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 Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 07:23

.... or possibly a commanding defender and perhaps a prolific striker.

We have two good goalkeepers, Ryan Scully is experienced while Cammy Gill is learning his trade, with a handful of first team appearances. At various times, both have been rightly praised for excellent saves in certain games, which have been crucial in picking up points.

At other times, one or the other - or both - have been heavily criticised for not doing enough to prevent a goal or for being solely at fault for conceding. A number of posters have even advocated that the club must go out and bring in a quality goalkeeper in the January transfer window, because frankly, neither Scully nor Gill are good enough, in their opinion.

I can't help but wonder.....

(a) Where is this wonderful goalkeeper just now?
(b) Will he want to come to the Pars?
(c) Is his club (if he has one) willing to release him?
(d) If he doesn't have a club, why is that?
(e) Can we afford his fee and/or wages?
(f) How would this affect dressing room harmony, especially Scully and Gill?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 08:02

So we just accept mediocrity (at best) - to be successful you have to make difficult decisions. I said right at the start of the season that in my opinion we have the 2 weakest keepers in the league and i’ve seen nothing to change that view.

Arbroath signed the keeper who was keeping Scully out of the team - Alloa have 2 very good keepers - Q of S have a very promising youngster on loan - Dundee (who’s keeper was being slaughtered by their fans and got injured) went out and got a loanee from Celtic who looks strong and solid.

I don’t know the answer as I don’t see numerous games from other teams but I’m sure there is someone out there who would strengthen us without breaking the bank. We have the makings of a good team - the goalkeeper is the weak link.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 08:43

Mediocrity is a very harsh term, AJ and unjust in relation to our goalkeepers. Only Dundee United, Arbroath and QOS have conceded fewer league goals, so perhaps your perception that Scully and Gill are the weakest in the Championship is misplaced?

I think the bigger problem is at the otner end - we're not scoring enough. That doesn't automatically mean that the strikers are mediocre either. Chance have to be fashioned before they can be converted, just as goalkeepers alone can't take all the blame when goals are lost.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 09:09

You may have a point - if i’m wrong it won’t be the first time - our defence generally is strong and was last season as well - Devine gets slaughtered on the forum but I like him.

I’d love it if Cammy Gill in particular proves me wrong.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 09:34

''I said right at the start of the season that in my opinion we have the 2 weakest keepers in the league and i’ve seen nothing to change that view.''

''I don’t know the answer as I don’t see numerous games from other teams.''

Spot the contradiction.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 10:10

There is no contradiction - i’m pretty well versed in the goalkeepers in our league - however, less so in the numerous matches from other leagues, reserve teams etc.

Name me a team in our league whose first choice goalkeeper you wouldn’t have more confidence in than Scully or Gill?

Andy J

Post Edited (Mon 11 Nov 10:17)
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 10:45

I've seen goalies have good games against us and I've seen goalies have poor games against us but I haven't seen enough of any of them to say whether they are better than what we've got. A few teams seem to have switched goalies already this season so I'm not convinced the overall standard is that high.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 13:01

I have seen Cammy Bell have fantastic performances against us.

Imagine if we had a goalkeeper who had less fear of a cross than Count Dracula.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: RossDAFC  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 13:12

Easily our weakest position, neither keeper commands their area and neither fill you with confidence. Scully’s kicking is a genuine massive hinderance as seen on Saturday, we couldn’t kick it past half way and as a result found ourselves pinned back constantly. Gill needs more experience at a lower level but ultimately he’s not tall enough or commanding enough.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 13:45

There is only about 3 quality keepers actually playing in Scotland overall. Unless Craig gordon (3rd choice) wants to play for pocket money we have no chance of improving that area as he will be available in Jan.
We may take another keeper but there is no guarantees, Gill is young and learning and young keepers all make mistakes. Keepers that cost £50m are making bad errors. Criticism is way too much, if we had a keeper that made no errors he wouldnt be here. Robinson made less errors but got hounded out by management/fans alike.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: RMGpar  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 13:56

If we were scoring for fun at the other end no one would say anything
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 14:39

Gill not tall enough? He must be over 6 ft surely?
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 15:53

Gills only about 5'10 I'd have thought. Seems very short for a keeper but then again, height isn't everything
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 16:10

In January,Stevie mended something which wasn't broken.

