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 League Cup Final
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 10:18

I heard Tam Cowan on "Off the Ball" yesterday saying that BT Sport were putting on a 9 hour extravaganza around today's Scottish LC final today, but I thought it was probably a wind up. It isn't. They've already kicked off with "Old Firm Breakfast." Not that I'm watching it. The rain drops running down my living room window are much more entertaining.

If this weather continues, I may tune in at 3 pm and see if it's any good. I think it might be quite tasty for the neutrals - maybe not so much for the quality of the football but there will be plenty of edge, with both sides desperate to win, for different reasons.

I would have preferred a final between two different teams, as it would have been the high point of their season, but it is what it is.

I wonder why the 12 pm kick off to stop fans of both teams getting tanked up before the game has been abandoned? Is it a case of he who pays the fiddler calls the tune? I hope this decision doesn't produce another spike of violent incidents both in the streets of Glasgow and in the homes of fans who can't handle the fact that their team lost a game of football.



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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 11:12

I think cup finals are usually always played at 3pm even Old Firm finals. I'll certainly be watching. Even as a neutral an Old Firm final can be pulsating viewing. Both sides are in good form and hopefully we will see a few goals.

There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody is wrong.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: the saline hill puma  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 11:17

Game could be off if the rain keeps up
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 16:27

Thankfully column wasn't refereeing the game yesterday. Forster was way off his line. Much worse than the Morton keeper.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 17:01

Who wants to bet that VAR will be introduced now in Scotland.

matt forsyth
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 17:02

Therangers were absolutely mugged today. Hard to believe how dominant they were, how many chances they created and failed to take.

Fraser Forster was immense. As the totally unbiased Chris Sutton said in commentary "Even Ally McCoist won't have any trouble trouble picking the MOM today."



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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 17:04

That was absolutely magic. I have no love for Celtic but can you imagine how utterly dejected the (the) Rangers fans are right now. Can you even imagine? Brilliant.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 17:05

Only caught the last five minutes but he's always been a quality keeper so I'm not surprised he's put in a big performance.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 17:11

Aye Rusty but to balance that out can you imagine how absolutely delighted Neil Lennon must be feeling right now.
GG, I assume you were being sarcastic as Sutton is a terrible commentator when Celtic are involved.

There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody is wrong.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 17:18

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 8 Dec 17:11

Aye Rusty but to balance that out can you imagine how absolutely delighted Neil Lennon must be feeling right now.
GG, I assume you were being sarcastic as Sutton is a terrible commentator when Celtic are involved.


Not sarcasm, TOWK, as that is hurtful, but I may have been guilty of supreme irony...



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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 17:23

Its a funny old game
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 17:27

Quote :-

Topic Originator: eastendalloapar like | nolike
Date: Sun 8 Dec 17:01

Who wants to bet that VAR will be introduced now in Scotland.

And so it should be......... as todays final exemplified that
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 17:31

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 8 Dec 17:11

Aye Rusty but to balance that out can you imagine how absolutely delighted Neil Lennon must be feeling right now.
GG, I assume you were being sarcastic as Sutton is a terrible commentator when Celtic are involved.


I don't mind Lennon to be honest. Christ, maybe I'm a closet Celtic fan.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 18:25

Who gives a flying f1ck
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 18:40

Alex Rae and McCoist both said the Cellic scorer was a yard offside ,it was never that obvious ,a foot at most

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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: ParfectXI  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 19:16

Any manager that was maybe thinking of putting a bid in for Morelos must surely be thinking again after today! Could easily have had 5 or even 6 yellow cards and possibly even a straight red when he raked his studs down (can’t remember his name)‘s Achilles. Would be a complete liability in a competitive league!
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: FRED1981  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 19:24

that goalkeeping display was up with Eddie Connachan in the 1961 final what I witnessed that night was unbelievable.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 19:29

Morelos is an odious cheating turd.
Fraser Forster has been a superb signing for Celtic. Not sure what the management team were thinking, playing Gunn ahead of him?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 20:27

If Sevco had Nisbet instead of Morelos they would have been picking up the silverware at the end of that game
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 20:47

"Thankfully column wasn't refereeing the game yesterday. Forster was way off his line. Much worse than the Morton keeper."

