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 At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Sat 28 Sep 22:45

Been a Pars supporter all my life. Depressed at the inept performances and management. I am worried the club is in decline. At what point do we demand change?



Post Edited (Sat 28 Sep 22:47)
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: HalbeathRoad  
Date:   Sat 28 Sep 23:05

This new fad of trying to play like Pep or Klopp team.We’ve not got the fitness levels for that. The desire , the work rate , the tactical understanding. We play a really poor imitation. It’s an insult . It turns in to passive football. Players won’t run through brick wall for Crawford . We don’t get stuck in to teams . We are soft and I’m not talking about running about kicking folk. No aggression , no intensity. Crawford will most likely survive . Odd win here , draw , but he’s no got it. How many games where we’ve been beaten have you come away thinking . We were unlucky there . Should have won that game . The players should look absolutely fecking shattered after every game . The manager is the man that should demand that. It’s no there .
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 28 Sep 23:09

I'd take playing dinosaur football and winning or playing lovely stuff and being super inconsistent. Right now we do neither. It's gotten to the point I'm making easy money every week just betting against us which I never want to be the case but its just too easy :(
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Sat 28 Sep 23:14

I think you are spot on. Look at Dick Campbell or Ian McCall, for example, who manage to get the best and more out of their teams. As Pars supporters we are really settling for such a low standard of football and commitment when we have such an amazing club. We should have high expectations from our club and this sub standard situation has gone on too long. We should be better than most of the teams in the Championship with our resources. I know we do not have a devine right to be better but we should have the drive and ambition to achieve premier status. If we don’t stand up as supporters and demand better then nothing will ever change.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sat 28 Sep 23:24

Play a basic 4-4-2 and work from that. It’s not rocket science!
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Sat 28 Sep 23:42

I agree but also the players need to be properly trained, have the right attitude and play as a unit. There is no creativity yet against Dundee, first half, we saw the potential. The Manager has to be accountable for such poor lack lustre, naive performances.

Out of interest does anyone know if SC has the worst record of any Pars manager ever?
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 28 Sep 23:47

I thought we did play a basic 4-4-2.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Sat 28 Sep 23:50

As a pars fan who followed the team in the 70s I would imagine Crawford isn't our worst manager ever.

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 28 Sep 23:52

Quote:

wee eck, Sat 28 Sep 23:47

I thought we did play a basic 4-4-2.


We do, will young strikers on the wing, or Beadling on the Wing etc. That formation only works nowadays if you have overlapping full backs and a holding mid to move back, or 2 proper wingers
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 28 Sep 23:56

Well EEP, who's not a rocket scientist, says it's the way to go.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Sun 29 Sep 19:30

I think there is room for improvement with every player. I think the players who have the desire and willingness have come to the club to develop and get the opportunity for first team football. We should never project limits on people. It has a phsycological impact and dents confidence. It should be about building people up to perform at their best. There may be different yardsticks but we are all capable if more than we think and I think we are capable of performing at tbe highest level with the hard work, committment and self belief.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: Row_ZZ  
Date:   Sun 29 Sep 19:42

Can’t believe our fans are sitting on their hands at the way the clubs going. We’re turning into a team like QoS just happy to be floating about the second tier. No ambition and the crowds are dwindling. We’ll end up like the Wee Team the way things are going.

I Know There's Gonna Be (Good Times)
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Sun 29 Sep 21:04

Football is about entertainment, you pay to be entertained, why would you pay to be disappointed?

A Saturday afternoon wasted and out of pocket soon becomes a non starter, and hardly an environment to bring young future supporters.

The long term implications for a fast changing Dunfermline catchment area is massive for our club in it's current state, long term fans disillusioned new fans turned off and potential new fans given no incentive to give it a go!

17,500 fans we took to Hamden not so long ago, the current team and management struggle to get 20% of that number paying to attend EEP.

The maths stop working very soon if full time football can and will continue.

Change is needed to bring back a desire to be at EEP at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon, currently there appears to be no desire due to results and the football we are playing!



