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 Championship today
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 12:30

I see the Ayr v Morton game is off so Arbroath v QOS is the only Championship fixture. It's often blowing a hoolie up there so I suppose it's business as usual. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise that our game today was postponed because of the Challenge Cup.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 12:56

Big chance for Arbroath to move into a play-off spot!

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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 15:07

Arbroath take the lead and Andy Ryan scores for Airdrie.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 15:14

Smith with an Assist and Ryan with the goal
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 15:25

Don't know whether to look up or down!

Arbroath in the premiership?
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 15:27

The Hertz are in absolute freefall.

Awight Pat!
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 15:36

Arbroath 2 nil.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: fly boy  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 16:07

Can’t believe Arbroath game on. Probably a farce with the wind.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 16:14

They’re used to that kind of weather being so close to the sea. They’re good at controlling the ball in the air and the wind helps.

buffysbuns.wordpress.com
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 19:06

QotS sliding down - like Partick, no wins in last 5 league games, and the two games in hand over some now reduced to one.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: Murchadh  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 21:11

That’s because AJ is a dreadful manager, we should have punted him sooner. Crawford in! Onwards to the promotion bus!
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 21:33

Quote:

Murchadh, Sat 15 Feb 21:11

That’s because AJ is a dreadful manager, we should have punted him sooner. Crawford in! Onwards to the promotion bus!


Ooft! A bit of a sea change for you. Didn't you start a thread about SC, which was almost as long as Liverpool's unbeaten run and kept bumping it up on a regular basis?

As for AJ, that'll be the same "dreadful manager" who won league 1 in a canter with both QOS and the Pars and then established both clubs in the Championship.

Before him, the much vaunted Jim Jeffries had two goes at getting the Pars out of League One and failed miserably.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 22:59

GG, when you talk about how you rate both Johnston and Jefferies, I always think you put too much weight on how well you liked them personally. You obviously liked one and absolutely couldn't stand the other - that's fair enough, but it often seems that it makes you incapable of fairly judging how they did as managers.

To say that Jefferies had two goes and failed miserably is a seriously distorted view of history. In his first season, with a very young side and not allowed to sign anyone over 21 in the summer, we comfortably finished behind the new team from Ibrox. That in its self was pretty good going, certainly the best league position we could possibly achieve, and we played some good football to get there. Yes, the season ended painfully with that play-off game against Cowdenbeath, but it's completely unreasonable to write off that season as a miserable failure on the back of a one-off game that went against us from the first minute, against a side who had two very good forwards that would go on to better things straight after. Despite the play-off loss, it was one of the most enjoyable seasons I've watched.

Sure, the following year wasn't great, but we were far from being out of the promotion battle when he was sacked. John Potter was disastrous as a manger, miles worse than Jefferies, but you would never dream of being so critical of him, presumably because you quite like him as a person. Yes, he seems to have been a good coach but as a manager he was hopeless. He's the only manager I've quite seriously thought I could have done as good as job as.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 23:39

AJ didn't establish QOTS in the Championship-he left before they had played a game.He went to Killie and had a 30% win rate which is pretty much where he's at with QOTS this time.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 00:01

AJ is a decent enough manager, with us his time was up, we were fishing about in the same pool of players and he made a bad call, and we were doomed.

He was great at QOS hence the move to Killie, where he was fine, and certainly I was glad we had him. But he had his time.

Such is the life of a Provincial manager, Houston, Duffy etc. They are all fine, clubs pick the manager we need at the time.

Now we are done with journeymen players after last season's farce, for me we are going with the right idea.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 00:50

AJ was a decent manager for us and I largely enjoyed his spell but his last season with us was brutal. Awful signings and his inability to try and effect a game with subs was his undoing. That Alloa game was a joke and I know Slimer was offended by it but he deserved every last bit of the crowd unrest that day.

Awight Pat!
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 06:50

Quote:

Socks, Sat 15 Feb 22:59

GG, when you talk about how you rate both Johnston and Jefferies, I always think you put too much weight on how well you liked them personally. You obviously liked one and absolutely couldn't stand the other - that's fair enough, but it often seems that it makes you incapable of fairly judging how they did as managers.

To say that Jefferies had two goes and failed miserably is a seriously distorted view of history. In his first season, with a very young side and not allowed to sign anyone over 21 in the summer, we comfortably finished behind the new team from Ibrox. That in its self was pretty good going, certainly the best league position we could possibly achieve, and we played some good football to get there. Yes, the season ended painfully with that play-off game against Cowdenbeath, but it's completely unreasonable to write off that season as a miserable failure on the back of a one-off game that went against us from the first minute, against a side who had two very good forwards that would go on to better things straight after. Despite the play-off loss, it was one of the most enjoyable seasons I've watched.

