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 Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: seagull1  
Date:   Wed 8 May 12:13

Board Statement

Still lots of hard work ahead
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey  
Date:   Wed 8 May 12:57

Makes for a pretty depressing read.

Good luck too getting "walk up" punters to pay an extra £2 per game. Nearly 5 times the rate of inflation !


I wouldn't fancy a poke with that....your blade ma'am
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Wed 8 May 13:06

Quote:

Captain Desmond Fancey, Wed 8 May 12:57

Makes for a pretty depressing read.

Good luck too getting "walk up" punters to pay an extra £2 per game. Nearly 5 times the rate of inflation !


When was the last time the walk up price went up?
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: the saline hill puma  
Date:   Wed 8 May 13:11

Quote:

elvis_lives, Wed 8 May 13:06

Quote:

Captain Desmond Fancey, Wed 8 May 12:57

Makes for a pretty depressing read.

Good luck too getting "walk up" punters to pay an extra £2 per game. Nearly 5 times the rate of inflation !


When was the last time the walk up price went up?


The year we got promoted
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Wed 8 May 13:34

Quote:

the saline hill puma, Wed 08 May 13:11

Quote:

elvis_lives, Wed 8 May 13:06

Quote:

Captain Desmond Fancey, Wed 8 May 12:57

Makes for a pretty depressing read.

Good luck too getting "walk up" punters to pay an extra £2 per game. Nearly 5 times the rate of inflation !


When was the last time the walk up price went up?


The year we got promoted


Same price as Falkirk, Morton, Dundee Utd etc.

No problem with it all.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey  
Date:   Wed 8 May 13:36

"Same price as Falkirk, Morton, Dundee Utd etc.

No problem with it all"

Four wrongs don't make a right. Yes, we're hardly alone but football in this country is hideously overpriced and people just aren't going to pay £20 every other week to watch the dross that is being served up just now.


I wouldn't fancy a poke with that....your blade ma'am
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Wed 8 May 13:41

So you could look at it if we had been going up by inflation for that period would have taken us to roughly £19.40.

Not a kick in the bum from £20.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: seagull1  
Date:   Wed 8 May 14:55

Think we would all like to see cheaper prices. With the lack of decent TV revenue in Scotland maybe makes it harder to drop the prices.
Don’t think the board would put up prices without a fair bit of thought. As mentioned above we are only aligning prices with a few other teams in our league.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: The Lawyer  
Date:   Wed 8 May 15:12

The headline price is just that, a headline price.

As explained in the statement, the club currently only receives around £7-8 per admission after VAT and costs such as stewarding and police are taken into account.

Many other Championship Clubs are already more expensive and no doubt will also be moving their prices.

I'm encouraged to hear of people signing up again for the CCL and renewing season tickets. We are a Community owned club and have no sugar daddy to come to our rescue. It is in our own hands if we want our club to survive and prosper.

Paraid
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 8 May 17:31

Quote:

seagull1, Wed 8 May 14:55

Think we would all like to see cheaper prices. With the lack of decent TV revenue in Scotland maybe makes it harder to drop the prices.
Don’t think the board would put up prices without a fair bit of thought. As mentioned above we are only aligning prices with a few other teams in our league.


The total TV money is actually quite decent - it's the way that it's divided up which leaves a lot to be desired, imo. Why should the clubs finishing 1 and 2 in the Premiership receive so much more than anyone else? I think we all know the answer to that. And so the rich get richer.....

The rest of Scottish football needs to stand up to the two big, greedy bullies, but sadly I don't think they have the cajones to do so. A far fairer distribution would be one in which there was a linear difference in payment between everyone of Scotland's 42 league clubs, based on their final league position.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Wed 8 May 17:41

Quote:

GG Riva, Wed 8 May 17:31

Quote:

seagull1, Wed 8 May 14:55

Think we would all like to see cheaper prices. With the lack of decent TV revenue in Scotland maybe makes it harder to drop the prices.
Don’t think the board would put up prices without a fair bit of thought. As mentioned above we are only aligning prices with a few other teams in our league.


The total TV money is actually quite decent - it's the way that it's divided up which leaves a lot to be desired, imo. Why should the clubs finishing 1 and 2 in the Premiership receive so much more than anyone else? I think we all know the answer to that. And so the rich get richer.....

The rest of Scottish football needs to stand up to the two big, greedy bullies, but sadly I don't think they have the cajones to do so. A far fairer distribution would be one in which there was a linear difference in payment between everyone of Scotland's 42 league clubs, based on their final league position.


I agree with GG Riva on this. Scottish football is suffering as a result of their greed. Planning to include their own Colt teams will ensure the share is even more diluted.

Switching our games to Friday night for TV audiences has severely hit our cash-gate income stream. Is there anyway we can refuse this in future OR make a claim for attendance losses to the powers that be?

DunfyDave
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: cfad  
Date:   Wed 8 May 19:20

Quote:

Captain Desmond Fancey, Wed 08 May 13:36

"Same price as Falkirk, Morton, Dundee Utd etc.

No problem with it all"

Four wrongs don't make a right. Yes, we're hardly alone but football in this country is hideously overpriced and people just aren't going to pay £20 every other week to watch the dross that is being served up just now.


Sweeping statement. Guess it depends on how much of a fan people actually are...
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: chewie  
Date:   Wed 8 May 19:42

It also depends how much disposable income people have for a game of football.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Wed 8 May 19:50

The fact that some people are less able to afford football in no way makes them less of a fan.

Choice also comes into it.