Can somebody confirm/refute - is it not the assistant referee that calls goalkeeper position fault(s) at penalties ?
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 21:15

Seems like there are a lot of closet Cellic fans among the Pars faithful. As a completely impartial observer, Sevco were robbed. Winning a cup by a blatantly offside "goal" is no way to win any cup. If there was any justice it should be a replay.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 21:24

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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: JimMcDAFC  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 21:57

Would like to see both the bigot bros out of scottis h football but don't hate Celtic as much as i do the new Rangers. I think this could inspire the new Rangers to win the title though.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 22:12

Morelos has a lot of skill but he also cheats a lot and has an evil streak.Pity for him as he'll never get to the point his skill could take him to because of the second bad point I mentioned.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Pars Kebab  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 22:24

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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: BlackLight  
Date:   Sun 8 Dec 23:49


The curse of Sevco...

Maybe the price that Sevco fans have to pay for supporting the reanimated corpse of their old club is that they'll never beat Celtic?

Is that a price they'd be willing to pay? I suspect not.

Maybe they should have kept their club alive.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 01:17

I am no lover of either of the Old Firm but Morelos is a great player who in my opinion will be playing in the English Premiership or other top European League next season.
Not a likeable guy by all accounts but he has been different class this season both domestically and in Europe and I don't think the events of today will disrupt things for him too much.

Awight Pat!

Post Edited (Mon 09 Dec 01:17)
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 05:57

Have to say the best bit about all of this is that Gerrard must be spewing! 😂

Don't like the way he's bought into the whole rangers siege mentality, he's even managed to set a tone at rangers that has made them even more unlikeable so for that alone, the fact they dominated 3/4 of the game and had their pocket picked... Funny as f*ck!
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 07:19

Topic Originator: Paralex like | nolike - 1
Date: Sun 8 Dec 21:15

Seems like there are a lot of closet Cellic fans among the Pars faithful. As a completely impartial observer, Sevco were robbed. Winning a cup by a blatantly offside "goal" is no way to win any cup. If there was any justice it should be a replay.

Can you explain how you arrived at your conclusion, Paralex? Everybody on this thread is in agreement that Sevco were mugged/robbed. Some posters found it funny, perhaps because they dislike the arrogant, entitled stance adopted by everyone connected with the Ibrox club, especially a large proportion of their fan base. Gerrard has bought right into this siege mentality, although perhaps it's all a clever act, like Alex Ferguson employed at Aberdeen and Man U.

I've never hidden my distaste for the original Rangers, a club who flourished on religious bigotry for well over a century. They were just another Glasgow club until Celtic were formed with their Irish Catholic roots. Those who despised what Celtic stood for then aligned themselves with Rangers, from the Boardroom down. Imagine that - a club whose sole raison d'etre was hatred of another club and its fans......

The new club had a great opportunity to make a fresh start and distance itself from the cultural Irish baggage, revolving around a skirmish which took place almost 330 years ago. Who else gives a flying one? Sadly, the new incarnation is even worse, in many respects. They have no humility or shame whatsoever. They still believe they are the same club and that the rest of Scottish football stabbed their club in the back.

Celtic are not much better, but better they are. They've never had a selective policy of signing only players who attended certain schools although until Jock Stein arrived in 1965, they'd only ever had Catholic managers throughout their history. Not great but better.

Does this make me and others on this thread ''closet Cellic fans'' ? I don't think so, but I do realise you weren't being entirely serious. I can't speak for everyone but maybe as Pars fans we don't really have any time for either Glasgow club, but maybe our dislike of one is greater than the other?



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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 09:29

Maybe GG, I can remove myself from the religious side of things from both teams. I've lived with it first hand since I was a kid and I have to say I like both teams and in some ways identify with both because I have supported both in Europe at the games since I was a kid.

