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 Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 13:20

https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-clubs-to-vote-on-curtailment-of-ladbrokes-s
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 13:27

Quote:

Grant, Wed 8 Apr 13:20

https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-clubs-to-vote-on-curtailment-of-ladbrokes-s
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 13:31

Utterly shambolic the Premier League gets a separate disconsation.
Must be one rule for all.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 13:36

Cannot see the playoff teams being happy with that decision
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 13:36

Thanks Grant that's an interesting read and I'd have missed it.

Partick will be fighting that tooth and nail I'd imagine with the amount of money they've thrown at things.

Cant imagine Falkirk being overly pleased either.

Hard to argue against United going up as they were well clear.

The whole point of the SP was to allow the top flight clubs to do what they want so no surprise they have an option to do their own thing.

Post Edited (Wed 08 Apr 13:36)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 13:37

seems odd to apply one rule for Premier and another for the rest. In this basis we would finish 6th with Thistle being relegated, Dundee Utd promoted and no play offs.
It strikes me as a pragmatic solution.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 13:39

Did you expect anything else. It has to be different for the gruesome twosome. All rules must have exceptions for them.

It's nothing to do with the other ten clubs in that league.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 13:53

Why cannot ICT have a crack at the playoffs. Stinks to high heaven.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 13:55

What happens at bottom of league 2? Then Brora and Kelty/Bonnyrigg in lower leagues, they need to have chance to come up.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 14:06

I cannot see the SPFL clubs agreeing it.

It stinks to high heaven.

Falkirk,Edinburgh City,Inverness,Partick Th etc would be apoplectic and deservedly so.

League Reconstruction ie divisions of 14-14-14 should be voted on first.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 14:14

I would think that the leagues will be expanded to 12 next year so no relegation and 2 teams going up

"If the resolution is approved, the SPFL has also committed to consulting with Clubs over the possibility of League restructuring ahead of Season 2020/21."

This will also give teams more home games so a much need increase in income



Post Edited (Wed 08 Apr 14:17)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 14:14

Sky Sports added this to their report:
“They (SPFL) also propose continuing postponement of Premiership games “to give the best possible opportunity for fixtures to be played” - if board determine games cannot be played, Premiership will be terminated with final positions determined on the same basis.”

buffysbuns.wordpress.com
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 14:15

I honestly cannot see a fairer way of shutting this season down.

I do think they should consider the same points per game calculation when assessing the Highland and Lowland League v bottom of Div.2.. to see whom tops the points to determine who is promoted or demoted.

It really sucks but what other alternatives are there in such a short period of time?

DunfyDave
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: doctordandruff  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 14:20

Think the premiership is separate as it finishes later, and UEFA have said any cancellation means your teams.dont qualify for Europe.

I assume our improved coefficient still stands as it's done on a round by round basis
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 14:20

The SPL are taking cognisance of UEFA's stance of eligibility for European competitions, that's why they are having a separate vote.

Of course if there is a determination for lesgue reconstruction then clubs like Falkirk and Partick Thistle etc. will be OK, as they will be promoted or exempt relegation in practice.



Post Edited (Wed 08 Apr 14:21)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 14:21

The premiership wish to maintain the status quo and discussion on league reconstruction is a discussion only. They hold the voting rights.
Why not conversely argue that the second bottom club be relegated automatically in that discussion. Is that fairer?
Maybe I just don’t trust Doncaster and his motives.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 14:31

The Board offering to consult clubs with a view to Reconstruction in 2020/21 is not worth the paper it is written on given the usual suspects will block it.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 14:48

If it save Hearts from dropping down then it's a serious runner.

They don't want to lose the club with third best attendances.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 15:20

75% in each Division would have to vote for it.

There is not a chance.

PS Are we not fifth in the Championship?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 15:25

More interested in the Premier League decision. Hearts coming down?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 15:39

not overly happy at being the only club in the bottom 3 divisions (I think) that would drop a position because of the PPG but that's what is on the table.

as for the vote itself whether a club has a chance at a title, playoff, staying up etc, this is a vote to stay in business or not, that's the reality and has a greater chance of being voted through than some think.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 15:45

Based on this proposal, Partick Thistle will be relegated, despite being just 2 points behind Queens, having played a game less. In terms of form over the last 10 games, Queens have only picked up 3 points and Partick have picked up 8. I think it’s highly unlikely that Partick wouldn’t have caught Queens.

Calling a season’s prize money, promotion and relegation after 75% of games being played is not a ‘fair’ solution. Clubs will have invested in January to improve their squad. Clubs will have brought in new managers/back room staff to try and improve things, based on the fact that the season lasts 36 games. I don’t understand the argument that this is fair. I can’t actually recall a season - particularly in this league, where things have finished as they were after 27/28 games.

There will be issues with every possible solution. I accept that. But I’d imagine they’ll have legal fights on their hands from Partick and Falkirk, perhaps even others. However, I do think reconstruction is likely - 16 team top flight with the existing top 4 in championship going into that would add Ayrshire derbies, Dundee derbies and highland derbies to the top flight, for their new TV deal! I’d be happy with that too, with Raith and Falkirk joining us. Again, not everyone will be happy, but it avoids the controversy of relegations/teams challenging at top not getting promoted.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 15:50

League Reconstruction and especially 14-14-14 has good arguments.

However,you are asking the smaller Premiership clubs to act as Turkeys voting for Christmas.

Unless the SPFL are to offer a financial compensation package.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 15:53

The TV companies won't be happy with only two OF derbies instead of four.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Roger Daltrey  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 15:59

Quote:

Sliema Par, Wed 8 Apr 15:20

75% in each Division would have to vote for it.

There is not a chance.

PS Are we not fifth in the Championship?


No, we fall to 6th on the basis Arbroath have more points per game, having played 2 less than us.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 16:02

TV firms wouldn't be too fussed, contract broken so no TV payout. Admin on its way for a few top clubs possibly.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 16:05

SKY and BT Sport paid all their remaining financial commitments a few weeks back,to their credit.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 16:16

I don't understand why we can't just complete the 2019/20 season after the lockdown (assuming that it is in September at the latest) then have a half-season for 2020/21.

It's all about fairness. Clubs signed up to full seasons in August and that is what they should get. Next season can be much shorter and clubs will know in advance what they need to do and can plan accordingly.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Bigbeefcake  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 16:26

14 team top flight wouldn't have only two OF games. It would have 4 as the idea im sure is to continue with the split after 26 games and play each other twice after.

I do not see how this season can't be concluded in a 4 week period when things return to normal though.

It's another big beefy bonanza at the beefcake boulevard!!
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 16:47

As I said about the Black Death(1347-1351) this will eventually end and I was proved right.

Then we should have televised closed doors matches whenever that day dawns.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 16:48

Quote:

Bigbeefcake, Wed 8 Apr 16:26

14 team top flight wouldn't have only two OF games. It would have 4 as the idea im sure is to continue with the split after 26 games and play each other twice after.

Yes, we'll have a 14 team top league for a season at least. The only proposal that enough clubs will vote for is to have 2 clubs promoted from every league with no relegation. If Bigbeef's idea works well, they might even stick with it, otherwise a series of extra relegations can be put in place to revert to the current set up for 21/22.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 16:49

I'm may be wrong but I don't think the lowland and highland leagues are members of the spfl, therefore they are not in the statement.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 16:55

I agree with aaarrg, lots of caveats of course, but what is the rush.

Quick period to get players more ready, finish the season quickly, brief period to get contracts finished/ re-sign and a reduced 2020/21.

Screw the Euros, or at least our remaining qualifiers, that has to fit in wherever. It's harder not to qualify than qualify, so f"** them. Anyway, we won't be flying several hundred thousands of fans next summer constantly.

I don't get the rush to declare this season done, way too many clubs will be aggrieved, Raith, Falkirk, Airdrie, kelty, partick, too many to be fair. Even us.

Who knows, but I think next season is a disaster financially anyway.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 17:06

How can you have a Half season in 20/21 without broadcasters cutting what they pay in half - disastrous financially for Scottish clubs!
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 17:07

Why would Raith be aggrieved?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 17:14

complete the season, however long it takes has to be the only and correct decision, then agree on a format for the following season, at that time.




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 17:33

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Wed 8 Apr 17:14

complete the season, however long it takes has to be the only and correct decision, then agree on a format for the following season, at that time.


Agreed, Raymie. Just unpause the season when we can, pack in the games, bin the mickey mouse cups for a couple of seasons, shorten the summer break. We'll be back to an August start in a couple of years. Contract negotiations just have to the place during the season, no biggie unless I'm missing something?

This is my signature
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 17:33

If the season goes on into September that has a hughly negative effect on the start of European club competitions.

That will not work for SPL.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 17:38

but fine for SFL




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 17:40

Bin the Mickey Mouse cups of which the Betfred provides significant income for lower league clubs plus you also give 2 fingers to a sponsor. Folks who think there will be scope to play all these games are like the folks who think Coronavirus is just a lot of hype
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 17:41

no such thing as the SPL or SFL.

how many clubs will go bust before July/August/September without the final league placing payout now?

vote is by Friday evening so not long to find out.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: storminNorman  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 17:45

cant really see any other way out of this situation but the one on the table,if your promoted or relegated but still at least have a living club is that not a massive bonus in these totally uncertain times?
i agree it's not an ideal way forward by any means but financially it might be the only way out for some clubs our own included ok wages can be paid up to 80% by the government but clubs have other overheads the stadium overheads for one.
they have to be maintained and kept to a certain standard all clubs need a safety certificate to even play in the stadium and ours is no different.
the Rover up Hearts down its a win win situation for the Pars,ok it sounds like i'am being a bit self preservative and only really looking out for the Pars and if i'am honest i probably am but can any of us say truth on heart they don't feel the same?
as for Partick,Falkirk and Rangers taking legal action they will be wasting more money all people will remember when this is over (soon hopefully) is the cost in human life and how we rebuild the economy football clubs taking legal action because they are upset over not being promoted or being relegated or there biggest rivals get another title wont go down well in the bigger picture of things.
i can see both sides but the SPFL are in a no win situation one that they cant really win and cant really loose as next season when it starts most teams will just get on with the football only one club will forever not let this go and we all could name them.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: squish  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 18:20

Wonder if DAFC will tell us what their stance is on this?


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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 18:21

We need a club statement 😉
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Hay Fever  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 18:59

Kelty will feel aggrieved as no Promotion from the Lowland /Highland league
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 19:20

This proposal will get voted through as clubs will need the payouts and although it isn't perfect it is a satisfactory solution and teams like Partick and Stranraer will just have to accept it

Post Edited (Wed 08 Apr 19:21)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 19:32

What are the realistic alternatives ?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 19:33

Quote:

jake89, Wed 8 Apr 18:21

We need a club statement 😉


But which statement will come first?
I feel we need a statement on the different statements 🤣


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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 19:34

1) Finish the season with televised closed doors matches or

2) Three Divisions of 14.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: RhinoPars  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 19:44

As others have noted payments may assist clubs with all important cash flow at this difficult time. There is a precedent for deciding on winners based on play to date in more than one sport. In cricket rain can interrupt matches and Duckworth-Lewis then comes into play to decide the winner provided enough overs have been bowled. In golf, if for some reason they can't play on the last day of a tournament then they can go with whoever is in the lead after 54 holes (3 rounds) instead of 72 (assuming no potential for an extra days play).

Personally I hope they use the opportunity to really reorganise the leagues and go for a 16 team top division with a top 8 early season cup competition to provide bigger clubs with some more lucrative strength v strength games and a trophy early in the season - whilst providing most teams with something to play for right till the end of the season (as is the case here in SA with teams striving to either get into the top 8 competition at start of next season or avoid getting into last 2 positions- relegation and relegation play off spots). The result in most seasons is you get almost every team having something to play for till the end of the season. You could have a top league of 16 and two other leagues of 14 which (or 16,16,12) which would allow you to promote the winner of both Lowland and Highland leagues.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 19:53

The seeming link between acceptance of this proposal and the release of much needed funds is bordering on the immoral.

Many fans are arguing for League Reconstruction.

Probably most Supporters in Scotland would.

However, the vested interests in Scotland will block it.


Finally do not underestimate any Legal action by Hearts,Rangers,Falkirk and Partick Thistle because they are not bluffing.

From a selfish point of view, we could end up with crowd pullers like Hearts,Raith Rovers and Dundee next season and that begs a question.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Perkins  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 20:06

How would a 14 team league work in terms of the number of league games?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 20:12

Read the article on DAFC.net.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 20:15

I've said this before, no relegation from any league, but top 2 teams from each league gets promoted with top of Highland and Lowland leagues getting promoted to League 2.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Bucuresti Par  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 20:16

We have a 14 team top league here in Romania, each team plays each other twice, then after 26 games the league splits 6/8. The top six play for the title, European spots. The bottom 2 in the bottom 8 are relegated, 3rd bottom has a 2 legged playoff with 3rd top from the second division.

It is not great but not terrible, but what is ludicrous is that all the teams points are halved after the split, which obviously makes it much tighter but is really unfair!

Ideally I'd like 16/16/16, no splits, play everyone twice. But I don't have a good answer for how you make up for the loss of 6 league games, probably it is unfeasible. The issue of 2 less Old Firm games shouldn't be an issue, let them play each other in China or America or wherever they like 2 extra times a season.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 20:27

Finish season and revamp next season. It will be same for all euro leagues. Champion and europa league straight knock out for all ties.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: ft media  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 20:28

we need reconstruction. there are too many teams putting money in to try and win promotion or stave off relegation for it to just come to a halt and that be it..
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 20:43

Two leagues of 21... 4 up 4 down no stupid split or playoffs... 40 games
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 21:00

Thank fork we've got The Rangers to stand up for all us diddy clubs and reject this "abhorrent" decision.

Apparently.....

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: M-PAR  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 21:19

Would like to see 18-12-12 but I doubt the old firm would agree to it.

COYP!
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 21:23

Why would any clubs in SPFL2 vote for a 14 team League nor is it attractive to the lower clubs in L1?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 23:22

Rangers calling for prize money to be given out now and then play season to a finish. Why would any club not vote for that.
Our club should be stating what they are voting for and why.
I would like to think we have integrity and go for the rangers option. We could be In Partick position, who wants a team relegated like this. Football should be decided on the pitch.
Play season when safe.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 8 Apr 23:34

"Would like to see 18-12-12 but I doubt the old firm would agree to it."

An 18 team top tier would just be a reversion to what triggered league reconstruction in the mid 1970s - too many average sides hiding in the lower half of the table just ensuring they had enough points to avoid relegation.

With several weeks of generally meaningless games toward the end of season.

That's not going to attract punters at £20+
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: nick_dafc1  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 01:18

The TV companies won’t accept anything other than at least 4 old firm league games per season so any reconstruction will be based around that. It’s not just the old firm but the rest of the spl clubs will support this for the money it brings in.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 05:35

Life’s not fair, everybody can’t win! Football has to accept this, stop now accepting current places (average points). Then we can move on.

As kids don’t know how many games were stopped with next goal is the winner, or just xxxx dad says we need to stop.

2020 is a right off for all sport. Sadly I predicted it in February
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 06:14

For the Football Authorities to be effectively withholding funds and dangling them as a carrot,is immoral.

I never thought I would ever agree with Rangers but,if they are demanding payment now,they are spot on.

How would we feel were we in the same position as Partick Th or Falkirk?

We need to act with integrity.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 06:17

Self interest comes to the fore again!

Of course hearts think its terrible because they've been rank all season, sit bottom of the league and won't accept the fact that league tables don't lie. Rangers don't want to risk celtic doing 10 in a row even though they've been bollox since Christmas and have zero hope of catching them. Could argue its tough for playoff spots but it's generally not two up two down each year so move along please.
Bigger things to worry about so let's do it, put all the confusion to bed and hopefully we'll have a season to look forward to next year

I'd vote for the early call. Give spl to celtic who deserve it, Get Dundee Utd up who deserve it, get hearts down who deserve it, etc.