Post Edited (Sun 29 Sep 21:05)
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: gordi-b  
Date:   Sun 29 Sep 21:36

There certainly is an air of complacency and acceptance at E.E.P. at the moment . the total lack of atmosphere and support was very evident yesterday , the lack of vocal support from our singing section in the N,W due to a sparse attendance was quite alarming, if we continue this acceptance of the dross being served up at the moment , the attendances will dwindle alarmingly

G.B
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: Pars11  
Date:   Sun 29 Sep 22:13

Take my grandchildren to most home games and they love the feel of sitting in a reasonable crowd for what they know, as a stalwart of the late 60's onward's, I know what it is like to be in a packed EEP with mostly Pars fans making up the greater numbers apart from Hibs, Hearts, Celtic and Rangers. Fear for the future as Scottish football is crap, we need more commitment from our management and the team. Talent is wasted when you win nothing, that is where we are. What does it take to go the extra mile is special, as a club we have lost this on many occasions from Alex Ferguson onward's, we have surrendered to a lesser stance with transferring out talent. Of success that is given, but for a few results won, we would be the fourth force in Scottish football not a team struggling with life. Commitment I dream of us being a force again.

Bluebell Polka
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sun 29 Sep 23:01

Let’s face it we are utter dross but have a decent team. I question the management side tbh.
No doubt my wee following friend wee eck will come along with his view😅😅😩👌👌😅



Post Edited (Sun 29 Sep 23:07)
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Sun 29 Sep 23:34

IMO accusations of complacency, if they are directed at the Board, the management or the players, are completely misplaced. I don't think there is a man or woman who doesn't want to see improvement in performance on the field and in the club's league position, and the problem is not lack of desire, it's lack of the wherewithal (or perhaps the ability) to achieve it.

It's very easy for us as fans to demand improvement - the fans of 41 other clubs are probably demanding the same thing and it's a lot more difficult for those responsible to make it happen. Clubs with much greater resources than DAFC have struggled to get out of the Championship (Rangers took two seasons, Hibs took three and if Dundee Utd manage at the fourth attempt it will only be by throwing even more money at it.)

There are always exceptions, but generally the more money a club spends on players, managers, coaches etc the better the results. I would guess our budget is middling in Championship terms, so any final league position from 4th to 7th would be in line with that. It's also worth remembering that Alloa and Arbroath can recruit the best players in Scotland who choose to pursue a career outside football, and their business models are geared to supply that other part-time employment.

I don't see any of that as complacency, just reality. I believe everyone involved is working their socks off to improve things, but as always if someone can up with practical suggestions that will improve matters I'm sure they will be listened to.



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Post Edited (Mon 30 Sep 01:27)
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: Rigger Al  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 03:10

Quote:

Stanza, Sun 29 Sep 23:34

IMO accusations of complacency, if they are directed at the Board, the management or the players, are completely misplaced. I don't think there is a man or woman who doesn't want to see improvement in performance on the field and in the club's league position, and the problem is not lack of desire, it's lack of the wherewithal (or perhaps the ability) to achieve it.

It's very easy for us as fans to demand improvement - the fans of 41 other clubs are probably demanding the same thing and it's a lot more difficult for those responsible to make it happen. Clubs with much greater resources than DAFC have struggled to get out of the Championship (Rangers took two seasons, Hibs took three and if Dundee Utd manage at the fourth attempt it will only be by throwing even more money at it.)

There are always exceptions, but generally the more money a club spends on players, managers, coaches etc the better the results. I would guess our budget is middling in Championship terms, so any final league position from 4th to 7th would be in line with that. It's also worth remembering that Alloa and Arbroath can recruit the best players in Scotland who choose to pursue a career outside football, and their business models are geared to supply that other part-time employment.

I don't see any of that as complacency, just reality. I believe everyone involved is working their socks off to improve things, but as always if someone can up with practical suggestions that will improve matters I'm sure they will be listened to.


Good post Stanza .What happened to all the posts saying Stevie the management and team need time .
We are not even through the first set of games and calling for heads .

