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 Only 8000
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 15:01

On Wednesday 14th April 1965 Dunfermline inflicted a 3-1 defeat on a Rangers side that included the likes of legends John Greig, Jim Baxter, Willie Henderson and Davie Wilson. In doing so they took a step nearer what could be a remarkable league and cup double.

Having already secured a place in the final of the Scottish Cup where Willie Cunningham’s team would face Celtic, the win over fifth placed Rangers left the Pars second top, two points behind Hearts each with two matches to play and level on points but with a superior goal average to Kilmarnock.

The Fifers last two matches where both at home against St Johnstone and a mid table Celtic. Hearts would play Killie on the final day.

At home to St Johnstone ,going for the league and there was only 8000 of a crowd,pretty poor and shows even at the height of our successful period we could not get particularly great crowds.
Im pretty sure we got a really good crowd in 2002 when we qualified for the top 6 for the first time ,over 7000

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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 16:16

My first game was in 1968 V Morton. We won 4-0 with Bert Paton scoring a hat trick. The crowd that day was reported to be 6000. That season we won the cup and finished 4th in the league. We have never had a massive crowd, however Dunfermline is not the size of Aberdeen, or even Dundee.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: vasco  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 16:19

Best crowds ever were before Leishman and the Pars parted. Never came close to recovery in the years since.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: ianbd6  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 16:27

I would have thought the population of Dunfermline in the 60s would have been about 40 thousand so even if there was 3thousand away fans still a good %of population.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 17:15

During the 60's our average was 7 - 8 thousand, despite our relative success. The 89 - 90 season it was 10989, where did it all go wrong, as said in a previous post we never recovered support wise from the crazy decision to replace Jim Leishman as manager.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: goldensixties  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 17:48

Black and White Magic published in 1984 lists interesting attendance figures. During season 1961/62 the lowest home league attendance was 5,153 against St Mirren and the highest was 17,163 against Rangers. This was our first season in European competition and we attracted crowds of 10,890 against St Patricks Athletic, 11,958 against FC Vardar and 24,049 against Ujpesti Dozsa.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 17:51

It was a catastrophic decision to move Leish aside in 1990. I truly, hand on heart believe we were on the verge of greatness having signed several decent players. =
The BOD never forgave Jim for telling them where to go and sadly many thousands of fans never forgave the board.

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 19:19

I was nowhere near as regular an attendee after that.

I lost a wee bit of my passion, which took five or six years to get back but by then I had other interests on a Saturday.

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel the warmth.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 20:44

If the events of the summer of 1990 hadn't happened, where do folk think we'd have been by the end of the 90s? I suspect it wouldn't be all that far from where we actually were, both in terms of league position and attendances. He wouldn't have wanted it to end as it did, but his leaving in that manner after the most successful season in 20 years cemented his reputation in Dunfermline.

It seems unlikely to me that such an incredibly successful period would have been sustained for much longer, and a good number would have drifted away anyway, particularly those in their late teens at the time. It was obviously harmful, particularly as the next two managers struggled for any success at all, but I do feel the long term effects of it are over-stated.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 22:17

"During the 60's our average was 7 - 8 thousand,"

Maybe a bit on the high side - 5000 to 6000 was more accurate except for visits of clubs with large travelling support.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 22:25

It's probably not fair to compare decades on as, as was said, the population of Dunfermline in the 60"s was around 35-40000 so we did average very well back then per head of population.
Add on transport was not nearly as accessible for fans outwith the town especially away fans coming to visit. I

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: KirklistonPar  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 22:41

Will the coronavirus give an appreciation of what is on the door step to many football fans who might currently not attend games. It’s a great day out & the more you put in, the more you get back. It would be great if this drastic situation could be what helps Scottish football instead of destroying it. Everyone in Scotland has a team playing in the city, town or village where they live get out & give them your support im old enough to remember Eep being full & covering my ears as a kid because the noise was so loud.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 22:51

"Add on transport was not nearly as accessible for fans outwith the town especially away fans coming to visit."