I just look at yesterday's game as a one off game of football between two teams of players, without considering any baggage that might come with them and say that the team wearing the blue strips were badly served by the officials because the winning goal was offside. However it was a great game for the big Celtic goalie and I am very pleased for him. For me it will be better if Celtic don't continue to win everything. It would also be better if some of the chasing pack can win now and again. But that seems less likely.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 09:40

I watched the highlights last night and if I was a Rangers fan I would be gutted that they did not win that game yesterday.
Whats more funny is the utter rage coming from them after the game especially as Celtics goal was offside!
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 09:57

I didn't hang around for any after match reactions EEP but do I detect a certain amount of enjoyment in the misfortunes of the boys in blue?
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 10:20

Quote:

Paralex, Mon 9 Dec 09:57

I didn't hang around for any after match reactions EEP but do I detect a certain amount of enjoyment in the misfortunes of the boys in blue?


No detection skills needed. I can explicitly state that I took massive enjoyment from the the Rangers being mugged yesterday. I don't like Celtic but Rangers are next level awfulness.

I've met a fair few decent Rangers fans in my time but they're outnumbered by absolute mutants.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 10:28

Well maybe I've lived a sheltered life Rusty and haven't come across many of the disagreeable types that you have so I continue to try to be magnanimous.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 11:12

My assertion regarding closet Cellic fans is purely on the basis of the general feeling I get from the selection of posts here and my impression is that we are coming out in favour of the green more than the blue. It may be that as some posters suggest it's because they dislike one more than the other. I suppose I have always been fairly careful in that regard because as a Pars supporter living and working in Glasgow there has always been some pressure from friends and colleagues to come out in favour of one or the other big two Glasgow teams and I have never done that. But I get an impression of partiality here.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 11:19

Rangers will struggle to face a worse celtic performance. Morgan up top first half was poor. Edouard was non existent and didnt even chase down in final 15mins. That said the workrate of the 9 other celtic players showed was phenomenal. Christie showed he can do the leg work side and not just "buzz" in a winning side.

Didnt believe players who were sent off were eligible to collect medal/take part in presentation/lap of honour. Certainly didnt stop Frimpong yesterday.

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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: The Toun Clock  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 13:04

"Didnt believe players who were sent off were eligible to collect medal/take part in presentation/lap of honour. Certainly didnt stop Frimpong yesterday."

It really shouldn't be an issue, silly rule if true. Glad the boy was out on the park celebrating.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 14:14

Frimpong's decision to foul Morelos was, in retrospect, a great decision - a bit like the Suarez handball in 2010. He played a key role in Celtic's win.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 17:14

Forster was mince towards the end of his time at Southampton-chucking them in on a weekly basis before he got dropped.He never looks comfortable with the ball at his feet either but fair play he's always done a job for Celtic and won them that game.

I read that in 16/17 he conceded 45.2% of all shots faced-the only goalkeeper with a worse record in EPL history at that time was Chris Kirkland in 2010 who conceded 45.4% of shots faced.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 17:45

Quote:

Paralex, Mon 9 Dec 09:29

Maybe GG, I can remove myself from the religious side of things from both teams. I've lived with it first hand since I was a kid and I have to say I like both teams and in some ways identify with both because I have supported both in Europe at the games since I was a kid.

I just look at yesterday's game as a one off game of football between two teams of players, without considering any baggage that might come with them and say that the team wearing the blue strips were badly served by the officials because the winning goal was offside. However it was a great game for the big Celtic goalie and I am very pleased for him. For me it will be better if Celtic don't continue to win everything. It would also be better if some of the chasing pack can win now and again. But that seems less likely.


I get where you're coming from, but you must be one of a kind, Paralex. I have friends in Glasgow who are not the slightest bit interested in football, but this all changes when the Gruesome Twosome meet. I'm genuinely intrigued as to how you can remove yourself from the religious/sectarian divide, given that you appear to have a strong Christian outlook, going by previous posts. (I used to want Rangers and Celtic to do well in Europe when I was young and innocent.) How can you look the other way when the two sets of fans appear to exist just to hate one another. A plague on both their houses, as someone once said.