Post Edited (Thu 09 Apr 06:18)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 06:59

''Of course hearts think its terrible because they've been rank all season, sit bottom of the league and won't accept the fact that league tables don't lie. Rangers don't want to risk celtic doing 10 in a row even though they've been bollox since Christmas and have zero hope of catching them.''

I'm not sticking up for either Hearts or Therangers, but it's not the FINAL table, so they have every justification in complaining that it's unfair and unsporting, no matter how likely or unlikely it is that they could overtake the clubs above them.

Btw, Therangers chairman is quoted as saying that if Celtic are awarded the title, it will be forever marked with an asterisk *

The other point I'd like to make is that all 42 clubs are being asked to vote on whether the season should be declared over for the Championship, League 1 and League 2? Why?

Are all 42 clubs also going to vote on the proposal for the Premiership?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 07:06

Within days of the result on Friday,newspapers will publish how each club voted.

Just saying.......
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 07:38

I have a question: if the SPFL takes the vote and there is legal action then I believe this is allowed within the articles of association, but is there any possibility if UEFA makes the decision that there is no possibility of legal action against the governing body? I know there is prior precedence of a club taking UEFA to court but don’t think it ended so well for them.
I do expect that some clubs will force legal action- if they can afford the costs of losing the case.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 08:18

Can the Scottish Football Authorities afford to lose the case?

I would infer Hearts have taken Legal Counsel, given the confident remarks attributed to Anne Budge.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 08:45

It might be the FINAL table though (not sure why we needed the caps lock but anyway)

We're more than far enough of the way through the season to call it and sporting events are subject to early finishes all the time due to unforeseen circumstances.

make it as fair as possible to balance games played, call it, deal with it and move on.

Post Edited (Thu 09 Apr 08:46)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 08:50

I'm torn here. I think they should finish the current season but Sliema Par vociferously agrees, which makes me think I must have it wrong - very wrong.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 08:51

Will we still have 42 clubs at the end of all this ?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 09:12

There is no sporting integrity in finishing the games in August/September at all - that is just fantasy - 5 or 6 months after a ball was last kicked in that season. So many key variables will have changed in the intervening period - injured players recovered, players have moved clubs or even retired, some clubs will have been on furlough some not, pitch conditions will be completely different, etc
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 09:16

"I'd vote for the early call. Give spl to celtic who deserve it, Get Dundee Utd up who deserve it, get hearts down who deserve it, etc."

But, do Raith deserve to go up when they're only a point ahead of Falkirk and have still to go to Falkirk? Or do Partick deserve to go down when they're 2 points behind Queen's with a game in hand?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: king lad  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 09:36

Impossible situation but cant see any way to actually finish this current season? Contracts run out at the end of May, some players will have signed PCAs with other clubs. Somebody is going to be unhappy no matter what you do. As others have brought up is it fair to relegate/promote teams given there is still several games left in the season? Falkirk would lose out on promotion by 0.04 of a point to Raith, however I think it is a great chance for reconstruction of the leagues, certainly don't enjoy playing the same team 4 times in the same season excluding cup competitions.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 09:42

In my eyes Scottish football lost any sense of fairness and integrity when they voted for the split in the Premiership which meant teams didn't play each other the same number of times home and away, so I don't think deciding places on the basis of average points per game is such a travesty as some think.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: storminNorman  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 09:52

cant see reconstruction for a start Celtic,Rangers and Aberdeen will vote against and more importantly TV company's wont allow the loss of 4 old firm games as the largest viewing figures in the Scottish game are the old firm games they also attract very large viewing figures throughout the sky distributors.
so with the loss of the next most watched fixture the Edinburgh derby its a complete no/no.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 10:08

if there is any reconstruction it will still include 4 games against each other in some way and the idea it should happen for 1 season just to solve this problem is ridiculous, even beyond 1 season the current setup while it has it flaws is far more acceptable than any idea of a 14 team league or leagues.
there were rumours last summer the Championship clubs were looking at trying to make it a 12 team league, I can see that coming up again.

"Self interest comes to the fore again!"

so far Rangers, Hearts, Partick, Falkirk, Stranraer against...really? never...there is a competition for the worst statement between those too...
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 12:30

The suggestion that this is the only way clubs can be given even a % of their prize money just now is just bullying tactics from the SPFL. There would be nothing at all wrong with giving out interim prize money based on the amount teams would get paid for their lowest possible finishing position - or giving out the amount that the bottom club would get in each league.

I really don’t think it’s fair that every team has prepared for a 36 game season and they could be relegated based on how things stand after 27/28 games. Anyone who has followed football at all will know that is not how things would have finished. For clubs like ourselves, based on 2018/19 figures, we would get £225k for finishing 6th (despite currently being 5th). 5th Place would have been £250k and 4th £325k. I’m not saying we would have finished 4th or 5th. We may even finish below 6th if we finish the season. However, we could miss out on the chance to compete for that extra £100k of prize money, which is certainly significant for a club like us. For that reason, I’d be surprised if our board were happy with that, particularly given last season’s financial performance as well.

Admittedly, there are issues with every possible solution. However, this suggestion of nobody getting any financial support without agreeing to this is genuinely terrible behaviour from the authorities. We have a governing body that covers all 4 professional leagues. If they plan to finish 1 league, all leagues should be finished in the same timescale. Right now, they’re just showing that they don’t care about 30 of the 42 clubs (or the Highland/Lowland clubs hoping to join the SPFL).
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 15:11

Quote:

DBP, Thu 9 Apr 08:45

It might be the FINAL table though (not sure why we needed the caps lock but anyway)


Quite simple, DPB. I wanted to stress the word but don't know how to put it in bold using my tablet.....☹

Of course, I meant it will not contain a full season's fixtures but you knew that. 🙂

Eta. The EFL has said it can complete the remaining fixtures in 56 days (behind closed doors) and delay the start of next season if necessary.

Could a similar arrangement not be applied in Scotland?



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Thu 09 Apr 15:18)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 16:05

Maybe now the football authorities here will realise that the recently introduced peripheral competitions have had an "unhelpful" impact on league fixtures ?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 16:07

Just arrange penalty shoot outs to finish the season and be done with it. 3 pts if you win pen shoot out ,0 if you lose. 5 kicks as per normal 1 point if tied after 5 kicks. Only 6/7 players from each club need to travel , can keep 2m rule which would be impossible with the suggestion of playing closed door games.

It won’t help the clubs financially but it will bring the season to a conclusion. Better than cancelling what’s left.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: evo!  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 17:36

desparado wrote:

> Just arrange penalty shoot outs to finish the season and be
> done with it. 3 pts if you win pen shoot out ,0 if you lose. 5
> kicks as per normal 1 point if tied after 5 kicks. Only 6/7
> players from each club need to travel , can keep 2m rule which
> would be impossible with the suggestion of playing closed door
> games.
>
> It won’t help the clubs financially but it will bring the
> season to a conclusion. Better than cancelling what’s left.


Can you imagine us from the 16/17 season in this situation. Certainly be relegated lol.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 17:58

Quote:

Sliema Par, Wed 8 Apr 16:47

As I said about the Black Death(1347-1351) this will eventually end and I was proved right.

Then we should have televised closed doors matches whenever that day dawns.


It returned on numerous occasions though.

1360–1363; 1374; 1400; 1438–1439; 1456–1457; 1464–1466; 1481–1485; 1500–1503; 1518–1531; 1544–1548; 1563–1566; 1573–1588; 1596–1599; 1602–1611; 1623–1640; 1644–1654; and 1664–1667.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 18:13

Scottish football suspended until June 10th.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 18:14

Quote:

desparado, Thu 9 Apr 16:07

Just arrange penalty shoot outs to finish the season and be done with it. 3 pts if you win pen shoot out ,0 if you lose. 5 kicks as per normal 1 point if tied after 5 kicks. Only 6/7 players from each club need to travel , can keep 2m rule which would be impossible with the suggestion of playing closed door games.

It won’t help the clubs financially but it will bring the season to a conclusion. Better than cancelling what’s left.


You could get away with one - the goalkeeper. In these days of working from home both teams could play at their own and they could watch the other one on phone/laptop etc. Or, if at one ground, they could use opposite ends to maintain better distracting distancing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 18:19

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/coronavirus-joint-response-group-update-9-april/?rid=14258

so you are looking at mid to late July before any football might happen.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 18:35

Quote:

desparado, Thu 9 Apr 16:07

Just arrange penalty shoot outs to finish the season and be done with it. 3 pts if you win pen shoot out ,0 if you lose. 5 kicks as per normal 1 point if tied after 5 kicks. Only 6/7 players from each club need to travel , can keep 2m rule which would be impossible with the suggestion of playing closed door games.

It won’t help the clubs financially but it will bring the season to a conclusion. Better than cancelling what’s left.


I suggested this last month, at least it would be down to skill. It's not ideal but it could work. Potentially Celtic could get beat in every game, which might pose an issue though
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 18:43

sadindiefreak: How long has it taken you to research your post?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 18:47

Quote:

Sliema Par, Thu 9 Apr 18:43

sadindiefreak: How long has it taken you to research your post?


Not long, it's all on the wiki page.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: jwd1103  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 19:19

Sporting Integrity in Scottish Football died with the incarnation of Sevco Rangers. All clubs were culpable in allowing this to happen. So there is no way that ANY Scottish football club can try to play the sporting integrity card at this juncture. Sevco asking for Celtic to have an asterisk against their title win...ok fair enough...you do the same for the titles cups etc won during the EBT years...and an acknowledgement that this incarnation is not going for 55 but for going for 5 ( 3 lower league titles and a Petrofac Cuo). Their arrogance knows no bounds. They need the advance of cash to meet the exorbitant wage bill. Yes there are many clubs in Scotland struggling and who need help but Sevco's whole business model ( to anyone paying attention to anything outwith the SMSM) was all in to stop Celtic getting 9 in a row this season, regardless of the cost...well that was always risky and now when you get the effect of the Coronavirus they're fecked financially, hence the request for funds.

My question is why should Sevco get the same (or better) treatment than well run clubs with limited resources who are suffering ? Answer - it's Scottish football and there MUST be a Rangers any sort of Rangers with a world record history.

Dave King gambled and lost. Big time because of something he couldn't influence. They were a basket case before, the bottom of the basket has fallen out.

This is a chance for Scottish Football to trat all clubs fairly - will it ? History suggests not
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 19:29

How are Rangers getting special treatment?

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: jwd1103  
Date:   Thu 9 Apr 20:40

They always get special treatment. Look at their "liquidation", EBT's etc etc

Look at their accounts. for this season so far. They need this money to survive. Ok so do many other clubs but only they explicitly expressed the need for European football revenues (against UEFA FPP rules yet the SFA let them continue to trade while insolvent. Their whole business strategy for this season was to throw all they had to stop Celtic. Results after Xmas put a dent in this. Coronavirus killed it

Given their history (albeit brief) is anything they say is for their benefit above anyone else and their compliant media fuel this.

Anyhow whenever Sevco speak - they speak with forked tongue
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Kdy Par  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 09:55

So far I have seen the below confirmed.

Yes
Queen of the South
Ayr
Livingston
Raith

No
Rangers
Hearts
Partick
Dundee
Falkirk

Any other clubs announced the way they will vote? How will we vote?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 10:25

“so you are looking at mid to late July before any football might happen.”

How many players will we have on the books in July? How many players will other spfl teams have? Does anyone actually think our league will be played to a finish? I don’t tbh.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 11:23

When you look at the clubs on the 'no' list, it gets an easier proposal to get behind.

The sound of whining Rangers, Hearts, Falkirk and even Dundee fans would be pretty amusing. Nothing against Thistle mind you.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: JimMcDAFC  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 11:24

Just about to say what you did in your first post. jwd 1103. Totally agree with you.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 13:34

17 or 18 mainly the younger ones allparone, most clubs will have 10 or less id guess and apparently Stranraer have no player contracted beyond May 31st.

the season is finished whether certain clubs want to accept that or not they have to! its now a case of what way to finish it will get the required votes not actually what is the best option.

"The sound of whining Rangers, Hearts, Falkirk and even Dundee fans would be pretty amusing"

Dundee owner throwing in a proposal to hand out titles but no promotion or relegation....just so happens to keep Utd in the league then...
another Rangers tantrum this morning, sorry I meant statement both dismissed by the SPFL, I await another "statement" from them now.



Post Edited (Fri 10 Apr 13:42)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 13:42

If Pars vote yes, it's last time I will step into east end, and won't go to any away ground who vote yes.
If Pars were Partick would they vote yes? That's the question, self interest vote rather than intergrity.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 13:52

So unless whatever is decided is unanimous then you won't be back then because no matter the how the leagues proceed someone is going to lose out and won't be voting the way the majority will.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 13:54

Is there any reason we can’t sign players that will play in July? We were playing in July last year.


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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 14:03

We would be able to sign players in July. As said earlier on this thread there are teams who will have no players at the end of may. Theoretically, if the season continues, there could be teams who finish the season with a completely different team to the one that started it. I wonder how some would feel if their club had to finish the season with the youth team and were relegated because of this. Finishing the season now would be better than a farce like that imo.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: storminNorman  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 14:31

the self interest of football clubs has never really been in doubt and as has been posted above if we were in Hearts,Falkirk or Partick's position would the club and fans be accepting a yes vote? absolutely not (self interest) we would be up in arms but (there is always one of them) its over this season is never going to be completed it will be a quiz question in 50 years time.
in my opinion only the self interest of a few must be outweighed by the survival of the rest,the rest being the smaller clubs who if its not completed will no longer exist.is that fair to the 500 who turn up at Brechin 250 at cowdenbeath and all the rest who survive only on these loyal few hundred turning up every home game.
the Pars would probably survive with the help of our lager support but this is unprecedented in most of our life times more important is saving life's and that includes football players lives.
unfortunately even when thousands are not making it the self interest in football still amazes me but it does not surprise me as CASH is king no interest in more important things in the world at these moments in time.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 14:31

"If Pars vote yes, it's last time I will step into east end, and won't go to any away ground who vote yes.
If Pars were Partick would they vote yes? That's the question, self interest vote rather than intergrity. "

It's arguably a selfless move by the Pars if we vote "Yes". We lose prize money by getting re-positioned to 6th place and we're probably more likely to scrape into the top 4 than fall to 9th or 10th. I don't support the proposal, but "never going back?" Catch yourself on.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 14:55

''...the Pars would probably survive with the help of our lager support...'

I'll drink to that! (other beers are also available).
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 15:00

Why not make it mandatory that players contracts are extended until the season ends ?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 15:06

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Fri 10 Apr 15:00

Why not make it mandatory that players contracts are extended until the season ends ?


I’d doubt the law would allow that. These aren’t football specific contracts. They are employment contracts which would mean both employer and employee would need to agree to the contract changes.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 15:07

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 15:18

they wouldn't be able to sign anywhere else until the season ended as the transfer window would still be closed, the league could enforce their own rule that no player can be registered after March 31st too so no new players.

a bigger problem if its true is the furlough scheme only applies for the current length of contract, so any extensions would rule those players out meaning the club having to pay them in full.

the season is over though so none of it will matter.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 15:29

World be disgusted of we voted anything other than yes to this
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 15:31

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 15:32

I would think we would. Ross Mcarthur is on the spfl board that proposed this is he not?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Kdy Par  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 15:33

100% disagree. It’s an unfair proposal. The only vote can be no.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 15:38

Ross is on the board. Rangers also have a representative on the board though - so it's probably not safe to assume being on the SPFL board = voting yes.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 15:38

Quote:

dafc, Fri 10 Apr 13:42

If Pars vote yes, it's last time I will step into east end, and won't go to any away ground who vote yes.
If Pars were Partick would they vote yes? That's the question, self interest vote rather than intergrity.


Stay off the glue.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 16:31

I didn't realise reconstruction was on the table, if the clubs vote 'Yes' to the SPFL proposals. That might just swing it. It's not difficult to see why clubs such as Hearts, Parick, Falkirk and Stranraer are against it are against it. (Therangers are against anything which doesn't benefit them, of course.)