I stick by what was suggested on here at start of the season give stevie and the management until the turn of the year and assess then, any earlier is just a panic knee jerk reaction .
I still believe we have a good enough squad of players to at least make top 5 .
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: RhinoPars  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 05:55

Good Post Stanza,

From the comments of some on dotnet you would think we didn't play any football at all on Saturday. In reality we had a number of good moves and created more than enough chances to get the three points. Just watch the highlights. Unfortunately Nisbet had an off day in front of goal, when on another day he might have got a hat-trick. Nisbet did set up some chances for others including Turner's goal albeit with a little hand help. We wouldn't be having the usual dotnet meltdown if we had just managed to convert another one of the chances we created. Credit to Alloa too for how they played. Personally I am enjoying this season much more than last and appreciate we are having to operate in a very competitive league on a reduced budget with a younger team this season. I am a glass half full person and for me it is 4 points (and should have been 6 points) out of our last 6.



Post Edited (Mon 30 Sep 18:05)
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: oapar  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 07:53

At last some well balanced and honest opinions.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 08:29

I just watched the highlights. Plenty good chances created, far from dross.
On another day with a bit luck a few of those would have gone in. Their goal was an incredibly accurate strike from distance. He wont do that too often.
Keeper was fully stretched and just got his fingers to it.
Some folk on here are waaaayyyyyy over the top in their expectations and comments.
No panic here after seeing that.

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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 09:17

Thank goodness wise old heads like Stanza still contribute to this forum to provide some balance against the knee-jerk posters who don't seem capable of thinking more than one move ahead.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: StevenPar77  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 09:52

At what point can we get over the 'at least we have a club'.
I am and always will be eternally thankful for the efforts of everyone no matter how big or small to allow us to remain as DAFC but surely we are allowed to expect some sort of progress.
As for Saturday it wasn't great but it wasn't the worst either.
If Nisbet scores after 60 seconds rather than doing a Michael Moffat then it is a different game.

http://www.agiftfor.net
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 10:25

Quote:

renegade master, Sun 29 Sep 21:04

Football is about entertainment, you pay to be entertained, why would you pay to be disappointed?

A Saturday afternoon wasted and out of pocket soon becomes a non starter, and hardly an environment to bring young future supporters.

The long term implications for a fast changing Dunfermline catchment area is massive for our club in it's current state, long term fans disillusioned new fans turned off and potential new fans given no incentive to give it a go!

17,500 fans we took to Hamden not so long ago, the current team and management struggle to get 20% of that number paying to attend EEP.

The maths stop working very soon if full time football can and will continue.

Change is needed to bring back a desire to be at EEP at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon, currently there appears to be no desire due to results and the football we are playing!


Good post renegade , apart from the fact where you said we only atract 20% of the 17.5k we took to hampden. All true but we were only getting 35-40% of that 17.5k through the gates at EEP that season. And that average were boosted by supporters of the bigot brothers , Aberdeen, hibs and hearts against the 50 odd fans Alloa brought on Saturday

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 15:21

As said previously it’s commendable that supporters want to support the status quo. Under no circumstances was that a good performance on Saturday. The drop in the attendance and lack of atmosphere was apparent. Sure we can hope things improve wait for a year and watch attendances drop and drop. Fans won’t come back. If this was a new situation I would understand but it is on the back of poor managerial decisions - potter, AJ, now Crawford (who could not cut it at East Fife).

If attendances drop so do revenues and the clubs options decrease. A new manager good results and back to great support. Darren Young, Danny Lennon,
and several other mangers could be options.

I care passionately about the Pars but was shocked by Saturdays attendance and our continued poor performance after winning on Saturday ( first league win since March!).

Our club is on demise, no doubt! Change is needed.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: back oh the net  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 15:36

Panic button smashed ^^^^^^^^ your not coming up with anything new compared to your op just re wording it is change needed? It probably will be at some point but not right now if it was made now could we afford it? No not really but the club by no means in demise as you put it

Do I want to see results improve yes absolutely but I’m not expecting it to happen overnight

Come on ye pars ⚽️
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 15:45

Thanks for your response, really appreciate your comments.

It’s that phrase ‘can we afford it’. Can we afford to continue as it is? We have the potential to have great crowds and atmosphere. I think under the current set up we face long term poor performances and reduced revenues.

Shocked by the dwindling support and can see things getting worse.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 15:55

couple of posts have summed things up well here with 1 major thing being missed...we are not alone and the position the club is in is replicated across many clubs in Scottish football.

Have cut down my attendance at games due to the "enjoyment factor" large part of the last "run" of games i attended was end of AJ tenure and Start of SC term. The players lack of interest was galling and paying £18 a time plus travel ec and half day/day out the house etc is not something i could continue to justify.

