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 League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 22 Sep 06:59

I'm of the opinion that no team should lose to another in the same league by a huge margin, but it does occasionally happen when one team play brilliantly and their opponents are poor, as Man City and Watford showed yesterday. From the highlights, Watford were lucky the final score didn't run to double figures.

There have been a few I remember down the years. Man U beat Ipswich 9-0 and Arsenal 8-2, I think and in the early 70s, Don Revie's arrogant but brilliant Leeds took 7 or 8 off Southampton with former Par, Eric Martin, in goal. Luckily for him, Leeds preferred to showboat for the last 20 mins, rather than add to their tally.

Closer to home, I remember the Pars putting 8 past Brechin, but my favourite high scoring memory was a top flight game v Clyde, again with Eric Martin in goal. A man came in at 3.15 and asked me the score. Like Man City yesterday, I told him it was 4-0 for the Pars. He called me a cheeky wee $h!t3 and offered to fit my @rse! Unlike City though, the Pars took their foot off the accelerator in the 2nd half after leading 5-1 at half-time. The final score was 6-4.



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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sun 22 Sep 08:31

I was hoping Man City would rewrite the history books yesterday. That 9-0 has been around for a little too long as a record.
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Parallel Lines  
Date:   Sun 22 Sep 14:02

The season we beat Brechin 8-0 also featured a couple of 7 goal wins. Queens Park 7-2 was one I attended. Think we hit 100 goals that season.

I looked for my pet in all the books on animals and birds and then I found it in the Book of Revelations.Marty Feldman
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 22 Sep 16:03

GG- the Pars had some hammerings in the "old" top flight from Celtic and Rangers including a record 1-8 at EEP when Lennon managed to score.

I also mind a nightmare at Tynecaste.
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Parallel Lines  
Date:   Sun 22 Sep 16:32

1-7 v rangers parlane got five. We scored first as well Graham Shaw.

I looked for my pet in all the books on animals and birds and then I found it in the Book of Revelations.Marty Feldman
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 22 Sep 17:07

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 22 Sep 16:03

GG- the Pars had some hammerings in the "old" top flight from Celtic and Rangers including a record 1-8 at EEP when Lennon managed to score.

I also mind a nightmare at Tynecaste.


I much prefer to dwell on those games where the Pars were dishing out the gubbings, VEE. ๐Ÿ™‚

I think there was a season (64/65?)when we beat Third Lanark 8-0 at EEP in the old First Division, yet they took us to two replays in the SC.

In that game v Celtic you allude to above, there was a curious stat. Celtic had 9 shots on target, the Pars had 13......



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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Sun 22 Sep 17:52

Quote:

GG Riva, Sun 22 Sep 17:07
In that game v Celtic you allude to above, there was a curious stat. Celtic had 9 shots on target, the Pars had 13......


There's many games where the keeper is the difference between only losing 3 or 4 rather than 7 or 8. I've always thought Halliwell that day was the other way round.

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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 22 Sep 18:38

Quote:

parsfan, Sun 22 Sep 17:52

Quote:

GG Riva, Sun 22 Sep 17:07
In that game v Celtic you allude to above, there was a curious stat. Celtic had 9 shots on target, the Pars had 13......


There's many games where the keeper is the difference between only losing 3 or 4 rather than 7 or 8. I've always thought Halliwell that day was the other way round.


I couldn't remember our keeper's name for that game. I think that might have been his last game for us as Alan McGregor arrived on loan from Rangers. Poor Halliwell didn't have the best of games - we'd have been as well with his Spice Girl sister in goal. ๐Ÿ™‚

What happened to him when he left the Pars? Did he have much of a career?





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Post Edited (Mon 23 Sep 06:33)
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 22 Sep 19:08

More clubs than Jack Nicklaus :-

Full name Bryn Stephen Halliwell

Date of birth 1 October 1980 (age 38)
Place of birth Epsom, England
Playing position Goalkeeper
Club information
Current team
Caledonian Braves (COACH)
Youth career
1998โ€“2000 Wimbledon
Senior career*
Years Team Apps (Gls)
2000โ€“2005 Clyde 149 (0)
2005โ€“2006 Dunfermline Athletic 12 (0)
2006โ€“2007 St Johnstone 19 (0)
2007โ€“2008 Hamilton Academical 23 (0)
2008โ€“2009 Queen of the South 4 (0)
2009 Greenock Morton 1 (0)
2009โ€“2010 Forfar Athletic 0 (0)
2010โ€“2011 Partick Thistle 12 (0)
2011 โ†’ Clyde (loan) 15 (0)
2011โ€“2014 Sauchie ? (?)
2014 Shettleston ? (?)
2014 Heart of Midlothian 0 (0)
2014โ€“2016 Shettleston ? (?)
2016โ€“2017 Gartcairn Juniors ? (?)
2017 โ†’ Greenock Morton (loan) 1 (0)



