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 Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 20:36

I am concerned at the level of vitriol in comments that are made, on social media and at the match, between Pars fans and (by some fans) at the players, the manager and the Board/Chairman. In my Saturday capacity as a Match Buddy I had to stand with a G4S steward at the end of the match to stop some fans from encroaching onto the disabled viewing platform in the Norrie Stand to pass on their comments to the manager. It was far from the worst experience of my life, but it wasn't pleasant.

Perhaps part of the problem is that fans who want the management team changed feel they are not being heard by those whose job it is to run the club.

It was to try to bridge this gap that the Supporters' Council was conceived 5 years ago, and built into the governance structure of the club. To begin with it seemed reasonably successful, at least as a means of getting information out from the club and the various volunteer groups. For the last meeting (22 November 2018) a different format was tried, and fans were encouraged to come along and speak face-to-face with the individual Board members. I hope those who did attend felt they were at least listened to.

Unfortunately only around 30 fans turned up to the meeting, so over 99% of Pars fans declined the opportunity to give their views directly to those in authority. The meeting was immediately after the home defeat to Falkirk, and since then the Pars results have been W2 D3 L2 - not great, but nothing to suggest things have suddenly got worse.

The club has also put in place a Supporter Liaison Officer (Drew Main) who can be contacted directly and will respond to any issue put to him by a fan (or group of fans.)

It's probably too late to do anything right now, but does anyone have an idea about how fans and board can come together better in future? Because if the present rupture gets worse there are likely to be serious problems ahead - the way the club is run on a day-to-day basis is heavily dependent on goodwill, volunteers and everyone pulling in the same direction.

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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 21:22

Only so more people could attend, why not have it in legends pre match ?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 22:13

No disabled access to legends. Raymie

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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 8 Jan 22:39

The board need no meetings, councils etc etc etc

Perhaps part of the problem is that fans who want the management team changed feel they are not being heard by those whose job it is to run the club.

That is the line in the above statement which rings!
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: DrumRoad  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 01:57

Changed my mind re this post & deleted it myself

2015/16 League one Winners

Post Edited (Wed 09 Jan 05:26)
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: GG741  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 02:19

I'm distanced from the club, here in Australia, and rely on the press, social media, etc., to understand what is happening, so excuse me if any of the following are just silly:

- Has the Board acknowledged publicly that they (too) are not happy (obviously) with the on-field performances, and that it is fully aware of the feelings of supporters?

- Has the Board publicly stated what it's intentions are, in regard to the Manager, playing group, support staff, etc.?

- Has AJ, at the end of a poor match, grouped with the players on the field and indicated (in full view of the crowd) their own disappointment with their performance? I don't actually know how that would occur, but I cannot believe that the players (or AJ) are satisfied.

Sometimes, being open and honest resolves the escalation of complaints.

As for supporter(s) encroaching onto the disabled viewing platform, I wouldn't mind seeing those banned for a few games to reinforce the expected behaviours.
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 06:15

The current format and timing of the supporters council Meetings are obviously not the relevant vehicle for reaching the people who wish to voice their concerns on the running of the club
I have been to many of these meetings and the normal faces who attend are mainly those who currently volunteer or are closely ascossiated to the various supporters groups
There have been many posts that the meetings should take place on a different day and the probability is that if it was to be held on a match day in the concourse of the away stand (when it is unused or little used) prior to the game at say 11.30 -12.30 then there would be a much better turnout (surely the problems that this creates organisationally could be tackled) this would still allow for all of the pre- match activities to go ahead as normal

Also whilst Drew Main does a good job in being the Liason Officer perhaps this function should be widened out to include representatives of the various supporters clubs (who are not involved in any other fans groups or organisations) they can meet on a regular basis to put forward the rank and file views and to discuss the various issues which are raised, perhaps this group could make recommendations as to how fans matchday misdemeanours should be addressed. The representatives could possibly also be chosen from the various sections of the stadium eg NW rep, Norrie rep, main stand rep

The BOD do as far as I can see want to work as one with the fans, it is therefore only a matter of setting up the correct communication channels which are suitable to the majority of fans and help to connect the normal person in the stand with those on the Board

I’m sure that there will be many suggestions made as a result of this thread which will be workable with a little effort on all sides

The main thing that is currently irking the fan base is the performance on the pitch. If we were performing at a decent level then many of the issues would simply not exist, that I’m afraid is football at our level



Post Edited (Wed 09 Jan 06:17)
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: yvb-par  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 06:46

Excellent post 1970Par.