Attended couple of cup games and product wasnt too much better than last season. Last 5/6 weeks I have been out at east of scotland games/juniors refereeing but even Sat when I got a call to say my assigned game was off I had no thought that it now meant I could get to east end. Something that 4/5 years ago i wouldn't have a second thought of.

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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 16:11

The enjoyment factor has gone from EEP.

I do understand your comments about ‘other clubs’. This is the Pars though. Last seasons games against Falkirk and Dun Utd (playoffs) were electric .we can’t even come close to that this season. A 3-0 defeat to Raith last season epitomised our situation. I know we have different team now. I think we have some decent young players. I think we have a manager who cannot organise them and cannot face challenge to his formations. The interview after the Caley match was really telling.

I think we have to look at the clubs on our own merits. If other clubs mean Ayr, Arbroath, Alloa, QOS, Morton etc then I am sorry but I think we are better than that.

We have amazing potential we need to b respecting better and things need to change radically.

I am Pars through and through, season ticket holder and go to every home game. Change has to happen we are struggling.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 16:20

You're repeating yourself. You still haven't told us how we get from where we are to where we want to be. The board decided on a new strategy. I don't think they're going to ditch it two months into the season.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 16:27

Every Pars fan wants to see improvement - a reasonable ambition is that at some time, hopefully soon, we will be a Premier League club again and have an occasional good Cup run and/or European adventure. Whether it is reasonable to aim any higher than that is IMO doubtful.

But we are where we are. I don't know the exact financial details for any of the following, but I think anyone demanding a major improvement on the field has to address one or more of the following interconnected issues (and there may be others)
- the club has very little spare money
- the club operates only due to volunteers at every level right up to the Board
- Championship rivals for promotion have larger income streams
- our governance structure makes a takeover difficult/impossible
- apart from the stadium name there are no opportunities for further investment
- the stadium is too large for our needs and is expensive to maintain
- the management team (and some players) are on long-ish personal contracts

The Board seems to be pursuing a policy of setting out DAFC as a staging post for younger or loaned players who might bring success and at the same time advance their own careers, while developing even younger players who might bring in much-needed revenue from transfers with add-on clauses. It may not work, and there are bound to be bumps on the road, but it's hard to see what other options are open to the Board - answers with specific recommendations should be sent on a postcard to Ross McArthur!

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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 16:40

The point I am making, to be succinct. If crowds decline revenue drops -1500 reduction in attendance £30k (£20 x 1500?).

Okay so would definitely change manage (after being accused of repetition). Not sure what else you want me to say. If you have specific questions ask me!
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 16:46

The main question is - 'How are you going to finance the sort of changes you want?' Stanza has listed the issues affecting our financial position.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 17:01

I would finance it by stopping the current decline in attendances (as mentioned above). I think we lack the organisation but not the potential. Are you happy to keep going as is - 1 win since March?

Constant decline in attendances = reduces revenues!
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: The Toun Clock  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 17:15

Usually I always buy a season ticket but I just didn't have the extra cash at the time and now it's not worth my while as you only save £60 and we've already had enough home games at £20 to cover that. If we were playing at home next week I genuinely don't know if I'd bother. I'm sad to say it's boring.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 17:15

summeragent.... So how about instead of typing on here... Go and do something about it.
Contact the club directly with your ideas... Whatever they are.





Post Edited (Mon 30 Sep 17:16)
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 17:19

Don’t find your comments in the least constructive. Give an opinion - if you are happy to see the club decline say so and if not state what you think should happen. If not refrain from ridiculous posts.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 17:44

Ridiculous?
I've told you what to do... Cos posting your ideas (or lack of) on here... won't achieve anything.
You want change so badly... Do it the right way. Contact the club.
I don't have a clue how to fix things... I suspect you don't either 🤣



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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 17:57

This is a supporters forum. We express our views and discuss our thoughts. In your opinion we should all direct our views to the BOD, maybe close the forum?

I want to engage with true supporters who want the best for the club and express my views. I think we need change. I was shocked after the massive dip in attendance on Saturday and the lack of atmosphere and poor performance. Things can only get worse with the current set up. We have the potential to be a really great club again.