I could perhaps afford to join the Centenary lifeline, but thus far have chosen not to.
That may change if I drop one of my other interests, such as annual golf subscription, but whether I do or not, I will still be a Pars fan as I have been for over 55 years.

I can see this heading into ,we're lucky to have a club territory soon.
That is true, but let's also see a half decent football team next season.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Wed 8 May 19:53

Or how many other adult choices they have to make rather than the childish real fan nonsense folk spout.


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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 8 May 19:59

No one anywhere has mentioned "we're lucky to have a club" apart from mach1 as far as I can see. All I can see is a brutally frank report of the season just passed. None of it can be a surprise. We've all been part of it. Mistakes have been made everywhere. But it's gone. Let's move on.

There are a fair few clubs cutting budgets etc at our level....Not just ourselves. It will all level out with the relegated clubs and United continuing to have the pick of the best players. We need to make ourselves as attractive a club to sign for as possible to set ourselves above similar sized clubs like Thistle, Morton etc.

I'm optimistic we can pull together a half decent squad and I'm willing to give them a chance instead of slaughtering any targets before they've even signed.

COYP

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: cfad  
Date:   Wed 8 May 20:07

Quote:

mach1, Wed 08 May 19:50

The fact that some people are less able to afford football in no way makes them less of a fan.

Choice also comes into it.

I could perhaps afford to join the Centenary lifeline, but thus far have chosen not to.
That may change if I drop one of my other interests, such as annual golf subscription, but whether I do or not, I will still be a Pars fan as I have been for over 55 years.

I can see this heading into ,we're lucky to have a club territory soon.
That is true, but let's also see a half decent football team next season.


My point exactly. If anyone has at least £20 of disposable income each fortnight, it comes down to what they want to prioritise spending that money on. So therefore depends how much of a fan they are and how much watching the team takes priority in their life.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Wed 8 May 20:13

I hope that the club are budgeting for a relatively significant reduction in ticket sales as a result of the increase in prices. I’m also concerned at the reliance on the lifeline money. In my opinion this should be viewed as a bonus. It’s simply not realistic for this to remain at a stable amount going forward.

And to be honest.... we have no business making a significant operating loss. If Alloa can survive in this league then we should be able to manage it too

==================================
"However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light." - Stanley Kubrick
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Wed 8 May 20:14

Some people may not have that money.

Are they less of a fan in your book?

Am I less of a fan despite being behind the team since 1960 or so?

Pointless question really, because you have indeed made your point above.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: parfection  
Date:   Wed 8 May 20:26

The point about people’s disposable income is well made. I’m recently retired and was lucky to have constant, fairly well paid employment all my working life - but a lot of folks don’t. There are many things competing for whatever money is available, and the pricing structure for football isn’t always fan friendly. It’s a very tricky issue for clubs like ours who are mostly reliant on fan input, devoid as we are of (a) generous league sponsorship and (b) a wealthy private benefactor. After our fairly recent brush with oblivion, the watchword was fiscal responsibility above all else. I for one find it reassuring that this message isn’t lost on our board. The message from the chairman is certainly not sparing us the harsh facts but it isn’t dripping in impossible promises either and amen to that say I.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Wed 8 May 20:35

Quote:

pars_andy, Wed 08 May 20:13

I hope that the club are budgeting for a relatively significant reduction in ticket sales as a result of the increase in prices. I’m also concerned at the reliance on the lifeline money. In my opinion this should be viewed as a bonus. It’s simply not realistic for this to remain at a stable amount going forward.

And to be honest.... we have no business making a significant operating loss. If Alloa can survive in this league then we should be able to manage it too


And an owner who has subsidised them for years....people should really understand or think before posting.

Alloas overhead as a club will be minuscule to ours, especially relating to stadium costs.

Not even a comparison
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: chewie  
Date:   Wed 8 May 20:49

Alloa's income will also be minuscule compared to ours. Yet here they are right beside us in the league table thanks to them over-performing and us under-performing. We need to aspire to be like over-performing clubs like Livi, Hamilton etc. Good management got them to where they are now. A good manager makes all the difference in this country. Unfortunately we are closer to the Calamitous Falkirk than we are to the success of Livi.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 8 May 21:10

Can we not all agree last season was terrible and move on?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Livingston Par  
Date:   Wed 8 May 23:17

Any ideas how much this substantial loss is? Presumably we are now in a "loss" position since 2013? I don't get how other clubs such as ICT can have half our gate yet presumably have a similar budget. Is it down to parachute payments/lower stadium costs?

Surprised nobody has mentioned the Challenge Cup. I actually find the tournament a refreshing change but clubs shouldn't be losing money taking part in it. Can we refuse to participate?



Post Edited (Wed 08 May 23:18)
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 8 May 23:35

"And to be honest.... we have no business making a significant operating loss. If Alloa can survive in this league then we should be able to manage it too."

In recent years the Wasps have over performed under Hartley (3 successive seasons in second tier) and Goodwin.

Part time and players training for a couple of hours twice a week and benefitting from key loan players, with crowds of around 1000 except when better supported clubs are the opposition ?

Is that the survival model you wish to aspire to ?
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 8 May 23:58

'It also depends how much disposable income people have for a game of football.'

What a simple statement, but maybe a very true one. Why would anyone come to watch DAFC at EEP on a Saturday afternoon? A walk-up fan, bored of his missus? A man feeling housebound with scrawking weans? A teenager at a loose end? A social misfit in search of an identity? An anorak wanting to visit every ground in the land? It’s a very serious question. If you had £20 disposable income on a Saturday in Dunfermline, would you spend it watching Stevie Crawford’s attempts to get us out of the second tier of Scottish football?

