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 Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 18:33

I quite fancy this game tonight. I see the bookies have Wolves as rank outsiders. I think they are well capable of upsetting the odds. They're well suited to playing away from home, whereas Man U prefer teams who play on the front foot.

Could be a fascinating contest. On BT Sport.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Wed 15 Jan 18:33)
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 18:54

Thanks GG I hadn't seen this was on!
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 19:03

I'm usually wrong GG but I fancy Wolves tonight ....good attacking team
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 19:20

Quote:

londonparsfan, Wed 15 Jan 18:54

Thanks GG I hadn't seen this was on!


I wonder who you'll be rooting for, lpf? 😉



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 19:52

I'd rather potentially play United than Wolves 😉
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 20:03

What a complete farce the new handball rule is.



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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 20:07

Var yet again ruining a game - a law that has applied for about 140 years re accidental handball sacrificed for this stupid computer game nonsense
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 20:21

Quite handy bet365 as wife has telly.It's streaming there.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 20:36

Quote:

Parahandy, Wed 15 Jan 20:07

Var yet again ruining a game - a law that has applied for about 140 years re accidental handball sacrificed for this stupid computer game nonsense


VAR not to blame, parahandy. It's just enforcing the nonsensical new hand ball law. It's only accidental hand ball if it is unintentionally played by a defender but is punishable with a free kick if it hits an attacker's hand or arm....



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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 20:40

Exactly Paul Ince has just made the point that if that had been the other way round and the ball had hit the defender then it wouldn't have been a penalty.

I can see what they were trying to do when they changed the law but it does seem extremely harsh for goals like that to be disallowed.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 20:44

Are people still blaming VAR for rule changes completely unrelated to it?
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 21:09

The rule changed is not unrelated to VAR - it was VAR that suddenly started the debate on handball and that then led to the Law being changed. Not VARS fault that the Law introduced is stupid but VARS fault it was changed in the first place
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 21:18

It wasnt to do with VAR. If VAR didnt exist the goals that caused the rule to be changed would have been broadcast and debated on TV anyway.

Goals scored by Boly, Lacazette and Aguero were all cited as examples of goals that people felt shouldn't stand. The hard part is drafting rules that can differentiate between those types of handballs and the completely unavoidable one in today's game. Its nigh on impossible.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 21:54

Goals that people felt shouldn't stand - despite 140 years precedence where no-one had an issue. But now because we have VAR which takes the decision away from the referee we will tinker where no tinkering was really needed at the whim of TV.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 22:09

That's just completely wrong mate. Folk have been debating hand balls for god knows how long. Maradona? Balde? Henry? Raul? I could be here all night listing dodgy decisions.

And it's not like the rules haven't changed in 140 years either. The rules of the game are unrecognisable now compared to the original rules.

It just so happened that there were a lot of goals that amplified the problem that some goals scored with the hand shouldn't count.

The most clear one was arguably Boly's where there was clearly no intent to use his hand to score a goal but the ball would never have gone in had he not handled. The rules as they were said it was no free kick as it was accidental but it seems ludicrous that a goal like that can be scored. It really doesnt have anything to do with VAR no matter how much you tell yourself it does.

The offside rule has changed loads in the past few years and probably will again in the future and its been nothing to do with VAR. It's just simply that the rules are continually reviewed and an update published at the end of every season.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 22:15

VAR fine but the ref should look and decide,not some guy miles away using a micrometer to check.Advise through his earpiece and say he should check but leave the ref in charge.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 22:19

Would you rather see another cheating Argie 'hand of Devil'/ and Tierry Henry (v Ireland) goal go unchecked?

I think VAR is fine. Offside law needs changing though, so that if there's any part of the attacker onside, the goal stands.

I once had a discussion with a ref who insisted ref's mistakes were a valid part of the game. I disagree. I want the right result.

The technology and interpretation needs to improve but I can't see how anyone can justify allowing ref's mistakes to go unchallenged on the absurd basis that 'they even out over a season'.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 22:32

Football used to be fun.
How long are we from a VAR decision ending up in court due to the sheer volume of money involved?
££££ this.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 22:40

VAR would work fine if it wasn't run by referees :)


Lineker ran a poll on Twitter the other week-over 400, 000 votes and only 29% were in favour of VAR.Hardly conclusive but seems to be losing backing by the week with banners and chants appearing on a regular basis as well as players beginning to speak out. There's been plenty VAR decisions/non decisions I haven't agreed with.

Tonight's incident was about the hand-ball rule rather than VAR I would have to say but with every goal getting checked now there are no spontaneous celebrations any longer in PL games. There are frequent, prolonged stoppages that I feel take away from the game having seen VAR in practice.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 22:41

I was going to include that the Irish FA were threatening legal action over the Henry handball in my earlier post. I dont think VAR will have too much impact from that perspective as you already had trial by TV of referees decisions anyway. Now it's just a mixture of ref and VAR.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 22:47

@parathletic - I would agree there have been problems with the way it's been implemented in the EPL and even IFAB have come out and said that there has been significant issues with its use for offside but its an over reaction to say that people dont celebrate goals any more.

I've only ever seen one muted celebration and that was because the striker looked more than likely off side and VAR confirmed that they were. Not much different from a linesman putting their flag up late.

They need to be quicker in their decisions and if they actually showed what was being reviewed on the screen then fans would know why some decisions were taking a long time.

I agree the offside rule should be changed so that any part of the body (not the hand) is in line and they should be on side. It wont eradicate some tight decisions that need to be made but it would help reduce the number of tough calls that need a long time to review.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 22:54

No problem with Maradona, Boli and Henry's goals - ref called it as he saw it. He is the decision maker and his word is law on the field. This is a VAR problem - ref saw the incident and made his decision that's fine. The argument re Refs mistakes and the right result is spurious - unless every throw in, tackle, corner just outside the arc, etc is checked then mistakes such as giving a throw in to the wrong team are ignored. These can all lead to game changing moments - so don't think for a moment that VAR in any way ensures that there are no mistakes that don't impact on the result of matches
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 23:18

Can't solve everything at one fell swoop, Parahandy.

I've seen goals disallowed that I would have allowed to stand. I think the only problem is the very marginal decisions.

I wonder if anyone remembers that 2-2 game we played in a cup against Ross County. Was it Gardyne who yanked our defender over by the collar when they broke away to score the equaliser? That was something the ref didn't see. I'd much rather have VAR with all its teething problems than have mistakes like that in matches. Call me old-fashioned, I believe justice is better than injustice.



Post Edited (Wed 15 Jan 23:28)
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 23:35

Even Maradona himself agrees with it:

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/var-would-have-ruled-out-hand-god-goal-maradona-admits

Also admits to hand balling it on the line against the Soviet Union which I'd forgotten about.

VAR wont eradicate all mistakes, it was never intended to but it already has stopped plenty of referees mistakes from happening.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Wed 15 Jan 23:56

There is no money in Scottish football to implement it anyway.Even if there was I think we would be better served spending it elsewhere.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 16 Jan 00:17

The cynic in me says that money will be found when one of you know who get shafted by a decision that would have been easily reversed if VAR existed.
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 Re: Man U v Wolves
Topic Originator: Pars Kebab  
Date:   Thu 16 Jan 13:28

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