There is a split on this site as to whether we stay with the status quo or have a radical change. I want a change because I can see me at EEP with crowds of 1000.

I suspect you are looking for confrontation if so look elsewhere. I am happy to discuss opinions with genuine Pars fans whether right or wrong.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: ReturningParsFan  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 17:58

I understand the frustration of fans who can only see a continuing, steady decline. For me, I was almost changing my username to 'Not Returning Pars Fan' at the end of 2018/19, but the Pars are in my blood and I'm excited by the 'project' and also by the signing of players such as Nisbet, Turner, Dow, Comrie and Murray. Yes, it's not going brilliantly just now, but others have pointed out that it was generally understood at the start of the season that a young team will be inconsistent and have as many poor performances as good ones. This is what is happening. Maybe we were spoiled by the St Mirren, Dundee (first half) and Celtic performances ? Anyway, this is most definitely the time for supporters to support, see the positives (there are a few if you want to look) and continue to attend home matches. The manager situation will sort itself out, and maybe SC will prove he's not the man for the job. But I'm happy to let him, Shields and Dair see what they can do over a far longer period than 2 months.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 18:08

No confrontation here... But we are very sceptical when a newbie comes on and tries to shake things up as you have done. I'm simply telling you a better way to go about it.
You seem to be a passionate pars fan... But as I've already said , grumbling on here will achieve nothing.
If you really want change... Contact the club.
Yes this is a forum to discuss all things PARS related... But are YOU willing to go further?
Cos it seems like that's what you're after.



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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 18:08

I think if fans accept this was always going to be a transitional season without high ambition, then we can move ahead.
I've accepted we will be no better than mid table but I also see no reason why we can't be battling for 4th spot given a run of results which we are capable of.
Stevie Crawford is over cautious in his tactics when we have the players to open up defences and score goals and this is my biggest criticism of him.
I'd rather go all out to win every game even if it meant 4 points from 9 rather than what we seem to get, Partick aside, the game always in the balance whether 0-0 or 1-0.
Just go out full attack and make it exciting for the fans even if we lose 2-3 or whatever.
But, even if this won't happen, I don't think we are bad enough to go down and chopping and changing is most certainly what we don't need now.
It's done us no favours at all thus far.

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 18:33

I do respect your opinion.

I was really dismayed at the attendance and atmosphere at EEP on Saturday it really upset me - were you there? It’s the same week in and week out and fans are voting by not coming to the games and there will be continued decline in attendances if this is dished up every home game. I have seen very few home performances over this season and the last that would make anyone come to the matches. So I can only see things getting worse.

Whatever happens I will be at EEP supporting Pars as I have done all my life. I want Pars to succeed but think we have the wrong person at the helm. I hope he proves me wrong. The wide play has not happened and the shots at goal are abysmal but I pray for Devine intervention.

Next games are key - Morton and Ayr then we are back to 2 away games against the Dundee teams. If we are at the bottom of the league at that point it’s going to be a difficult season.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: RhinoPars  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 18:33

I' m with you Returning Pars Fan. It was a real shame that we didn't take our chances on Saturday to keep the momentum going after our convincing win at Firhill. Granted - failing to take our chances, and as a result, losing two points on Saturday when we should have won was very disappointing. However, I still found the game entertaining to watch with some football being played by both teams. Credit to Alloa too. I am enjoying watching players like Comrie, Dow, McCann, Nisbet and Turner more than the likes of Myles Hippolyte (whose first-time control was terrible). Let's hope we can bounce back and beat Morton and make it 7 from 9. It may not work out in the end for our management team, but I for one am happy to give them a decent chance to show what they can do. We are trying a new model this season due to our financial situation. Let's at least give it a decent try.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 19:23

So I am not disagreeing that we have some good players. I am liking Nisbet, Dow, Comrie to name a few. But even if we had ‘eeked’ outa win on Saturday it was not a good performance and I don’t see it getting better. It’s about the team formation and strategy and it’s not there! McCall, Hopkin, Campbell would have all had us getting results.

Watch the attendance over the next 4 - 5 games and if results and performance dont improve attendance will decline further (I will be there regardless), as will revenue. I crave the exciting Pars and the amazing football we can play and would accept attacking performances with passion. If defeats should come then let’s lose with passion.