Post Edited (Sun 22 Sep 19:12)
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sun 22 Sep 20:53

Bryn Halliwell wasn't the best goalkeeper we've ever had, but he was a bit unlucky that season as he was out of the team for most of it but always played against Rangers due to McGregor being on loan from them, and also both home games against Celtic. It's worth noting that he did have one of the best games I've ever seen from a Pars goalkeeper in the league cup game at Gretna early that season where we were completely outplayed but somehow won 1-0.

Also, I'm struggling to believe the stat about 13 shots on target against Celtic. It would be very unusual to have that many shots on target in any game, never mind against one of the top sides in the country.
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: bigdonnie  
Date:   Sun 22 Sep 23:03

never been double figures in english league since 1963 think it was ipswich

donald mcneil
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: helensburghpar  
Date:   Sun 22 Sep 23:47

Quote 1-7 v Rangers, Parlane scored five. It was six one mate. I remember it well as a young schoolboy. No segregation and surrounded by Rangers fans who took great delight in giving me a slagging. Also coming out the ground met a boy from the same village wearing a Rangers scarf. He went to all the Dunfermline games at the time. Told him in no uncertain terms what I thought of his treachery. Don't think we scored first either.



Post Edited (Sun 22 Sep 23:49)
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: helensburghpar  
Date:   Sun 22 Sep 23:59

Man city beat Huddersfield 10 one. Think it was 87. Biggest Pars wins I've seen were eight nil v Brechin and seven two v Hamilton. Biggest losses I've seen were nil seven at Ibrox and one seven at Tynecastle. Thankfully missed the one eight v Celtic.



Post Edited (Mon 23 Sep 00:00)
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 01:56

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Dunfermline's 10-1 victory over Partick Thistle in the final match of 1958-59, which narrowly avoided relegation on goal average - Falkirk went down instead.

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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 07:00

''Also, I'm struggling to believe the stat about 13 shots on target against Celtic. It would be very unusual to have that many shots on target in any game, never mind against one of the top sides in the country.''

I was surprised to read that myself, Socks, which is why it's stayed with me all these years, but I can't remember if it was a Sunday paper or the 'Press' I saw it in. Of course the stat may have included long range efforts which were little more than pass backs and others which were blocked by defenders before they could pose any danger and we all know that goals are the only stats that count....

''I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Dunfermline's 10-1 victory over Partick Thistle in the final match of 1958-59, which narrowly avoided relegation on goal average - Falkirk went down instead.''

I would think that most dotnetters weren't even a twinkle in their fathers' eyes when that game took place and I'm surprised at you bringing it up with your Maryhill connections. Definitely not the Jags finest hour and if it happened today there would surely be a stewards inquiry.

FWIW, Thistle were safe in midtable, the Pars were desperate for the points and were well up for the game. I don't think the same could be said about their opponents. 7-0 for the Pars at half time is ample evidence of that. Sadly, Falkirk were relegated instead.... :-( John White missed a late penalty in a 2-2 draw with the wee team so, in the event, even a single goal victory over Partick would have kept the Pars up.

Eta. Had White scored from the spot v Raith, the Pars would have stayed up with a mere 7-1 win v Partick, so the job was done by the interval. ๐Ÿ˜‰



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Post Edited (Mon 23 Sep 07:20)
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 07:31

I believe Bryn Halliwell is currently the goalkeeping coach at Caledonian Braves, the new team playing out of Strathclyde Park (otherwise known as Edusport Academy).
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 08:12

Quote:

helensburghpar, Sun 22 Sep 23:47

Quote 1-7 v Rangers, Parlane scored five. It was six one mate. I remember it well as a young schoolboy. No segregation and surrounded by Rangers fans who took great delight in giving me a slagging. Also coming out the ground met a boy from the same village wearing a Rangers scarf. He went to all the Dunfermline games at the time. Told him in no uncertain terms what I thought of his treachery. Don't think we scored first either.