Many supporters buses brought away fans, and special trains as well at times.

The latter were regular for the short trip across from Edinburgh.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 23:03

Yes, I think when this calms down, people will be desperate to get out, celebrate what we have, restaurants etc. I'm sure will be heaving.

You can't beat a live game, the weather will be better- regardless of the month, we should pack the games in and finish the season, quick preseason' (2 weeks?) while the players are match fit, then a shorter next season with temporary contract extensions/ transfer window half way through?

Money will be super tight for most ( though not all, we have a substantial public sector population in W. Fife, the front line ones will be bone tired and mentally wiped out) and impossible for many, economy will not be pretty to look at, but it's human instinct to get together.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Tue 24 Mar 23:32

I've heard it mentioned that we struggled a bit financially in the 70s, we're we overspending in the 60s to a large degree? How did our attendances compare with others in the league?
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: wjmcm  
Date:   Wed 25 Mar 01:59

Went to my first game with my Dad and sat in the wee stand near the end of the war. Crowds seemed massive to me but were probably 5 or 6 thousand. There was always a good crowd for the 5 a side tournament in the summer and I recall Celtic winning it with Bobby Collins in the side. Rosyth Recs could pull 4 figure crowds and the gate against Irvine Meadow was thought to be more than 6000. Folk went out more for their entertainment then and with 4 cinemas, 3 dog tracks and 2 dancehalls there was always something on. The late 50's into the 60's and 70's television and the motor car changed people's habits. With mobile phones and ipads changing recreational interest we are probably getting as good crowds as we can expect.
Football wasn't always the main interest in the town. Back then Tuck and Tiny Syme were our favourite sportsmen. Up the Vikings.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Wed 25 Mar 09:54

I started going when we were going from full time to part time (1974?) Some good teams, but I'm guessing the crowds were around 2000, they then dipped for years until the leishman years.

Even then, those crowds wouldn't sustain regardless, people naturally drop off, one mediocre season.

It's not easy following a team for years, the lustre wears off, I've read guys on here 'im not going till AJ is out' ' then 'I'm not going till SC out' these are the guys who would/should stop going.

Our natural hardcore support is good, but in common with similar clubs in similar towns is around 2000-maybe 2500, if we are doing well gets closer to 4000.

Our boost in the last few years is the joy of saving our club, that is not sustainable, we go towards our natural crowd.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 25 Mar 10:37

"I've heard it mentioned that we struggled a bit financially in the 70s, we're we overspending in the 60s to a large degree? How did our attendances compare with others in the league?"

The club got into a finacial mess very late '60s going into early '70s and there were "interested parties" looking to get involved - one was a scrap merchant from Edinburgh if memory serves, which didn't transpire.

The eventual outcome was relegation and part time football and the slow decline until Leishman came along and resurrected the club.

I was one of the die hards for his first home league game v Stenhousemuir (?) in front of 700 odd fans.

Other attendances in the league in the 60s were pretty much like ours except for the big two in each of Glasgow and Edinburgh respectively, with odd exceptions.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Wed 25 Mar 11:17

<<"I've heard it mentioned that we struggled a bit financially in the 70s, we're we overspending in the 60s to a large degree?">>


Certainly, by the turn of the decade, there were signs that perhaps the Pars were overspending to a fairly significant degree.

The big transfer money we had got for the likes of Alex Smith and Alex Ferguson in the mid-'60s was long gone by then and stars like Tommy Callaghan and Alex Edwards were sold off for a fraction of their true value.

In exchange, we were bringing in ex-Old Firm stalwarts like George McLean, Joe McBride and John Cushley who clearly were on the downward slope career-wise. Yet still, it was reported that we forked out 20k+ for "Dandy".

Around that time, I vividly recall a near full-page feature on George Farm in the Daily Record. At its centre was a picture of our manager standing proudly next to his new car, an expensive Rover 2000, with the main stand at EEP in the background. Presumably, the club had funded the car. The article mentioned that Farm was earning 3k a year, a wage unimaginable then to the ordinary punter in Scotland. Only the managers of Rangers and Celtic earned more, it said.