In most cases the answer to my question would be no. Statistics rend to favour my opinion. Other forms of entertainment offer guaranteed happiness of a sort, even if short lived. Reading the latest windy offering from the chairman, a man who never settles for two abstract nouns if three are available, or who can never resist a cliché, then I cannot see how DAFC will attract a wider audience. He speaks corporate language; therefore I assume he is a corporate man, one devoted to maximisation of assets. There is nothing human in his words. He makes excuses and answers to none of his own failings which have been considerable. He sounds like an old Church of Scotland minister from my boyhood preaching platitudes from the pulpit.

We have a healthy group of church elders who are preaching the gospel and giving some of their savings to the club. These same church elders are doing very good missionary work amongst the primary schools in the area, but we are not sustaining a teenage group of supporters who can connect with the club. The whole DAFC football experience is simply too tame. It’s OK for kids, or for pensioners, but where is the pazzaz? The sense of danger. The sense of transgressing the rules? The sense of being young and a bit stupid no doubt, but an enthusiastic Pars fan? No wonder there is no church choir. Not so long ago the chairman told them they were not welcome, to wide acclaim on this forum of retired persons who quailed at the thought of police intervention. So now he is short of money and pleading poverty. But the poverty is in our young people, not in those who he was trying to appease.

As a 14 year old my paper round paid 10/- shillings a week and I could watch the Pars, then a European team, for around 3/6 shillings per game. Could any teenager do that now, if there are any paperboys left of course? And yet the Chairman is seeking sympathy for a shortage of income and apologising for raising gate prices for pensioners! He has not the courage to do this to the season ticket holders who presumably hold too much sway or move in his social circles. They are miles better off than the teenagers who should be the future of DAFC. Maybe he is aiming at the wrong audience.

So we are being reduced to something like a failing church, with frequent pleas to answer to our duties and restore the church roof or contribute to some fund. To buy our manse pew card or season ticket. To build up our Sunday School since the congregation is dwindling. Churches declined when the people running them no longer believed in God. A reasonable judgment in my view, at least until Ritchie comes along to inform me better. We now have a similar situation where a board of directors do not believe in Jock Stein and maybe that is rational too. But I would prefer to resist such defeatism. First question to any director: Do you STILL believe in DAFC and what Jock Stein did?

sammer

Post Edited (Thu 09 May 00:14)
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 9 May 00:40

It just occurs to me that normal business practice when demand falls is to reduce prices and when demand has grown, increase prices. So I just hope the £2 extra isn't going to prove counter-productive.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 9 May 01:24

Quote:

pars_andy, Wed 8 May 20:13

I hope that the club are budgeting for a relatively significant reduction in ticket sales as a result of the increase in prices. I’m also concerned at the reliance on the lifeline money. In my opinion this should be viewed as a bonus. It’s simply not realistic for this to remain at a stable amount going forward.

And to be honest.... we have no business making a significant operating loss. If Alloa can survive in this league then we should be able to manage it too


Did Alloa have to pay for 13 operations?
Did Alloa have to pay off a manager and assistant?
Are Alloa full time?
Would you be happy if we went PT?
Do Alloa have a large stadium to maintain?
........

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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 9 May 06:41

Quote:

PARrot, Thu 9 May 01:24

Quote:

pars_andy, Wed 8 May 20:13

I hope that the club are budgeting for a relatively significant reduction in ticket sales as a result of the increase in prices. I’m also concerned at the reliance on the lifeline money. In my opinion this should be viewed as a bonus. It’s simply not realistic for this to remain at a stable amount going forward.

And to be honest.... we have no business making a significant operating loss. If Alloa can survive in this league then we should be able to manage it too


Did Alloa have to pay for 13 operations?
Did Alloa have to pay off a manager and assistant?
Are Alloa full time?
Would you be happy if we went PT?
Do Alloa have a large stadium to maintain?
........


Happy? pars_andy? Come on now we all know the answer to that one!

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Thu 9 May 07:04

Quote:

Livingston Par, Wed 8 May 23:17

Any ideas how much this substantial loss is? Presumably we are now in a "loss" position since 2013? I don't get how other clubs such as ICT can have half our gate yet presumably have a similar budget. Is it down to parachute payments/lower stadium costs?



ICT made a loss of 800k last year. Will probably be better this year with the cup semi final though.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Thu 9 May 07:33

To all those who are living in the past

Last season has gone, finished, done and dusted. Yes there were probably mistakes made however these need to be learned from before moving on and focusing on the job at hand which is preparing for next season

We need to rally behind the club and look to the future, this is underway and the clear our has happened, thanks to the BOD for an honest update and for spelling our priorities for the coming season

How good is it to see that there are some who are renewing or signing up for the first time to the Lifeline

I once listened to a motivational speaker who was called the SUMO man, he talked about complaining about things that were in the past and about things you cannot influence

SUMO was short for Shut Up Move On

Grumping and griping about last season won’t change anything, everyone (including myself) were bitterly disappointed about how things planned out but let’s put those negative thoughts away now and prepare for the new campaign
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 9 May 08:07

Well said, Kenny.

Some folk feel better for a good moan, but those who have to listen to it never do.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: par-4-life  
Date:   Thu 9 May 08:19

Alloa have a regular income of renting out there park which I’m led to believe brings in a couple thousand per week they also have a wealthy owner compared to us and a couple of generous sponsors. Even tho they are part time I would think they were more financially stable than us
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Thu 9 May 08:48

Coming from Alloa, I know their major sponsors. The sponsor is from probably the richest family in Clackmannanshire. The chairman sold the naming rights of the ground a couple of years ago.
The manager was one of the hardest players in Scotland and keeps himself very fit. He told each of his players to get themselves fit over the summer. They did and it shows in the amount of late goals scored.
As already stated they rent the pitch out where as we have rent training facilities.
At present we are not going down the part time route but Alloa is a great example of how it can be done.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Thu 9 May 09:51

It seems that the only suggestions that are mooted these days are to investigate how the club can reduce expenditure and it is mostly dependent on the ability of supporters to carry out unpaid work or to now pay a bit extra for admission.