If this goes through, we'll have no relegation and a 14-10-10-10 set up next season. I'd bet my house on it.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 16:49

Quote:

dafc, Fri 10 Apr 13:42

If Pars vote yes, it's last time I will step into east end, and won't go to any away ground who vote yes.
If Pars were Partick would they vote yes? That's the question, self interest vote rather than intergrity.


Ludicrous post, away run your head under a cold to tap son
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 17:07

Inverness,Partick and Dundee are all going to vote against this proposal so it's dead on arrival
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 17:32

Reports that it passed leagues 1&2 but championship failed to get enough votes for. Not confirmed though.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 17:44

Quote:

allparone, Fri 10 Apr 17:32

Reports that it passed leagues 1&2 but championship failed to get enough votes for. Not confirmed though.


Is there to be just one vote and the mandate is to abide by the decision?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 17:49

passed in the Premier and League 1 and 2, all waiting on 1 Championship club....

https://spfl.co.uk/news/statement-from-the-spfl-board
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 17:56

Quote:

GJS93, Fri 10 Apr 17:49

passed in the Premier and League 1 and 2, all waiting on 1 Championship club....

https://spfl.co.uk/news/statement-from-the-spfl-board


Right down to the wire then. The club still to cast its vote will realise it will define Scottish football's immediate future.

Wasn't the deadline 5 pm? A chairman with a broken watch?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 17:56

Quote:

GJS93, Fri 10 Apr 17:49

passed in the Premier and League 1 and 2, all waiting on 1 Championship club....

https://spfl.co.uk/news/statement-from-the-spfl-board


How can there be w deadline and we still have votes to come in? Where is the control ?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: RMGpar  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 17:59

Rusty Shackleford Obviously we are looking after our own, turn your post around if Partick were sitting 2nd bottom would they vote no?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:00

Said club possibly weighing up the size of the cheque from Sevco :)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:02

The championship club is Inverness it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:05

I bet it’s Dundee.

Championship needs 8 YES votes for the SPFL proposal to go through.

buffysbuns.wordpress.com
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:05

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Fri 10 Apr 17:44

Quote:

allparone, Fri 10 Apr 17:32

Reports that it passed leagues 1&2 but championship failed to get enough votes for. Not confirmed though.


Is there to be just one vote and the mandate is to abide by the decision?


Not sure but I think if it passes one vote would be enough. If it fails another offer would need to be put on the table as there’s no guarantee this season can be finished.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:06

Quote:

buffy, Fri 10 Apr 18:05

I bet it’s Dundee.

Championship needs 8 YES votes for the SPFL proposal to go through.


Dundee released a statement earlier that suggests they were voting against the proposal.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:09

It is,frankly,beyond belief that a deadline has come and gone and each club knows how the others have voted.

Especially when there is so much at stake.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:10

The deadline is 28 days. Spfl asked clubs to vote by 5pm but they can’t enforce it seemingly.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:19

Quote:

Sliema Par, Fri 10 Apr 18:09

It is,frankly,beyond belief that a deadline has come and gone and each club knows how the others have voted.

Especially when there is so much at stake.


With the benefit of hindsight, it would have been smarter if the SPFL had not released these partial results.

Eta. Will the SPFL now compound their cockup by announcing the name of the dithering Championship club?



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Fri 10 Apr 18:31)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:19

Quote:

allparone, Fri 10 Apr 18:10

The deadline is 28 days. Spfl asked clubs to vote by 5pm but they can’t enforce it seemingly.


Joke




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:21

That club should be put under massive pressure to vote yes
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:21

Unbelievable Jeff.

I could give you the Russian Presidential result 2024 NOW!!

To be more serious,it will call the SPFL's blatant bluff about considering League Reconstruction.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:28

Quote:

Sliema Par, Fri 10 Apr 18:21

Unbelievable Jeff.

I could give you the Russian Presidential result 2024 NOW!!

To be more serious,it will call the SPFL's blatant bluff about considering League Reconstruction.


If this proposal fails, the SPFL will come in with a 2 new league clubs, two promotions per league and no relegation.

Just watch those voting "No" this time, voting "Yes" to that.... 🙂



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:34

and some voting yes will change to no on that one, in particular the premier league and when its then a 11-1 vote and that aint gonna pass.

reconstruction might be a bluff but its highly unlikely even if it isn't and in the situation we are in now imo.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:44

Quote:

GJS93, Fri 10 Apr 18:34

and some voting yes will change to no on that one, in particular the premier league and when its then a 11-1 vote and that aint gonna pass.

reconstruction might be a bluff but its highly unlikely even if it isn't and in the situation we are in now imo.


True but they might be able to sell it as a one season only arrangement. A 14 team top league would split into a top 6 - bottom 8 after 26 games. Would do away with the ludicrous 3 home games and 1 away ( or vice versa) against the same opponents.

Funny how that never happened in games involving a couple of Glasgow clubs.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:46

An SPFL "source" has informed the BBC he thinks that the missing club will scuttle their proposal.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:47

and vote to relegate 3 teams in that one season and also lose a minimum of 1 home OF game along with a Hearts or a Hibs etc?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 18:59

It would be very unfair to Brora and Kelty if they cannot get a chance to join the league.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 19:08

Quote:

GJS93, Fri 10 Apr 18:47

and vote to relegate 3 teams in that one season and also lose a minimum of 1 home OF game along with a Hearts or a Hibs etc?


That's a fair point. Oh well, let's wait and see how it all pans out.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 19:12

Quote:

eastendalloapar, Fri 10 Apr 18:59

It would be very unfair to Brora and Kelty if they cannot get a chance to join the league.


That's a good point but I wouldn't imagine too many league clubs would lose any sleep over it. There is the question of sporting integrity. Brora and Kelty would have perhaps had promotion to League 2 as their target this season. Why should that possibility now be snatched away from them through no fault of their own?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 19:21

GG, The 3 home 1 away situation only happens when a team finishes the other side of the split than they did the previous year. The fixture are arranged so that if every team finished in the same 1/2 of the table as previous year the it would be 2 home and away. In the 16/17 season The Rangers were scheduled to finish in the bottom 6 as a newly promoted team, however at the split they took Motherwells place at by chance (hmmm) they had 2 home and away old firm.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 19:36

Given Hearts and Rangers went very public in vociferously attacking the proposal; why did only one Premiership club vote against?

Why has another Premiership club not voted?

I presume Dunfermline Athletic voted "Yes".

Finally, I wonder what the thinking of the mystery Championship club is.

No one mentioned the 28 day ruling till 544pm today.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 19:40

I have to say I'm absolutely astounded Rangers and Hearts voted against the proposal.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: RossF  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 19:56

It sounds like Inverness are the club not to vote, according to the papers today and Dundee and Partick (obviously) are the clubs that voted no. It’s strange why they have not just voted - like every other club
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 19:58

I thought I had grasped this vote ... but now I don't have a scooby !! maybe my age :( wtf is going on ? no wonder we were... are... and soon to be again the laughing stock in footballing circles
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 20:06

Well apparently Inverness have voted but the vote has went missing 😅😅
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 20:47

Quote:

dafc-chris1, Fri 10 Apr 20:06

Well apparently Inverness have voted but the vote has went missing 😅😅


It's maybe so embarrassed it's gone into hiding.....



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 21:03

Quote:

DulochConvert, Fri 10 Apr 19:21

GG, The 3 home 1 away situation only happens when a team finishes the other side of the split than they did the previous year. The fixture are arranged so that if every team finished in the same 1/2 of the table as previous year the it would be 2 home and away. In the 16/17 season The Rangers were scheduled to finish in the bottom 6 as a newly promoted team, however at the split they took Motherwells place at by chance (hmmm) they had 2 home and away old firm.


Yeah, I know mate, but it's really unsatisfactory when it does happen, especially if you have 3 away games v your main relegation rival as it could affect a club's future for years to come. Look at Thistle now. A few years ago, they finished in the Top 6.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 21:17

"It appears that there may be “a technical question-mark” over the competence of Dundee’s no vote”...from Charles Paterson on Sky.

means sod all though as it will remain a no or void at best/worst so the vote falls through.



Post Edited (Fri 10 Apr 21:54)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 21:20

Looks like ma hoose is safe..... ☺

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/10/scottish-premiership-set-for-increase-to-14-team-league-next-season



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 21:55

Sounds like the self preservation league strike again. Save the Jambos and promote ICT to stop them dissenting.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 21:57

Telt ye.

From Daily Record Sport on Twitter :

“ Dundee confirm SPFL resolution stance as Dens Park club decline to vote on season-ending measures “.

buffysbuns.wordpress.com
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 22:19

Quote:

buffy, Fri 10 Apr 21:57

Telt ye.

From Daily Record Sport on Twitter :

“ Dundee confirm SPFL resolution stance as Dens Park club decline to vote on season-ending measures “.


Good shout Buffy. ICT must’ve voted against the motion then.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 23:05

another twist, Kheredine Idessane on twitter

1025pm
"When I said there may be a big twist to this @spfl story , little did I know just HOW much drama was going on. 3 Championship clubs filled out “reject” voting slips. @PartickThistle @ICTFC @DundeeFC Only 2 arrived at the @spfl offices. 1 club is thinking of changing their vote"

"More to follow on @BBCSportsound, Sat. This story could blow up. @BBCSportScot @BBCScotlandNews @PartickThistle @DundeeFC @ICTFC Are @DundeeFC going to change their vote to a ‘yes’, carry the @spfl resolution to ‘call’ tiers 2-4 now, and potentially crown @CelticFC champions?"



Post Edited (Fri 10 Apr 23:06)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 23:07

Dundee king makers lol
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Fri 10 Apr 23:56

So does the 14, 10, 10, 10 model give Celtic, United, Raith & Cove a title?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 07:39

Unless I’m missing something glaringly obvious, I’m incredibly disappointed that my club voted for these proposals. I honestly don’t know why we bothered going along on a Saturday.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 07:43

Up till now, I have thought the SPFL offer to "look at League Reconstruction" was about as valid as the piece of paper Neville Chamberlain waved announcing "Peace In Our Time".

If this shambles of epic propositions has made League Reconstruction more likely,the cloud has a silver lining.

BBC "Sportsound" looks to be guaranteed a huge audience.

On General Election night thousands of votes are counted accurately.

They only had 42 to count, for goodness sake!

Every media outlet in the land told us we would have a verdict at 5pm not this 28 day nonsense.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 07:50

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sat 11 Apr 07:43

Up till now, I have thought the SPFL offer to "look at League Reconstruction" was about as valid as the piece of paper Neville Chamberlain waved announcing "Peace In Our Time".

If this shambles of epic propositions has made League Reconstruction more likely,the cloud has a silver lining.

BBC "Sportsound" looks to be guaranteed a huge audience.

On General Election night thousands of votes are counted accurately.

They only had 42 to count, for goodness sake!

Every media outlet in the land told us we would have a verdict at 5pm not this 28 day nonsense.


It would seem the 2 are tied together which is extremely good news.

The idea of league reconstruction sits well with me. They have to complete the leagues first though...clearly.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 07:51

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52230105


This is the kind of thing clubs should have been considering





Post Edited (Sat 11 Apr 07:53)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 07:55

Quote:

pars_andy, Sat 11 Apr 07:51

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52230105


This is the kind of thing clubs should have been considering



That won’t happen. This lockdown won’t be lifted in 4 weeks.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 08:01

Might be exceptions for behind closed doors games in England. They have people working on building sites down there so I don’t see why not. And plenty of people who can’t work from home are still going to work





Post Edited (Sat 11 Apr 08:02)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Bucuresti Par  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 08:17

It is time to get more radical and end all the bickering over promotion and relegation. Lets just have one league of 42 teams next season, play each other once, take the game all around the country. Whoever wins can truly claim to be champions of Scotland!
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: KirklistonPar  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 08:33

👆🏻 That would make an interesting season. Great novelty!
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 08:36


Quote:

Buspasspar, Thu 6 Feb 08:26

Wonder if the Jambo's remain bottom there will be a league reconstruction for next season ?

Telt ye :)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 08:42

If the League 1 and 2 vote is confirmed as 16-3 which club abstained?

Has another vote gone missing?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: storminNorman  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 11:26

so Dundee it looks like have taken the decision to deffer the vote its within the rules to withhold until a later date.
so what now?
the SPFL have put forward the way they wanted to complete this season even a yes vote would still probably have to have been ratified by UEFA but i cant see anyway out for this body at the moment.
its totally outwith the control of any footballing body the Governments are making all decisions at the moment and no end is in sight so no football for at least another two months maybe.
so might be time for the SPFL to sit back and let the law of the jungle take over no prize money issued if clubs go to the wall so be it,the less clubs to pay prize money to the more there is for the rest of us a win win situation surely.
yep self interest but its not just me its chairman at the top of our game who decided to reject so its on their conscience,ohh wait don't be silly they wont give a hoot about the less well off teams going down the tubes.
the only thing that would have any impact would be if one of our largest clubs who are supposed to be struggling anyway fell by the wayside does anyone seriously think SKY and BT will be paying many millions for our game? no maybe a few hundred thousand,then how long will these americans last in our game not long i bet.

this is not a scenario i agree with in anyway and when i said self interest it was in the context of a discussion as i have posted my opinion above in other posts but this might now play out in the worst case scenario for some clubs and unfortunately the fans.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 12:04

Quote:

pars_andy, Sat 11 Apr 08:01

Might be exceptions for behind closed doors games in England. They have people working on building sites down there so I don’t see why not. And plenty of people who can’t work from home are still going to work



I’m one of the people who’s working because I can’t work at home. I have to adhere to social distancing advice and so do my colleagues. Football would be interesting if players needed to stay 2m from each other. As long as social distancing rules are in place there will be no football. These rules will last a lot longer than the lockdown as well I’d imagine.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 12:05

"It is time to get more radical and end all the bickering over promotion and relegation. Lets just have one league of 42 teams next season, play each other once, take the game all around the country. Whoever wins can truly claim to be champions of Scotland!"

That's a recipe to turn fans off in spades.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 12:18

“ I’m one of the people who’s working because I can’t work at home. I have to adhere to social distancing advice and so do my colleagues. Football would be interesting if players needed to stay 2m from each other. As long as social distancing rules are in place there will be no football. These rules will last a lot longer than the lockdown as well I’d imagine.”

They could maybe overcome this restriction by using PPE?

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 12:27

Quote:

pars_andy, Sat 11 Apr 12:18

“ I’m one of the people who’s working because I can’t work at home. I have to adhere to social distancing advice and so do my colleagues. Football would be interesting if players needed to stay 2m from each other. As long as social distancing rules are in place there will be no football. These rules will last a lot longer than the lockdown as well I’d imagine.”

They could maybe overcome this restriction by using PPE?


Ha ha, aye. I wear a face mask at work and wouldn’t like to do any strenuous exercise when wearing one. They restrict your breathing a bit. There would be players passing out all over the place and that’s without mentioning face visors/specs.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 12:38

Quote:

pars_andy, Sat 11 Apr 12:18

“ I’m one of the people who’s working because I can’t work at home. I have to adhere to social distancing advice and so do my colleagues. Football would be interesting if players needed to stay 2m from each other. As long as social distancing rules are in place there will be no football. These rules will last a lot longer than the lockdown as well I’d imagine.”

They could maybe overcome this restriction by using PPE?


^^^ Would love to see a mock-up strip 😁

DunfyDave
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Rigger Al  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 12:48

Another 28 day delay because they dont like the out come

Deadline time was 5pm ,whatever the count was then should stand .

All clubs knew the requirements so move on with the resultbof the vote .

Clubs who decided not to vote lost there opertunity .
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 12:56

clubs were asked to vote before 5pm, company law states they have 28 days which still stands.

more from Kheredine Idessane

3h3 hours ago
"Morning. Knowing what everyone else did, @DundeeFC now hold the casting @spfl vote. My info is they signed and dated a ‘no’ slip but didnt actually cast their vote. Meaning they could now change to ‘yes’. If they do, the motion to ‘call the season’ passes"

and what are they trying to achieve with this?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 12:56

Clubs had 28 days to respond according to league rules.