Potter was a great servant for the club and we should thank him, but not a manager. AJ took us to another level. Then it was up to us to take that next step. We have now moved backwards with our management and in a dangerous place likely to follow Falkirk to the 1st division!

We have a chance to maybe do better than the PT teams but Alloa will fancy their chances of 3 points at home to us if they can easily earn a point at EEP.

By all means give this an experiment a year but if it fails then I don’t see where that leaves us?
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 19:43

I can answer that one...
If it fails we'll be in division 1.



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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 20:22

Quote:

summeragent, Mon 30 Sep 16:40

The point I am making, to be succinct. If crowds decline revenue drops -1500 reduction in attendance £30k (£20 x 1500?).

Okay so would definitely change manage (after being accused of repetition). Not sure what else you want me to say. If you have specific questions ask me!


You are assuming the 1500 drop would all be full paying adults and not taking taxes etc into account. Your figures are way out and the 1500 is a crazy figure plucked from the sky in the first place.
I admire your passion but please leave running the club to the people who understand the balance sheet

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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 20:40

Before the season started we were told about the club finances. We were also told that we were having to slash the budget and increase ticket costs. On another post I said that I did not expect us to have such a large squad and perhaps if it was smaller the finances might have brought in better players. I am fairly fortunate to be able to afford a Gold Ticket and I enjoy going to as many home games as possible. I did not boo anybody on Saturday, it was obvious they were trying their best and they wanted to win. I have also said in the past that as crowds get smaller (not just ours) more clubs will be going part time.

matt forsyth
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 20:45

Thanks for your comment. I am passionate about the Pars having followed them home and away for as long as I remember.

Sorry I am repetitive but it was the drop in attendance on Saturday, poor performance (like a Sunday football game) and lack of atmosphere in the ground that hit a mark with me.

I reckon we average 5k per home game but honestly I don’t think there was 3.5k on Saturday. If we lose to Morton it will be less against Ayr and so on. Can’t see our performances improving under SC...tactics are not good enough and passion lacking. This is even though we have players who can do so much better.

If things improve, attendances go up then I will be happy and apologetic. Yes the running of the club is with the directors....as I said in my previous post this is a supporters forum an opportunity for us to air our views and frustrations and share opinions. My opinion is that we should have a smaller squad, invest in a good manager, boost performances, crowds, hospitality and revenues (honestly easier said than done lol).

I do think the BOD have a difficult job to balance finances so do we take a risk for a better manager or risk decline, maybe relegation and PT football? Scottish football is not in a good place but we should be doing better.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 21:09

A lot of people. Disagree with your assesment of our performance on Saturday.
Some on here who have played at a decent level gave what I will take as a more balanced opinion.
I honestly feel you are saying we were poor simply because we failed to beat a team that you mistakenly think is krap because they are called Alloa.
I only saw the highlights but from that I could say we created lots of chances and should have won.
I also disagree that we wont improve.
I think you should be confident that our board can do the maths and if and when the think a decision has to be made they will decide when the club can afford to do it.

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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 21:34

In response to your points:

1. I thought it was a poor display on Saturday and comes on the back of a poor performances and next to no goal threats against Alloa, Inverness or Arbroath..

2. Yes I expect us to do better against Alloa - Ayr beat them 4-1 at Alloa a couple of weeks ago? Why are Ayr a better team than us and do we expect to do through the ‘transition period’ before we can get to their standard?

I take it you never got to the game on Saturday - it was not pretty! Give it a couple more games like this and we might be able to close off the Norris Stand for home games!!

Hopefully we won’t be bottom after the next 2 games but can’t see us getting many points.

I am really interested in the transition period. If we have the players what is holding us back now? Is it the case of waiting for a year until the players mature? When we have a squad of 37 players and then blame defeats on the loss of of a couple of players due to injury how does that work? Should we not have some depth in our squad to cover for injuries.

Not trying to be controversial but throwing some thoughts into the mix!
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 22:48

Maybe you are spending too much time worrying about this. There will be up and down performances this year- just accept that we are where we are and roll with it
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: par-4-life  
Date:   Mon 30 Sep 22:48

Majority of fans need a reality check, the state of Scottish football in the current era is dead more about survival and living within your means these days, unless you are the Rangers/Celtic or have a sugar daddy putting money in.