Aye that was a sore one, the Pars were a decent team then, so the margin was a surprise. Our centre half, McCallum, had been doing some welding the day before and had a "flash" in his eyes, allegedly. He certainly didn't see much of Derek Parlane that afternoon and the Rangers No. 9 had a field day. I think it was a League Cup quarter final rather than a League game.



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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: bigdonnie  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 14:28

man city beat huddersfield 10 -1 in div 2 game last team to score 10 in top league was fulham who beat ipswich 10- 2 in 1963

donald mcneil
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Johan_Cruyff  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 16:17

I remember a game vs Motherwell at EPP in 1990 (ish) and we got absolutely hammered 5-0 - we were lucky to get away with just 5, it could have been 10

I was just a kid about 9-10 years old and still remember the feeling walking away from the ground. We were outclassed all over the pitch.

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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 16:29

I remember that game, some of the Motherwell goals were so good a large amount of the Pars fans were applauding them.

matt forsyth
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 17:21

"I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Dunfermline's 10-1 victory over Partick Thistle in the final match of 1958-59, which narrowly avoided relegation on goal average - Falkirk went down instead."

If I have it right - the legendary John White missed a late penalty for Falkirk at Brockville that day - the win or draw would have kept them up I think at our expense.
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 17:24

We would have stayed up. The Rovers would have went down.
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 19:12

I used to work with George Smith (father of Trevor). I remember asking him if he was the Smith that lost the 10-1 game. Straight as as die he told me no, it was another Smith. He was to ashamed to admit the truth!

matt forsyth
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 23 Sep 19:31

Harry Melrose might be Dunfermlineโ€™s sultan of slaughter, since he played in three massive league wins.

1959: He scored 6 in the famous 10-1 win over Partick;

1961: He only managed a single when Charlie Dickson ran riot in the 7-0 win over St. Mirren;

1965: He bagged 4 goals in the 8-0 demolition of soon to be defunct Third Lanark.
Actually Melrose scored all 5 goals in the 5-1 defeat of Falkirk earlier that season but as hammerings go that was a fairly mild one.
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 02:18

"We would have stayed up. The Rovers would have went down."

Are you sure? Raith finished the season on 29 points, with Clyde and Dunfermline on 28 and Falkirk on 27, so it probably depended on the results in the final matches for those teams.

If the Falkirk-Raith match ended in a 2-2 draw (as per GG Riva) then if White's missed penalty had gone in then Raith and Falkirk would both have finished on 28 points along with Clyde and Dunfermline. But Raith's goal difference would still have been better than that of Dunfermline or Falkirk, so Falkirk would still have been relegated.

Interestingly, Aberdeen went to Ibrox and beat champions-elect Rangers on that final day - had they lost and White scored his penalty then the Dons would have been relegated.

The final league table for 1958/59 shows how close the relegation battle was, with 3 points covering six teams in danger of relegation.



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Post Edited (Tue 24 Sep 02:44)
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 08:44

Exactly, Stanza. You're far too polite though. Why not just tell BAWB he's havering. ๐Ÿ˜‰
On a point of pedantry, it was goal average rather than GD that was used to separate teams finishing level on points, of course. (I think your table calls it goal ratio.)

That season was a remarkable one, at both ends of the table. Rangers were booed off the park at Ibrox after going down to Aberdeen as it should have handed the title to Hearts who contrived to lose at Tynecastle to mid table CELTIC, so Rangers finished as champions after all......

No lying down there, then?...... I bet the Sellick fans were heartily sick at full time.



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Post Edited (Tue 24 Sep 08:45)
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 09:01

Aw right. I'm havering. Ha ha.
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 09:50

Thanks GG - I worked out the figures using Goal Average, then called it Goal Difference in my post through force of habit! A combination of late night forgetfulness and general senescence .....

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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: EastEndBoy  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 20:03

Hamilton beat Morton 10-1 a few seasons back.

Morton with one of the worst, 'we dont give a s***' performances of all time.

...ken?
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: AB Loyal  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 21:05

The run we went on at start of season 15/16 dishing out consecutive 4-1, 5-1, 6-1 & 7-1 hidings was pretty pleasing. A very enjoyable time to be a pars fan.