Now the chickens are coming home to roost.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 20:25

Quote:

Sliema Par, Mon 11 Nov 16:10

In January,Stevie mended something which wasn't broken.

Now the chickens are coming home to roost.


Bore off.

Awight Pat!
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 20:43

The Goalkeeper .... Last man free's all ..... Not an easy job and never really get credit for stopping goals but more than often blamed for not stopping them
Go back in time to my time when folk raved about all the great games great teams great players Di Stephano, Puskas, the hampden final Real v Frankfurt 7-3 greatest game ever ..... well no actually ...... worst goalkeepers ever .... aye... you could have dragged two punter from the 127,000 crowd stuck them in the goals and the result would have been the same.... Try watching these old footage clips and the goalie's job was to turn and look at the ball in the back of the net
And my point is .... ? not a clue.... now where did I put my dram :-)
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 20:50

Both are decent enough keepers at this level. I would have preferred to see Gill go out on loan this season though and get some games under his belt somewhere like Cowdenbeath
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: Bouncer  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 22:12

No surprise SP chipping in about him missing his 5ft 9" love child. He was that good he doesn't have another club yet or has he retired at 33?
I totally disagree about your chickens.

Alloa done a decent bit of business getting Jamie McDonald on loan, likewise McCrorie is a future Scotland keeper at QOS. Neither of them would have went on a permanent deal.

Had we let Gill go on loan we would need to bring another in, that might have been too much for our budget. He is still young for a GK and I think he has been getting to right amount of exposure to 1st team football to continue his development here.



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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 22:35

Gill is 6ft 2.
Pars have missed McDonald on a few occasions when he has been available. I would have stuck with Gill, only way to learn is playing first team games. He is more than capable.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 23:03

Gill isn't good enough, and likely won't be good enough at this level for a long time, if ever. I'm not that arsed with regards to hi coming for crosses, that's a harder task than ever now for keepers with regards to the balls in modern football, however his footwork and handling need an absolute massive amount of improvement, he's miles behind both Doohan and McCrorie who are the same age for example.

Our fans tend to painfully overrate our youth players when they come through, before inevitably coming down even harder when it turns out they're not upto the standard, Stuart Morrison is another.

I do prefer Scully but realistically if we're wanting promotion then we need a better keeper.

Robinson wasn't the answer either, his shot on target ratio was incredibly low by the end, anything on target was in.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: gordi-b  
Date:   Mon 11 Nov 23:30

Good post Grant, says it as it is , ihave said all season that this would be our weak point , Scully is experienced but not good enough , Cammy ie inexperienced and not commanding enough no physical presence which good keepers have , 1st division beckons for both

G.B
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 00:01

[Post Deleted] - Deliberately provoking fellow DAFC.net poster(s)
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 01:30

He's barely mentioned it, but Sliema Par believes that we should have kept our ex keeper Lee Robinson.

He very rarely, if ever brings it up tbf.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: Parsbilly  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 04:19

not sure who is more wired to the moon, sliema par or robinson
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: RhinoPars  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 07:15

If I was manager my number one priority would be a keeper in the next transfer window. Scully is not the player he was when first with us, and Gill for me at times is caught back on his heels (and hence unable to dive quickly). Worryingly he likes to stay on his goal line, and for me is not commanding enough in coming out and catching or punching the ball. Both current keepers have their strengths and both have made some great saves, but I would prefer a bigger keeper with more command in the air who could inspire more confidence in the defence.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 08:50

“ Gill is 6ft 2”

He definitely isn’t the same size as Ashcroft. He’s smaller than Nisbet, who is only 6ft as well.

That being said, with his leap I don’t think height is a major issue for him. I’m much more concerned with his positioning, decision making and his apparent fear of catching the ball.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 09:31

part of the problem is probably how spoiled we have been over the years with solid goalkeepers. Dorus,Mcgregor, Stillie (well shot stopping), Murdoch (2nd spell) were all worth a fair few extra points at end of the season with the contributions made. Going back Rhodes and Westy being icons of the club and the teams they were involved with at the time.

