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 Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 19:09

I know I'm quite vociferous in my opposition to VAR, so I wasn't exactly surprised to see VAR be an absolute farce again this weekend in the FA Cup. For one thing, it wasn't used at all games, only those which were televised live (which included several that were televised abroad but not in the UK). We then had the decision in the Burnley v Barnsley game where an office was given on VAR advice (which looked like the wrong decision) that tool so long that the penalty taker was actually starting his run-up before the referee blew his whistle and made the "Screen" symbol. Saturday was also the day that Man Utd had a penalty awarded when there was a contentious issue with a player in an office position which was looked at by VAR but while Vokes of Burnley was given offside despite being nowhere near the play, Lukaku of Man Utd wasn't despite getting in the way of the Reading defender trying to make the challenge. Then yesterday, Fulham were awarded a penalty against Oldham where there was no.contact - VAR checked it and I assumed Cairney was going to get a yellow for a fairly blatant dive yet incredibly the penalty was still awarded despite there being no evidence of any contact.

So for fans of VAR, how can you continue to want to see this farce brought into more of our games?
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 19:14

There have been far more correct decisions given in the world cup alone thanks to VAR than there have been teething problems with it.

No system will ever be perfect and there will still be arguments on interpretive points around VAR but the positives massively outweigh the negatives.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 19:42

I'm in favour of a system which helps to minimise errors and omissions that humans cannot avoid.

It works very well in rugby and of course hawkeye in tennis is universally accepted now.

Of course there will still be errors of interpretation by humans, but many errors will be corrected.

The real problem I see is getting finances to have it at most levels of match.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 19:48

If it is to be introduced surely the reason is to get more consistency with decisions. To then go and have only certain matches in the same competition with access to it creates further inconsistencies.To have more likelihood of getting a wrong decision because your game isn't televised is nonsense. Either every team in the competition should have it or none of them should IMO.



Post Edited (Mon 07 Jan 19:49)
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 19:55

Being used in the English Premiership next season I believe



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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 20:13

Can't come soon enough. Already being used in plenty of countries without too much bother
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 20:15

"There have been far more correct decisions given in the world cup alone thanks to VAR than there have been teething problems with it"

We'll never really know since referees are more likely to allow things to pass knowing things can be looked at again. Some of the decisions in the world cup that were gicen were also laughable, especially the handball ones.

"I'm in favour of a system which helps to minimise errors and omissions that humans cannot avoid."

But errors are still being made - both in the interpretations (active or not) and with basic things (the "contact" for the Cairney penalty).

"It works very well in rugby and of course hawkeye in tennis is universally accepted now."

I wouldn't say it works "very well" in rugby - in some ways it's not used enough as the above the scrum camera should be used to help referees in that area, while in others it's used far too often (even the most obvious tries being reviewed by a TMO as the referee is too scared to just award it). It's also not used well when looking at high tackles etc which always look a lot worse when slowed down (especially if the arm rolls up to the neck). Hawkeye (and the Goal Decision System currently used) is one thing but having an addition referee watching a monitor isn't ideal. In fact many cricket fans will tell you umpires have got worse now they have so much technology to rely on, and the statistics on some test series would seem to bear that out.

"If it is to be introduced surely the reason is to get more consistency with decisions"

That would seem to be the aim but how can we have that if different referees are going to be doing VAR each week. Unless we have a VAR only ref? That would be awful.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 20:18

"Can't come soon enough. Already being used in plenty of countries without too much bother"

Name them, please.

Germany? Disliked by a majority of players and supporters.
Italy? Disliked by players, supporters and the media.
South Korea? Unpopular and possibly being removed.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: HalbeathRoad  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 20:56

Pretty obvious that the Italians would have an issue with VAR in fairness.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 21:01

Quote:

HalbeathRoad, Mon 7 Jan 20:56

Pretty obvious that the Italians would have an issue with VAR in fairness.


Eh, would you care to explain the logic underlying that conclusion, HR?

I can't wait to hear it......



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 21:03

Tonight’s game highlights my argument against VAR in current guise, 2 offsides given when players were indeed onside. Had either player continued and put ball in the net they would be cautioned for delaying restart of the game (laws of game applied correctly) however if no flag and goal is scored and is then VAR reviewed and seen to be offside it’s disallowed

There is now allowance for decisions which are given and are found to be incorrect in that circumstance.

Again reiterate my stance that when players are perfect then our officials should be too.

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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: HalbeathRoad  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 21:19

Quote:

GG Riva, Mon 07 Jan 21:01

Quote:

HalbeathRoad, Mon 7 Jan 20:56

Pretty obvious that the Italians would have an issue with VAR in fairness.


Eh, would you care to explain the logic underlying that conclusion, HR?

I can't wait to hear it......


πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚. I’m only having a laugh. I thought you might dive in on that one. πŸ˜‰
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 21:36

The linesman aren't meant to flag for marginal offside decisions they're meant to let the play go and then the offside gets reviewed retrospectively. Things like that will get better with practice. They're just used to flagging at the moment which if anything highlights why VAR should be good.

In Italy I'd read that there were still one or two controversial decisions including the Turin derby but on the whole it had been running fine and the error rate was something like 1% with a lot of decisions being changed correctly.

I hadn't seen anything on the Bundesliga so I thought it was running fine but it seems they might not have implemented it as well as Italy.

Spain have had one or two controversies but again it's getting more right than wrong.

