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 Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 19 Jun 22:49

As far as I can gather the new rule will be applied next season, so in all games in Scotland it will be left to the officials to decide whether the keeper was off the line if the kick is missed. No TV replays will be available. It used to be that keepers weren't allowed to move their feet at all then they could move sideways but not forward. Most refs turned a blind eye except in the most blatant cases. Now it seems keepers must have part of one foot on the line when the kick is taken. They can't stay behind the line apparently. Can you imagine what will happen if it's strictly applied at a penalty shoot-out?
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: Livingston Par  
Date:   Wed 19 Jun 22:56

Starting to hate football tbh this and VAR are a joke

And why would you want to be behind the line? Sorry if I'm being thick here! I probably am ;)



Post Edited (Wed 19 Jun 22:58)
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 19 Jun 23:06

I can only imagine they want to discourage keepers from starting behind the line and having forward momentum when the kick is taken, They seem to want to stack the odds even farther in favour of the penalty-taker.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 19 Jun 23:07

Being behind the line gives the goalkeeper momentum to advance meaningfully as the ball is struck. It puts him on the same basis as the penalty kicker who is moving as he shoots.


I think goalies should be allowed to advance whenever the kicker begins his run, just as they would be during normal play.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: Livingston Par  
Date:   Wed 19 Jun 23:12

I agree Sammer the goalie already had a hard job to save a pen.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 03:33

I think goalies should be allowed to do what they like at penalties. Would be far more entertaining...

:)
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 06:52

Robinson would have been in trouble with this new rule.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 07:24

Goalies have always meant to be on the line and we’re not allowed to move until the kick was taken for years.
Worked fine in the old days




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 07:57

It worked because referees used discretion in applying it, Raymie. It used to be the conversion rate of penalties was about 75% which meant the goalies had a fair chance of saving them. If these new interpretations are applied as strictly as they have been in this tournament I suspect the conversion rate will be over 90% which favours the kickers too much in my opinion. A lot of penalties which are awarded don't actually deny a goal-scoring opportunity so I think the keepers should be given a reasonable chance of saving them.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 09:09

To redress the balance a wee bit maybe VAR should look at the encroachment of outfield players into the penalty area when the kick is taken.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 09:20

With this new enforcement of arms in un-natural positions and clever players playing the the ball to arm already and now keepers being penalised by tiny margins by VAR starting to turn the game into a farce.

Teams are going to start looking more to get penalties as opposed to putting the ball in the net.

17 from goal defender runs over with arms out flick it up and boom penalty and the keeper to scared to move in case he gets a yellow card.

Be as well putting 3 keepers on the bench!
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: jojo  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 09:35

Will VAR ask for a retake if a penalty is scored if keeper off line ! Or is that deemed keeper seeking to gain advantage and losing.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: ZiggyB  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 09:38

RM I was just saying that to Nipper last night. What's going to happen when it comes to the knock out stages and extra time and penalties and yellow cards / red cards getting dished out to keepers willy nilly? By the time we get to the finals there will be no eligible keepers left to play Grrr
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 11:04

If a keeper stands behind the goal line - is that not leaving the field of play without the referee's consent ?

Too technical ?

Just an observation.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 11:22

Probably too technical. Players leave the field of play all the time without permission. Say when taking a corner or a shy.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 11:26

No - in these cases they have always had the referee's implicit permission when the award is made.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 11:45

I wasn't aware this was what VAR was being introduced for.Several things annoy me about the penalty retakes so far(not just in the Scotland game)

All 3 penalties missed were poor penalties and that is why they were missed-nothing to do with the goalie being a few centimeters off the line. The keeper didn't save them because she gained an unfair advantage.None of the players who have missed have claimed for a retake.Surely the few centimetres 'advantage' is nullified as the keeper's reaction time is reduced.Unless the keeper imparts backspin when they make a save it is now surely impossible to tip it round the post?


Not only do they get to retake it but they get to retake it against a keeper who is petrified to move at all in case they get a red card.Players will wise up to this and we will see appeals every time a penalty is missed.

Why is VAR being used for this?-I understand the argument of the pro-VAR contingent that argue that some decisions are hard to make due to the pace of the game and possibility of a restricted view. Here we have a scenario when there is both a referee and a linesman, a stationary ball, a clear view and only 2 players to watch-why bother with on-field refs if that's the case? If the keeper makes an obvious discretion the ref can surely call it.I understand that under the letter of the law it's a retake but minor discretions take place in games all the time-hardly a game goes by where you couldn't pick out a foul throw or a free-kick being taken from the wrong place.The keepers movements so far haven't made a material difference to the outcome of the penalties imo. The French penalty didn't even hit the target!

Penalty shootouts could become farcical-how long before we see an outfield player in goals for one after a keeper gets sent off mid shootout? Penalty shootouts could go on for ages with retakes.