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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 13:01

If Raith and Falkirk were to come into the championship it would be a great league. Don't see why bottom teams shouldn't be relegated though. Seems a touch unfair on the teams sat in play-off positions.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 13:29

If Dundee don't vote yes then they will have blood on their hands

Post Edited (Sat 11 Apr 13:29)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 13:33

Quote:

dafc-chris1, Sat 11 Apr 13:29

If Dundee don't vote yes then they will have blood on their hands


Just Dundee? What about the other clubs voting no. Who can blame them? They were potentially going up in a play-off position. Now it'll be potentially Dundee Utd and ICT going up with no relegation for Hearts. That's a nonsense.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 13:47

Partick voting no i can see the reasoning no club is going to vote for relegation but Dundee and Inverness are putting clubs at risk just for a playoff place there are bigger things to worry about here
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 15:10

What is coming out now on BBC Radio Scotland "Sportsound" is as startling as it is outrageous .

The contortions of Dundee FC are being forensically examined by the likes of Tom English,Michael Stewart,Kenny Miller,Richard Gordon,Willie Miller etc.

The Inverness Chairman has laid bare the events of yesterday.

Most clubs have asked, ie begged, for the release of funds immediately ie the Rangers motion and which is being blocked by the SPFL Board.

Dundee cannot be contacted.

There is no necessity whatever, as yet, to have long term consequences ie relegation.Decisions are being taken behind close doors.It is meant to be a members' organisation.

Rangers are calling for an Independent Investigation says Kheradine BBC.They want Neil Doncaster suspended.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 15:15

Quote:

eastendalloapar, Fri 10 Apr 18:59

It would be very unfair to Brora and Kelty if they cannot get a chance to join the league.


At the moment there are only 42 teams in the SPFL.
The proposal would mean 44 teams.
Both Brora and Kelty would join the league without the need for a playoff.
Hardly unfair on them is it.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 15:30

What happens in the 21/22 season do we go back to 42 teams? Can’t see why any team in D2 would have voted for 3 team demoted or most other leagues to be honest could you imagine the current league with 3 automatic demotions!
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: back oh the net  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 15:32

Quote:

pars_andy, Sat 11 Apr 07:51

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52230105


This is the kind of thing clubs should have been considering



Aye and PFA Scotland would have an absolute field day with that

Come on ye pars ⚽️
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 15:46

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 16:09

The Inverness CT Chairman has exposed Dundee's actions just now on "Sportsound".
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 16:17

We have always taken it for granted that League Reconstruction has no chance of success due to the albatross around our necks of the 11-1 vote.

Tom English said, on "BBC Sportsound" ,that reliable sources suggest the big clubs are shifting their stance.

By all accounts Rangers are apoplectic.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Rigger Al  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 16:27

This season should be nul and void .

Reconstruction is a must .Listen to them paying fans.

My opinion is a 16 or 18 team league .

Corruption at yesterdays vote simply because they didnt get the result they wanted .

There is another VIRUS and that is Docaster ,He is killing Scottish football and clubs .

He must resign after this voting fiasco
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 16:32

and the smaller clubs in the top flight have nothing to gain out of it so it still wouldn't go through, as the Forfar chairman said if they went to 14 why would they want to lose having 2 from Partick, Raith and Falkirk in their league?

Dundee refusing to make comment isn't helping, make a decision and then move on one way or another!

null and void means no money, not an option!

looking forward to seeing this evidence this "whistleblower" has given Rangers, in saying that they need a "whistleblower" when their on Managing Director is on the SPFL board! who also if the media are correct had a bit of a meltdown yesterday....hmmm. SPFL chairman demanding the evidence or a withdrawl of the accusation, if they are right then its a big problem, if they are wrong what lies in store for Rangers?



Post Edited (Sat 11 Apr 16:57)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 16:51

STV latest
https://news.stv.tv/sport/football/rangers-call-for-spfl-chief-neil-doncaster-to-be-suspended?top&&__twitter_impression=true
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 16:59

The SPFL have replied to Rangers statement which pretty much says put up or shut up. I can’t find a link to it at the moment but a screenshot of it is on one of the bbc journos page on twitter.


Link here


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-blast-back-rangers-demand-21851602

Post Edited (Sat 11 Apr 17:03)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Kdy Par  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 17:02

Quote:

dafc-chris1, Sat 11 Apr 13:29

If Dundee don't vote yes then they will have blood on their hands

Post Edited (Sat 11 Apr 13:29)


How is this Dundee’s fault? What about ICT and Partick?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Pars11  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 17:27

The vote is far from over, the BBC are reporting that 3 teams have delayed voting citing league rules as giving 28 days from Friday past to reply;

The outcome of the SPFL's proposal to finish the lower league season may not be known until May.

The 17:00 BST vote passed with only 39 out of 42 teams having responded, with the fate of the resolution resting on one Scottish Championship club.

However, it has emerged under league rules that clubs actually have 28 days to submit an answer, and that Friday's deadline was a requested cut off.

The motion would bring the lower league seasons to an end now.

For the SPFL motion to be passed, it needs nine Premiership clubs, eight in the Championship, and 15 in Leagues One and Two combined to vote in favour. Ten in the top flight have voted for, with seven in the Championship and 16 in the lower leagues doing likewise.

A vote for would also lead to the Premiership being called on the same points per game basis if the SPFL board "determines the games cannot be played".

Reaction as fans await SPFL vote outcome
"It is very important that clubs consider carefully the resolution and we are grateful to those clubs who have voted already," said an SPFL spokesperson.

"With the Ladbrokes Premiership and Ladbrokes Leagues 1 & 2 divisions each having approved the resolution, we await the voting slip from the one Ladbrokes Championship club that has yet to vote. We will provide an update as soon as we are in a position to do so."

Bluebell Polka
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: king lad  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 17:40

Don't think I've ever agreed with any sentence in a Rangers statement before but the suspension of Neil Doncaster would get my full support. What an absolute shambles this situation is. Sounds as if Dundee are holding out until they get certain 'favours' from other clubs? What did the ICT chairman say regarding Dundee?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: storminNorman  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 18:16

i might be wrong here but surely Doncaster he is the CEO but any big decisions have to be agreed by the rest of the SPFL board and he would only have the deciding vote in a tie? so if any evidence does exist it brings into question not only him but a lot more board members who must be in on any mismanagement.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 18:18

Agreed king lad sacked would get my full support
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 18:26

Quote:

king lad, Sat 11 Apr 17:40

Don't think I've ever agreed with any sentence in a Rangers statement before but the suspension of Neil Doncaster would get my full support. What an absolute shambles this situation is. Sounds as if Dundee are holding out until they get certain 'favours' from other clubs? What did the ICT chairman say regarding Dundee?


Remember how we got relegated and Dundee went up.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 19:22

"but the suspension of Neil Doncaster would get my full support"....not sure how you can come to that conclusion unless you have seen this evidence Rangers apparently have.

"Sounds as if Dundee are holding out until they get certain 'favours' from other clubs? What did the ICT chairman say regarding Dundee?"

https://twitter.com/Nick_Russell__/status/1248960689168945152

Gardiner was basically just reading this out with a few other comments not on there and explaining it. someone must have leaked the chat and somehow this person got hold of it



Post Edited (Sat 11 Apr 19:29)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 19:29


"but the suspension of Neil Doncaster would get my full support"....not sure how you can come to that conclusion unless you have seen this evidence Rangers apparently have.”

—————

We’ve got years of evidence of incompetence!

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: JimMcDAFC  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 19:30

It seems like the club's were pressured into voting this through so they could get most if not all of the media money immediately as most are desperate for this money to see them through this crisis but the money would be withheld for longer if they voted against this proposal. Same tactics they tried to get away with in the rangers situation. Would be better if the whole structure was torn apart and we start again and find competant people to run our game with integrity, fairness and truth.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 19:49

Absolutely. This proposal is rotten to the core.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 20:08

JimMcDAFC
Well said
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 20:34

I haven't followed things closely this week, but I'm not understanding the league reconstruction thing. If reconstruction was a near certainty should the motion pass, why would Inverness have opposed it? Of all the clubs, they would have most to gain from it.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: king lad  
Date:   Sat 11 Apr 21:21

Quote:

pars_andy, Sat 11 Apr 19:29


"but the suspension of Neil Doncaster would get my full support"....not sure how you can come to that conclusion unless you have seen this evidence Rangers apparently have.”

—————

We’ve got years of evidence of incompetence!


Apologies didn't make it clear, I wasn't saying for this situation. Doncaster has shown ineptitude for several years now but is still unscathed
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DBA  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 00:27

What an utter shambles. Why would they release votes when 3 clubs still had to vote? For that alone, Doncaster should go - no results should have been released without his approval.

There's no easy answer to this - my personal opinion is to play the final games as the start of next season, have a break before 'next season' starts (30 days?), then play next season to a finish into June/July next year. Not ideal, but better than calling it now IMO.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 07:01

Quote:

Socks, Sat 11 Apr 20:34

I haven't followed things closely this week, but I'm not understanding the league reconstruction thing. If reconstruction was a near certainty should the motion pass, why would Inverness have opposed it? Of all the clubs, they would have most to gain from it.


Scott Gardiner, of ICT, was on Sportsound yesterday. He explained that his club felt that they could not vote for a proposal which would relegate Partick, (and also Hearts and Stranraer) even though They would have pocketed £330k almost immediately. They obviously didn't assume that reconstruction which would save these clubs from relegation would necessarily follow.

Forfar's chairman on the other hand, was very candid. He said that the money they would get - less than £4k - was not a consideration. Teams in League 1 would prefer to see Partick and Falkirk next season -as opposed to Cove and Edinburgh - as this would significantly increase their income, so they don't want reconstruction with no relegation....



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 07:09

Seems ICT are one of the very few clubs who voted, not out of self interest, but for the integrity of the game.
Their chairman came accross on Sportsound as very principled.
Dundee really need to come out now and state their case given that they said they had voted but refused to resubmit their vote when it wasn't recieved by the SPFL.
The whole thing stinks.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 07:59

For all those on the Forum who did not hear yesterday's BBC "Sportsound" 2-330pm yesterday,please try to catch it.

I too was very suspicious of the motives of Inverness CT, inferring they had acted out of self interest.

Clearly they hadn't.Scott Gardiner gave a minute by minute account of the alarming events of Friday afternoon and then supplied documentary evidence one can now google.He said they could not countenance causing financial harm to other football,clubs even if it delayed the £330k they are desperate for.

Many of us are incredulous that the SPFL is trying to conflate the two things of promotion and relegation with the release of funds.

Those funds could have been released one month ago.

The SPFL need to explain themselves.Talk of bullying and coercion,decisions behind closed doors,the refusal to accept the Rangers' motion and the farcical stewardship of the voting are disturbing given Scottish Football faces an existential threat.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 08:32

Its a mess but consistent with our governing body
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 08:49

The main things we need is the money distributed and we also need some clarity on the way we move forward from this
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 08:57

League Reconstruction has always been thwarted by the utter nonsense of the 11-1 voting requirement.

However ,Tom English, of BBC Radio Scotland, says reliable sources suggest the major clubs' views are now changing considerably.

BBC "Sportsound" returns today at noon.



Post Edited (Sun 12 Apr 09:00)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 09:18

dafc-chris.... we can’t have clarity on how we move forward until we see how long the lockdown lasts and when ‘mass gatherings’ will be permitted. That’s exactly why we shouldn’t be making decisions at the present moment. Distribute the money and wait!

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 09:21

wonder if its the same sources that claimed Ayr were a team who felt bullied into voting yes when their chairman responded to that claim saying its totally untrue.
again big or major clubs depending on which post, why would the smaller clubs vote for it with nothing to gain!

"Their chairman came accross on Sportsound as very principled"

words I and many wouldn't associate with Scot Gardiner that's for sure.

you can have the clarity as you know this season is finished, who is in what league etc and its one less problem to deal with. its not all about the money.



Post Edited (Sun 12 Apr 09:27)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 09:29

"What an utter shambles. Why would they release votes when 3 clubs still had to vote? For that alone, Doncaster should go - no results should have been released without his approval."

Absolutely correct - Doncaster should have employed an experienced external body to conduct a professionallyl organised ballot where votes weren't counted until all papers were returned, and it was not possible to know how any single club voted, unless they wished to divulge that after the count.

The mess that transpired had some journalists with access to a few individual club returns before all were in and the outcome made public.

Acutely embarrassing doesn't even begin to cover it.

It is time for one single governing body, this is more evidence to support that.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 09:43

This ^^^^^
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 09:56

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5484409/dundee-could-propose-league-reconstruction-spfl-nelms/

would explain the chats with Inverness and Partick who would benefit massively but what do Dundee gain out of this?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 09:56

How would having one governing body necessarily improve things? The SFA has had as much stick over the years as the SPFL - possibly more.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 10:10

There is only one governing body. The SPFL is just a league same as Lowland League or South of Scotland League. This is another canard like the guff that there are too many clubs in Scotland
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 10:14

Raith Chairman views

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5484179/raith-bill-clark-dundee-outcasts-no-spfl-resolution/amp/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 10:14

If there really is only one governing body - then the voting process should have been conducted by the SFA.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 11:01

Quote:

saltonsgonagetu, Sun 12 Apr 10:14

Raith Chairman views

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5484179/raith-bill-clark-dundee-outcasts-no-spfl-resolution/amp/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true


Do you expect he would say anything else ?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 11:05

Meh...Raith are clearly just looking for the league to be decided so they gain promotion. And why is reconstruction dependent on a yes vote? And why are we falling for the usual arm twisting *****. Again, so disappointed that my club didn’t have the guts to do the right thing.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 11:09

If Rangers have evidence. Let's have it in the public domain. Let's see who within the spfl and also Board members what role they played. Spfl apparently phoning clubs just before 5pm saying who had voted etc and how it was looking.
Get the independent experts in to look at computers and phone records of all those involved.
Dundee now being hung out to dry.
Looks like ICT were the only actual club to vote with integrity.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 11:24

Our club "do the right thing" which is ?
Safe guard the immediate future of our club?
Admit this season may never finish but stay waiting on the off chance we can ,and thereby put next season on hold ,as for sporting integrity ,would there be the same interest if Partick and Hearts were replaced by Hamilton and Alloa ,I don't think so .

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 11:24

I am pretty much in agreement with the Raith Chairman here
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 11:24

I think we voted with integrity. Draw a line under the season, ready to start afresh when we come through the other side of this. We lose a place and the consequent prize money and give up our chance of making the promotion play-offs.

It's not how I would have voted if it was down to me, but I don't think DAFC can be accused of voting down to self-interest.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 11:38

The much lamented late Broadcaster Bob Crampsey said Football was a unique business as you cannot afford to bankrupt your competitor.

I have no doubt our Chairman and Board acted with integrity.They are the custodians of our Club and act in the best interests of all of us. They undoubtedly have the backing of the overwhelming majority of Pars Fans.

We are missing out on a likely Premiership play off spot ,we are losing funds as the only club, strangely, downgraded in the merit League.I suspect the decision to vote "yes" was not done without much soul searching.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 11:41

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sun 12 Apr 07:59
.

Those funds could have been released one month ago.



Seen a few posts about this, I get the impression you're not fully aware of how the finances work in regards to league placings...

Teams receive payments throughout the season from the SPFL amounting to the lowest league position, at the end of the season when the placings are confirmed they'll then get topped up to wherever they finish.

So going by this link https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-prize-pot-reaches-25m you can figure out how much each teams are still to recieve, the league can't give out the final payment because the league hasn't finished yet and the final placings haven't been decided. So what money should the SPFL give if the teams haven't declared on there final position?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 11:45

This talk of Inverness voting with integrity can get in the bin aswell, the reason they've voted no is that they can read the situation and with a big Premier league side currently in 12th place they reckon the time is right for league re construction, with that the most likely scenario, and one often mooted is having 2 promotions from the championship, league one etc and no relegations from the Premier. They've voted in there own self interest, as every team has.