Thankfully the keepers we had that didnt have any hands only lasted handful of games, mckenzie, Halliwell, Hvrivnak, Bernardo, Thomson

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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 10:03

Don’t forget Hans Segers - he was famous for doing a handstand when his own team scored - didn’t play long enough to see us score though 😂😂
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 10:30

RhinoPars makes the valid point that Ryan Scully is not the player he was last time round.

He was playing in League 1.

If my views are so ridiculous,how come this thread is attracting so many posts and views and was not, in any way, initiated by me?
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 10:41

SP, didn't Stevie Crawford bring in a new keeper because he didn't want his first-choice goalie to be training part-time with the full-time squad? At the time I thought that was a perfectly reasonable thing to do. It wasn't necessarily a reflection on Robinson's ability but, let's be honest, he was prone to the occasional howler.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 11:29

and to the point above if he was as good as you/he believe he is why is he still looking for a club 6months after contract ended and 12 months after being jettisoned

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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 11:53

“ If my views are so ridiculous,how come this thread is attracting so many posts and views and was not, in any way, initiated by me?”

Maybe some of us don’t believe Lee Robinson was the answer either? Towards the end of Robinson’s time with us, a shot on target was as good as a goal. His shot stopping was horrendous and I believe Gill and Scully have both been better in that aspect. Robinson’s form last season was horrendous and, although he made his kicking look fancy, he hardly ever found a teammate with his kickouts either.

For me, it’s more a problem still not solved, than one that wasn’t there. I heard a lot of people around December/January commenting on this as well, so let’s not pretend that Robinson was the best keeper in the league.
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: parsloyal98  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 12:21

Scully would only start over 1 other goalkeeper in the Championship IMO and that’s in place of Ramsbottom at Morton - who is absolutely rotten and spills everything.

Gill I think has become a victim of years of “he’s got such great potential” and now everyone is expecting him to be showing it. He’s undoubtedly got talent but is years away from being ready yet for this level. We could’ve really done with another goalkeeper in the Summer to allow him to have went out on loan but IIRC Crawford has said how difficult it is finding a loan for a keeper with most sides lower doing having an experienced player in the net already.

If I were us, I’d be doing everything to try and convince Rangers into cutting McCrorie’s loan short with Queen of the South and getting him in. Although young like Gill, he’s so much further on with his development.

We love Dunfermline We do!
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 12:43

Quote:

parsloyal98, Tue 12 Nov 12:21

If I were us, I’d be doing everything to try and convince Rangers into cutting McCrorie’s loan short with Queen of the South and getting him in. Although young like Gill, he’s so much further on with his development.


Not sure I agree with the whole loan philosophy, parsloyal. If you get a player on loan and you have to pay his wages, you're paying good money to develop and improve a player for another club. If the parent club pay his wages, it's just legalised cheating - you're fielding players you can't really afford. Not too different to what the Pars were doing under the previous regime, when we were paying wages we couldn't afford, with borrowed money we never had a hope in he'll of ever repaying.

In the case of young McCrorie, he looked a real talent in the recent game at EEP but what makes you think Rangers would cut short his loan at QOS, where he is playing regularly in the Championship just to send him to EEP, so he could play in the same league? I'd be asking questions if that happened - it's not like we're a feeder club for Therangers, is it? AJ was obviously able to use his Ibrox old boy connections to get the young goalkeeper on loan. SC has been able to get some young players from Hearts in the same way.

Eta. In Italy, some Serie A clubs who send players out on loan to smaller clubs, not only pay the players wages, but also pay the clubs a "development fee", based on the number of first team appearances the loan player makes.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Tue 12 Nov 12:48)
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 Re: Let's go out and buy a goalkeeper.....
Topic Originator: parsloyal98  
Date:   Tue 12 Nov 22:28

I hate loans but I think that will be the kind of market we will be working in, GG. Yeah it’s highly unlikely Rangers do cut it short but was more mentioning McCrorie as a player I’d love to see.

Unless someone is freed by their club, we’re left with loans and keepers who hadn’t been picked up in the Summer etc

We love Dunfermline We do!
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