Sure, the following year wasn't great, but we were far from being out of the promotion battle when he was sacked. John Potter was disastrous as a manger, miles worse than Jefferies, but you would never dream of being so critical of him, presumably because you quite like him as a person. Yes, he seems to have been a good coach but as a manager he was hopeless. He's the only manager I've quite seriously thought I could have done as good as job as.


Try as might, I couldn't find a single word of your post I could take exception to. Looking back at my post, I can see that my use of the word "miserably", which I used for contrast and emphasis, was a mistake. It's also true that I always found AJ and JP to be cordial and helpful, whereas JJ was always a grumpy old git.

I also wrongly believed AJ stayed at QOS, in the season following their promotion. Next time I'll check my facts before posting any imaginary p!sh. 😕

Eta. That painful play off final defeat to Cowdenbeath also served to colour my judgement of JJ. For sure, they had two fine forwards in Stewart and Hemmings, but the team finished 9th in the Championship for a reason. To leave out Callum Morris, our best defender, because he'd signed a pre-contract with Dundee United and play two kids in central defence, was a suicidal decision and for that he should have walked. Potter and McCann may not have fared any better the following season, but at least they would have had the close season to bring in their own players and not inherited a squad who appeared demoralised, short of confidence and going backwards when JJ was eventually sacked. We might still have been in the promotion race mathematically, but we weren't showing any signs that we might actually compete for the title and even a play off place looked beyond us.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Sun 16 Feb 07:47)
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 09:32

Did AJ not have 5 times the budget of the other teams in League 1.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 10:08

On 29th December 2018 we had a superb performance at Falkirk and won 2-4.

Dunfermline were three points behind a Premiership play off spot.

GG Riva has highlighted the extent to which AJ transformed the club while constrained by the budget.

I am unclear why the season was "brutal" sic.

The ghastly scenes which followed the disappointing draw with Alloa Ath( a result which subsequently looked acceptable ) were indefensible and shamed our club.

Perhaps those who look back on that season, and regard it as dreadful, are remembering the 4 points from the last 27 as Stevie Crawford almost took us over the cliff edge.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 10:12

''Did AJ not have 5 times the budget of the other teams in League 1.''

Did you get that from a reliable source, EEAP, or do you just have a fertile imagination?

Remember we were not long out of Administration, we had no credit facilities (and still don't) and we were only keeping our heads above the water thanks to the money coming in from Lifeline.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 11:14

Sliema, how many of those players who played in those last 9 games did Crawford and Shields keep?

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 11:31

GG I have to admit I heard it on Off the ball Radio Scotland. But how many other teams had full time players, a decent sized squad and other luxuries such as a sports scientist.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 12:00

Lots of folk on here are quick to criticise if we can't beat a part-time team but if we do exploit our economic advantage over other clubs somehow it diminishes our success. Someone had to bring everything together to make it work. There are lots of instances in football where clubs with superior resources have not made them count so you can't take success for granted.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 13:08

GG, I'm sure we've been through this before, but while I too would rather have had Callum Morris playing, it wasn't entirely due to him moving on. He'd had a serious loss of form towards the end of the season, and there was one game at Airdrie that stands out. We lost 2-0 and were collectively terrible, but Callum Morris and Lawrence Shankland both had stinkers so bad they had to be seen to be believed. Both were dropped the following week, and Morris was in and out of the team for the rest of the season. In the first leg of the semi final at Stranraer, Jonathon Page was sent off for a second yellow. Obviously he missed the return leg, which complicated things a bit. In the absolutely dire first leg of the final at Central Park, Kerr Young was our best player. Although I think Morris should have played in the last game, there were valid football reasons for him not being in the team.

Cowden might have finished 9th, but they were far from a terrible side that season and had some very good results, most notably winning at Dens Park. Given the strength they had up front and our serious weakness in that position, there probably wasn't much between the two sides in terms of ability. I think too many people just thought we should automatically be a better team than Cowdenbeath without paying any attention to how they'd done that season.