If Inverness were in our position, or even in third then they would've voted the proposal through.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 11:48

Michael Stewart answered your valid point on BBC Radio Scotland "Sportsound" yesterday.

He said the SPFL can hand out the sums based on current placings now.

Then the amounts can be tweaked and the balance paid or a sum deducted in the following season.

"Sportsound" is to continue at noon today.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 11:59

"Dundee now being hung out to dry.
Looks like ICT were the only actual club to vote with integrity"

Dundee are at it and have been all along imo, Inverness too as Grant says.
the problem with the vote not being received which also happened with Hearts who re-submitted theirs immediately has actually played in to their hands as Drysdale says in the leaked messages. now its their turn to "bully" the league in to getting what they want but that's ok apparently
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 12:05

Any one arguing that "Inverness Are At It" was not listening to BBC "Sportsound" yesterday afternoon.

"Sportsound" is just restarting now.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 12:21

So, the Ayr chairman has confirmed that he isn’t and has never been in a WhatsApp group with other clubs. Only outside person he spoke to about this was Ian McCall. So did Inverness/Partick voting ‘no’ create a WhatsApp group, trying to manipulate other clubs into voting ‘no’ and just leave out clubs that weren’t going to vote for it, or is this whole scenario made up?

Regardless of what the answer to the above is, it is poor for anyone to be trying to influence the vote of other clubs, as the Inverness chairman has done. Likewise, people like the Raith chairman coming out and trying to swing Dundee’s vote the other way is poor behaviour. Nobody should have any influence on how other clubs vote. Likewise, the SPFL shouldn’t have been making comments like they have, to try and bully clubs into voting for their resolution.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: storminNorman  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 12:21

of course ICT are at it don't be fooled by the chairman's making out they voted in the best interest of other clubs,no they voted hoping that league reconstruction happens they get promoted probably save their skin financially into the bargain and they get the added guarantee of Hearts still being in the top league and bringing a good support to them.
they have no interest in the rest of us it's self interest and preservation just the norm in modern football as i say cash is king and how much more ICT can get their hands on after reconstruction if it happens.
as i always say this post is only my opinion on the actions of ICT.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 12:33

^^ exactly!
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 12:46

Roy McGregor making some great points on Sportsound. The most important thing for him when making their (Ross County) decision was next season. They cannot plan because they don’t know how much money they will be getting as there’s no guarantee when the season will start. He will lose players and without a known budget he can’t sign new players. He also said there will be clubs who go to the wall by then as well. He made some great point and then it went back to the pundits who seem to have ignored his comments and still peddle the line that the season must be finished. How can you finish a season when clubs don’t have enough players to field teams and some clubs won’t even exist any longer?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 12:47

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sun 12 Apr 12:05

Any one arguing that "Inverness Are At It" was not listening to BBC "Sportsound" yesterday afternoon.

"Sportsound" is just restarting now.


Anyone arguing that Inverness are at it are fully correct.

Those how beleive they aren't have been hoodwinked by Scott bloody Gardiner.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 12:48

Allparone.....Nonsense. He voted the way he did to avoid the possibility of relegation.
The season should be finished whenever it’s safe to play football again. Even if it’s next year.




Post Edited (Sun 12 Apr 12:50)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 12:50

What puzzles me is the Dundee vote not received scenario.

If that was the case, surely all they had to do was resubmit it soonest ?

Now there's a suggestion that they wish to reconsider - doesn't add up.

What ever pans out there needs to be an investigation into how this voting process was conducted.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 12:51

Maybe he did but his points are valid. Every chairman that has been in the media has said the same thing. They will lose out of contract players in June. They won’t, for a number of reasons be able to sign new players. There will be clubs who are out the game by then. How can a season be completed under these circumstances?

Post Edited (Sun 12 Apr 12:52)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 12:53

You start it whenever it’s safe to play football again. Obviously pay out the price money now but make adjustments when final positions are decided

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 12:58

Any company director is required by company law to promote the success of his/her company although he/she has to consider the ramifications of any decisions for others connected with the company. That could be interpreted as acting in their self-interest but it's a legal requirement.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 13:02

What adjustments? You and Sliema have both said it and it's an utterly ridiculous, stupid and downright dangerous idea.

By your proposal the SPFL would pay Ayr 325 grand, Ayr are only 4 points ahead of seventh placed Morton, are you then saying the SPFL should then chase up Ayr for 113 thousand pounds?! It would kill them, at a time when clubs are struggling financially you propose that, absolutely ridiculous. Any extra money the clubs get its going to get spend straight away trying to plug the costs. They won't hold that hundred grand back.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 13:06

Yet the team who is currently below them is expected to manage with that money? If ayr choose to blow it all then more fool them ... but I would actually suggest the funds are paid back over time by deducting it from future prize money. Clubs who were entitled to more would also get enhancements to future payments.

It does just seem to be Scotland who are making such an almighty mess of this. Belgium have called early to be fair but that’s it as far as I’m aware. Yet in Scotland it’s Armageddon (heard that before haven’t we) if dundee don’t agree within hours. Nonsense

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 13:10

How many clubs will survive until August, September or whenever it is without money? How can they play games without enough players? They can’t sell season tickets for next season as clubs don’t know what league they’ll be in and as Roy McGregor said they don’t know what social distancing laws will still be in place which will restrict the amount of season ticket holders a club can have. It’s not as simple as finishing the season when it’s safe to do so.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 13:16

So you pay the money out. What’s so hard to understand about this. Clubs might still go to the wall but calling the league isn’t going to influence that one way or the other. At some point we will be able to play football again. Even if it’s in two years time what I’m saying is that you start by finishing this season and then bash straight onto the next one. Scrap the challenge cup and maybe the league cup and you can get it all done in the same timeframe


Also... in terms of lockdowns, Spain are set to allow non essential workers back to work on Monday. Personally I think that’s too soon but our government will be watching that closely. It may be that behind closed door games are back on the table.




Post Edited (Sun 12 Apr 13:20)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 13:25

Bayern Munich starting training again last week. Real sociedad have also just restarted training in Spain. Others to follow.
Rangers proposal made sense, pay money now and finish when safe, other leagues will likely do this, uefa and Fifa will do what they can to support this. Scotland as usual making a complete backside of it. Belgium only called out winners. Relegation still to be decided.
If uefa say different later on then fair enough.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 13:28

Non essential workers are allowed to work in this country now as long as you cannot work from home. You must adhere to social distancing laws however which makes football impossible.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 13:29

At the moment. Yes

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 13:46

Craig Anderson summarises the whole fiasco quite well.

https://twitter.com/craig_killie/status/1248911548929712129



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 14:02

A couple of interesting developments this morning. Sky have told the EPL they will not request a rebate if the season is voided and news that UEFA could be having a change of heart and are about to tell their members to null and void their seasons. I’m not sure what effect that would have on our league with regards to prize money tbh.


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-red-alert-fifa-bigwig-21853906
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: storminNorman  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 14:15

perfect if UEFA inform all member body's to immediately null and void this season we go straight into next with the status quo intact and start again,don't we?
ohh wait Celtic don't get 9 in a row,Dundee United stay in the championship (suits Dundee) Raith stay in league one and no team is relegated suits the teams in danger now.so all rosy aye right you can bet Celtic,Dundee United and a few others will do a massive u-turn and want the season completed or push through Fridays vote.
this could go on and on but at least if UEFA make that decision the footballing Governors here can just say stuff you its UEFA who made the call.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 14:54

To be honest, voiding the season makes more sense than what’s being proposed. It’s still unnecessary in my opinion though.

What I would like to see is European football to be scrapped next season (not sure international travel is going to be back anytime soon) and play the end of this season follows by next.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 14:57

Quote:

allparone, Sun 12 Apr 14:02

A couple of interesting developments this morning. Sky have told the EPL they will not request a rebate if the season is voided and news that UEFA could be having a change of heart and are about to tell their members to null and void their seasons. I’m not sure what effect that would have on our league with regards to prize money tbh.


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-red-alert-fifa-bigwig-21853906


The link just gives the opinion of a "UEFA bigwig." What does that even mean? The Record just filling a few columns with idle speculation, imo.

A " null and void" scenario is least likely, imo, and probably only Therangers would be enthusiastic about it.

Would SKY not be entitled to ask for its money back if this happened?



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Sun 12 Apr 15:30)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 15:16

Never understood the point about TV companies getting a rebate if the season is declared and void. Would sky sports subscribers be entitled to part of the their subscriptions backs then or advertisers part of their fees for showing commercials during games that didn't count?

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 15:17

Quote:

pars_andy, Sun 12 Apr 12:53

You start it whenever it’s safe to play football again. Obviously pay out the price money now but make adjustments when final positions are decided


All fine and well. You've kind of overlooked the fact that most of the players are out of contract next month.😂😂😂
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 15:20

I haven’t. When we’re able to play football again I’m assuming we will have a team of players to play. That’s a requirement surely irrespective of whether or not it’s the existing season we finish or the new season we start. As I’ve said previously, players used to move all the time throughout the season before Bosman happened. And we actually have a mid season transfer window every year so there’s no reason why we can’t play on with changed squads.





Post Edited (Sun 12 Apr 15:24)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 15:24

Nonsense that some teams would restart with a completely different squad of players.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 15:29

Nonsense that a team will be relegated when they’ve played a game less. It’s up to teams to keep as much of their squad as they see fit. Like I said, there was a time when we had no transfer windows and squads changed throughout the season.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 15:34

How will clubs be able to pay these players without any income? The money that the teams in league 1 and 2 are waiting on won’t last long. They can’t sell season tickets for next season until this one’s complete I’d assume. Forfar said they were only getting another £4K in prize money. That’ll not last long. If football isn’t started soon there won’t be many teams still afloat far less able to put a team on the park.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 15:41

Null and void is worse than the current proposal by far
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 15:56

Quote:

pars_andy, Sun 12 Apr 15:29

Nonsense that a team will be relegated when they’ve played a game less. It’s up to teams to keep as much of their squad as they see fit. Like I said, there was a time when we had no transfer windows and squads changed throughout the season.


My take on it FWIW.
In these unprecedented times, no outcome is going to please everyone.
Enough of the season has been played to take it as a pretty good indicator as to how the league's would eventually finish. The teams doing the most moaning (Hearts and Thistle) have been terrible all season and would, in all probability finished bottom of their respective leagues.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 16:01

"Nonsense that some teams would restart with a completely different squad of players"

it is, where is the sporting integrity in that? there is none!

anyway the latest from the SPFL

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52262428
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 16:02

I’d put money on Partick finishing above QOTS. We can get round all of the obstacles if there is a will. No reason why clubs can’t start selling season tickets now although I’m not sure who would buy them given that we have no idea when we’ll be able to kick off. This issue of course won’t be solved by calling the league.

I do actually prefer voiding the league to calling it. I certainly won’t be recognising the champions of any of the leagues if they call it now. I actually wouldn’t bother again with Scottish football in any form.

The rush to make a decision when people don’t even know when they’re going to be able to visit their families is astonishing and somewhat distasteful.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 16:06

Andy what if they call it in 5 weeks time. Would you recognise the champions then and continue to be bothered about Scottish football. I don't think anyone is expecting there not to be an asterisk against the name of champions in the record books.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 16:07

The answer to your question is ‘maybe’ depending on how things are at that point. I think it will be likely that ‘behind closed doors’ games may be an option by then. Probably June to allow for training.





Post Edited (Sun 12 Apr 16:10)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 16:10

SFA have told clubs there will be no football activity until at least the 14th of June and even that’s optimistic imo.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 16:11

June the 14th then.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 16:12

Quote:

pars_andy, Sun 12 Apr 16:02

I’d put money on Partick finishing above QOTS. We can get round all of the obstacles if there is a will. No reason why clubs can’t start selling season tickets now although I’m not sure who would buy them given that we have no idea when we’ll be able to kick off. This issue of course won’t be solved by calling the league.

I do actually prefer voiding the league to calling it. I certainly won’t be recognising the champions of any of the leagues if they call it now. I actually wouldn’t bother again with Scottish football in any form.

The rush to make a decision when people don’t even know when they’re going to be able to visit their families is astonishing and somewhat distasteful.



Sounds like you've got the dummy ready to spit out the pram. I'd pretty much bet that this will be the way most, if not all leagues will be decided. You going to fall out with world football😂
No football will be played in this country for a very long time.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: twin par  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 16:24

Playing behind closed doors,is absolute nonsense. If there are no crowds,how can you have a full blown football match,with 24 players and officials, in a group situation?

Post Edited (Sun 12 Apr 16:27)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 17:03

As we went into the lockdown, there was a spell where mass public gatherings were banned. I imagine this will be the same as we come out of the lockdown.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 17:14

pars_andy makes some really valid points but saying your done with football is a wee bit dramatic, no?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 17:20

To be fair I said that I was done with Scottish football. It was BigJPar that extrapolated it! And my love affair with Scottish football was hanging by a thread before this nonsense.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: storminNorman  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 17:50

sorry GG i cant really get what you mean by sky or for that matter bt asking for money to refunded to them,for what?
the bottom line being is they supplied a product you paid for and up to the point football stopped they fulfilled their part of the contract after they suspended all future payments until football returns.
so if footballing body's null and void the season they still supplied a product millions watched or took advantage of the product supplied so no argument really is there.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 18:05

Enough of the season has been played to get a fairly accurate view on how a season has gone ,for me divide points total by games played ,most points are champions ,least get relegated .
On Partick there were quite a few shouts for us to appoint McCall ,when we didn't and Partick did talk was they would get top 4 ,by Christmas ,once he gets his own players ,and uptil now still bottom ,like Hearts they have shown little to say they would not go down .

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 18:15

G.G. Sky saying they don't want any money back
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 18:50

Topic Originator: storminNorman like | nolike
Date: Sun 12 Apr 17:50

sorry GG i cant really get what you mean by sky or for that matter bt asking for money to refunded to them,for what?
the bottom line being is they supplied a product you paid for and up to the point football stopped they fulfilled their part of the contract after they suspended all future payments until football returns.
so if footballing body's null and void the season they still supplied a product millions watched or took advantage of the product supplied so no argument really is there.
————————-

There is if the games turned out to be meaningless!

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 18:55

I did read this morning that sky were not going to ask for a rebate if the season down south was voided. Nothing official though.

It’s a decent point about content they’ve already supplied but their contract is for a full season. How much have tv companies missed out on by the business end of the leagues not being played and televised?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 19:05

Quote:

storminNorman, Sun 12 Apr 17:50

sorry GG i cant really get what you mean by sky or for that matter bt asking for money to refunded to them,for what?
the bottom line being is they supplied a product you paid for and up to the point football stopped they fulfilled their part of the contract after they suspended all future payments until football returns.
so if footballing body's null and void the season they still supplied a product millions watched or took advantage of the product supplied so no argument really is there.


I think you misinterpreted my post, Norman. I wasn't suggesting SKY should ask for a refund, but legally, if the season is declared "null and void " then it's as if it never happened, so they'd be within their rights to ask for some ( or all) of their money back. Unlikely, of course and Buspass has posted above that they've stated that they won't. I'm sure they wouldn't want to be seen kicking Scottish football in the nether regions when it's on its knees.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 19:50

Just glad we're not top of the league!🤔
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: storminNorman  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 21:06

ok GG apologies if i misunderstood your post but pars andy since Sky have declined the return of any payment it knocks one of your theory s and arguments on the head.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 22:26

Yeah I know this. I was just pointing out why it was a potential issue. Much like GG Riva was

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Sun 12 Apr 22:59

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 06:57

I wouldn't like to post details of unsubstantiated allegations, but there are those who believe ICT's CEO, Scott Gardiner, may have had ulterior motives for registering a NO vote for his club, rather than an altruistic desire to save Partick from relegation - a relegation unlikely to come to pass in any case, as the SPFL had suggested that reconstruction would be discussed and proposals voted on, following on from a YES vote.