It's never going to eradicate the mistakes and even at the world cup where there were undoubtedly shocking decisions, it was used correctly more often than not. The focus is always on the mistakes though as when it works it's just considered a run of the mill decision and nobody gives it a second thought.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Mon 7 Jan 22:25

VAR in itself is excellent. It's those that are calling for it, reviewing it and making the decisions off the back of it that need upskilled pretty quickly on it.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 00:43

One more in favour of VAR. the process needs improving but the concept is sound




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 01:33

There was contact for the penalty in the Fulham v Oldham game.
It doesn't look enough to make the player go down but he certainly gets contact on the top of his foot from the defender.
It's a decision that could have gone either way. To overturn the referee on this one would also have been very controversial and used to argue against VAR.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 08:50

"The linesman aren't meant to flag for marginal offside decisions they're meant to let the play go and then the offside gets reviewed retrospectively. Things like that will get better with practice. They're just used to flagging at the moment which if anything highlights why VAR should be good"

so VAR pretty much eliminates the requirement for assistant referees either side of the pitch as well as behind the goal if VAR is in use?

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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 08:58

Maybe not remove them completely as you want to limit the use of VAR as much as possible but it's definitely meant to cover the scenario you described and provide a review capability for any decision that all the officials either miss or got wrong.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: 1985Par  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 09:20

Personally I'm for VAR. Incidents happen far to quickly for referees to make consistently correct calls. During the world cup there were a few incidents where VAR ensured that the correct call was made including one in the game where Germany got knocked out where the replays showed that the forward pass which put an attacker offside actually came from an opposition player. Stuff like that and offsides, I'd rather take a time out and let the ref get a second ( 3rd, 4th....) look. Where it falls down is not so much the VAR itself but the fact that the laws of football ( more so than any other sport i can think of) are so open to interpretation that sometimes a replay only seems to muddy the waters. Tennis and cricket are black and white. Football - lots of grey areas. Classic example in the world cup final and the french penalty. Yes, the croatioan clearly handled the ball, VAR cleared that up, but did he mean it? Should it have been a penalty? Never in my opinion. Even the panel in the studio were split.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 09:47

Good post from 1985Par.

My feeling is that VAR of some sort will be with us for the tournaments where mistakes can cost trophies, reputations and often money.

Imagine losing a cup final to a wrongly given penalty, which TV replays later show clearly a wrong decision has been made.
There will still be matters of interpretation of course.

Was it intentional? Did he or she, dive? Did the goalie infringe the rules by distracting a player?
And so on.

But technology and progress will prevail eventually I think, for the times they are a changing.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: FRED1981  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 10:09

I wonder if Morelos would benefit from VAR ,probably if the SFA were managing the screens.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 10:10

I'm also 99% sure the Balde handball wouldn't be given either πŸ˜‰
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 10:21

I can see why VAR is positive, just like goal-line technology helps get the decisions correct, Would last weeks Liverpool goal be given under the old method? However Referees just like players are Human. There is a split second decision to be made infront of an audience and surrounded by 22 players. No referee will ever get 100% decisons correct just like no player will be 100% accurate with every pass/dribble/shot they take.

I'd prefer if it worked in a similar way to Hawk-eye/Cricket where each team has a certain number of VAR "challenges. If decision is "won" they you keep that challenge.

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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 10:27

I think that leaves the game open to spurious challenges by players or managers trying to disrupt the flow of the game. There'd be plenty of scenarios where you'd be better off losing a challenge to break up the game, especially late on in a match.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 11:46

There really is no end to a certain poster's obsession with Rangers. It's actually quite funny.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 12:00

I think anything which helps to eliminate some terrible refereeing howlers has to be looked at positively. The issues most folk have with it just now is that;

a) it takes too long to arrive at a decision and
b) they still get some decisions wrong anyway.

My solution is simple - take away the ref's final decision. Those watching a game on VAR can only advise the ref, who then wastes a lot of time running over and then agonising over it. Why not just tell him in his ear? That goal was offside. You missed a penalty there, etc.

Of course, the vast majority of referees won't like being stripped of their absolute power, but we need to move with the times. In any case, those watching the game on video are refs too, so why can't they call it?

Quote:

HalbeathRoad, Mon 7 Jan 20:56

Pretty obvious that the Italians would have an issue with VAR in fairness.


Eh, would you care to explain the logic underlying that conclusion, HR?

I can't wait to hear it......

πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚. I’m only having a laugh. I thought you might dive in on that one. πŸ˜‰

Aye, that's not the most original answer I've read when a poster has been asked to explain a controversial statement, but I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt o this occasion, HR. Of course, if you had used a πŸ˜‰ in your original post then no one could possibly have taken exception to it.

I'll be keeping a close eye on your future posts and as I said to mach1 on another thread, I have a 22 stone cousin. You wouldnae like it if he came round and sat on yer heid, trust me......



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Tue 08 Jan 12:00)
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 20:26

Correct call for VAR to give a penalty for spurs v Chelsea




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: chewie  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 20:28

Got it bang on. Big game, much at stake and without it, we would have had a wrong offside decision
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: arpar  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 22:46

Offside from the proper angle that VAR didn't use. If any doubt should stay with the officials decision which was offside.
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 Re: Fans of VAR
Topic Originator: JoshPars4life  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 06:07

Kane was clearly offside before running through something that VAR should have picked up.
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