Are there no ways we can look at increasing income from either use of the facilities we have, or by even more intensely seeking external investment in the club, whilst retaining a professional grip on the financial situation. Not the unfettered and unscrutinised Masterton situation.

We are publicly told by our Chairmen that some fans are cheating the club by lying or otherwise abusing age privileges on the purchase and use of tickets. This should have been dealt with more tactfully imo, if it is a big problem.

The concept of a community based, fan run club is a noble one and if only all society could be so pure spirited and generous to each other in areas outside of foitball.

That is not the case in the wider world and I think that some associated with the club are missing the point that many football fans simply want to enjoy a decent game and a bit of social banter, without being steeped in all things Pars.
A bit of realism is needed and not some of the criticism that Ross directs to some aspects of the fans behaviour as he has done throughout this season. Sometimes it's best to keep dirty linen unwrapped, just as we shouldn't maybe discuss individual wages and settlements.

I think the message behind the statement is a warning and maybe a complete review of where we are is needed, probably starting with fans, such as myself and many others toning down our aspirations, which is hard to accept having seen the Pars grow from a small entity to a successful provincial club, in footballing terms, which at one time raised the morale and visibility of the whole town, but reality has to prevail if that is no longer possible.

What we must be careful not to do is alienate any fans or put off new fans from joining our social tribe and that is best achieved on the park with a decent match experience.
Just ask any Liverpool, Tottenham or Celtic fans how happy they are right now.
That is not glory hunting btw.
Our aspirations are naturally different but another season like this one could drive a further blow to this once proud club, which was the envy of many others at one time. We need to get a few steps along that road from here on.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: JimMcDAFC  
Date:   Thu 9 May 10:10

I think comparing football attendance with church attendance is really quite reasonable. They are both dropping and finding it hard to attract young people. This is not just pars problem of course but when the punters lose their belief in the product they will drift away. The championship this season was the most competitive league in Scotland this year but was probable the least entertaining for the fans and I think the quality on show was very poor for nearly all if not all the teams.Every team will find its level and if our finances dictate that we are heading for the so called seaside league then so be it after all what s so special about the premier league apart from the money and enjoying the company of the bigot brothers.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: USMac  
Date:   Thu 9 May 15:25

It's a very well written and detailed statement from the Chairman that clearly took a lot of thought from him and the Board. Some say that it's an injection of realism; I think it's rather uplifting because it lays out a clear path.

Many of us have witnessed Ajax's journey through the CL this year and feel sympathy for their loss last night even though they played an English team. They are a very young team with a vision. They paid without fear because they were young and supported by their club and fans, and the club will benefit this summer when a number of the players are sold.

Had we reached the playoffs this season and somehow won promotion, the club's plans to utilize young talent would have needed to be shelved, and the manager would have needed to bring in journeymen in an effort to stave off relegation next season. See last time DAFC was promoted. That would have been a disaster for the club both financially and in its effort to promote young talent.

Instead, the club can look to progress its U20 players by pushing some of them into the first team. Several of them were able to play in first-team games this season, and they and perhaps others may become first-teamers next season. As a result, one can expect that there will be a lot of ups and downs next season relying on young players.

In the long term, however, the players will grow and improve, and the club will benefit if it is able to sell any of them. The club has the perfect management staff in place to support and improve these young players. Now, the fans just need to support the young players and enjoy the ride.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Bigfoot  
Date:   Thu 9 May 15:37

My thoughts on the stadium still remain, we should be looking at how we can build something that is fit for purpose rather than shelling out on an old relic like EEP.

I fully appreciate that we don't own EEP, nor do we have money to invest in a stadium, but surely we need to think about a 5 or 10 year plan to do so.

My thoughts are that we should be looking at Halbeath to a have a shared stadium with Cowdenbeath - perhaps with a combined training facility for all the Fife clubs - which can be rented out in the evening. Providing a stadium, with say 6000 capacity would be more than adequate. Situated next to the P&R to provide good transport links.

If you look at Ross County - I appreciate the training facilities are SFA (?) owned - but they have a fantastic set up which we could/should model?

Jesus saves, but Kirk nets rebound
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Thu 9 May 16:00

Bigfoot i had said similar before.

Land I thoguht be good was the "shepherd" land up near retail park/amazon. Id said 8000 capacity with "safe Standing"

Against shared stadium with other team but a "sports village" similar to pitreavie with gym etc and "training academy" in land around the main stadium would qualify for sports Scotland funding and the more "communities" included can "group" funds and again qualify for additional things such as lottery fundings etc.

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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 9 May 17:40

Why do some fans persist in refernces to Alloa as if comparing like with like ?

As newly promoted part timers (finished 15 points behind the unpromoted Rovers) they were absolutely delighted to stay up, and would have even been happy with a second bottom playoff spot opportunity to preserve their Championship status,

Whereas we had a full time set up with a bigger playing squad which produced a completely awful league campaign where we were lowest scorers over the whole season, including failure to score in 20 of 34 matches.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Rigger Al  
Date:   Thu 9 May 18:22

A very honest report .
What you see is what you get .