Many good and valid points.
A supporters council meeting 11:30 on a Saturday ticks all the boxes.
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: steaua  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 08:26

We did have a Federation of Supporters Clubs in the past when we had 26 representatives met once a month to discuss everything to do with the fans pleasures/ displeasures. This was then taken to the Board by the Chairperson / Secretary of the group and discussed and brought back to the Federation. The Secretary who would then inform each club by letter the content of the meeting. This was a very useful exercise, and was beneficial to the fans and the club.
An idea would be to tweak this and renamed , the Federation of DAFC Supporters, OR by a name chosen by the fans and have an initial meeting open to everyone.
This would be a fans group completely separate from the DAFC BOARD. I sometimes think, with this being a fans club, being financed by the fans / + others , it would be an idea to have a certain input as above which would give the fans the feeling of being more involved and not everything coming from the Board. ( I mean no disrespect )
Food for thought.



Post Edited (Wed 09 Jan 08:28)
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 08:31

Good, well considered posts from 1970par and steaua.
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: skbb  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 08:51

Have to agree with Marv and 1970 par. Very good ideas. Sooner the better too.
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: petrie_pants  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 09:06

Replace the manager and stop releasing ridiculous statements and we're not having these conversations IMO.
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: steaua  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 09:17

What statements / conversations ?
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 11:11

will never please everyone and have no doubt the move to a matchday morning will give more ammunition on as to why the manager is focusing on things like that rather than preperations for the game.

I have attended a few events and whilst some things are useful to discuss and see insight into (sports conditioning work etc) I have found myself sitting cringing on numerous occasions at questions from the floor and some of the statements made to an SPFL football manager (regardless of your opinion of him) and for me has put me off attending. Some of the comments above are case and point to that.

As an employee of an organisation you don't get told about everything in the organisation. As a "fan owned" club unless you made a significant investment then you wont be consulted on decisions or be given insights into the running of the club to a granular level. Whilst a season ticket is in monetary terms a significant outlay, you are paying for a service and not as an investment into the club.





Post Edited (Wed 09 Jan 11:23)
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: LuckyTiler  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 11:20

I don’t think we need to put any new meetings, bodies or processes in place for the board to know what the Big Issue for supporters is. Insisting that the supporters go through some official channel - which doesn’t currently exist - begins to look like a diversionary tactic.

The board have had to work through some hard times, on and off the pitch, but in the past we’ve been pretty much united in our aims, so they haven’t had huge conflict with the fans to deal with.

This is new and uncomfortable ground for them, and I appreciate the difficulty: If the position is really that they want shot of the manager but can’t afford to fire him, or don’t know who could replace him, they can hardly come out and say that. That never happens.

But they have to say something. All we’ve had so far is the chairman’s recent statement - and in my view an excessively long and rambling one - about HOW fans express their dissatisfaction. The OP here could be seen to be along the same lines.

We all know what the issue of the day is. Never mind how we express it, can the board please at least acknowledge that it’s concerning them too?
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 11:30

mentioned a couple of times so probably worth addressing in THAT statement Mr McArthur did acknowledge regarding the results of the team.

the statement read: "This is not an attempt to distract from the fact that so far this season, results are not what any of us would have hoped for and that supporters will feel disappointed and frustrated, as I do too. I fully accept that I, the Board and the Manager are all accountable for this."

Maybe we are letting other things cloud memories but remember back to days of David Hay as manager and JC returning when we faced aberdeen the fans actions/reactions were much more vociferous than they were on Saturday. Similarly in celebration to things such as the Martin Hardie Rovers game the celebrations etc were to a level that would cause similar encroachament into areas mentioned (not saying this is acceptable).

All the recent activity seems to have done is drive a massive wedge into the support and causing infighting rather than unity.

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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 11:45

Welcome back Worst/Stevie!
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 15:04

Personally, I think that the existing format of the Supporters Council may well have run its course, and the suggestions made by 1970par and steaua are each excellent and workable.

However, for either suggestion to make progress would require somebody to take upon themselves the setting up and administration of the new arrangements, and the necessary liaison with DAFC. I think Drew Main as SLO should also be involved.

Is anyone willing to pick this up and run with it? If not, I fear nothing will happen (until the next face-off between Board and fans!)

_________________

Support Pars United (costs you nothing) when you shop online with 3100 retailers and insurance firms etc, including Argos, Amazon, John Lewis, Tesco, LV=, O2 etc.
http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/parsalive
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 15:15

In the days of the federation we had about 20 supporters clubs however I am not sure how many we have now. DAFC supporters club, the Lizzie and the Kincardine bus. Are there any more?

matt forsyth
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 15:20

It doesn't have to be just supporters clubs. All pars fans can take part.
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: steaua  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 15:21

I don't think Drew Main should be involved in a Supporters group as he is a Director at DAFC.
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: steaua  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 15:28

That is the theme of my post above. For all supporters of DAFC.