Nobody would argue that the Blue Bigots deserved to win the game and that the only goal should have been chalked off. Forster had a crazy day. Someone likened it to Eddie Connachan's display in the 1961 SC Final and I've never heard any Pars fan say that Celtic were robbed that day. Football throws up this kind of game now and again where one team plays the football and the other team scores the goal(s).



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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 18:34

I arrived in Glasgow at the age of 8 as a strongly confirmed Dunfermline Athletic supporter and I was also passionate about football in general. Glasgow in the 60's was a paradise for young football fans, almost the centre of world football. I was brought up to respect people of other culture and religion.I was baptised in Cairns Church Cowdenbeath as an infant. But I didn't become a Christian until I was 16 after a boy in my class at school influenced me greatly and explained how to become a Christian. I then came under the influence of the great Aberdonian Church of Scotland minister George Philip, whose Glasgow Church was almost next door to the tenement flat we lived in. This man just had such a passion to teach the Christian gospel and sectarianism had no part in his life. When the orange band passed the front of our church after the service he would disappear inside the church because that kind of incitement had nothing to do with the gospel.

The bigotry in Glasgow has nothing to do with Christianity it is socio political and reflects the tensions in Northern Ireland.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 20:20

Quote :-

I'm genuinely intrigued as to how you can remove yourself from the religious/sectarian divide, given that you appear to have a strong Christian outlook, going by previous posts.

(I used to want Rangers and Celtic to do well in Europe when I was young and innocent.) How can you look the other way when the two sets of fans appear to exist just to hate one another. A plague on both their houses, as someone once said.

Nobody would argue that the Blue Bigots deserved to win the game and that the only goal should have been chalked off.

GG ...perhaps his strong Christian believe is why he can remove himself
I was brought up beside a Catholic family and John Hanlon was my best pal we both supported the Pars in fact it was Johns uncle George that took us to our first game at EEP ...Pars v the Tic and we were hooked and attended every Pars game both home and away ...The flute band used to parade down our street and Johns Mum and Dad would wave to them from their upstair window and the band would wave back Many of our Pals back then were Rangers supporters but we all got on win or loose... I've been to Pars games in the Rangers bus with my scarf on and was accepted
I really do get somewhat annoyed by the keyboard warrior talk and descriptions of Rangers and Celtic
The biggot brothers, the Gruesome Twosome, a club whose sole raison d'etre was hatred of another club and its fans....
Shame on you GG and all the other Pars fans who want to be seen as keyboard heroes ...you are no better with these comments than the fans you purport to demean ..... I thought you were better than that GG
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 20:33

There are undoubtedly many “supporters” of both sides who should be ashamed of their views - it is completely unfair to tar all of them with the same brush though - my brother in law and nephew are both season ticket holders at Celtic and neither are bigoted in any way.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 20:52

Quote:

Buspasspar, Mon 9 Dec 20:20

I really do get somewhat annoyed by the keyboard warrior talk and descriptions of Rangers and Celtic
The biggot brothers, the Gruesome Twosome, a club whose sole raison d'etre was hatred of another club and its fans....
Shame on you GG and all the other Pars fans who want to be seen as keyboard heroes ...you are no better with these comments than the fans you purport to demean ..... I thought you were better than that GG


Sorry to have disappointed you, BPP and fallen short of your standards. I've never thought of myself as a keyboard warrior, but there you go. I just can't be bothered with all that sectarian p!$h which surrounds the two Glasgow clubs. (I'll not call them any bad names if that makes you feel better.) I visited Derry (or Londonderry if you prefer.) That was a real eye opener for me, with giant murals of youngsters who died in the conflict in the Republican quarter and red, white and blue kerbstones in the Loyalist areas. All that nonsense has been exported to Scotland. It has nothing to do with football. If you and Paralex can rise above that, good on you. It makes me really angry that there isn't the will to try and eradicate this from Scottish society, be that by education and/or closing stadiums where the fans of these clubs are demonstrably guilty of unacceptable sectarian behaviour, be it singing or worse.