I'm not in any way defending the SPFL, as I think they've handled the whole thing extremely poorly, but the allegations of skullduggery on both sides, are quite plausible. It will be interesting to see what evidence Therangers are able to present to back up their claims. What I find extraordinary is that they have a representative on the SPFL board and he allegedly didn't raise any concerns as to the manner in which the voting process was hurriedly cobbled together,



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 07:25

I genuinely wish to share GG Riva's confidence that League Reconstruction will emerge from this embarrassing SPFL shambles.Certainly 14-14-14 would tick most boxes and Tom English has said "reliable sources" point to a change of mood among the biggest clubs.

We need to learn what Dundee's final vote is today and to hear their reasoning. I dismiss the famiar paranoia of some Celtic fans in questioning the Inverness CT motives.The Chairman came across very well in the intelligent articulate "Sportsound" discussion on Saturday afternoon.(I had expected a similar programme yesterday but it reverted to the padding of their familiar football waffle you would hear in the pub).

We need to learn why the Rangers' attempts to frame a motion to disburse £8m of funds was deemed incompetent,As wee eck asked,why was it not a secret ballot? Why were we being told the voting so far before 5pm and why did two major clubs make public pronouncements all week then vote in the opposite way? Why are we having such votes prematurely now anyway?Finally,as ordinary fans,we know nothing of rumours of cajoling,bullying,decisions behind closed doors and indeed threats.An Independent Enquiry would resolve that.

Was it really so difficult to count 42 votes?Intelligent kids could have been entrusted with the task.



Post Edited (Mon 13 Apr 07:26)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 07:46

England currently looking at using Wembley and another venue to have a behind closed door end of the season in June or July. Back to back televised games. Sounds great imo. No reason why our league can’t pick a couple of venues and charge a fee to stream the matches (assuming the tv companies aren’t interested)





Post Edited (Mon 13 Apr 07:50)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 08:21

Please correct me if I am wrong, were we not promised league reconstruction previously when allowing The Rangers to enter the league for the first time after the Glasgow Rangers went bust?

Seems every crisis this carrot is dangled only to be gently withdrawn when their goals are achieved.

DunfyDave
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 08:26

Yeah I’m sure it still requires a ridiculous majority from the top league. Simply not going to happen. We just keep revisiting old ground yet we keep bending over, keep applying the lube and keep inviting Doncaster to apply his sausage.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 08:52

Ann Budge,Hearts Chair,confirms, in "The Scotsman" ,that Hearts will push for League Reconstruction.

I wonder how many other big clubs are similarly on the road to Damascus?

Ann goes on to say that,as the SPFL dangled the carrot,the Board said that any chance of reaching agreement was very slim.

That may not be so true three days on.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 09:07

Nonsense. There’s zero need for Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen etc to vote for reconstruction. The absolute best you can hope for is a temporary reconstruction of one season to prevent teams being relegated.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 09:08

And I realise this will be an unpopular opinion but reconstruction is actually a bad idea. For the last 3 years we’ve been in a league where up until the last few games we have a chance of going up or being elevated. Most teams have something to play for and it is interesting until the last ball is kicked. That happens because the league is small and full of fairly evenly matched teams.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 09:22

I do disagree although I also think leagues of 14 will be as equally gash.

The quality of football in Scotland has been on a steady decline for years and "having something to play for" has done nothing to improve the calibre of the games we watch.

There's not a single league in Europe of any real standing that has less than 16 team leagues in them. Nobody else really struggles with "meaningless games". In fact the safety net of mid-table obscurity for a mediocre season rather than the threat of relegation may allow a few teams to take longer term strategies with player development rather than meeting the immediate objective of avoiding relegation (which in the top flight at least is most teams goals).

3 up/3 down also makes bouncing back a bit easier and reduces the pressure on clubs to spend money they dont have chasing promotion again. It also keeps the leagues fresh by bringing in new teams.

The sad reality though is that the whole of Scottish football is dependent on TV deals that come from 4 Glasgow and Edinburgh derbies and teams getting larger supports from two visits a season from those teams. Teams are always going to vote in their self interest so none of the current shambles is a surprise and no decent solution is going to come out of this.

The problems in Scottish football existed long before the CV surfaced but in times like this it just shows what a poor set up our game has.

Post Edited (Mon 13 Apr 09:23)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 09:50

"For the last 3 years we’ve been in a league where up until the last few games we have a chance of going up or being elevated"

Except (obviously) for whoever wins the Championship the chances of being promoted to the SPL are very low.

Other than Hamilton's rare success six years ago, the playoffs have only served to produce a team to lose to the SPL's second poorest side.

That aside, due to the inept voting procedures used we now have a ridiculous situation where Dundee effectively have the casting vote on the way forward.

The vote should be reorganised and repeated on a secret ballot system and no result announced until all papers are returned - and no members of the press or media should have access to anything until the result is made public.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 09:52

<<The problems in Scottish football existed long before the CV surfaced but in times like this it just shows what a poor set up our game has.>>


Looking at the SPFL payouts, you have to say there is something really wrong with the set-up here. For instance, why should the team that finishes bottom of the Premiership gets five times what we are likely to receive???

And if you are a club in the middle of League 2, why the hell would you bother for 50 grand...

Ladbrokes Premiership
1st – 13.40% – £3,350,000
2nd – 9.60% – £2,400,000
3rd – 8.25% – £2,062,500
4th – 7.25% – £1,812,500
5th – 6.75% – £1,687,500
6th – 6.25% – £1,562,500
7th – 5.75% – £1,437,500
8th – 5.50% – £1,375,000
9th – 5.25% – £1,312,500
10th -5.00% – £1,250,000
11th – 4.75% – £1,187,500
12th – 4.50% – £1,125,000

Ladbrokes Championship
1st – 2.25% – £562,500
2nd – 1.90% – £475,000
3rd – 1.60% – £400,000
4th – 1.30% – £325,000
5th – 1.00% – £250,000
6th – 0.90% – £225,000
7th – 0.85% – £212,500
8th – 0.80% – £200,000
9th – 0.75% – £187,500
10th – 0.70% – £175,000

Ladbrokes League 1
1st – 0.50% – £125,000
2nd – 0.43% – £107,500
3rd – 0.35% – £87,500
4th – 0.34% – £85,000
5th – 0.33% – £82,500
6th – 0.32% – £80,000
7th – 0.31% – £77,500
8th – 0.30% – £75,000
9th – 0.29% – £72,500
10th – 0.28% – £70,000

Ladbrokes League 2
1st – 0.27% – £67,500
2nd – 0.26% – £65,000
3rd – 0.25% – £62,500
4th – 0.24% – £60,000
5th – 0.23% – £57,500
6th – 0.22% – £55,000
7th – 0.21% – £52,500
8th – 0.20% – £50,000
9th – 0.19% – £47,500
10th – 0.18% – £45,000
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 09:59

Definitely one of the big problems OzPar!
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 10:05

Vetereneastender.... didn’t livi go up via the playoffs?

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 10:24

On "Sportsound", on Saturday Afternoon,the Forfar Ath Chairman detailed the trivial sum his club was waiting for.

It woukdn't have kept Scott Brown in after shave for more than a few days.

The Scottish Football Income distribution is inequitable.

It also makes a mockery of Celtic crying crocodile tears and wishing there were more of a challenge in Scotland.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 10:28

"There's not a single league in Europe of any real standing that has less than 16 team leagues in them"

Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary, Austria and Romania all have fewer than 16 teams. You could argue that they're not of any "real standing" but, if you want to go down that route, there are only really 4 leagues of note.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 10:47

And they’re all in much bigger countries comparative to Scotland

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 10:54

I'd personally like to see a 30 game league with everyone playing twice as it opens up the very small hope that an Aberdeen or Hibs get a decent side together, get some momentum and could make some sort of challenge.

It's still Scottish football though - still with Celtic and Rangers 2012 far bigger than anyone else. There's no magic formula.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 10:56

"And they’re all in much bigger countries comparative to Scotland"

Croatia's actually smaller. Slightly less of a footballing backwater than us these days though.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 10:58

Oz. If I was a fan of a premier league team I could argue that the huge majority of the tv money is generated by the top league and this is compensation for gate money lost for televised games. Not saying it's right but if you look at it like that you can justify it.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 11:01

But each club will be on 4 times per season when they play the old firm. How many time’s were we on the tele in the past year? Probably not that different in terms of losses especially since we have to deal with Friday night football

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 11:15

I genuinely take your point JTH123. In defence of the opposite viewpoint, I would say that the TV sponsors should offer the fans of provincial clubs a far more equitable fare broadcast-wise than they do presently.

When you think back to the 1990s, there was a popular programme covering highlights from all Scottish lower league games. Anyone remember its name and what channel?

Why is the SPFL satisfied with giving the TV rights to a company that essentially only wants to cover two teams?

Remember how when The Rangers became a thing, suddenly there was a new interest in covering games in the lower leagues? Well, let's be honest, only ONE game...

I fecking hate the fraudulence and insincerity.

:(
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: storminNorman  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 11:20

OzPar highlights the crazy way the SPFL distribute competition payments and it could be argued that both Rangers and Celtic deserve the largest slice as without them SKY and BT would have very little interest in the Scottish game.
we would end up a football back water with the odd game shoved into the football schedule on a blank Friday much like the northern Irish league.
on the other hand the distribution is unfair on a footballing issue as i don't believe
for one minute that we as football club are in less in stature as Motherwell,Killmarnock,St Mirren and even if i sound a bit elitist we are more than St,Johnstone,Hamilton and Ross County but the moneys distributed make it impossible for clubs like us Falkirk and a couple of others to ever to compete and if we do get promoted struggle.
ok Livingstone have bucked the trend but really are a club haemorrhaging cash and only the good will of directors allow them to continue but we know how these situations eventually pan out.
the other more importantly unfair distribution of cash in our game is the championship is the Friday night games,they costy clubs money and i'am almost certain championship clubs get no extra funds from that pot and it goes towards the parachute payments paid to the relegated club,so effectively if this is the case we as clubs are being penalised financially to give the club coming down an advantage over the rest. you could never make it the goings on in scottish football.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 11:23

Quote:

DA-go Par Adonis, Mon 13 Apr 10:28

"There's not a single league in Europe of any real standing that has less than 16 team leagues in them"

Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary, Austria and Romania all have fewer than 16 teams. You could argue that they're not of any "real standing" but, if you want to go down that route, there are only really 4 leagues of note.


Yeah none of them are what I would consider as having domestic leagues of any real quality. They are still capable of producing better players than us in some cases but most of them move abroad.

England, Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Belgium, Portugal, Turkey and the Netherlands all have better quality than that so it's more than 4 in terms of quality of domestic leagues although the big 4 leagues are obviously a bit ahead of the rest.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 11:24

On the finances point, the bottom 2 top flight side earns more in revenue than the bottom two leagues combined.

Post Edited (Mon 13 Apr 11:25)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 11:48

Londonparsfan...all of those countries have far bigger populations than Scotland. Portugal is closest but their population is still about twice the size.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 12:02

Quote:

londonparsfan, Mon 13 Apr 11:24

On the finances point, the bottom 2 top flight side earns more in revenue than the bottom two leagues combined.

Post Edited (Mon 13 Apr 11:25)


Compare this system with the NFL.

“Each NFL team receives an equal share of the league's "national revenue" -- primarily money from television deals, but also league-wide sponsorships, licensing and merchandise sales. The Packers, the only publicly owned franchise in major U.S. sports, reported Wednesday that they got $244 million, up from $222.6 million last year.”

My dog eats meat
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 12:17

Comparing Scottish football to the NFL is absolutely pointless.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 12:18

It's impressive that in the US, which is generally considered to be the champion of free enterprise, they distribute income in such an equitable manner. Doesn't the 'draft' of players graduating from college also favour the less successful teams by giving them first pick? Maybe the Yanks appreciate the benefits of having a competitive league rather than one that's so skewed in favour of the richest clubs.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 12:26

The same draft system applies in Aussie Rules. If you look at how many teams have won the title in the last 30 years compared to the Scottish Premiership you would be very quickly be convinced which system in preferable.

And yes, with appropriate commitment, a draft system could be introduced successfully into Scotland.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: d3monstrate  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 12:33

For all the problems the USA have with everything else, they know that more equal competitors make for better competition, and in turn, better viewing figures, more sponsors etc. This makes the "not winning", easier to take as the business side is not dependant how successful they are.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 12:44

I'm not watching any sport where there is no promotion or relegation, something the draft system would be a nonsense in.

Ditto franchises, and the ease in which it is done, same for stadium builds, most which the franchise owners get the franchise city to pay through local taxes- it's a licence to print money, with little down side.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 12:49

"Vetereneastender.... didn’t livi go up via the playoffs?"

Correct, apologies - a senior moment.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 13:01

I'm not in favour of reconstruction generally. I don't particularly like the fact that 4th place in a league of 10 gets a promotion play-off place, but aside from that I think what we have is OK. I don't think arguments about poorer standards being due to league format are valid - when Scotland were regularly qualifying for tournaments in the late 70s, 80s and 90s, our top league consisted of 10 or 12 clubs.

I'm particularly opposed to reconstruction at the moment. If a change is to be made, the decision should be taken based on it being the right thing to do on a long-term basis. Doing it as a fudge to find a way out of this situation is absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the phrase 'hard cases make bad law' comes to mind.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 13:18

Understand you're point Socks but it looks like one of these situations where some feel they have some leverage for a change and feel they need to use it.
Its just as well the nhs staff and carers haven't followed the French air traffic controllers model for similar tactics when the current situation arose. Unfortunately we all know that they'll get no more than a token gesture pay rise next time around though, despite the magic money tree multiplying into an entire forest.
I really do like the draft picks idea. If nothing else it would let some smaller clubs make some cash when players initial contracts were up.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 13:29

Quote:

pars_andy, Mon 13 Apr 11:48

Londonparsfan...all of those countries have far bigger populations than Scotland. Portugal is closest but their population is still about twice the size.


How well clubs are run and the underlying infrastructure that gets people playing the game and develops those capable of going further in the sport is far more important than how many people go to the games (if that's the point where population becomes in)

Scotland had a smaller population when most of these attendance records were hit:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_football_attendance_records

Even if grounds did have the same capacity now you're never going to see attendances like that again and its not because we are a small country.

Scotland's biggest successes in Europe and internationally (relatively speaking at least) generally came when the top flight had 18 teams. There's been a steady decrease in quality over the years as our populations got bigger so I dont think population is an overriding factor in how many teams should be in a league.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 13:32

To be fair to Socks point there was a bit of success in the 80s too for sides when the top flight was 10 teams.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 13:58

Trying to improve Scottish football is like polishing a turd.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 14:00

Londonparsfan.... our successes also came at a time when you could smoke and drink and still play at the top level. The game has changed but the Scottish lifestyle hasn’t unfortunately.

In other news, I see that Italy and Germany are taking steps to try and finish their seasons behind closed doors

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 14:20

There's a good argument that's more of an issue than the size of our population for our current lack of success but I don't think we should be basing the number of teams in our league set ups on that either 😉

We should however be looking to bring back alcohol sales at grounds and possibly having smoking areas for the smokers out there.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 14:21

Just read about the Bundesliga starting back up. I notice it’s just the Bundesliga and not the lower divisions. They will have to test everybody before every game something that is being called ludicrous in Germany as “we don’t have enough tests to test people who need it”. It’s also not 100% backed by all the Bundesliga clubs with one member saying starting football up soon sends completely the wrong message. Considering Germany are miles in front of us when it comes to testing I think we can forget about football starting here anytime soon, especially at our level.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 14:46

"Doing it as a fudge to find a way out of this situation is absolutely the wrong thing to do"

or doing it as a Budge more like to suit Hearts, that whole post from Socks though I agree with.

Dundee latest from the Evening Telegraph

"Tele Sport also believes Dundee won’t be saying anything publicly regarding their situation until the dust settles following a stormy few days.

Their strategy going forward, though, appears to be to get a motion passed by the clubs that would give a written guarantee regarding reconstruction for the 2020-21 season, whenever that kicks off.

The plan is believed to be for a 14-10-10-10 set-up that would see them stay in the Championship, with United and second-placed Inverness promoted.

Dundee’s thinking is that it would benefit their own team in the long-term and that it would win the support of the required number of SPFL members.