I was rarely that impressed by Alan Johnston. His one real success was the positive start to his first season when a poor start could have made things really difficult after the season before. Many will consider this a ridiculous view, but looking at how both did on the whole and taking into account the circumstances tehy faced, I think Jefferies did a better job, grumpy or not.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 19:52

Quote:

Socks, Sun 16 Feb 13:08

GG, I'm sure we've been through this before, but while I too would rather have had Callum Morris playing, it wasn't entirely due to him moving on. He'd had a serious loss of form towards the end of the season, and there was one game at Airdrie that stands out. We lost 2-0 and were collectively terrible, but Callum Morris and Lawrence Shankland both had stinkers so bad they had to be seen to be believed. Both were dropped the following week, and Morris was in and out of the team for the rest of the season. In the first leg of the semi final at Stranraer, Jonathon Page was sent off for a second yellow. Obviously he missed the return leg, which complicated things a bit. In the absolutely dire first leg of the final at Central Park, Kerr Young was our best player. Although I think Morris should have played in the last game, there were valid football reasons for him not being in the team.

Cowden might have finished 9th, but they were far from a terrible side that season and had some very good results, most notably winning at Dens Park. Given the strength they had up front and our serious weakness in that position, there probably wasn't much between the two sides in terms of ability. I think too many people just thought we should automatically be a better team than Cowdenbeath without paying any attention to how they'd done that season.

I was rarely that impressed by Alan Johnston. His one real success was the positive start to his first season when a poor start could have made things really difficult after the season before. Many will consider this a ridiculous view, but looking at how both did on the whole and taking into account the circumstances tehy faced, I think Jefferies did a better job, grumpy or not.


Aye Socks, I vaguely remember us having this discussion. I'm glad you agree with me that you have to field your best team in important games, even if the form of some players is up and down, as Morris' undoubtedly was. We can perhaps speculate that he was a bit distracted by his impending move to Tannadice. I'd like to think that, had he played v Cowdenbeath at EEP, we wouldn't have conceded such an early goal, when a free kick was allowed to bounce in our box with no Pars player attacking the ball.

Cowden were maybe a better side than their league position indicated, but perhaps we should never have gone down to league 1 in the first place. I remember we blew a 3-1 lead at Firhill in the final minutes and then lost at home to already relegated Airdrie in the final game, when a draw would have kept us out of the relegation play off - all this on JJ's watch.

I respect your opinion 're JJ and AJ but disagree with it and not just because the former had a grumpy personality. I personally heard him haranguing a ref before a game, about a decision that had gone against the Pars in a previous game involving the same official. I really don't know how he thought that was going to help his team in the game in question.

AJ's time at EEP didn't end at all well, but the bare facts are that he took the Pars up a division, whereas JJ left us two leagues below, even though there were plenty of mitigating circumstances.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 22:24

I think AJ did us more good than harm. He took us up afterall and we never went back down. Players moving on may well have been out of his control and down to player preference or money. I don't judge him harshly. Things are rarely the fault of individuals more the systems they have to work within.

Post Edited (Sun 16 Feb 22:25)
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 22:37

To say we blew a 3-1 lead at Firhill does a disservice to how we played in the second half that day. At half-time, a goal down, it looked like league winning Partick Thistle were just a far stronger side than the side we were left with after administration redundancies, to the surprise of nobody. The way we came back after half-time was fantastic, and while of course it was very sore that we let the lead slip late in the game, you surely have to make some allowances for such an inexperienced team tiring late on against the best team in the league. Before the game, a point would have been seen as a great result in that game. Airdrie was very disappointing, but quite how anyone can blame the manager for that one, I really don't know. On top for the first hour with loads of chances, it sadly happened to be a day when Ryan Wallace missed chance after chance.

We were impressive at the start of that season before the full impact of the financial troubles hit. We beat Raith Rovers 3-1 early in the season in a game that still had me buzzing on Monday, and we were top of the league a week into January after winning at Dumbarton. After losing our experienced players, we played 6 games. 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses was the record, which wasn't bad given the circumstances.

I say the bare facts are somewhat meaningless on their own, and that the extreme circumstances have to be given a lot more consideration.

I know we won't agree on this, and that's fine. It's actually quite nice to discuss something and be able to respectfully disagree without antagonism. It's a shame that doesn't happen all that often here.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 23:04

The 3-3 have at Firhill, I think we'd still be playing now if they needed that long to get an equaliser.

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The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 23:56

Jim Jefferies was exactly the type of guy we needed in charge when it all went pear charge. I know we had some poor results while he was in charge but the circumstances were exceptional.

AJ improved us every year but it went stale. The change had to be made.

