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 VAR
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 17:18

It's ruining the premiership if you ask me. Hope it's never introduced up here.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 17:28

I dont think its ruining it but there's a lot of scope for improvement that's for sure.

The biggest issue for folk at the games is not knowing what's going on. They should show the review on the big screen in the same way they do with rugby.

At the City v Villa game both sets of fans were singing f@ck VAR and a lot of the time its because the fans have no idea what's being reviewed.

The Silva/Sterling review for the 2nd Man City goal was completely bizarre until you saw what was being reviewed after the game.

It should work out for the best in the end but the authorities need to revise how it's being used.

Ultimately it's still getting more right than it's getting wrong but it definitely could be better.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: Scrimmers249  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 17:33

The biggest issue for folk at the games is not knowing what's going on. They should show the review on the big screen in the same way they do with rugby.

this
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 17:44

Quote:

londonparsfan, Sun 27 Oct 17:28

I dont think its ruining it but there's a lot of scope for improvement that's for sure.

The biggest issue for folk at the games is not knowing what's going on. They should show the review on the big screen in the same way they do with rugby.

At the City v Villa game both sets of fans were singing f@ck VAR and a lot of the time its because the fans have no idea what's being reviewed.

The Silva/Sterling review for the 2nd Man City goal was completely bizarre until you saw what was being reviewed after the game.

It should work out for the best in the end but the authorities need to revise how it's being used.

Ultimately it's still getting more right than it's getting wrong but it definitely could be bettger.


Really only needs used in obvious penalty decisions the referree has missed and offsides. Too many stoppages with players standing about and fans unsure what's going on.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 17:53

What also annoys me about it is the a mount of game time that is actually lost. I've seen several games when VAR decisions have taken around 5 minutes and yet only 2 minutes of stoppage time has been added on-they should stop the clock like rugby.With regards to the big screen the only issue with that is that not all clubs have one.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 18:00

I'd disagree quite strongly with that. Benches are watching the game and can put all sorts of pressure on referees when they make the wrong decision and they get their feeds almost in real time.

I'd allow the VAR team to overrule the ref in all cases where the decision is obvious and then refer it to the ref when there is ambiguity that comes down to interpretation.

It's impossible for the system to be 100% perfect because it still involves humans making decisions but the FA seem to be taking a position that they dont want to undermine the original decision by the ref when they should be more focused on getting as many decisions correct irrespective as to how the decision is reached.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 18:02

Quote:

parathletic, Sun 27 Oct 17:53

What also annoys me about it is the a mount of game time that is actually lost. I've seen several games when VAR decisions have taken around 5 minutes and yet only 2 minutes of stoppage time has been added on-they should stop the clock like rugby.With regards to the big screen the only issue with that is that not all clubs have one.


I'd agree with that whole heartedly on the time front but where the screens are available they should be used.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 18:30

Quote:

londonparsfan, Sun 27 Oct 18:00

I'd disagree quite strongly with that. Benches are watching the game and can put all sorts of pressure on referees when they make the wrong decision and they get their feeds almost in real time.

I'd allow the VAR team to overrule the ref in all cases where the decision is obvious and then refer it to the ref when there is ambiguity that comes down to interpretation.

It's impossible for the system to be 100% perfect because it still involves humans making decisions but the FA seem to be taking a position that they dont want to undermine the original decision by the ref when they should be more focused on getting as many decisions correct irrespective as to how the decision is reached.


Not for me. The game would have too many stoppages and indecision. Players have already said they've stop celebrating goals as much so as not to look silly if it's chalked off. Madness
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 18:42

If the VAR team are instructing the ref in real time it could minimise the disruption as they have the authority to make the decisions.

When it comes to a reduction in celebrating goals I can honestly say I've only ever seen one goal where it was half heartedly supported and that was because Aguero looked well off side when he scored and it really felt there was a strong chance it would be chalked off.