The problem of relegation from the top division would be solved as Hearts would stay up but the challenge will be persuading other Premiership sides to spread their income across an extra two clubs"

there is a proposal on the table, either vote yes and move on or no and put this proposal forward to vote on on its own. you cant have the final vote being made on effectively a different proposal to what the other 41 teams voted on.
the other divisions would also have to vote on too and just as unlikely to vote it through.



Post Edited (Mon 13 Apr 14:48)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 15:22

Why not relegate the bottom Premiership team and promote 3 from the Championship?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 16:00

Quote:

AdamAntsParsStripe, Sun 12 Apr 07:09

Seems ICT are one of the very few clubs who voted, not out of self interest, but for the integrity of the game.
Their chairman came accross on Sportsound as very principled.
Dundee really need to come out now and state their case given that they said they had voted but refused to resubmit their vote when it wasn't recieved by the SPFL.
The whole thing stinks.



https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5486624/rangers-ending-season-bill-leckie/

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 16:15

Londonpars, I completely agree with you, I'm a smoker.

How about branching out for those boring autumn games- a stall during mushie season?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 16:25

Even as a non smoker it seems strange we can't accommodate those that do.

All that seems to happen is people smoke where non smokers don't want them to (mainly toilets) which frequently causes arguments. I've actually seen the odd person say they've stopped going to games due to not being able to smoke although I suspect that might not be a huge number of people in grand scheme of things.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 17:04

Re: testing footballers.... it’s actually pretty easy to purchase private tests in the uk right now. They cost around £250. Id assume football teams would be sourcing them privately rather than obtaining from the nhs.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 17:08

Quote:

jake89, Mon 13 Apr 15:22

Why not relegate the bottom Premiership team and promote 3 from the Championship?


Why not have 4 down and 4 up. That would freshen it up a bit
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 17:10

I didn’t realise that was the case Andy. It would certainly mean clubs at our level would be priced out of starting if tests were a requirement. Clubs in the bigger leagues would be able to afford it however.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 17:13

Ignore... Wrong thread.
🤣




Post Edited (Mon 13 Apr 17:15)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 17:16

Quote:

londonparsfan, Mon 13 Apr 16:25

Even as a non smoker it seems strange we can't accommodate those that do.

All that seems to happen is people smoke where non smokers don't want them to (mainly toilets) which frequently causes arguments. I've actually seen the odd person say they've stopped going to games due to not being able to smoke although I suspect that might not be a huge number of people in grand scheme of things.


Even when my smoking habit was 40 a day I could still manage 90 mins without one to watch the football.
Besides which, having a designated smoking area would cost the club more money in insurance I'm betting.


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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 17:50

Don't get me wrong I don't get how folk can't go 90 mins either at a game without a smoke but when you're looking at how fans view experiences at football it matters to some people and I've seen a fair few arguments about people smoking where they shouldn't so it has a knock on effect on those that aren't smoking too.

Didn't know there was an insurance cost to smoking areas though so thanks for pointing that out!
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 17:51

Oh I also meant football in general when I said "we" so not just aimed at us (Pars) as that probably read.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 20:01

"It's impressive that in the US, which is generally considered to be the champion of free enterprise, they distribute income in such an equitable manner. Doesn't the 'draft' of players graduating from college also favour the less successful teams by giving them first pick? Maybe the Yanks appreciate the benefits of having a competitive league rather than one that's so skewed in favour of the richest clubs."

If you get a chance try and catch "Moneyball" on Netflix about MLB.

The big rich clubs like the Yankees can eventually lure away top players with obscene contracts.

That aside, the amount of cash in US Sports is on a different planet from us.

Comparisons with America are nonsensical.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 20:56

It was the principle of how the prize money is distributed and the operation of the draft system I was drawing a comparison with, not the amount of money in sport.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Mon 13 Apr 22:46

Quote:

widtink, Mon 13 Apr 17:16

Quote:

londonparsfan, Mon 13 Apr 16:25

Even as a non smoker it seems strange we can't accommodate those that do.

All that seems to happen is people smoke where non smokers don't want them to (mainly toilets) which frequently causes arguments. I've actually seen the odd person say they've stopped going to games due to not being able to smoke although I suspect that might not be a huge number of people in grand scheme of things.


Even when my smoking habit was 40 a day I could still manage 90 mins without one to watch the football.
Besides which, having a designated smoking area would cost the club more money in insurance I'm betting.


Not true at Dunfermline (NW stand) or indeed at any other ground.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 07:24

No decision from Dundee yet? How hard can it be? Thanks to the way it's been handled, they're going to upset some clubs, no matter how they vote and if they decide to abstain, they'll upset them all......

And how about Therangers? The SPFL have told them to put up or shut up. Surely they're not so stupid as to make allegations they cannot back up? Is the whistleblower their own man on the SPFL committee?

What a farce.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 07:50

Dundee,perhaps,inadvertently have become the kingmakers.

Did they vote "no"(Eric Drysdale sent in the vote at 1652) because they wanted to ensure League Reconstruction?That seems unlikely as they would lose the supports of Hearts and Dundee Utd.

Which other little club never submitted a vote? Why was it not a secret ballot?Why were the SPFL giving updates on voting before the deadline?Why was it so difficult to count 42votes?Thousands are counted accurately in a General Election.

Why were the repeated attempts by Rangers to submit a motion rejected as not being competent?Why did the SPFL Lawyer not assist?How can Rangers possibly be asked to reveal a whistleblower?

Why did two major clubs vote "Yes"after public assurances all week that they would vote "no"?

With talk of bullying,alleged pressure by "Peter" and "Neil",alleged threats,closed door discussions:there must be an Independent Enquiry.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 09:28

moving on...

a change of mind according to the Record

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dundee-set-say-yes-spfls-21860951

but the Sun saying its not done yet

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5489597/spfl-bosses-dundee-john-nelms-vital-vote/
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: KnebworthPar  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 10:20

Post from LondonPars Fan:


==I do disagree although I also think leagues of 14 will be as equally gash.

The quality of football in Scotland has been on a steady decline for years and "having something to play for" has done nothing to improve the calibre of the games we watch.

There's not a single league in Europe of any real standing that has less than 16 team leagues in them. Nobody else really struggles with "meaningless games". In fact the safety net of mid-table obscurity for a mediocre season rather than the threat of relegation may allow a few teams to take longer term strategies with player development rather than meeting the immediate objective of avoiding relegation (which in the top flight at least is most teams goals).

3 up/3 down also makes bouncing back a bit easier and reduces the pressure on clubs to spend money they dont have chasing promotion again. It also keeps the leagues fresh by bringing in new teams.

The sad reality though is that the whole of Scottish football is dependent on TV deals that come from 4 Glasgow and Edinburgh derbies and teams getting larger supports from two visits a season from those teams. Teams are always going to vote in their self interest so none of the current shambles is a surprise and no decent solution is going to come out of this.

The problems in Scottish football existed long before the CV surfaced but in times like this it just shows what a poor set up our game has.==


Single most sensible post I think I've ever read on this forum.



Post Edited (Tue 14 Apr 10:25)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 11:01

If Dundee are now voting Yes,the clubs will get their desperately needed funding.

That does not address the nightmare that Hearts,Partick Th and Stranraer are unfairly relegated.

Nor the fact Falkirk and Inverness and Edinburgh City miss out on promotion.

The answer is League Reconstruction with three Divisions of 14.

Certain clubs will not vote for it as "it means two more mouths to feed".Self interest remains even in a pandemic.

More revenue is required to compensate the smaller Premiership clubs.That can be achieved with strong imaginative leadership by the SPFL.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 11:27

If the vote is yes, I hope it applies to all leagues not just the bottom 3. Hearts and Rovers fans should more than make up for the loss of Dundee Utd and Thistle.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: The Toun Clock  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 12:08

Hearts will always bring more than Dundee Utd, and if they're playing well they might even get the North East stand. Raith should bring more fans than Thistle. The only recent time I can think of Thistle bringing good numbers was when they were chasing the league in 2013.



Post Edited (Tue 14 Apr 12:22)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: RossF  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 13:13

At the risk of sounding bitter, I would take great pleasure in seeing Partick getting relegated (as unfair as it is). I’ll never forget the season we went into admin and relegated to league one, their fans ran onto the pitch and straight to our fans trying to goad us. One in particular had a baby on a sling still giving the ‘come on’ gesture to us. Couldn’t believe it!

I have a feeling reconstruction will occur though. That could be one of the reasons why he held off voting for so long?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 13:15

Quote:

KnebworthPar, Tue 14 Apr 10:20

Post from LondonPars Fan:


==I do disagree although I also think leagues of 14 will be as equally gash.

The quality of football in Scotland has been on a steady decline for years and "having something to play for" has done nothing to improve the calibre of the games we watch.

There's not a single league in Europe of any real standing that has less than 16 team leagues in them. Nobody else really struggles with "meaningless games". In fact the safety net of mid-table obscurity for a mediocre season rather than the threat of relegation may allow a few teams to take longer term strategies with player development rather than meeting the immediate objective of avoiding relegation (which in the top flight at least is most teams goals).

3 up/3 down also makes bouncing back a bit easier and reduces the pressure on clubs to spend money they dont have chasing promotion again. It also keeps the leagues fresh by bringing in new teams.

The sad reality though is that the whole of Scottish football is dependent on TV deals that come from 4 Glasgow and Edinburgh derbies and teams getting larger supports from two visits a season from those teams. Teams are always going to vote in their self interest so none of the current shambles is a surprise and no decent solution is going to come out of this.

The problems in Scottish football existed long before the CV surfaced but in times like this it just shows what a poor set up our game has.==


Single most sensible post I think I've ever read on this forum.


Thanks KP!
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 15:25

Partick Thistle say they have received legal advice that Dundee's retracted vote "must stand", meaning the SPFL's resolution on ending the lower-league season fails.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 15:30

Dundee allegedly will be gifted a glamour friendly ,maybe not on these shores by a very happy chairman .

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 16:01

The Partick Thistle Board states they took Legal Opinion from Senior and Junior Counsel.

That means a QC and an Advocate.

This has just got interesting........
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 16:28

"Partick Thistle say they have received legal advice that Dundee's retracted vote "must stand", meaning the SPFL's resolution on ending the lower-league season fails."

The SPFL claimed the vote had not been received, so how could it have been retracted ?

Also the rules (apparently) allow 28 days for the vote to be cast.

The whole procedure has been amateurishly conducted from the outset.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 16:51

Waiting for the reaction when dundee vote yes 😅😅
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 17:04

Gerry Britten is a legal beagle and on Partick board?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 17:22

Dundee voted no. They've openly admitted this. They are on record saying they voted no. Why are they now being invited to discuss league reconstruction? Can we change our vote? Suggest we say no and then vote yes after we get more of a say on matters that affect the whole league? Doncaster has to go. This is complete and utter nonsense.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 17:37

"As we made clear in our statement on Friday afternoon, it is a time for integrity and impartiality within Scottish football. Our view on that has not changed"

as they voted no then saw an opportunity for their own benefit and took it....

"Over the past few days, we have entered into various positive discussions with reconstruction at the forefront of these"

ill say again "there is a proposal on the table, either vote yes and move on or no and put this proposal forward to vote on on its own. you cant have the final vote being made on effectively a different proposal to what the other 41 teams voted on"

"Our supporters should know that we are, as always, looking out for the best interests of both Dundee Football Club and Scottish football as a whole"

one part is correct there, and it aint "Scottish football as a whole", embarrassing trying to convince people with that!
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: RossF  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 17:44

A snippet of the terms and conditions was shown on social media stating you cannot back out on a yes vote but can on a no vote. It sounds like this clause has been input to plead with a team to back out of the SPL thought it may be possible to get the vote through.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 17:55

Dundee are now a classic example of the tail wagging the dog. They can withhold their vote and use it to extract whatever concessions they want from the rest of the SPFL.

Any form of reconstruction will, of necessity, have to see them parachuted into the top flight, me thinks.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: ft media  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 19:41

The SPFL/Doncaster/Dundee should allow a Forensic I.T. Analyst to check their systems and allow anything regarding the situation into the Public domain.

100% Doncaster would be walking in the morning!
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 20:49

I can smell schoit
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 14 Apr 22:14

Dundee being offered a bribe in form of friendlies against Premiership teams. This is utter BS. Get Doncaster out right now.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 06:46

Here is Partick's statement - apologies if it's already been posted:-

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/partick-thistle-fc-board-update-15th-april-2020/

I read on another forum that Neil Doncaster is on a salary of £388,000 a year.

Really? WOW! If true.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: pars_andy  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 09:02

If the story about Dundee being offered ‘glamour friendlies’ is true then I don’t believe I need to say any more.

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 09:12

Quote:

pars_andy, Wed 15 Apr 09:02

If the story about Dundee being offered ‘glamour friendlies’ is true then I don’t believe I need to say any more.


I’ve seen this a few times as well but dismissed it as a wind up. How can a friendly between two Scottish sides be described as a “glamour friendly?”
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 09:28

Good Morning GG - are the SPFL still standing by their claim that Dundee's vote was not received on Friday ?

If that is the case, how can Partick Thistle assert that DFC's vote must be included along with the other 41 ?

These respective positions are irreconcilable.

The SPFL need to come out and clarify the precise situation without delay.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 09:50

Quote G.G.

I read on another forum that Neil Doncaster is on a salary of £388,000 a year.

Really? WOW! If true.

Apparently trousered £91k performance bonus as well ??
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 10:32

Dundee's vote was seen by other clubs, dated and signed and they claim they voted at 4.52pm that day.
Should it go to court, they will have to back this up or own up to not sending the vote.
Sounds to me like Skullduggery by people in the SPFL who, knowing this vote killed off their plan to end the season in the 3 leagues, didn't like what they saw and told Dundee to go underground till they found a way out of this.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 11:13

I'm sure there is a legal acceptance to "voiding commitments" made under exceptional circumstances and/or when new information comes to hand.

Additionally the SFA have not as yet declared the vote final but have stated "they are awaiting one final vote".

This carries some precedent.

DunfyDave
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 12:00

"Dundee's vote was seen by other clubs, dated and signed and they claim they voted at 4.52pm that day.
Should it go to court, they will have to back this up or own up to not sending the vote."

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong please.

The position of DFC was that the vote had been sent, and that of the SPFL was (and presumably still is) that it had not been received.

That is the crux of the impasse.

To my thinking, the vote is not valid until received and accepted by the SPFL.

Doesn't matter who has seen it beforehand IMO.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 12:49

Quote:

veteraneastender, Wed 15 Apr 12:00

"Dundee's vote was seen by other clubs, dated and signed and they claim they voted at 4.52pm that day.
Should it go to court, they will have to back this up or own up to not sending the vote."

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong please.

The position of DFC was that the vote had been sent, and that of the SPFL was (and presumably still is) that it had not been received.

That is the crux of the impasse.

To my thinking, the vote is not valid until received and accepted by the SPFL.

Doesn't matter who has seen it beforehand IMO.


This is true but it's also true the SPFL have opened themselves up to corruption by releasing the results of the vote minus one team.
This was shameful and unethical so to me, in a court of law, this could see the vote voided even if Dundee change their mind and vote yes.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 13:43

Dundee have confirmed they voted no, spfl say it was not received. Dundee changed their mind upon seeing results as other spfl clubs appeared to have changed their minds prior.
I am sure once an investigation is started independent or police the sent email will be located. The longer that takes the easier it is for Dundee and spfl to get rid of the evidence.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 13:52

https://dundeefc.co.uk/news/club-statement-26/

yes or no then, don't worry just take your time, no rush....talk about integrity and come up with that, give me a break.



Post Edited (Wed 15 Apr 13:53)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Kaiser Chief  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 14:11

Not sure if this has already been posted from The Herald last Sunday. If not, it might answer some questions.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18375585.spfl-chairman-reveals-championship-club-asked-resolution-vote-not-considered/
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 14:16

Leaving aside whether the Dundee vote was sent and received or not: the Legal Counsel from a QC and an Advocate reads:- The information dispensed to clubs and the process utilised in putting forward the resolution could potentially be held to be a breach of the duty by the SPFL to provide sufficient information to member clubs to allow them to make a properly informed decision in relation to the resolution.

