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 Offside decision
Topic Originator: nick_dafc1  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 17:13

For all the fans giving the ref and linesman abuse for allowing the free kick for Nisbet offside to be taken in our half in the lead up to their goals.

From the offside laws

If an offside offence occurs, the referee awards an indirect free kick where the offence occurred, including if it is in the player’s own half of the field of play.

Nisbet was offside in theyre half but the offence only occured when he came back into our half to go for the ball.

The ref was correct
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 17:15

Just said as much in the match thread. It's not as if this is a new law either, but you still get folk going mental and claiming the officials don't know the rules!
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 17:35

I think its irrelevant in any case whether he took a couple of yards. We have to make our own luck.
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: wulliepar57  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 18:28

it is irrelevant and you have to make your own luck
but we have no chance of this as we are not creative enough
no tactics, no formation , we just run about like headless chickens !
and Paton is no leader and i am sure if he wasn't captain he would be dropped as he keeps giving the ball away , slows things down and has absolutely no pace
and as a team we are at present very Naive
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 18:29

''From the offside laws

If an offside offence occurs, the referee awards an indirect free kick where the offence occurred, including if it is in the player’s own half of the field of play.''

How can offside 'occur' in your own half of the field? Surely the offence 'occurs' at the point where the attacker is in front of the last defender, not at the point he runs back to? The Laws of the Game are farcical now. In trying to simplify things they just make them ridiculous.
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 18:32

I agree wulliepar. Never looked like scoring today. Its been the same for the last few games. Lets play for a nil-nil draw every game until we get points on the table.
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 18:33

wee eck wrote:

> ''From the offside laws
>
> If an offside offence occurs, the referee awards an indirect
> free kick where the offence occurred, including if it is in the
> player’s own half of the field of play.''
>
> How can offside 'occur' in your own half of the field? Surely
> the offence 'occurs' at the point where the attacker is in
> front of the last defender, not at the point he runs back to?
> The Laws of the Game are farcical now. In trying to simplify
> things they just make them ridiculous.

Was just going to post the same. If you can’t be offside in your own half then there is no offence, the rules contradict themselves.
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 19:03

Personally think offside should be scrapped.

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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: 1985Par  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 19:27

"Personally think offside should be scrapped."

I 'd at least like to see this idea experimented with. Some will say that is crazy. Personally, I think stopping a game to have a computer draw a line across a screen to determine if a player is a baw hair infront of another is crazy. It's also crazy that this only happens on some games. It's also crazy that good goals are regularly chopped of and rob teams of victories like what happened at Arbroath last night. I don't think that scrapping offside is as bizarre as trying to enforce it.
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: CrossPar  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 19:29

Quote:

Indiapar, Sat 14 Sep 18:32

Lets play for a nil-nil draw every game until we get points on the table.


Shut the door after you when you leave as you will be the last one.
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 19:58

How often are you watching nothing happen then theres a break and a wee bit excitement and the friggin whistle goes. Probably the biggest cause of abuse and anger directed at officials too.
Football would be much more exciting - and pleasant if they scrapped it.

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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 20:30

Would it make for more attractive football if offside were scrapped? Wouldn't strikers stay as far up the pitch as possible and defenders would have to mark them? Some of the skills of the game like slick, quick passing and dribbling to outwit defenders would be diminished I think. Haven't there been experiments with no offside which didn't really work?
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 21:03

I don't know about that but all I know is when we played fitba at playtime there was nae offside. Naebody sat on the opposite goal line. There was plenty stramash and every game had both sides in double figures in a 15 minute game. 😉

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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 21:04

100% agree
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 14 Sep 21:09

No refs either would be an improvement.
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 15 Sep 08:59

Years ago there was an experimental revised offside rule in the Dryborogh Cup - a line was added parallel to the goal line 30 yards away.

Attackers could only be offside within the new area.

It wasn't considered a success - opportunists like Bobby Lennox (for example) simply loitered near the line waiting for the long ball pass.