Post Edited (Wed 09 Jan 15:28)
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 15:32

Drew is Chair of the Pars Supporters Trust, and the club's Supporter Liaison Officer. Either post suggests (IMO) that he should have a role of some sort to play in any new arrangement, even if it is only as the channel for communication with DAFC - but of course that would be for whoever is co-ordinating that new arrangement (ie not me!)

_________________

Support Pars United (costs you nothing) when you shop online with 3100 retailers and insurance firms etc, including Argos, Amazon, John Lewis, Tesco, LV=, O2 etc.
http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/parsalive
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: steaua  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 15:46

So if you get a title, you would be entitled to be part of a supporters group set up to let fans discuss stuff with complete impartiality . I apologise in advance if I have read your post wrongly.
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 16:01

steaua, it's just my opinion that the Chair of one of the largest supporter groups (or at least someone representing the PST) should be involved in some way in any arrangement for dialogue between the fanbase and the Board. But I understand if you feel there is a conflict of interest.

Other than starting the thread because I perceived it as an issue, I don't really want to discuss individuals or how any set-up is arranged - I mentioned Drew because he is currently responsible for organising Supporters' Council meetings.

It would be up to whoever organises anything new to make the arrangements that they believe to be in the best interests of the fans and the club.



_________________

Support Pars United (costs you nothing) when you shop online with 3100 retailers and insurance firms etc, including Argos, Amazon, John Lewis, Tesco, LV=, O2 etc.
http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/parsalive

Post Edited (Wed 09 Jan 16:04)
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: steaua  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 16:19

When suggesting a fans group. I was only modelling the format on the Federation set up. Any future group if formed would be open to ALL fans and not just fans affiliated to clubs. I believe the formation of such a group would be beneficial to the fans and the club.
When we had the Federation, we would be invited to a Board meeting and put our items forward, which would take maybe half an hour, we would then leave to let them get on with their meeting. However, if the things did progress, and the Board wanted us to pass the minutes to Drew Main to present them , that is ok.
Just a suggestion.
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 16:45

"The meeting was immediately after the home defeat to Falkirk, and since then the Pars results have been W2 D3 L2 - not great, but nothing to suggest things have suddenly got worse"

Well, they certainly didn't get much better.

Apart from Morton, the only win was against an absolutely dismal pathetic Falkirk team.

Two of the draws were at EEP where we couldn't manage to score in one, and the other was against the newly promoted part time side from being 2-0 ahead at half time.

Losing by an odd goal away to Ross County was not an unexpected world ending result, but the 0-2 against a mediocre (at best) Partick team was very disappointing.

Taking nine points from a possible twenty one suggests things have not suddenly improved.

The Board should have acted well before today, that's the root cause of the fans anger etc.
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: LuckyTiler  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 19:17

Might we now get a more comprehensive statement, covering
- the financial situation regarding early termination of AJ’s contract
- plans, approach, constraints in selecting a replacement?
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 19:27

Almost certainly not, the terms and conditions of AJ and SC settlement will be between themselves and the club accountants
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 19:36

The last three posts (and some previously) have all been about the managerial position. Understandably it's the hot topic right now, but are there not enough threads about it?

This thread (hopefully) was about ways in which dialogue between fans and the Board can (perhaps) be conducted better in future. Some good ideas have come forward, but of course they would need someone to take action on them before they became reality.

_________________

Support Pars United (costs you nothing) when you shop online with 3100 retailers and insurance firms etc, including Argos, Amazon, John Lewis, Tesco, LV=, O2 etc.
http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/parsalive
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 Re: Dialogue at DAFC
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Wed 9 Jan 22:55

Stanza

Why did you feel the need to stand with the G4 steward to stop people using this as as a platform to vent there annoyance at the manager?
As I always use the stairs that come down to this area I have never seen anyone being removed for standing there clapping the team off! However it would appear that as the G4 representatives are allowed to informed fans you aren’t allowed to shout at the manager !
At no point were fan coming down form the Norris close to any disabled fan, so this can be used as a excuse, this just looked to be of over zealous stewards who had probably moved over from the NW. Personally I think following the club decision to remove the manager the fans trying to vent there anger have been proven to common opinion and the the G4 stewards have shown themselves up as heavy handed idiots!
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