Watch these penalty saves-nearly every one is a retake(There are some belting saves in there too!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-GulyjGt1Y



Post Edited (Thu 20 Jun 12:58)
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 11:46

It's as if the recent changes in the interpretation of the laws regarding handball in the box and goalies moving at penalties were dreamt up by a firm of management consultants who have never played the game and have no feeling for the game who were asked by FIFA to come up with a couple of ways of increasing the number of goals scored in a match.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: Tribbiani  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 11:50

One thing that would help keepers stay on their line is stopping players from stuttering their run up. That way they can set themselves and move based on the forward momentum of the penalty taker.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 11:55

OK VE, a player is running up the line and to avoid a tackle he hurdles a leg and it takes him off the field of play. Did the ref give him permission? Anyways that isn't why the goalie isn't allowed to stand behind the line.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 12:38

"OK VE, a player is running up the line and to avoid a tackle he hurdles a leg and it takes him off the field of play. Did the ref give him permission?"

Nothing illegal there if play is in progress.

Remember this incident ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePFjXxbJdz0
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: Bigfoot  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 14:04

I used to be a GK coach and drummed into the keepers to get forward momentum and to close the distance down to the striker as quickly and as early as possible. The use of VAR is completely ruining the art of goalkeeping.


Principally it reduces the target area, whilst as others have said, means that any parry has a sporting chance of getting round the post.

I suspect the VAR in these situations is more to do with the American market who need to see goals (remember the proposals to make the goals bigger?). This and the fact that, as the product, it is fast becoming sterile as teams start off defending the 0 against their name rather than trying to win.

Football is being more and more sanitised and teams are neutralising each other.

That all being said, Scotland should really have been able to see out a 3-0 lead with 17 minutes to go.

Jesus saves, but Kirk nets rebound
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 15:27

If VAR confirms an infringement, how can it be a negative initiative ?
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 15:45

The English Premier League have said today that they won't be using it in these scenarios so they are clearly against VAR in this instance-common sense prevails.It seems every country can use their own version of it-chaos looms in the European competitions when clubs from different countries will be used to different versions of it and some countries won't have used it at all.


Keepers should just build extensions onto the heels of their boots-problem solved from their perspective :)



Post Edited (Thu 20 Jun 15:50)
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 16:53

I thought we were moving away from double punishments. Isn't the retake enough?

Most penalty saves will now result in a booking and a retake with the keeper too scared of a red, so a near definite goal. They'd be as well just awarding a goal and save 10 minutes of wasted game time.

Not a booking if off line and penalty scored? Seems a bit inconsistent.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 17:10



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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 18:31

VAR seems to be being used to check on goalkeepers but not on other players who are just as guilty of encroaching into the penalty area. If it was applied strictly, I suspect there would have to be umpteen retaken penalties before the law was adhered to.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 18:50

Wasn't aware of the illegal feinting

Post Edited (Thu 20 Jun 18:51)
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 19:52

"Not a booking if off line and penalty scored? Seems a bit inconsistent."

Not at all - if the kicker, or any of his teammates, have not infringed, why should they be penalised by the goal being disallowed ?

Same logic as goal standing where defending side encroach, but the kicker and his teammates have committed no offence.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: doctordandruff  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 19:56

You cant leave the pitch without the refs permission. You are counted as on it even if you aren't, otherwise the goalie would spend most of them game behind the line and defenders stepping off constantly to make players offside.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 20:25

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 20 Jun 19:52

"Not a booking if off line and penalty scored? Seems a bit inconsistent."

Not at all - if the kicker, or any of his teammates, have not infringed, why should they be penalised by the goal being disallowed ?

Same logic as goal standing where defending side encroach, but the kicker and his teammates have committed no offence.


You've clearly missed my point.

If it's a bookable offence to step off the line when facing a spot kick, why should it make any difference if the penalty was saved our not?

Not that I agree with a card being shown in either case.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: Parsweep  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 20:43

If it's a booking for a keeper being inches off their line in regulation play , I assume the same laws will apply during penalty shoot outs . Wonder how many sending offs there will be .
Reckon they've made a rod for their own backs .

Bobvo
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 23:49

I found this on the BBC Sport website re VAR and encroachment:-

The VAR can only penalise "encroachment by an attacker or defender who becomes directly involved in play if the penalty kick rebounds from the goalpost, crossbar or goalkeeper".
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 13:33

"You've clearly missed my point."

Right, got you now Pars fan.

The Laws are designed so that the offending team does not gain any advantage as a result of breaking them.

OK, that sounds obvious - but if the keeper infringes at a penalty and a goal is scored he/his team has gained no advantage, therefore no caution.

On the other hand, if a goal is not scored (regardless of where the ball ends up) the keeper has gained an advantage by infringing.
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 17:16

Changing the rules mid tournament!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48723902
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 17:19

"Scotland was robbed" posts incoming!!! 🤣



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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 17:37

No change during normal 90 minutes and extra time - so it would have had no effect in the draw v Argentina.

Has any keeper been booked so far in a penalty shoot out scenario ?
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 Re: Goalies at penalties
Topic Originator: SergioDuarte  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 17:38

Fortunately it’s only woman’s football but that’s still a complete bummer. If this happened in the men’s game there would be rioting in the streets.
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