Well put together Ross
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Thu 9 May 18:47

Quote:

pars_andy, Wed 08 May 20:13

I hope that the club are budgeting for a relatively significant reduction in ticket sales as a result of the increase in prices. I’m also concerned at the reliance on the lifeline money. In my opinion this should be viewed as a bonus. It’s simply not realistic for this to remain at a stable amount going forward.

And to be honest.... we have no business making a significant operating loss. If Alloa can survive in this league then we should be able to manage it too


What do you mean, regarding the reliance on lifeline money? Do you not think the club should be including that income, when deciding on the budget? As a lifeline contributor, I’d be disappointed if that money was just used as a ‘contingency’ and just sat unspent, if no exceptional costs occurred. Remember we’re talking about roughly £150-200k per year here. That’s a large amount of money for a club of our size, to suggest we shouldn’t be including that in our budget and just view it as a ‘bonus’ is absolutely ridiculous.

My understanding has always been that the intention of the lifeline is to provide additional funds, to help boost the resources available to help the team. It is up to the board how to allocate this (equipment, repairs, player wages etc). I would imagine they would struggle for subscribers, if they used/advertised it as a ‘bonus’/rainy day fund. It absolutely has to be included in any budgeting. Therefore, if there are 900 people paying £20 per month when the budget is decided and this drops to 700 in the course of the season, of course that will have an impact. You can’t then blame the board for that!
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Thu 9 May 21:04

"I fully appreciate that we don't own EEP, nor do we have money to invest in a stadium, but surely we need to think about a 5 or 10 year plan to do so."

You're right, we have no money for that - even a basic ground like St Mirren's 8,000 all seater cost £8 million and Forthbank (2 small stands and 2 small terraces, capacity of under 4,000 cost £3.75 million) - and even if a supermarket was allowed to build at East End Park and wanted to, they aren't going to shell out the millions required. But even at that, let's look at these plans.

"My thoughts are that we should be looking at Halbeath to a have a shared stadium with Cowdenbeath"

So Dunfermline wouldn't have a stadium in Dunfermline and Cowdenbeath wouldn't have a stadium in Cowdenbeath? No ta.


"- perhaps with a combined training facility for all the Fife clubs - which can be rented out in the evening."

Training facilities I can see where you're coming from but who is going to head out to Halbeath for a game of fives when there are plenty of facilities in places where there are actual people and houses (two or three in Dunfermline, 2 in Cowdenbeath, one in Kelty, Dalgety Bay, etc.)

"Providing a stadium, with say 6000 capacity would be more than adequate."

We've had 3 league fixtures (v Dundee Utd twice and v Falkirk once) over 6,000 this season as well as 2 more (v Inverness and v Falkirk).¥of more than 5,000. We also had over 8,000 for the Hearts cup game. Last season we had 3 league games with over 7,000 in attendance (v Dundee Utd twice again and v Falkirk once again), another 2 over 6,000 (v Falkirk and v St Mirren) and another 4 with a crowd of over 5,000 (v Falkirk, St Mirren, Livingston and Dumbarton [sic]). The season before that we had 3 more games over 6,000 and 3 of over 5,000; even in League One the season before we had 2 crowds over 5,000!

" Situated next to the P&R to provide good transport links."

Good transport links to where? People rammed on service buses? Coaches and cars all heading along the one road as well as the bus Park and Ride and local traffic and long distance traffic using the A92? What about fans of both sides who want a drink before the game?
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: StuPar82  
Date:   Thu 9 May 22:01

Quote:

1970par, Thu 09 May 07:33

To all those who are living in the past

Last season has gone, finished, done and dusted. Yes there were probably mistakes made however these need to be learned from before moving on and focusing on the job at hand which is preparing for next season

We need to rally behind the club and look to the future, this is underway and the clear our has happened, thanks to the BOD for an honest update and for spelling our priorities for the coming season

How good is it to see that there are some who are renewing or signing up for the first time to the Lifeline

I once listened to a motivational speaker who was called the SUMO man, he talked about complaining about things that were in the past and about things you cannot influence

SUMO was short for Shut Up Move On

Grumping and griping about last season won’t change anything, everyone (including myself) were bitterly disappointed about how things planned out but let’s put those negative thoughts away now and prepare for the new campaign


Well put.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Thu 9 May 23:42

I’ve worked outside UK for over a dozen years now and one constant question you get asked is ‘What team do you follow?’ When I say DAFC the response, from Brits who are interested in football, is invariably positive. They smile and tell me that is a good club. Some blokes, who have had relatives involved in football at lower levels, speak of the great respect that Jim Leishman and Bert Paton enjoyed across the game. These were two men who had good careers as both players and managers at EEP and I hope Stevie Crawford will become as respected as them in these two roles in due course. Several speak of happy memories visiting EEP and of how it seemed a ‘proper’ club.

But when I read the statements issuing from the Chairman a different picture emerges. To continue my church metaphor from yesterday, it seems as though the DAFC parish is plagued by teenagers throwing stones at the stain glass windows and old age pensioners lifting money from the collection plate. Would he speak that way, washing dirty linen in public as mach1 put it, about his sponsors? Of course he has to be honest about our finances, but he has now opened the floodgates to the dismal jimmies who wallow in austerity and are suggesting stopping the match programme or sharing a ground at Halbeath with Cowdenbeath (a team who have not won a game of significance since 1949 when my uncle played on the left wing.) Maybe we should play all our games during the afternoon and save on floodlights.