This concept that we deserve to be competing at a higher level as we are a big club is nonsense. Granted we have a big stadium but this is more a hindrance these days and even years past. It’s probably twice as big as it needs to be. When we were paying big wages and competing for European qualification and in cups what was our average attendance 7000/8000 and this was playing Rangers/Celtic/Hearts/Hibs etc that would bring about 3000/4000. Now we are playing the likes of Inverness/Alloa/Ayr who are lucky to average about 600/700. Our average attendance last year I’m guessing would be 4000 maybe so from the days when we were competing to now have we actually lost a lot of pars fans I would say No.

Now talking about big clubs Man Utd are a big club they have all the resources available to them to do as they please. They are now on there 4 manager searching for the glory days since Sir Alex retired and sitting middle table so doesn’t look like this year will be successful either. It’s not as easy to achieve as everyone makes out it takes time to build something successful. Sir Alex from rumours was a game away from the sack and look what he achieved. Man Utd probably not the best comparison but Leeds Utd, Notts Forest big clubs that can’t get out championship. It’s not that long ago Bradford were competing in Premier League there now in League 2.

On the opposite scale Bournemouth have a smaller stadium than us and are competing in the premier league and have been for 4 years now as they built up a club structure they can sustain. Going by comments on here Bournemouth are the Alloa/Arbroath of our league so shouldn’t be able to compete it’s nonsense.

I’m not happy with results and some of the performances but understand that it’s also not an easy or quick fix but every fan is entitled to there own opinion. Not turning up to games to vent your frustration isn’t the answer though as only makes it worse for current management or future as revenue is reduced. Vent frustrations at board/management before or after game but show support to players on the park. Not supporting team on park results in reduced budget next year and even worse entertainment.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Fri 4 Oct 22:52

Just for the avoidance of any doubt, I attend all Pars home matches (season ticket holder) and some away games. I have done most of my life. I never boo the players - I always support them. Yes I have a moan about the results and generally leave the ground disappointed.

However I do think the next 3 games v Morton/ Ayr/ Dun Utd will be key and will be interested in reading people’s thoughts on our performances, and league position thereafter.

People keep stating its a close league and we have no devine right to beat any team. That is true but the league does not lie and the best teams get the the results and ultimately prevail and the worst teams fight out relegation.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Fri 4 Oct 23:18

Quote:

summeragent, Fri 4 Oct 22:52

Just for the avoidance of any doubt, I attend all Pars home matches (season ticket holder) and some away games. I have done most of my life. I never boo the players - I always support them. Yes I have a moan about the results and generally leave the ground disappointed.

However I do think the next 3 games v Morton/ Ayr/ Dun Utd will be key and will be interested in reading people’s thoughts on our performances, and league position thereafter.

People keep stating its a close league and we have no devine right to beat any team. That is true but the league does not lie and the best teams get the the results and ultimately prevail and the worst teams fight out relegation.


They wont be key at all. Utd and Ayr are expected to win. Morton is possibly key but we are a long way from the lock yet.

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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 09:51

Quote:

summeragent, Fri 4 Oct 22:52

Just for the avoidance of any doubt, I attend all Pars home matches (season ticket holder) and some away games. I have done most of my life. I never boo the players - I always support them. Yes I have a moan about the results and generally leave the ground disappointed.


That might well be the case, but you couldn't come across more like an interloper from another team, here to stir things up if you tried.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 21:54

Not an acceptable performance once again. The only shot on goal was the goal. Bottom of the league beckons! Really concerned about the dwindling support. Unless we get some entertaining football supporters will be leaving in droves!
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 22:07


(That might well be the case, but you couldn't come across more like an interloper from another team, here to stir things up if you tried).

Behave yourself!
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 22:09

He's not wrong... You are a newbie after all... Or are you? 🤔



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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 22:19

No I have posted on here previously but not so much. I am not justifying myself anyway if you are that concerned please move on and read other posts.