There's virtually no difference between VAR ruling a goal off side and the linesman putting a late flag up in terms as to whether you celebrate a goal or not.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: the saline hill puma  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 19:02

VAR can **** off, was only brought in to please TV "fans" and folk that think football is about the cash. **** those toss pots
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 19:03

Best thing for football since studs.

Bobs of the world unite
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 19:05

I suspect that Puma has had his football coupon ruined by var results.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: the saline hill puma  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 19:06

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 27 Oct 19:05

I suspect that Puma has had his football coupon ruined by var results.


You would be wrong
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 19:15

Quote:

the saline hill puma, Sun 27 Oct 19:02

VAR can **** off, was only brought in to please TV "fans" and folk that think football is about the cash. **** those toss pots


This is the weirdest argument going. The TV cameras are already there and are often quicker than the VAR teams that exist now. If anything something had to be done because armchair fans were getting the "correct decision" quicker and more frequently than punters at the game. I've genuinely lost count of the times I've texted mates asking whether the decision I've seen in real life was was correct prior to VAR being introduced.

You would also see management teams walking towards referee teams with tablets asking them to explain glaringly incorrect decisions at half time and berating them when the game is ongoing.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: the saline hill puma  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 19:19

Quote:

londonparsfan, Sun 27 Oct 19:15

Quote:

the saline hill puma, Sun 27 Oct 19:02

VAR can **** off, was only brought in to please TV "fans" and folk that think football is about the cash. **** those toss pots


This is the weirdest argument going. The TV cameras are already there and are often quicker than the VAR teams that exist now. If anything something had to be done because armchair fans were getting the "correct decision" quicker and more frequently than punters at the game. I've genuinely lost count of the times I've texted mates asking whether the decision I've seen in real life was was correct prior to VAR being introduced.

You would also see management teams walking towards referee teams with tablets asking them to explain glaringly incorrect decisions at half time and berating them when the game is ongoing.


The correct decision is made 9/10 by the ref. Football is being ruined in the "big" leagues by this pihs
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 20:01

I'm not sure that 90% of the decisions are correct but even if it is, how many times in life would you accept a 10% error rate?

Bit of an extreme example but if 1 in 10 of flights would fall out of the sky, would you still board a plane or would you choose an alternative that is less prone to the worst outcome? Personally I wouldn't be anywhere near that vs other modes of transport under those odds. If an air bag in a car worked 90% of the time vs 91% or even 95% what option would you vote for?

Part of the focus on the bad decisions made by VAR is human nature. We focus on the bad rather than the good. There are real flaws in VAR that could be fixed before we even get to the technically difficult questions (from a technology and a rule based perspective) but the bottom line is that it corrects more errors than are made.

Can you imagine if VAR had picked up Balde's handball and disallowed HL's goal? Would we have scored and gone two up? Would we have won? Who knows? The one thing I am sure of was that at least one decision would have been correct and the rest of the game would have stood on its merits.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 21:22

Skerla’s goal would probably have been disallowed for a foul on the Jonathan Gould
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 21:38

Possibly Pars tinted glasses but I thought he won it well.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 22:30

Me too but my Celtic supporting brother in law disagrees 😂
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 22:30

Use VAR like appeals in tennis so the team appeals and if upheld they still have 3 appeals.When appeals gone they depend on ref to decide.Moves the choice to the team and they'll only appeal if they think they are cheated.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 27 Oct 23:22

It's not the VAR that's the problem it's the human input which arrives at ridiculous decisions.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Mon 28 Oct 05:53

I thought maybe introducing a limited number of challenges per team, similar to tennis might work
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 28 Oct 08:43

I'm not overly surprised at the mainly negative reaction VAR has generated in the Premiership, as it has received more negative reviews than positive in most of the other countries it's been introduced in.

I suppose it's human nature to rile against the bad decisions made, rather than applaud the bad ones that are overturned. Also, as lpf alludes further up, TV commentators are able to arrive at the correct decision much faster than the VAR officials and with greater accuracy.