Now that we are broke the Chairman is making a virtue out of a necessity by talking about developing ‘young, hungry players.’ Well, you can be young and not good enough. And if being hungry is a requirement Stevie Crawford could go down to the nearest foodbank and pick up few starlets. Don’t forget that the baggage cleared out of EEP last week, deservedly so I think, were all not that long ago ‘young, hungry players’ full of hopes and dreams.

Anyhow I will take young Ben Crawford’s advice and see this as an opportunity to re-establish the link between players, management and fans that was long recognised as a feature of the club. But the Chairman has to do his bit as well.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Fri 10 May 08:18

“What do you mean, regarding the reliance on lifeline money? Do you not think the club should be including that income, when deciding on the budget? As a lifeline contributor, I’d be disappointed if that money was just used as a ‘contingency’ and just sat unspent, if no exceptional costs occurred. Remember we’re talking about roughly £150-200k per year here. That’s a large amount of money for a club of our size, to suggest we shouldn’t be including that in our budget and just view it as a ‘bonus’ is absolutely ridiculous.

My understanding has always been that the intention of the lifeline is to provide additional funds, to help boost the resources available to help the team. It is up to the board how to allocate this (equipment, repairs, player wages etc). I would imagine they would struggle for subscribers, if they used/advertised it as a ‘bonus’/rainy day fund. It absolutely has to be included in any budgeting. Therefore, if there are 900 people paying £20 per month when the budget is decided and this drops to 700 in the course of the season, of course that will have an impact. You can’t then blame the board for that!”

What I’m suggesting is that the lifeline fund is not sustainable at its current level. People were motivated post administration to Chuck everything they had at the club. As time progresses this will inevitably diminish and the board need to plan for that. It’s absolutely disturbing to me that the club made a significant loss last year even with what is essentially free money coming their way. Would the directors run their own businesses in a way which was dependent on donations? I’d far rather they budgeted on income generated by the product instead of praying for handouts to break even.

==================================
"However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light." - Stanley Kubrick
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Boston Red Sox  
Date:   Fri 10 May 09:09

Whilst I am extremely supportive of the board I feel the statement is skewed to detract from the fundamental errors made this year.

They set out a strategic goal for the club, which was promotion, investing in playing staff and a management team which were not fit for purpose. There was no sustained evidence that AJ was the correct manager, given some of the train wreck decisions and tactical ineptitude he showed in the previous season. The board however allowed him to continue and invest during the summer. As was noted crowds diminished and ultimately he was relieved of his duties at an undisclosed cost to the club. The appointment of Crawford, pre planned for some time, was not the correct one at the time. He knew the players (and would have been aware of issues behind the scenes) however put out a team which lost to Raith and ultimately cost the club more money in the cup. Again crowds were down.

It is way too easy to cite people abusing the season ticket system as a significant cause of our losses. One has to assume that if this is the case then it has not just started this season and we made small profits in the preceding seasons.

Sometimes it’s just better to hold your hands up and say we tried and got it completely wrong, it would certainly carry a lot more good will with me.


Same rules apply
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Fri 10 May 09:40

I agree with much of the post from sammer above, but Cowdenbeath did win one significant game in recent years when they outplayed us in the playoffs in 2014 and condemned us to stay in Div 1.
That was when Jim Jefferies, inexplicably didn't start Husband or play Morris.

Sorry to bring up that sad chapter. I think that was my most disappointing game of the last ten years.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Fri 10 May 13:50

Quote:

pars_andy, Fri 10 May 08:18

What I’m suggesting is that the lifeline fund is not sustainable at its current level. People were motivated post administration to Chuck everything they had at the club. As time progresses this will inevitably diminish and the board need to plan for that. It’s absolutely disturbing to me that the club made a significant loss last year even with what is essentially free money coming their way. Would the directors run their own businesses in a way which was dependent on donations? I’d far rather they budgeted on income generated by the product instead of praying for handouts to break even.


But they don’t ‘rely’ on this money and are not ‘dependent’ on this money to get by. The club would still function without this income, just on a vastly reduced budget.

It would be idiotic to be receiving this money and not include it in the budget. As a contributor, I would not be happy at all if we had a season like this and discovered that the board had decided not to spend the lifeline money and posted a profit instead.

I, like many others, am happy to pay £20 per month, as I’m well aware that the more people contribute to this, the more resources are available. This should result in a stronger team on the park. However, I’m also aware that this is football and money doesn’t equal success. For every great signing, we might get 5 duds. But the more money available, the more likely we are to be able to afford a decent player.

To answer your question, I doubt the directors would run their own businesses in a way that was dependent on donations. However, they’re also not running DAFC to be dependent on donations. This is a valid income stream and I honestly don’t understand how you can suggest we ignore/set aside £150-200k per year as a safety net, given how significant that amount of money is to a club of our size.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Fri 10 May 15:21

There seems to be a parent / child relationship with the fans in each of the Chairman’s messages. Maybe they read as a rallying call to the author but it does strike me as odd that there’s always a bad fans dig whether it’s abuse of concessions or the one sided take on the lamentable and one sided Williamson’s burd incident etc etc.