If you are concerned by the poor performances and the decline of our club feel free to contribute but cut out the ridiculous comments and focus on the discussion!
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 22:22

Oh he’s a newbie?
What does that really matter widtink?
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 22:31

Well as you may or may not be aware EEP ... Anyone who has been ejected from the site isn't supposed to be let back on (this isn't a concrete rule... More a general guideline as exceptions have been made in the past).
But you get to know the way folk post over the years so even if they do hide their ip or use a different email address we usually find out sooner or later.
I'm just wondering which previous poster summeragent was that's all.
That's why I posted "or are you"? 🤣
His style is definitely ringing a few bells.



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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 22:40

Okay fair play. I am giving my opinion, I am not a trouble maker so apologies if I have come over that way.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 22:40

Quote:

widtink, Sat 5 Oct 22:31

Well as you may or may not be aware EEP ... Anyone who has been ejected from the site isn't supposed to be let back on (this isn't a concrete rule... More a general guideline as exceptions have been made in the past).
But you get to know the way folk post over the years so even if they do hide their ip or use a different email address we usually find out sooner or later.
I'm just wondering which previous poster summeragent was that's all.
That's why I posted "or are you"? 🤣
His style is definitely ringing a few bells.


Crawford's style is ringing a few Falkirk bells....what's your point.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 22:54

My point is Crawford is not going to cut it. We can continue as is and hope for a miracle or get a decent manager in now. Was totally dismayed with the crowd via Alloa. The support is dwindling and will continue to decline.

1 shot on target today- not good enough. Can’t see a point coming in the next couple of games but I pray I am wrong!

Maybe I should post on the ‘Crawford out’ thread! He is way out of his depth. We have the players need a good manager - I agree with EEP.

I love the Pars and will support the club through ‘thick and thin’ but better decisions have to be made at BOD level.

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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: HalbeathRoad  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 23:08

KGB is Wheelking who is summeragent who is Hummingbird Harry. And round and round it goes.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 23:13

Your wrong with the usernames... But your right as in it goes round and round lol



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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 23:17

Stop the conspiracy theories and focus on the discussion.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 23:18

Tbh widtink I don’t care if anyone is allowed back or they are not allowed back blah blah.
I’m more concerned about the team.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 23:23

Well you did ask....
Quote:

EEP, Sat 5 Oct 22:22

Oh he’s a newbie?
What does that really matter widtink?




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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 23:38

Quote:

HalbeathRoad, Sat 5 Oct 23:08

KGB is Wheelking who is summeragent who is Hummingbird Harry. And round and round it goes.


Utter garbage😂😂😂
So wrong😂😂😂

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 23:48

Haha looking to issue cards but no one has said anything??😅
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 5 Oct 23:52

Nope... Been quite a quiet night.
Weird... I expected the usual meltdown.
We don't look to dish out cards... Quite the opposite.



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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Sun 6 Oct 00:42

Quote:

widtink, Sat 5 Oct 23:52

Nope... Been quite a quiet night.
Weird... I expected the usual meltdown.
We don't look to dish out cards... Quite the opposite.


Admin has been really good on here tbf over the last couple of years. Certainly alot better than the despicable way some were treated before during and after administration.

Awight Pat!
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sun 6 Oct 00:45

Quote:

Frank Butchers LoveHandles, Sun 6 Oct 00:42

Quote:

widtink, Sat 5 Oct 23:52

Nope... Been quite a quiet night.
Weird... I expected the usual meltdown.
We don't look to dish out cards... Quite the opposite.


Admin has been really good on here tbf over the last couple of years. Certainly alot better than the despicable way some were treated before during and after administration.


This.
To insinuate a bias is inaccurate and unfair.
Times are divisive...admin imo so far have not been.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sun 6 Oct 04:54

Quote:

HalbeathRoad, Sat 5 Oct 23:08

KGB is Wheelking who is summeragent who is Hummingbird Harry. And round and round it goes.

Utter garbage😂😂😂
So wrong😂😂😂


====

TBH, I miss the faux hoolies, KGB's cutting wit and all that stuff. I only met KGB once, a long time ago in the North Stand, and he came across as a thoroughly decent fella.
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Fri 11 Oct 00:07

If we lose the next 2 games against Ayr and Dun Utd and find ourselves bottom, or thereabouts, how significant is the Arbroath game to the current management position?
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 Re: At what point do Pars fans say ‘enough is enough’ and demand change?
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Fri 11 Oct 00:36

If we don't put at least 3 on San Marino

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