The cynic in me thinks that nobody wants to rid Scottish football of this cancer in our society because it perpetuates a fierce and eternal rivalry. How many times have we been fed the lie that "Scottish football needs a strong Rangers and/ or Celtic"? No, it doesn't. It needs a number of clubs who can compete with them and mount a genuine title challenge, something that has happened since the early 80s, when both Aberdeen and Dundee United were champions.

Was Scottish football poorer then than now?



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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 22:36

GG some good points but miles of the mark How can we eradicate it from Scottish society when we had Catholic and Protestant schools ?? I too have been to the same areas that you refer to and I was genuinely gobsmacked at the loyalist fervour ....but cannot see any evidence of it being imported here in Scotland

A cancer ? .... strong words GG

We are not fed a lie we need them for the financial support of the premier clubs who depend on them Which is why we have the current set up

Were we poorer then than now ? No because as I have posted a few times the 2 league Scottish system with a 2 point win gave the Aberdeens, Dundee Utd, et al a chance to win the league but that has gone

My auld Pal Pilmur Smith rip told me the first thing the financial director did at half time was count the bums on seats to see if the Jambo's had made any money
a sad fact but true

Many would love to see the auld firm go elsewhere and it would give many teams a chance to be champions but at what cost ?



Post Edited (Mon 09 Dec 22:38)
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 22:36

I would have to say that I never thought the orange bands to be innocent, certainly not the bands I witnessed in Glasgow. They often deliberately marched past RC churches during their services and made more noise as they did so. There was a deliberate attempt to intimidate and that is not a worthy pursuit for a supposedly Christian organisation. It is not Christianity that is the problem, it is people and their propensity to cause trouble and strife. But much of it is mindless with a gang mentality and a desire to strike out against anyone who may be different.

It is not wrong to have different opinions or beliefs to other people. I would say it is vitally important to work out what we personally believe concerning our existence and destiny but I am sure not going to help others to believe by being arrogant, disrespectful or abusive towards them.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: coventrypar  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 22:58

Christianity can ( and maybe should) be as simple as being about Grace. Those two divides of the same tribe don’t half make a meal of it. It’s pathetic.

"If you have no kind words to say you should say nothing more at all"
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Mon 9 Dec 23:55

Aye Coventrypar but very few of those who express bigotry through the avenue of football would, I imagine, claim any meaningful association with Christian faith.



Post Edited (Mon 09 Dec 23:58)
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 10 Dec 06:50

''GG some good points but miles of the mark How can we eradicate it from Scottish society when we had Catholic and Protestant schools ?? I too have been to the same areas that you refer to and I was genuinely gobsmacked at the loyalist fervour ....but cannot see any evidence of it being imported here in Scotland''

You will know that state funding of Catholic schools was brought in in 1918, to try and stem the endemic bullying of immigrant Irish Catholic children in Scottish schools? Sadly sectarian bigotry was alive and well long before Catholic schools, particularly in western Scotland. 100 years on though, it might be worth trying to reintegrate all schools under a non denominational banner, although I fear the Catholic clergy would oppose that as it would further erode their power..... You may also be aware that many fans who regularly attend games at Ibrox and Parkhead do not come from Scotland but from across the Irish sea.... from areas where they are segregated to keep the lid on a flimsy peace....

''A cancer ? .... strong words GG''

I absolutely stand by that description. A rivalry based on pure hatred cannot be considered healthy by any stretch. Young children are taken to games and learn to shout orange/fenian barstewards at opposing players and fans. ''Up to our knees in Fenian blood''? Wtf? Just because you and some others have managed to get on quite well with neighbours of either persuasion doesn't mean we don't have a huge, self-perpetuating problem in Scottish society. An example of a healthy rivalry might be that between Milan and Inter in Italy. Derbies there are very passionate but it's not uncommon for members of the same family to be on opposite sides. I'd be gobsmacked to find similar examples relating to the OF - aterm both sets of fans dislike, btw.