If your worried about concessions get a laminator and have a concession membership card with photo made up when people get that category of season ticket. A quick browse shows a laminator costs £13 and then £1.26 per 100 pouches. Then use a concession turnstyle and show the steward your card - even if steward only checks a sample it’s a deterrent for sharing season tickets with those not entitled - seems better to put in place controls than wringing hands for having terrible supporters


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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Fri 10 May 15:23

P wrote:

> There seems to be a parent / child relationship with the fans
> in each of the Chairman’s messages. Maybe they read as a
> rallying call to the author but it does strike me as odd that
> there’s always a bad fans dig whether it’s abuse of
> concessions or the one sided take on the lamentable and one
> sided Williamson’s burd incident etc etc.
>
> If your worried about concessions get a laminator and have a
> concession membership card with photo made up when people get
> that category of season ticket. A quick browse shows a
> laminator costs £13 and then £1.26 per 100 pouches. Then use
> a concession turnstyle and show the steward your card - even if
> steward only checks a sample it’s a deterrent for sharing
> season tickets with those not entitled - seems better to put in
> place controls than wringing hands for having terrible
> supporters
>
>


It's definitely us and them, the chairman takes responsibility for the season and then tells us we have to pay for his errors.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Sat 11 May 00:33

Or alternatively, the chairman acknowledges that prices could have been increased in previous seasons (which would have been the right decision IMO as the club was performingly reasonably well) but the Board decided not to do so, thereby saving fans money. Unfortunately the day of reckoning has come when the team has performed poorly.

So yes, supporters have to pay to support their club, at a rate comparable with supporters of other Championship clubs.The only other option is a massive investment of new funds from somehere, and I'm struggling to think where that might be from or what the quid pro quo might be.

BTW, I believe any losses may have been minimised by further injections of their own cash by Board members and others, so it's not only the rank-and-file supporters who are feeling the pain.

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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sat 11 May 07:14

If your belief that Board members may have injected further cash of their own to minimise the losses is correct, then that is a fine thing and to be welcomed.

Or is it further masking the seriousness of the financial viability of the club at present.

None of the current situation is giving a warm feeling about our future, for me and I do fear for the long term viability of our operating model as a full time club with our large running costs, which have been highlighted before.

Get a letter to Jeff Bezos soon and I'm only half joking. Amazon East End Park may be our salvation.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: AlfonzoBonzo  
Date:   Sat 11 May 07:38

Sorry to be pedantic but, if board members gave cash injection, it wouldn’t reduce the loss in real terms, or on the accounts. It’d likely just be a directors loan and would only aid cash flow

Show us yer....
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Sat 11 May 08:33

Would not like to start going down the road of borrowing money that may never be likely to be paid back.

We need to remember that our directors are unpaid volunteers and any shares in DAFC they may hold are valuable in nostalgia but worthless in value.

They are also human and although mistakes were made, we need to keep it in context. They have owned it and simply being honest with us.

I am a director. I could not do what they do. Under the pressure of appeasing so many opinions, budgets and personal requirements I am humbled by the voluntary work they carry out.

DunfyDave
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: AlfonzoBonzo  
Date:   Sat 11 May 09:16

Exactly. And just to add: it’s not their responsibility to give the club money if the club needs it

Show us yer....
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Sat 11 May 09:49

Alfonso, I am not an accountant, but if there is an urgent need to meet an unforeseen cost which is then met by a donation from someone then that would surely reduce the loss on the accounts?

I'm only speculating, I don't know if that happened.

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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Sat 11 May 10:00

Quote:

AlfonzoBonzo, Sat 11 May 09:16

Exactly. And just to add: it’s not their responsibility to give the club money if the club needs it


As a community club its all our responsibility to help if we can.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 11 May 10:01

If it were a donation it would reduce the loss; if it were a loan which was ultimately repayable it would not reduce the loss. Both would improve cash flow though.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Sat 11 May 10:03

Quote:

Stanza, Sat 11 May 09:49

Alfonso, I am not an accountant, but if there is an urgent need to meet an unforeseen cost which is then met by a donation from someone then that would surely reduce the loss on the accounts?

I'm only speculating, I don't know if that happened.


Hey Stanza

Point is short-term fix. The loan would have to eventually be repaid so it is a band-aid remedy.

Ultimately revenues would have to be improved or increased (or expenses decreased) to have a long term prudent approach.

Our current board have their work cut-out as they have to budget / speculate "in advance of a season" what they prudently expect footfall / revenues to be in order to set budgets.

Not an easy task and I am an accountant.

DunfyDave
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: AlfonzoBonzo  
Date:   Sat 11 May 11:03

Stanza - a donation would be seen as ‘profit’ and minimise loss. A director typically wouldn’t (and shouldn’t) donate. They’re more likely to ‘loan’.
This would not have an impact on profit and loss, but would reflect on the balance sheet. Is it a directors obligations? No. Is it likely they’d loan (with the expectation of being repaid) to cover a cash flow? Probably, if they had available funds and confidence they’d be repaid.

Show us yer....
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: AlfonzoBonzo  
Date:   Sat 11 May 11:06

Just to add. A loss isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Accountants can create a loss which can help a business. What is a problem, is if you can’t meet you operational costs and have cash flow issues as a result. That’s when you have a real problem

Show us yer....
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 11 May 17:15

A negative profit is not helpful for any club that is still emerging from a recent(ish) administration.

I would think that cash flow is a major issue, especially as there is no matchday income for many weeks ahead.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sat 11 May 17:29

That why VEE I bought my season early this year, last year I bought it just before the season started.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sat 11 May 17:29

It's also worth pointing out that because of the sensible way the club has been managed, a cash reserve has been built up. Although a loss is never a good thing there might not have been a need for any additional funds to be put into the club.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: AlfonzoBonzo  
Date:   Sat 11 May 17:58

Veteran. A loss can be a good thing if it minimalises or eliminates tax liability. Any smart accountant will do this as a matter of course. I’m not sure why you would say that’s not helpful

Show us yer....
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: SergioDuarte  
Date:   Sat 11 May 18:16

What an absolutely horrific statement that is. A few sentences would have been suffice . “We are screwed financially because we gave AJ a two year deal and he bought utter duds . Sorry, oh and prices are going up by £2!”
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 11 May 18:36

"Veteran. A loss can be a good thing if it minimalises or eliminates tax liability. Any smart accountant will do this as a matter of course. I’m not sure why you would say that’s not helpful"

I'm no accountant, however I can't see how a loss incurred by DAFC for season 2018/19 is anything other than bad news all round.