The Prophet - 12/07/18, 13/06/19
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 21:15

Middlesborough 8 Man City 1 happened on the last day of the season when the City players were told Sven was getting the boot and weren't too happy about it apparently.
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: par4life  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 21:52

Beating Queens 6-1 in 2011 was pretty special given we were down to ten men for half of it and scored 5 goals during that half! Was also towards the end of the title winning season which made it all the more impressive
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 22:37

"If the Falkirk-Raith match ended in a 2-2 draw (as per GG Riva) then if White's missed penalty had gone in then Raith and Falkirk would both have finished on 28 points along with Clyde and Dunfermline. But Raith's goal difference would still have been better than that of Dunfermline or Falkirk, so Falkirk would still have been relegated."

Was goal difference used back in the late 1950s ?

Was it not goal average, just as sunk Hearts in 1964-65, in Kilmarnock's favour ?

If so, how would that have played out ?
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 23:09

"Was goal difference used back in the late 1950s ?

Was it not goal average, just as sunk Hearts in 1964-65, in Kilmarnock's favour ?

If so, how would that have played out ?"


Yes, VEE - it was indeed goal average, and the headmaster has already given me a punishment exercise for my late night error - see the posts several places above this one.

Even if White had scored his penalty and Falkirk had won the game against Raith, they would still have been relegated on goal average, thanks to the Pars 10-1 win.

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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Tue 24 Sep 23:14

Is everyone lucky enough to have forgotten the 6-0 home gubbing by Kilmarnock in the noughties?

Unless it was just a bad dream, I think the worst non-OF home defeat in my 40-odd years and possibly some time before too.

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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Johan_Cruyff  
Date:   Wed 25 Sep 02:25

Hamilton at east end ??

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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 25 Sep 07:43

Quote:

Stanza, Tue 24 Sep 23:09

"Was goal difference used back in the late 1950s ?

Was it not goal average, just as sunk Hearts in 1964-65, in Kilmarnock's favour ?

If so, how would that have played out ?"


Yes, VEE - it was indeed goal average, and the headmaster has already given me a punishment exercise for my late night error - see the posts several places above this one.

Even if White had scored his penalty and Falkirk had won the game against Raith, they would still have been relegated on goal average, thanks to the Pars 10-1 win.


You'd think someone like VEE was old enough and ugly enough to read through the whole thread before posting. I bet his pupils would have incurred a rollicking for not reading or listening to instructions carefully, before starting on a piece of work......

Eta. What sunk Hearts in 64-65 (apart from losing 2-0 at home to Killie in their last game, a la Liverpool v Arsenal - Michael Thomas in stoppage time) was a 7-1 home defeat by Dundee. (Roy Barry has no recollection of this game, so either he didn't play in it, or his brain has mercifully erased it from his memory.) โ˜บ



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Post Edited (Wed 25 Sep 07:49)
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Wed 25 Sep 08:53

"
Is everyone lucky enough to have forgotten the 6-0 home gubbing by Kilmarnock in the noughties?

Unless it was just a bad dream, I think the worst non-OF home defeat in my 40-odd years and possibly some time before too."

I was a ballboy that day and think there was a handful of fans at FT. Absolutely hammered and Durrant ran the show for them

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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 25 Sep 09:43

GG,

For the record, Roy Barry did not play in the shock 7-1 defeat of Hearts by Dundee in February 1965. I think Roy has claimed never to have played in any team which was hammered that way in a competitive top level game and he is almost certainly right.

That Dundee side, although inconsistent, was rather tasty with Andy Penman, Kenny Cameron, Charlie Cooke and Hughie Robertson all scoring on the day.
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 25 Sep 11:53

Sammer,

You're correct, I've just googled it. Here are the 11 who should hang their heads in shame. :-(

1. Jim Cruickshank
2. Chris Shevlane
3. Davie Holt
4. Willie Polland
5. Alan Anderson
6. Billy Higgins
7. Roald Jensen
8. Danny Ferguson
9. Willie Wallace
10. Alan Gordon
11. Johnny Hamilton

I think Shevlane, Gordon and Hamilton also played for Hibs. Curiously Dundee also gave eventual champions, Kilmarnock a 4-1 doing at Rugby Park. The Pars did relatively well at home to Dundee, battling to a 3-3 draw. I think it may have been Eric Martin's first game for the Pars and the only point we got from the two Dundee teams that season. Here's hoping we do a lot better this time.