''We are not fed a lie we need them for the financial support of the premier clubs who depend on them Which is why we have the current set up''

If OF support wasn't based on hatred of the other side, both clubs would still have a large following, but they would not hoover up fans from all over the country to the same extent, so more fans would follow other (local) clubs, leading to a more equitable championship. You will be aware that children as young as 2 are regularly taken along to Ibrox and Parkhead in full replica kits, to be indoctrinated into the respective brands of sectarianism? No doubt these children will also have matching pyjamas, curtains and bedspreads etc. and you don't have to go to Glasgow to buy them.

''Were we poorer then than now ? No because as I have posted a few times the 2 league Scottish system with a 2 point win gave the Aberdeens, Dundee Utd, et al a chance to win the league but that has gone''

You're kidding yourself on if you believe that, BPP. If you revise any 3 pts for a win league table to 2, you'll find it remains ostensibly unchanged. The real change which scuppered any chance provincial clubs had was the change to home clubs keeping their own gate money. From then on, the rich could only get richer and guess who drove that change through, by threatening to jump ship and move down to England if other clubs didn't agree? (The Pars were one of the clubs who voted for it, btw.)

''There are undoubtedly many “supporters” of both sides who should be ashamed of their views - it is completely unfair to tar all of them with the same brush though - my brother in law and nephew are both season ticket holders at Celtic and neither are bigoted in any way.''

Apologies if that's how I came across. I did say further up that it is a sizeable proportion of their fan base. Obviously there are decent supporters of both clubs, who are ashamed of the excesses of the more moronic elements in their support. I worked with colleagues who became friends on both sides of the divide for many years and the worst thing I could level at any of them was a high degree of smugness the day after a win by their team and I couldn't begrudge them that....



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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: rossmcno1  
Date:   Tue 10 Dec 07:47

“ GG some good points but miles of the mark How can we eradicate it from Scottish society when we had Catholic and Protestant schools ?? I too have been to the same areas that you refer to and I was genuinely gobsmacked at the loyalist fervour ....but cannot see any evidence of it being imported here in Scotland ”

Buspasspar- you need to visit either Larkhall, or Bridgeton. It is being imported and it is getting worse.



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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 10 Dec 08:21

Good Post GG and I have taken all points on board

Rossmcno1 Thanks for pointing that out I have never been through to that area for over 60 years
My Gran had relations just outside Airdrie and I remember we had to get 3 buses from her home in Kincardine to get there



Post Edited (Tue 10 Dec 09:06)
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Tue 10 Dec 10:34

Some good points GG. It does seem that the big two Glasgow teams have that stranglehold on the game in Scotland and that they have manipulated the situation even more in the ways that you describe.

Maybe in years to come with increasing secularisation in Scotland reasons for conflict between RC and protestant will become less intense because people will be less clued up as to why there was any conflict in the first place. But increasing secularisation is leading to other problems within society. The Christian gospel offers hope to people like nothing else. It provides power to overcome the various addictions that are blighting the lives of so many of our young folk and provides answers to the greatest problems we face.

Let's get rid of ugly sectarian rivalries in football but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: JimMcDAFC  
Date:   Tue 10 Dec 11:17

I disagree that we need the 2 big glasgow clubs and their bigger support. If you had four or more teams all with a realistic chance of winning the league every season then I would think that the support of everyone of those clubs in contention would increase enough to equal any money they would make from the old firm fixtures. Success or real chance of success in football increases your support without a doubt. I think Hibs were getting really good crowds when they were successful in the championship if I remember correctly.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 10 Dec 11:33

The loss of Celtic and Rangers would be a calamity IMO.

The best supported clubs in the country, by a long way - that just does not make commercial sense of any kind.

TV would be denied their biggest box office attraction and would not be that keen on what’s left.

The quality of best players in the SPL would drop significantly because the “new” top clubs simply could not afford to have them.

Then there is European competition with new top clubs in contention.