If you scrap offside altogether then that's what would be created - the big punt scenario.........route one.



Post Edited (Sun 15 Sep 09:00)
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: KilsythPar  
Date:   Sun 15 Sep 11:31

Pretty sure the ref was explaining the offside decision to Shields at the final whistle.
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Mon 16 Sep 12:48

Fans attending and not knowing the laws shocker.

Had a player telling me on Saturday any handball is a freekick/pen now regardless of intent... Just no words.

If only people used IFAB as a source and not ALan shearer on MOTD as the "oracle" for laws of the game.

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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 16 Sep 13:26

I've had a look at the change in the handball Law, PuP, in relation to Saturday's game. I can only conclude that either the ref thought Devine's handball was deliberate or, he didn't think it was deliberate, but the position of his hand made his body unnaturally bigger. I didn't think either was the case. It seemed to me the ball bounced up and hit his hand which was in a natural position. The ball striking the Alloa player's arm when he was stretching to block a shot last week seemed a more obvious penalty under the Laws than Saturday's one.

I don't see how the change in the Law is an improvement as it leaves the definition of 'unnaturally bigger'open to interpretation. The example quoted referred to arms above a player's head but that's easier to explain than arms held away from a player's side. The get-out for a ball hitting a player's hand directly from another player close by is also open to wide interpretation.
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Mon 16 Sep 13:43

A good article on the history of offside that explains its evolution over the years and its application in a modern context.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2010/apr/13/the-question-why-is-offside-law-genius
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Mon 16 Sep 17:17

4 linesmen would work. If both linesmen don't put the flag up for offside then play goes on

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Wed 18 Sep 16:14

"I've had a look at the change in the handball Law, PuP, in relation to Saturday's game. I can only conclude that either the ref thought Devine's handball was deliberate or, he didn't think it was deliberate, but the position of his hand made his body unnaturally bigger. I didn't think either was the case. It seemed to me the ball bounced up and hit his hand which was in a natural position. The ball striking the Alloa player's arm when he was stretching to block a shot last week seemed a more obvious penalty under the Laws than Saturday's one.

I don't see how the change in the Law is an improvement as it leaves the definition of 'unnaturally bigger'open to interpretation. The example quoted referred to arms above a player's head but that's easier to explain than arms held away from a player's side. The get-out for a ball hitting a player's hand directly from another player close by is also open to wide interpretation."

Agree wording makes things very ambiguous. for me Saturdays decision falls into - The ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player who is close/near given how close the attacker was and the touch. Arm out infront of the body is likely to be seen as making un-naturally bigger rather than saying he deliberately looked to handball to gain possession of the ball. Comes back the the "natural silouette" and an arm outstretched infront of the body (although "natural" to the body shape of running) extends body outline by 2ft.

"Deliberate handball remains an offence
The following ‘handball’ situations, even if accidental, will be a free kick:
The ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player’s hand/arm
A player gains control/possession of the ball after it has touches their hand/arm•and then scores, or creates a goal-scoring opportunity
The ball touches a player’s hand/arm which has made their body unnaturally bigger
The ball touches a player’s hand/arm when it is above their shoulder (unless the player has deliberately played the ball which then touches their hand/arm)

The following will not usually be a free kick, unless they are one of the above situations:
The ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player who is close/near
The ball touches a player’s hand/arm which is close to their body and has not made their body unnaturally bigger
If a player is falling and the ball touches their hand/arm when it is between their body and the ground to support the body (but not extended to make the body bigger)
If the goalkeeper attempts to ‘clear’ (release into play) a throw-in or deliberate kick from a team-mate but the ‘clearance’ fails, the goalkeeper can then handle the ball"

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 Re: Offside decision
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 18 Sep 16:34

Thanks for that, Pup, but I'm still confused. I think players and coaches are too. I notice some defenders now hold their hands behind their back when in the penalty box, presumably so as not to fall foul of the 'unnaturally bigger' interpretation, but there's nothing more unnatural than trying to play football with your arms in that position.
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