For the record, Dundee finished just behind Rangers in 6th place.



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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Wed 25 Sep 13:15

Would we have won the league with one more point ?
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 25 Sep 14:48

''Would we have won the league with one more point ?''

Yes, I think this has been mentioned by senior Pars fans several times on here. We had a better goal average (and goal difference) than both Hearts and Killie who finished one point above us.

No chance we'll ever get so close again. We had a very fine squad of players in 64/65 and Rangers and Celtic were no great shakes. I think we beat them both home and away but came up short against teams we were expected to brush aside comfortably.

We were also strong favourites in the SC Final v Celtic, who finished 8th in the league, but contrived to lose 3-2 after twice taking the lead........



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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 25 Sep 19:52

''Would we have won the league with one more point ?''

Yes, I think this has been mentioned by senior Pars fans several times on here. We had a better goal average (and goal difference) than both Hearts and Killie who finished one point above us.

It was not as clear cut as that at 3pm on the final league Saturday.

Hearts could still have won the league if they'd drawn or won v Kilmarnock, depending on the outcome of our last game v Celtic at EEP on the coming Tuesday.



Post Edited (Wed 25 Sep 19:53)
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Thu 26 Sep 01:18

''Would we have won the league with one more point ?''

Yes, I think this has been mentioned by senior Pars fans several times on here. We had a better goal average (and goal difference) than both Hearts and Killie who finished one point above us.

It was not as clear cut as that at 3pm on the final league Saturday.

Hearts could still have won the league if they'd drawn or won v Kilmarnock, depending on the outcome of our last game v Celtic at EEP on the coming Tuesday.


Even if Pars had been one point better off (ie 48 points) going into the Dunfermline-Celtic match on the Wednesday, it wouldn't have mattered if Hearts had drawn or won against Killie. Hearts would then have had 51 or 52 points and would have been uncatchable.

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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 26 Sep 07:34

Correct Stanza.

Killieโ€™s aspiration to win the league would have required a win at Tynecastle and us being unable to beat Celtic , had we had 48 points.



Post Edited (Thu 26 Sep 07:40)
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 26 Sep 08:10

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 26 Sep 07:34

Correct Stanza.

Killieโ€™s aspiration to win the league would have required a win at Tynecastle and us being unable to beat Celtic , had we had 48 points.


Yes, that's true of course, but Killie would still have needed to go for it against Hearts and hope Celtic would do them a favour in the postponed league match.

All ifs and buts but there's no doubt we passed up the best chance we ever had of being champions that season in what was a very competitive league, with the OF well out of contention. Can you ever imagine such a scenario again?

I have always thought that if the Pars board of 1964 had agreed to match Hibs salary offer to Jock Stein (believed to be an extra ยฃ300 p.a.) we might well have secured the double in 1965 - assuming Celtic hadn't come in to lure him away from EEP as they did with Hibs. By that time though, with Stein at the helm, we might have been out of sight in the league...... ๐Ÿ™‚ (Willie Cunningham, who took over from Big Jock was a good manager but he was no Stein.)



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: AbuBarrie  
Date:   Thu 26 Sep 09:38

If memory serves me right, Pars lost 6-0 against Clyde at the old Shawfield stadium the week before the 1961 Cup Final.
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 26 Sep 09:47

Correct, 10 days before the cup final - then 3 days after the replay beaten 0-5 at Tannadice.

With thanks to Black and White Magic - great reference work.

Shawfield was never a happy hunting round for the Pars - I never saw them win there if memory serves.

Mind another 6 goal drubbing there mid 60s.
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 Re: League Game Gubbings
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 26 Sep 10:05

"Yes, that's true of course, but Killie would still have needed to go for it against Hearts and hope Celtic would do them a favour in the postponed league match."

True GG.

We've had this discussion before - but where in world football, except Scotland, would the governing bodies allow the showpiece cup final to be played the same day as the last scheduled league fixtures, with the potential implications that might occur ?

Even worse - the SFA and Scottish League didn't learn the lesson in 64/65 and a similar situation arose in 67/68.

The strange co-incidence is that Hearts, Celtic and the Pars featured in both these scenarios, although the Jam Tarts won't want to be reminded !!!
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