Both were good for the club in different ways

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: Row_ZZ  
Date:   Mon 17 Feb 00:24

We should have done a lot better in the play-offs 2017-18.

Declan McManus decided to be a greedy wee fud and we didn't burry Dundee United. We should have been about 3 or 4 up at halftime. That wasn’t necessarily AJ’s fault, but bringing on Mvoto up front was embarrassing. If we would have beat Dundee United I think we could have done well as we had Livi’s number that season and Partick were absolutely honking.

Season 18-19 was an absolute disaster. We knew right away with the signings that it was going to be p*sh. Aidan Connolly, Louis Longridge, Mark Durnan etc all absolutely honking at this level and no surprise to see them playing in League 1 now. AJ should never have got a deal after 17/18.

My left leg could have won League 1 with out budget. He should be thanked for bringing some entertainment that season, but really he was a pretty guff Pars manager.

I Know There's Gonna Be (Good Times)
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: BlackLight  
Date:   Mon 17 Feb 01:48


Previously I was unhappy about how the support turned on AJ. I didn't think he was as bad as people made out.

The recent interview with Joe Cardle changed my mind though. His treatment of some players seems like it was pretty unprofessional. I know it's only one side of the story, but Joe came across as honest and open and not particularly trying to stick the knife in.

One other dose of reality for me was being on P&B when we last played QOS. Their fans are now saying all the same things that our fans used to say about AJ.

I wasn't happy about the way he was treated, but in retrospect I'm glad he's gone.
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 Re: Championship today
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 17 Feb 06:51

Topic Originator: Socks like | nolike
Date: Sun 16 Feb 22:37

''To say we blew a 3-1 lead at Firhill does a disservice to how we played in the second half that day. At half-time, a goal down, it looked like league winning Partick Thistle were just a far stronger side than the side we were left with after administration redundancies, to the surprise of nobody. The way we came back after half-time was fantastic, and while of course it was very sore that we let the lead slip late in the game, you surely have to make some allowances for such an inexperienced team tiring late on against the best team in the league. Before the game, a point would have been seen as a great result in that game. Airdrie was very disappointing, but quite how anyone can blame the manager for that one, I really don't know. On top for the first hour with loads of chances, it sadly happened to be a day when Ryan Wallace missed chance after chance.''

Again, poor choice of phrase on my part - perhaps coloured by the pain of subsequent relegation. We did play well in that 2nd half at Firhill, but ultimately we didn't manage the game well near the end - maybe not surprising, given the youthful team JJ was obliged to put out. As for the Airdrie game, I remember remarking at half time that I'd have fancied myself to have bagged a hat trick if I'd had the chances Ryan Wallace had missed and I'm no footballer by any stretch.....

''I say the bare facts are somewhat meaningless on their own, and that the extreme circumstances have to be given a lot more consideration.''

That's true, but sometimes folk use them like stats, to try and make a point.

''I know we won't agree on this, and that's fine. It's actually quite nice to discuss something and be able to respectfully disagree without antagonism. It's a shame that doesn't happen all that often here.''

My sentiments exactly, Socks, cheers. It's what intelligent adults do... ;-)

''Previously I was unhappy about how the support turned on AJ. I didn't think he was as bad as people made out.

The recent interview with Joe Cardle changed my mind though. His treatment of some players seems like it was pretty unprofessional. I know it's only one side of the story, but Joe came across as honest and open and not particularly trying to stick the knife in.

One other dose of reality for me was being on P&B when we last played QOS. Their fans are now saying all the same things that our fans used to say about AJ.

I wasn't happy about the way he was treated, but in retrospect I'm glad he's gone.''

There's no doubt AJ had to go. For a manager who was so meticulous in signing players, he brought in a good number who were either not good enough, had a poor attitude, or both. At the same time, he lost some of the best players in his team to clubs who could pay more than we could afford. Ultimately, that's what cost him his job. The BoD had hoped he would have been able to oversee a gradual rebuild of our club, culminating in it establishing itself in the top flight, but it wasn't to be.

Joe Cardle was one of my favourite Pars players during his time at EEP. I can understand his anger and frustration at how his time here ended. AJ should have told him straight away that he wasn't in his future plans, but he didn't because he was trying to bring in better players (in his opinion.) Had these new signings not materialised, then Joe and others may have been offered a contract after all.

That's not good management, whichever way you slice it. It's often said that players and their agents hold all the aces nowadays, but they do need to know in good time if they're surplus to requirements so they can find another club and provide for their families.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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