Would never get beyond qualifying games against mediocre opposition.

Classic “can’t live with them etc., etc “
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Tue 10 Dec 12:38

I saw something on Twitter the other day about Scotland needing a Strong Celtic and Rangers;

"Major trophies with Rangers out of the top league - 12, 7 different winners,

Major trophies with Dundee Utd out the top league - 10, only 1 winner......

Scottish football needs a strong Dundee United....."
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 10 Dec 14:08

Quote:

Paralex, Tue 10 Dec 10:34

"Some good points GG. It does seem that the big two Glasgow teams have that stranglehold on the game in Scotland and that they have manipulated the situation even more in the ways that you describe."

They have a vice-like death grip. On any given Saturday, the attendance at either Ibrox or Parkhead dwarfs all the others put together. How can that help the game to flourish when the home teams keep all the gate money? And that's before we look at how the sponsorship money is divided up. Large sums for finishing 1st or 2nd in the Premiership and then an astonishing drop for the team finishing 3rd. Would you like to hazard a guess as to who might have cooked this up?

"Maybe in years to come with increasing secularisation in Scotland reasons for conflict between RC and protestant will become less intense because people will be less clued up as to why there was any conflict in the first place. But increasing secularisation is leading to other problems within society. The Christian gospel offers hope to people like nothing else. It provides power to overcome the various addictions that are blighting the lives of so many of our young folk and provides answers to the greatest problems we face."

Hope springs eternal, but the reality is that many children are learning intolerance and bigotry from older friends or members of their families.

"Let's get rid of ugly sectarian rivalries in football but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water
"

How exactly do you propose we do that and who is the baby you're referring to? I fear there is more chance of getting rid of racial hatred in the southern states of the USA.



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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 10 Dec 14:18

Quote:

veteraneastender, Tue 10 Dec 11:33

The loss of Celtic and Rangers would be a calamity IMO.

The best supported clubs in the country, by a long way - that just does not make commercial sense of any kind.

TV would be denied their biggest box office attraction and would not be that keen on what’s left.

The quality of best players in the SPL would drop significantly because the “new” top clubs simply could not afford to have them.

Then there is European competition with new top clubs in contention.

Would never get beyond qualifying games against mediocre opposition.

Classic “can’t live with them etc., etc “


You can relax, VEE, we're not going to lose them - nobody else wants them. It's not for want of trying either. How many times have they tried to skip off down to England in the last 60 years or so? Yes, the TV sponsorship money would fall off without them as the main attraction, but they get most of it anyway.

If the SPFL had anybody with baws running it, they would devise a linear allocation of the monies based on league position, instead of the present lopsided system and while they were at it, they might make it compulsory to hand over e.g. 25% of the gate money to the away team in league games. This redistribution of wealth would help make the smaller clubs more competitive and improve our game but I'm not holding my breath....



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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 12 Dec 10:10

The baby GG is the Christian faith, the Gospel, the Good News. Full of power to revolutionise individuals and nations. It is "the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes." Oh but I forgot, we weren't created by God, we evolved from a prebiotic soup!! The theory of macro evolution is on it's way out and won't survive the next 20 years. Micro evolution is really devolution because rather than enhancing the genome it degrades it. The fact of a transcendent, powerful mind behind the creation of the universe is becoming increasingly undeniable from a scientific point of view. But Who is He? I believe He is the Father of Jesus, whose birth we celebrate in 13 days time. I didn't always believe that but He introduced Himself to me in 1968 when I was camping in a tent on Petticur beach with two pals. He changes people's lives. When we experience His forgiveness, love and care for us, it makes us want to be kind to others. He is changing people's lives in Scotland right now. But there I am pushing my religion down other people's throats again.



Post Edited (Thu 12 Dec 10:11)
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Thu 12 Dec 10:49

Yes, you are. Get this garbage onto the Off Topic forum if you must post it.
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 Re: League Cup Final
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 12 Dec 14:20

I do beg your pardon, kelty, I was just answering a legitimate question by GG.
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