As our performances on the pitch declined - emphasised devastatingly one evening midweek in an embarrassing Texaco Cup match against Spurs - it became obvious to us all that the party was over and something was bound to give. And it did.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 25 Mar 14:31

Even when things were going well in the 1960s The Pars still had to sell a player every year to balance the books.

1964 George Miller £25,000
1965 Jackie Sinclair £30,000
1966 Alex Smith £45,000
1967 Alex Ferguson £55,000
1968 Tommy Callaghan £35,000

These figures are only estimates of course. I assume some of that money went on replacements (e.g. Hughie Robertson replaced Sinclair at £10,000) and the rest helped to pay wages high enough to maintain a strong squad. There have been hints by one former player that a director of that era was making ex gratia payments from his own pocket or company.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: Ronaldo  
Date:   Wed 25 Mar 14:55


"if we are doing well gets closer to 4000"

I went to my first game in October 1972 v Brechin City (8-0: a great start)

Because the team was going well at the time and really exciting to watch, the crowd that day was ... surprise, surprise (officially) 4000.

I suppose the difference with a similar-sized crowd today is that 4000 back then wouldn't have included the many younger ones who were lifted over the turnstiles for free.

I was 11 years old and 'll never forget that day. I'd waited a long time to see the Pars, having followed them 'remotely' for years.

Even though it was the old second division, and there was a feeling that - compared with the glory days - the train had left the station. I was blown away by the whole experience ...

.. goals galore, classic Pars strip, noisy crowd, brilliant sunshine, the old East End Park, smoke rising from the terracing, half-time scoreboards, invalid cars behind the goals, Ken Mackie's frizzy perm etc, etc...
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Wed 25 Mar 15:01

Yes, also I really miss the terracing.

I'm sure it's a rose tinted hearing aid, but there always seemed to be a cracking atmosphere with our wrap around terracing.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: Ronaldo  
Date:   Wed 25 Mar 15:13


I think you're right neils. A roof always helped to create a good atmosphere ... and we have roof to spare back then.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 25 Mar 17:01

Even when things were going well in the 1960s The Pars still had to sell a player every year to balance the books.

1964 George Miller £25,000
1965 Jackie Sinclair £30,000
1966 Alex Smith £45,000
1967 Alex Ferguson £55,000
1968 Tommy Callaghan £35,000

Alex Smith was reported as £51,000, Sammer, a record between two Scottish clubs, broken by the following year, £60,000 when Fergie followed Smith to Ibrox.

The reason they had to sell to balance the books was two fold; generally poor crowds when playing smaller, unfashionable teams (First Division comprised 18 teams playing only home and away once) and the top wages they paid.*

*According to Hugh Taylor in the Scottish Football Annual 1968, only Celtic and Rangers paid their players higher salaries.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Wed 25 Mar 21:12

Still think the salaries were above average salaries- big bonuses too?

Admission was dirt cheap, equivalent about £3 today? it was only when the influx of foreign players and also clubs outbidding each other for salaries that admission prices started to rocket.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 25 Mar 21:19

5 shillings for an adult and 2 shillings and 6 pence for a child. I cannot remember how much an OAP would have been.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 25 Mar 22:27

Concessions were same as child price - also included HM Forces in uniform.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: bigdonnie  
Date:   Wed 25 Mar 22:30

dunfermline v meadowbank 1989 to win division 1 over 11,000 to see pars draw 1-1 to win the league pars also had over 1000 travelling support happy days

donald mcneil
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Thu 26 Mar 08:21

Well I still think we would get 10000 + for one offs like the meadowbank game no problems. Wasn't that long ago when we beat the rovers to go up, that was a sell out.

Trouble is, when we got promoted, we went bellow 4000 average.
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 Re: Only 8000
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 26 Mar 09:30

Exceptional circumstances produce a sell out - like that promotion decider v Rovers as mentioned, or the 1968 Cup winners v League champions end of season encounter.

Otherwise its the usual suspects like us who turn out for routine games.
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