Barry and Hugh Robertson. Alex Edwards, in order to accommodate the new 4-3-3 formation was placed out on the left wing looking very much out of sorts. Interesting that for the final George Farm restored Edwards to the right wing creative role and he played a big part in our win that day.

Hughie Robertson was a much more active player than Alex Edwrads- he would go looking for the ball and make it easy for the man in possession. Alex wanted to find space and be given possession to make his telling pass. For that reason Hughie Robertson was a more consistent player, for he was always involved in the play, and he scored a surprisingly high number of goals from wide midfield. My memory of Alex Edwards, who was a gifted footballer, was that he was a 'huffy' player who played to a very high level when things were going his way. Kozma maybe similar. Hughie Robertson was an enthusiastic player who forced himself into the game.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 7 Dec 22:18

To support Hughie Robertson's scoring ability as a wide midfield player, here are some stats compared to his contemporaries. I have not include Willie Johnston, John Hughes or Bobby Lennox since they spent much of their careers playing as central strikers. League goals only.


Davie Wilson (Rangers): 43%
Hughie Robertson (Pars): 28%
Alex Scott (Rangers) 26%
Jimmy Johnstone (Celtic) 26%
Johnny Hamilton (Hearts) 25%
Tommy McLean (Kilmarnock) 22%
Eric Stevenson (Hibs) 20%
Willie Henderson (Rangers) 8%
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 8 Dec 07:24

Sammer, as always, gives a very clinical and astute evaluation of Pars players and games from the 60s.

Hughie Robertson and Roy Barry were models of consistency and made the biggest contributions week in, week out. "Huffy" is exactly the right term to describe Edwards - on and off the park, btw. When he was in the mood, he was unstoppable - at other times he got involved in little feuds which opponents were only too happy to stoke, as it meant the Pars were effectively a man short. I remember a game at Parkhead in which Bertie Auld did his level best to break Edwards leg (he later succeeded in doing that to Jim Fraser instead) and Billy Bremner booting him high into the evening air at Easter Road in a Fairs Cup tie between Hibs and Leeds, after Edwards had given the English side a chasing for almost the entire first half. It was the kind of "reducer tackle" much loved by Martin Keown of Arsenal and it certainly rendered Edwards almost ineffective after the break.

I don't know if "lazy" is the correct term to describe Kozma, but to watching Scottish eyes, there were plenty of games when his mind was elsewhere, but those of us who were lucky enough to see the 5-1 win over St Mirren will never forget his amazing hat trick, with each goal better than the last. And to think that St Mirren took the lead and were the better team in the 1st half. Sadly, that game was not recorded, so it will only live in the memory of some 7,000 fans.

Alex Smith was also a marvellous and complete player. He could play as a defensive midfielder against the better sides and further forward to utilise his creative skills v weaker opponents. Great vision, awareness and range of passing, he also chipped in with important goals. At Ibrox, Rangers bizarrely played him at centre forward and he was their top scorer in consecutive seasons IIRC.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Sat 08 Dec 07:35)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 8 Dec 09:34

GG is right about Alex Edwards and his feuding.

He and Aberdeen’s Tommy Craig had an ongoing “relationship” - Sent off together in a first team match, then they did an encore performance in a reserve fixture !!!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 8 Dec 10:10

Quote :- G.G.

I don't know if "lazy" is the correct term to describe Kozma, but to watching Scottish eyes, there were plenty of games when his mind was elsewhere, but those of us who were lucky enough to see the 5-1 win over St Mirren will never forget his amazing hat trick, with each goal better than the last. And to think that St Mirren took the lead and were the better team in the 1st half. Sadly, that game was not recorded, so it will only live in the memory of some 7,000 fans.
...................

I was at the St. Mirren game with my son and they scored a cracker to lead 0-1 but what followed will always be in my memory and aye GG Kozma was brilliant
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Hibs Hall of Fame
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sat 8 Dec 14:41

Alex was always a bit of a problem temperamentally, which is quite often the way with brilliant players.

Big Jock had a bit of a job some Friday nights before a matchday trying to be a 'shepherd'. Great times though.

Skill and feistiness are often together. Think Jim Baxter, Jimmy Johnstone, George Best, Denis Law at times, Jimmy Greaves and many others of that era.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Top of Board  |  Forum List  |  Threaded View   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 


f=[], target=[], forgotpass=[] ,
 Forum List  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Security : type 'pars' in the box:
email: