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 Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: fly boy  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 06:55

Some brutal blatant fouling, that went unpunished by inept referring not helped by the linesmen either. Between Arbroath and Alloa who were similarly physical, their suspensions will surely add up and affect them later in the season. I lost count of the amount of late tackles last night.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 07:20

That’s a Dick Campbell team alright. But if they tried to match us and play fitba it wouldn’t have worked.

We’re a small team packed with youngsters who are not physical, it’s all they had.

Just sitting here drenched in my own negativity!
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 08:03

Lots of experienced managers and old pros will try to bully our young lads in this league
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 08:06

Quote:

Berkey, Wed 30 Oct 07:20

That’s a Dick Campbell team alright. But if they tried to match us and play fitba it wouldn’t have worked.

We’re a small team packed with youngsters who are not physical, it’s all they had.


Aye and to think some dotnutters would like to see the Bunnet back at EEP as manager......

Who wants to watch a team packed with hammer throwers every week?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 08:18

Weak ref.

One or two of those challenges, could easily have been a red. Some were cynical and over the top and could have resulted in serious injuries.




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 08:28

Hamilton’s challenge on Dow should have been a straight red, imo.

buffysbuns.wordpress.com
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: arpar  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 08:38

Didn't think many of the tackles were that bad to be honest. Modern footballers like to over react to say the least. Thought the ref had a good game in the main.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 08:58

Like the Ayr Utd game, referee was garbage , some horrendous tackles being dished out, I would also give his 2 assistants a kick up the bottom ,
A guy behind me hit the nail on the head when he shouted " ref , you are $h!t€, you should be refereeing Gala Fairydeen this weekend"

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 11:16

What game were you at arpar? Two of our players limped off when they were substituted. Paton had his Geggan inflicted wound reopened and I'd be surprised if the treatment tables aren't very busy until Saturday. Arbroath followed in the same style as Ayr and pushed and kicked their way through the game. Many of the fouls took place after the ball had gone so the ref missed them.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 11:33

" inept referring not helped by the linesmen either. "

big mis-conception when a comms kit is in use and the ref/assistants are in constant dialogue and they will discuss what they have seen potentially without raising flag also with buzzer system they will notify referee of infringement again potentially without a flag to "sell it".

One example being offside. they will Buzz the ref if someone is in an offside position so they is aware to look over as the attack progresses and then flag if the person then interferes with play.

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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 11:37

Dick complained about Jason Thomson having to go off injured, ignoring the fact that the foul was awarded against him and he was shown the yellow card. He also suggested some of the fouls given against his side were soft. I'm sure he would have had a big grin on his face when he said that!
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 12:02

Arbroath were certainly very physical but surely we’d expect that - I didn’t see any red card offences and thought the ref did ok - reflected in 4 yellows cards for them. When he awarded Arbroath a free kick in the second half there was a derisory cheer from their fans - I suspect they all saw him as a homer.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 12:10

He took far too long to bring out the yellow cards. Expecting them to be physical doesn't make it right. I saw a table before yesterday's game which showed us having the fewest yellow cards in the Championship. No doubt somebody will come on and say that shows we're soft. Ayr and Arbroath were near the top and I'm not surprised after watching our recent games against them.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 12:14

Thought this was gonna be a thread about the problems they're having in Arbroath with inconsiderate dog owners leaving their dogs mess instead of bagging and binning it.
Imagine how relieved I was... 🤣



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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 12:16

If we think Ayr and Arbroath are the dirtiest teams and they have have the highest number of cards does this not suggest that the referees are of a similar mind?
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 12:25

If McKendrick had booked an Arbroath player earlier it might have set a different tone and avoided later bookings,
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: babs woodhouse  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 12:38

Talking to their centre half today he reckons he was lucky not to be sent off
He said Dunfermline deserved it on their second half performance
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: Murphy  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 13:48

I'm struggling to understand what is what is and what is not an legal challenge nowadays especially when it comes to a high ball contest. It appears that double handed push, leading with elbow, arm lock around neck and shirt pulling are all acceptable. Unfortunately ouir team are small and not very physical and usually come off 2nd best.
Arbroath must have committed 8 or 9 fouls last night before the cards were brought out.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: Toumba Libre  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 13:52

Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend Like: 1
Date: Wed 30 Oct 08:18

Weak ref.

One or two of those challenges, could easily have been a red. Some were cynical and over the top and could have resulted in serious injuries.

My thoughts exactly. The ref was too weak and it got pretty farcical.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 13:59

Per the SPFL website:-

Yellow cards
1= Alloa Athletic 21
1= Arbroath 21
3 Ayr United 19
4= Dundee 16
4= Dundee United 16
4= Inverness Caledonian Thistle 16
4= Morton 16
4= Queen of the South 16
9 Partick Thistle 15
10 Dunfermline Athletic 12

Fouls conceded
1 Morton 146
2 Dundee United 135
3 Arbroath 133
4 Ayr United 132
5 Inverness Caledonian Thistle 130
6 Partick Thistle 126
7 Queen of the South 122
8 Alloa Athletic 116
9 Dundeee 106
10 Dunfermline Athletic 103

Make of that what you will. I'm not sure if they include last night's games.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 14:01

Was the "bunnet" not Forfar manager when three (?) of his team were sent off at EEP in a play off second leg a few years back ?
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 14:07

Well done wee eck very interesting breakdown.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: parfection  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 15:10

“If McKendrick had booked an Arbroath player earlier it might have set a different tone and avoided later bookings.”

I agree with this completely. The persistent fouling was allowed for far too long and could have been checked with more timely intervention. It was noticeable that it was done in ‘safe’ areas of the pitch and it did look like a tactic that was deliberately employed. I guess that Dick is using any tactic at his disposal so that his team remains competitive. I’m not in any way condoning the use of foul play, but I’d just occasionally like some of our lads to be just a shade more aggressive too. No one wants a team of cloggers, but we can be and have been bullied out of games. it’s not an easy balance I guess.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: allanwilson10  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 16:16

One of the worst refereeing performances I've seen in a while not helped by his assistants. Not all one way either - one or two decisions went against Arbroath too.

Never heard of him - not sure if he is usually in charge of lower league games - but I hope not to see him again soon.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 16:48

Hope we don’t see him when he gets baldy as he was utter garbage last night
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: jock-par  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 16:50

Think he missed a clear pats penalty for a pull in the box from a corner. Was too slow to get the yellow cards out, but that seems to be the norm in Scottish football - always let the first few go! Also the ‘advantage’ he played near the end when the defender was denying a clear goal scoring opportunity was a joke. Should have been a red card and a free kick on the edge of the box. Terrible performance from the referee

We are Dunfermline, we're on our way back!
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 17:00

lasted less than a min on the highlights. Regardless of any fouls etc you simply cant react the way Ashcroft does and not expect a booking.

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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 17:03

''Never heard of him - not sure if he is usually in charge of lower league games - but I hope not to see him again soon.''

He's been on the list for years. In fact, I wondered if he'd retired as I hadn't come across him this season until last night.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 17:09

Last night was his first game at this level since he had us vs brechin in april 2018

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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 17:17

What has he been doing since then, PP? Premiership games or Leagues 1 and 2?
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 17:24

He doesn't seem to have done a Premiership game since 2017/8. I see he's 50 now. I thought that was retirement age for refs?
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 17:31

A Dr of some sort-mostly League 2 this season.He reffed Morton v Dundee last month in the Championship

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/dr-john-mckendrick/profil/schiedsrichter/1011



Post Edited (Wed 30 Oct 17:33)
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 18:58

That explains it, he is very obviously a Doctor of hair replacement and has practiced on himself
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: USMac  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 19:28

A baldy in disguise?
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: allanwilson10  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 06:14

I would have been at the Brechin game - but can't for the life of me remember him or his name. After that performance he should be retiring instantly lol.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 07:29

I agree with the minority on here that felt that Arbroath weren't as bad as some are making out. A lot of their fouls were Man City style cynical or tactical fouls to stop breaks etc. rather than being dangerous. There were one or two mistimed challenges but nothing too malicious. The one on Ashcroft was late (and would have been a yellow anyway; Ashcroft reacting meant they both got booked and I guess there is an argument that the Arbroath player should have got a yellow for the foul AND a yellow for the head to head nonsense but that is a very rare occurrence) and there was the one on Dow wasn't clever but that was just a physical encounter on a wet and cold midweek.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 07:39

Arbroath being compared to Man City, must be a first
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 04:30

Problem is there seems to be this "its too early in the game for a booking" nonsense that pundits made up and has became a sort of unwritten rule.

c'mon the pars
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 08:28

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Fri 1 Nov 04:30

Problem is there seems to be this "its too early in the game for a booking" nonsense that pundits made up and has became a sort of unwritten rule.


I don't know if refs listen to the pundits advice but I do agree that there's a reluctance by many refs to pull out a card in the early part of a game. In some other countries, like Italy, it's the exact opposite, refs want to establish their authority rather than risk losing control of the game.

I've often heard Italian commentators explaining that northern European refs like to adopt "the British style of refereeing, to let the game grow." In other words, blow less frequently, to let the game flow. Tbh, most of us don't like refs who constantly blow the whistle or are perceived to be card happy, but the other side of the coin is that some players feel encouraged to carry on with the meaty tackles if the ref doesn't act.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: USMac  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 15:23

Problem is, if the ref brings out the cards too early and he doesn't control the game, the ref is out of ammo for the second half.