Many people mistakenly thought VAR would be like goal line technology, but it can never be that good since it is still being arrived at by subjective opinions, whereas in GLT the ball is either over the line or it isn't. VAR is still very much a work in progress and it will surely get better when all those involved sit down and look at the criticism in a positive manner. The first thing that has already been binned is the reluctance to overrule the ref's original decision. The next has to be to overcome the reluctance of some refs to go and look at the monitor themselves rather than automatically take the opinion of VAR. At least if there's still an error, it's down to the man in the middle, as it should be.

I think we will also see a general reduction in the time taken to arrive at a decision. It has to happen as that is a huge source of frustration to fans at the game.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Mon 28 Oct 08:55

Quote:

donj, Sun 27 Oct 22:30

Use VAR like appeals in tennis so the team appeals and if upheld they still have 3 appeals.When appeals gone they depend on ref to decide.Moves the choice to the team and they'll only appeal if they think they are cheated.


^^^^ Support this whole heartedly.

DunfyDave
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 28 Oct 09:39

Having an appeals system in football won't make the decision-making any easier as there are so many subjective areas involved. In tennis all the technology does is say if the ball was in our out. It's similar in cricket, which also has an appeals system, where the technology decides if the batsman was out or not. Everyone seems to accept the technology's prediction of the flight of the ball.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Mon 28 Oct 09:39

The implementation of VAR is certainly far from optimal - there was clearly a directive this weekend to 'overturn' more decisions, which led to controversy in the Brighton and Arsenal games. I think Arsenal and Everton both have reason to feel aggrieved at the impact VAR had on those games. For me, as it stands, it doesn't seem to be improving decision making - it's just creating a new avenue for controversy, which is the exact opposite of its intention.

The goal Arsenal had disallowed was completely baffling. If anything, Chambers was fouled in the build up to the goal so how that can be deemed a 'clear and obvious' error by the on-pitch official is beyond me.

I also have no idea why refs in the Premiership aren't using the Pitchside monitors. Again, there appears to have been a directive not to use it (I've no idea why, perhaps to minimise time lost to VAR reviews). In Germany, I believe the referee has consulted the pitch side monitor 48 times. In England it's 0.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 28 Oct 10:53

Quote:

Paralex, Sun 27 Oct 23:22

It's not the VAR that's the problem it's the human input which arrives at ridiculous decisions.


100% agree
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Mon 28 Oct 12:01

"Skerla’s goal would probably have been disallowed for a foul on the Jonathan Gould"

would have to be a strange video they watched as Gould left celtic 12 months before. It was David Marshall in goals in 2004

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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Mon 28 Oct 12:42

You’re probably right - my memory’s not what it was 😩
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 28 Oct 12:56

‘Having an appeals system in football won't make the decision-making any easier as there are so many subjective areas involved.’

For me this is problem, for football is still a contact sport and much of the controversy is arising from whether contact between players was illegal or not. I could add contact between the ball and a player’s arms, since that rule now seems open to wide interpretation.

I’m not convinced by the referee reviewing decisions on a pitch side monitor. It puts him under even more pressure, temporarily stops the game of course, and requires him to refocus from a panoramic 3D view to a small 2D version of reality, albeit with the possible advantage of slow motion and a better angle.
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 Re: VAR
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Mon 28 Oct 13:55

But what the pitch side monitor does do is make the accountability clearer.

In Rugby, it's very clear who the decision maker is - the TMO draws the refs attention to an incident they may want to view. They then view the incident together, discuss together, but, in the discussion it's clear the referee is the final decision maker, who takes advice from his assistants.

Regarding the different views - I get that you see different things in 3-D and 2-D, however, at the weekend someone who ONLY had the 2-D view was overruling the on pitch referee who both saw the incident live, AND has access to the 2-D view therefore is the only person capable of seeing 'the big picture' and therefore should be the one who ultimately makes the decision.

If the ref had viewed the decisions, and subsequently overturned his original decisions then great - that's what the system is there for, but that didn't happen.
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