How can it be helpful in the club's financial circumstances running on from administration ?
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: mach1  
Date:   Sat 11 May 18:47

It isn't a good thing for us.

It's what businesses sometimes do as stated to avoid or minimise tax bills, but is only helpful if your business is otherwise healthy and is predicted to do better next tax year.

That is not I believe the situation at our club.

We are just running at a loss sadly, no matter what way you want to spin things.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: AlfonzoBonzo  
Date:   Sat 11 May 19:19

VE. It depends how a loss is constructed. If we’re making operational profit, but a loss is created by depreciation and other write offfs, that is only a good thing for a business. Any bank or creditor wouldn’t have an issue with that. I’m not saying that’s the case, but that’s how a loss isn’t generally always a bad thing

Show us yer....
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 11 May 19:41

I'm pretty sure the club has sufficient tax losses brought forward from previous years to negate the need to 'contrive' a current loss for tax purposes.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: AlfonzoBonzo  
Date:   Sat 11 May 19:55

Did they carry that forward? Genuinely don’t know but assumed that’s have been wound up in the admin. And for the record, I haven’t suggested that we contrive any loss. Just that a loss isn’t always a bad thing in general business terms. I have no idea what, or how severe the losses are, same as any other punter in here. I was discussing general theory

Show us yer....
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 11 May 20:56

As the company was in administration, not liquidation, it's the same entity, so any tax losses incurred pre-administration are still available to offset against future profits. I recall the accumulated tax losses were over £20m a few years ago so having a possible tax bill is the least of our problems.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 11 May 20:58

"I was discussing general theory."

Which, I suspect doesn't apply in DAFC's case - the club has lost/is losing money in reality.

No amount of spin or creative accounting from the beancounters can change that I'm thinking.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Sat 11 May 21:11

I think any football club other than those who can routinely survive in the top flight will be a financial labour of love.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: AlfonzoBonzo  
Date:   Sat 11 May 21:12

I guess we’ll find out soon

Show us yer....
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Neebur  
Date:   Sat 11 May 22:31

A substantial loss is concerning irrespective of of how its constructed.Also dont see how it can be deemed the club has been managed sensibly when you read the statement
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 11 May 22:34

A lot of things happen in football which can't be foreseen unfortunately.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 12 May 00:57

Quote:

Neebur, Sat 11 May 22:31

A substantial loss is concerning irrespective of of how its constructed.Also dont see how it can be deemed the club has been managed sensibly when you read the statement


3 years of profits and improvement in league position and an increase in revenue off the park followed by a bad season where a lot of the losses were outside of the boards control but there was a cash reserve to cover them and you dont think that's beem sensible for the most part?

We didn't chuck money we dont have at players in January and now we're reducing the playing budget as we've not met the targets that allow that to be sustainable.

Yeah its disappointing that results have been poor but the board cant guarantee a winning side and have made the changes that needed to be made, including a change in playing staff strategy.

What is not sensible in what the board has done?
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 12 May 01:15

Suspect Neebur is fishing

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: DAFC_90  
Date:   Sun 12 May 08:51

What is not sensible in what the board has done?

Wasting a boatload of money to put Crawford and kronies in place ,to name one
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 12 May 09:24

In terms of severance for AJ and the backroom staff we've got no idea what the severance payment was. The two year deal may have had no impact on the payment as there could have been a fixed termination payment regardless of how long was left on the contract. It's highly unlikely the deal would have been paid up in full as some people seem to think as that's not really done at this level.

I actually wouldn't have minded if AJ had seen out the season but I wasnt surprised when he was relieved of his position as we were struggling to string two wins together at any point in the season. The board obviously felt a change was needed to try and hit the top four and quite a few folk on here agreed so paying the termination clause isnt exactly a daft idea in that scenario.

I can't say I was overly thrilled by the appointment of SC either but then again I didn't fancy 99% of the names banded about on here. It looks like he's a potentially cheaper option (at least not spending money we don't have) but this is going to be the season to judge him. He's got a tough job on his hands especially with his playing budget being cut. Whether he's up to it only time will tell.

Any managerial appointment is a risk but SC was obviously available, knew the team, knew the board's vision on changes that needed to be made and was in budget so from that perspective theres a bit of logic there. On the risk side he's obviously fairly inexperienced and his previous managerial record isnt the most inspiring.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 12 May 09:32

^^^^ If only every poster on here was as rational, intelligent and objective as lpf. ☺



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 12 May 10:04

Not often I get accused of being any of that so I'm definitely due you a pint in the unlikely event I ever meet you!
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 Re: Statement from the chairman
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Sun 12 May 14:09

I would agree with lpf comments. I am not sure however that the poor performance this season can wholly be laid at the door of AJ. There are many reasons and the players should take some responsibility also. He may have signef tbem but probably lost players he wanted to keep at the start of the season. It also depends on the conditions of his contract. Was it to get the club back up to the premiership. If so, the direction of the club now seems to have changed to development of younger players based on our financial position. Very often issues are due to circumstances, processes and constraints, rarely are they due to an individual.The club is where it is. The BOD have to manage the reality of the situation. It may take a few years to get back to the top flight. The challenge would be to stay there. I wish all associated with the club the best of luck in their endeavour and will continue to support the club.
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