Long and short of it is, if the offense is a blatant yellow, give the card no matter what half. My view is, if the offense is close to the line, give a talking to in the first half where it might be a card in the second half.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 16:05

Quote:

USMac, Fri 1 Nov 15:23

Problem is, if the ref brings out the cards too early and he doesn't control the game, the ref is out of ammo for the second half.

Long and short of it is, if the offense is a blatant yellow, give the card no matter what half. My view is, if the offense is close to the line, give a talking to in the first half where it might be a card in the second half.


I can't agree with you on this, Mac. If a red or yellow card is justified, it's irrelevant whether the ref flashes it in the first 5 mins or in stoppage time. There's far more risk of losing control if he lets too many fouls go, as it will increase anger and frustration among those players on the receiving end.

Of course, you will always get people who are only too happy to blame the ref, no matter how he officiates. Remember a WC tie between Portugal and Holland? The ref issued 18 yellow cards, 4 of which were double bookings, resulting in reds. I thought every last one was completely justified but I remember Van Basten accusing the ref of having ruined the game. The Portuguese manager may have agreed with him, I'm not sure.

In that game, it was both sets of players who .lost control.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 16:41

The 2010 World Cup final between Holland and Spain was a good example of that-13 yellows and a red with 46 fouls committed and there should've been more reds from memory.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 16:55

Logic says you should expect fewer cards early in the game - unless it is a particularly bad tackle many cards are for an accumulation of offences and not for one individual foul. We tend to moan if the opposition players aren’t booked but would cry foul if our players received an early card.

Refs are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. No doubt tomorrow Q of S will be a bunch of cloggers and get away with murder from a weak ref 😩
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: USMac  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 18:07

GG, I think you misread what I said. I agree with you that if a card is clearly justified, you produce it whenever it occurs. What I'm saying is that if card may or may not be justified -- that old grey area -- you might exercise discretion and not produce the card earlier in the game when a talking to might work better.

As noted in the card-happy games mentioned above, the mere production of a card does not control a game by itself. If the ref does not blow his whistle except to produce a card for a flagrant foul, he's going to lose control of the game after a while. In other words, as a ref, you can't just be a passenger and expect to regain control of a game just because you produce a card. You have to be proactive in how you manage a game.

And in full disclosure, I'm not certified to be a ref, although I've found myself in the middle a number of times.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 19:37

Watching the Dundee v Morton game the ref is doing the same, a few bookable challenges have been given without a card.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 19:39

John McKendrick is the least card happy referee in Scottish football - stats show he issues less cards than any other ref. To me that is a good thing - too many refs and fans have become conditioned to cards being flashed all the time. Fans are forever shouting for cards for any foul almost.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 20:43

Irrespective of the opposition we need to be a bit tougher as a team. Be prepared to go in a bit harder, and yes pick up some bookings.
We get bullied far too easily.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Sat 2 Nov 08:19

Agree bigj, been at least a couple of goals at east end this season that we could have stopped with an intelligent foul as the opposition advanced.

We are very stand off ish in the middle and our full backs are reluctant to get touch right.

I thought turner would be harder in the challenge given his stature but last 2 home games he’s pulled out of a lot and is more likely to get booked for verbal.

Full backs aside this teams needs to be prepared to go through the opposition when its required. We always struggle against united as we always give them too much respect.

Just sitting here drenched in my own negativity!
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 2 Nov 10:43

Quote:

USMac, Fri 1 Nov 18:07

GG, I think you misread what I said. I agree with you that if a card is clearly justified, you produce it whenever it occurs. What I'm saying is that if card may or may not be justified -- that old grey area -- you might exercise discretion and not produce the card earlier in the game when a talking to might work better.

As noted in the card-happy games mentioned above, the mere production of a card does not control a game by itself. If the ref does not blow his whistle except to produce a card for a flagrant foul, he's going to lose control of the game after a while. In other words, as a ref, you can't just be a passenger and expect to regain control of a game just because you produce a card. You have to be proactive in how you manage a game.

And in full disclosure, I'm not certified to be a ref, although I've found myself in the middle a number of times.


I re-read your post Mac and I did misread it. Apologies. I can disclose that I'm a fully qualified ref but gave up a long time ago when my skin became too thin....☺



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: Bouncer  
Date:   Sat 2 Nov 22:53

Was told that 8 players from the Arbroath game missed at least some training this week because of knocks picked up in the game.
Good going to start the same 11.

2014/15 Squealadeal Prediction League Champion

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 Re: Arbroath fouling
Topic Originator: USMac  
Date:   Sun 3 Nov 00:51

No sweat, GG. Earlier this fall, I had to ref 4 games in a row (U12 and U14) without any A/Rs or a break because I forgot to line up the refs. I was in good shape after the first U14 game, but then I pulled a back muscle moving a U12 goal into place. So then I couldn't really run. When I did run, the pain was such that I couldn't care less what the parents were saying about my performance.
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