In particular, the SPFL did not explain to member clubs alternative means by which payments could be made, other than by requiring the immediate termination of the current League Season.

It is remarkable how different this Joint Opinion from Senior and Junior Counsel is from the Opinion of the Lawyer advising the SPFL, the man Rangers feel should be suspended.

If this ends up in the Court Of Session; I know who my money is on.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Kaiser Chief  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 14:23

Did you read the Herald article Sliema?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 14:28

QC's on behalf of Partick find things that could be in Partick's favour, I know utterly remarkable.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 15:11

"If this ends up in the Court Of Session; I know who my money is on."

Who, and why ?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 15:33

Yes I bought "The Herald On Sunday".Thank you.

I very much doubt that Senior and Junior Counsel are wrong.

Three weeks ago Ann Budge was very confident having taken Legal Opinion too.

We,as ordinary football fans,do not know who is telling the truth.

What I do know is that the administration of the Scottish Game is an embarrassment.

We all know that Scottish Football needs League Reconstruction and more equitable income distribution.Wouldn't it be wonderful if either emerged from this?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 15:48

"I very much doubt that Senior and Junior Counsel are wrong."

Except when one of their own advises the SPFL board ?

"The SPFL board spent around an hour discussing in great detail the resolution requisitioned by Rangers. Only then did the board, based on clear and unequivocal advice from a QC, determine that the resolution was not effective.

"The Rangers director on the board confirmed that he was content with the time given over to that discussion. He was also offered the opportunity of the SPFL’s legal counsel Rod McKenzie working with Rangers’ Company Secretary on a resolution that might be effective."
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 15:49

We all know that Scottish Football needs League Reconstruction and more equitable income distribution.Wouldn't it be wonderful if either emerged from this?

We all hoped that in 2012 when Rangers died. Instead we got heaven and earth moving to preserve the status quo.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 16:03

Quote:

Sliema Par, Wed 15 Apr 15:33

Yes I bought "The Herald On Sunday".Thank you.

I very much doubt that Senior and Junior Counsel are wrong.

Three weeks ago Ann Budge was very confident having taken Legal Opinion too.

We,as ordinary football fans,do not know who is telling the truth.

What I do know is that the administration of the Scottish Game is an embarrassment.

We all know that Scottish Football needs League Reconstruction and more equitable income distribution.Wouldn't it be wonderful if either emerged from this?


Sorry, Sliema, but you’ll find that in court 50% of Counsel are held to be wrong.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 16:14

Yep. And they're all "very confident" beforehand.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 16:41

Bandy: Sadly what you are saying is only too true.

Malcolm Canmore: what is your source for the figure of 50%, please?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 16:56

"Malcolm Canmore: what is your source for the figure of 50%, please?"

One is right, the other is wrong ?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 17:19

With Germany and other European countries considering televised closed doors matches from late May, will that influence UEFA when they meet?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Alf  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 17:32

The Courier claiming Dundee have now voted Yes
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 17:36

Quote :Topic Originator: Alf like | nolike
Date: Wed 15 Apr 17:32

The Courier claiming Dundee have now voted Yes


The smell of shoit getting stronger
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 17:42

Daily record now reporting Dundee have submitted a yes vote bringing a conclusion to the championship, league 1 & 2 seasons. They say the Premiership are likely to follow suit.

I thought they were all bound by the same vote? Are the premiership different?


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dundee-vote-yes-ending-lower-21864062

Post Edited (Wed 15 Apr 17:43)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 18:51

Dundee :-

the City of 4 J's
Jute, Jam, Journalism and Jackassery
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Wed 15 Apr 18:54

Quote:

veteraneastender, Wed 15 Apr 16:56

"Malcolm Canmore: what is your source for the figure of 50%, please?"

One is right, the other is wrong ?


Very simple, Sliema. In court, Counsel for X argues one thing and Counsel for Y puts the contra argument. The Court finds in favour of one, who is right, and against the other, who is wrong.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: david9640  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 01:43

It's a far too simple to say "50% of counsel are wrong".

A case is decided both on the basis of the law and the events. It's perfectly possible for both counsel to have similar interpretations of the law, but not of the events/facts. Likewise, it's possible to agree on the events/facts, but disagree with the interpretation of the law.

Further, it's possible for some judges in a case to give a 'dissenting judgment', agreeing with the party that lost the case - then for that judgment to be vindicated further down the line with a decision of a higher court. Often legal academics quote dissenting judgments to discuss or critique possible developments of the law.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 06:04

How can you say on the one hand, the league campaign was far enough through to award the winners trophy but not far enough through to equally award last place?

If Dundee United are correctly awarded the championship and promotion, then hearts by the same token must be awarded last place and relegation.

Anything other than that is a joke

Edited to say that, while it's a shame play offs etc will be cancelled (which potentially impact lots of clubs including us), we have to remember we can't play these games. So really, the top half of all the leagues where play offs are normal are the real victims in all of this

Post Edited (Thu 16 Apr 06:08)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 06:49

I have the greatest admiration for the Falkirk FC Chairman whose club must be hurting badly.His comments were remarkably kind in the circumstances.

He was interviewed on Radio Forth.

Of course if there were League Reconstruction.......
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 07:32

Falkirk will be in the Championship next season. Whatever he said, that's why it was easy to be magnanimous.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 08:26

You have no trust in the SPFL consultation on League Reconstruction then.

I suggest you listen to his comments.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 08:55

Remember when we got relegated on the grounds of "sporting integrity" when a certain club ceased trading? Is the suggestion that the SPFL has no sporting integrity anymore? Get Hearts down. If Celtic are Champions on the basis of average points then surely the same is true of the bottom side?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 09:20

"You have no trust in the SPFL consultation on League Reconstruction then."

So how do you envisage the four divisions next season - the Championship in particular ?

If the SPL is to be 2 more clubs then (presumably) Hearts stay up, ICT join Dundee United - that saves Partick Thistle, and leaves a place for Falkirk to be promoted with Raith Rovers ?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 09:24

Quote:

"Malcolm Canmore: what is your source for the figure of 50%, please?"

One is right, the other is wrong ?

Very simple, Sliema. In court, Counsel for X argues one thing and Counsel for Y puts the contra argument. The Court finds in favour of one, who is right, and against the other, who is wrong.


There are many legal disputes which do not come to court, where both parties seek counsel's opinion.

If the opinions concur, then it could be argued that both QC's got it "right", a hit rate of 100%.

To imply based on court judgments that counsel's opinions are no better than coin-tossing is simply wrong

_________________

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Post Edited (Thu 16 Apr 09:27)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 09:24

On DAFC net there is an article on 14-14-14 League Reconstruction.

My own personal view is that the SPFL promise to consult on League Reconstruction has as much validity as Neville Chamberlain waving a piece of paper and announcing "Peace In Our Time.".

We will know soon.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 09:39

Isn't it the case that both Celtic and Rangers have to agree to reconstruction for it to happen or is that just to the Premiership?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 09:43

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 16 Apr 09:39

Isn't it the case that both Celtic and Rangers have to agree to reconstruction for it to happen or is that just to the Premiership?


They can agree on something and others vote it down. They could disagree and it still be voted through.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 09:45

we knew last night what is happening and who is doing it!! we just didn't know a timescale which according to the Sun is the end of May.

11-1 vote in the Premier, still 75% in the Championship and league 1 and 2 whether its then individually or combined for those 2.
Budge still talking about a temporary change for a couple of seasons, shes got even less change of getting the votes needed if that's her plan.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 10:30

<<Budge still talking about a temporary change for a couple of seasons, shes got even less change of getting the votes needed if that's her plan.>>


The word "temporary" should not be found in any restructuring proposal.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: JimMcDAFC  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 11:21

Surely if Hearts are relegated the 3 teams going up to the premier league would be dunde e untd, Inverness and surprise surprise dunde e if they change to 3 league's of 14. Has this been promised to dunde e for there vote?.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 11:37

Quote:

JimMcDAFC, Thu 16 Apr 11:21

Surely if Hearts are relegated the 3 teams going up to the premier league would be dunde e untd, Inverness and surprise surprise dunde e if they change to 3 league's of 14. Has this been promised to dunde e for there vote?.


I'd agree with that approach.

But the reconstruction shouldn't be temporary. It sounds like the Jambo plan is a reconstruction for a season to save them from relegation.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: The Roy Barry Fan Club  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 11:41

This is the best chance for league reconstruction for many years.

I agree with Oz that it would be a major disappointment if the word temporary was used in any context.

The crucial votes will be in the premiership where 11-1 is required. I dont see a problem elsewhere.

With Hearts facing relegation this will concentrate minds. But also there are increased TV monies coming from Sky which should compensate the mid-table clubs for a slight dilution in TV monies. So all down to the Kilmarnocks and St Johnstones of this world.

Hopefully a proposal such as 14-10-10-10 emerges which will save not only Hearts, but also Partick and Stranraer from relegation, as well as seeing Falkirk promoted into the Championshp, and Kelty Hearts and Brora being moved into League 2.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 11:45

Quote:

Stanza, Thu 16 Apr 09:24

Quote:

"Malcolm Canmore: what is your source for the figure of 50%, please?"

One is right, the other is wrong ?

Very simple, Sliema. In court, Counsel for X argues one thing and Counsel for Y puts the contra argument. The Court finds in favour of one, who is right, and against the other, who is wrong.


There are many legal disputes which do not come to court, where both parties seek counsel's opinion.

If the opinions concur, then it could be argued that both QC's got it "right", a hit rate of 100%.

To imply based on court judgments that counsel's opinions are no better than coin-tossing is simply wrong


You misunderstand the context. Sliema said that he doubted very much that Senior and Junior Counsel had got it wrong. We all knew, however, that the SPFL had obtained Counsel’s opinion that they were proceeding properly and correctly. So, it follows that, as in court, somebody’s opinion is flawed.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 11:46

nearly 4 years ago in an interview with BBC

"Hearts owner Ann Budge believes there are twice the ideal number of senior clubs in Scotland.

Budge, who recently joined the Scottish Professional Football League's board, said: "I think 42 senior clubs is too many for Scotland.

"You're looking at about half that number.

"We're not throwing people to the dogs and saying you don't matter. We should be saying this is what will work better for you, what fits your profile."

and now potentially 44 clubs is the best thing for the game in this country
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 12:15

Me and my mate had this discussion last night.

Instead of 4 leagues with 44 teams in total (14-10-10), you have 11 leagues of 4 teams.

Everyone plays a 6 game mini-season and you play 6 of them in a calendar year. Top and bottom sides relegated. So you could start August in tier 7 and be in the top league the following year.

Means the Celtic/Sevco derby gets played 12 times a year in the league alone. Obviously if one of them finishes bottom of tier 1 at any time, we reconstruct.

££££

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 12:16

The loweR League clubs are fine, we keep on having this conversation, but there aren't too many clubs.

They tend not to liquidate, tend not to go into administration, so what's the problem?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 12:39

Quote:

OzPar, Thu 16 Apr 10:30

<<Budge still talking about a temporary change for a couple of seasons, shes got even less change of getting the votes needed if that's her plan.>>


The word "temporary" should not be found in any restructuring proposal.


You just know it will be though. One season to save Hearts and back to normal the following year.

Either that or a 14 team league with 1 team down every year.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 12:47

The lower league teams get an absolute pittance. I'll leave it to someone else to provide figures but I'd bet a team finishing mid table in the Premiership gets more than all of league 2 combined.

Nothing should be permanent but "temporary" seems daft.

I'd still be in favour of 18 team league with 34 games. Fewer games but having fewer chances to see big rivals should boost crowds and make things more interesting.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 12:53

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 16 Apr 09:20

"You have no trust in the SPFL consultation on League Reconstruction then."

So how do you envisage the four divisions next season - the Championship in particular ?

If the SPL is to be 2 more clubs then (presumably) Hearts stay up, ICT join Dundee United - that saves Partick Thistle, and leaves a place for Falkirk to be promoted with Raith Rovers ?


So I've been saying, ad nauseam, to anyone who would listen.....☺



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 12:54

I still don't think reconstruction is appropriate at the moment. It seems like blatant opportunism to even consider this at the moment and it's unlikely that something rushed through in expedience is going to have any long-term benefit.

I'd rather just relegate Hearts and Partick Thistle.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 13:01

The management of Hearts from the board down for the last couple of years has been shambolic. Relegation would have been due punishment for this. League reconstruction is just a way of getting them off the hook. The same could probably be said of Partick Thistle.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 13:19

Quote:

jake89, Thu 16 Apr 12:47

The lower league teams get an absolute pittance. I'll leave it to someone else to provide figures but I'd bet a team finishing mid table in the Premiership gets more than all of league 2 combined.

^^^^^ You are onto something Jake. The entire premiership and the top 3 places in the Championship receive a disproportionate share of the funding compared to 4th place Championship and below.

DunfyDave
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 13:33

What is the rush for reconstruction? What problems are there with the system we're in? Any reconstruction now will be motivated by one thing, teams not wanting to be relegated. That can't be a good thing.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 14:36

If it meant the end of playing clubs at least four times a season I'd welcome it.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 15:00

Quote:

Grant, Thu 16 Apr 13:33

What is the rush for reconstruction? What problems are there with the system we're in? Any reconstruction now will be motivated by one thing, teams not wanting to be relegated. That can't be a good thing.


I'm sure you know the answer to that my left-handed, right footer. It's purely and simply to ensure Hearts stay in the Premiership*. Last time something similar happened, Aberdeen finished bottom and - hey presto - the top flight was expanded to 12 clubs.
(*Partick staying in the Championship will be regarded as an added bonus.)

IIRC, that only lasted one season, as we were one of 3 teams relegated the following season, with only one coming up.... I wonder if history might repeat itself.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 15:02

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 16 Apr 14:36

If it meant the end of playing clubs at least four times a season I'd welcome it.


I smpathise, eck, but we both know there's no chance of that. Scottish football needs at least 4 Glasgow derbys per season - or so we're telt.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 15:17

What is it that's fundamentally so bad about playing each team four times each season? People moan about it all the time but I've never heard a good reasoning as to why it's such a terrible thing.

I'm sure I'm in a minority, but I'll say it anyway. Our current league structure is good, and shouldn't be changed.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 15:32

I think the expression is 'less is more'. For example, a derby game is devalued in my opinion when they happen four times a season rather than twice. I'd much rather see more teams with different players and different styles.

It would be bad enough if league games were scheduled on a strict rotational basis and you only saw each team every 9 weeks but the way they were scheduled this season you could see some teams 5 weeks later ad others 12 weeks later.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 16:28

Quote:

Socks, Thu 16 Apr 15:17
.

I'm sure I'm in a minority, but I'll say it anyway. Our current league structure is good, and shouldn't be changed.


Nope, I fully agree.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 16:59

it is better than what is being proposed so far by some distance.

Meanwhile, Partick wont pursue any further action on the vote

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/partick-thistle-fc-board-update-16th-april-2020/
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 17:00

BBC Scotland reporting Partick Thistle will not take Legal Action against the SPFL decision.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 17:00

Grant wrote:

>
Quote:

Socks, Thu 16 Apr 15:17
> .
>
> I'm sure I'm in a minority, but I'll say it anyway. Our current
> league structure is good, and shouldn't be changed.

>
> Nope, I fully agree.

Absolutely, can imagine nothing worse from a supporters view than your team stuck mid-table from February with meaningless games. The Championship quality might not be great but there’s plenty of ups and downs and you’re playing important games week in week out that actually have significance right to the very end. If anything the promotion play off structure needs altered to resemble the relegation end of the table.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 17:14

Is Dundee going up dependent on Hearts coming down? Not convinced that's gonna happen...
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 17:19

Quote:

Grant, Thu 16 Apr 16:28

Quote:

Socks, Thu 16 Apr 15:17
.

I'm sure I'm in a minority, but I'll say it anyway. Our current league structure is good, and shouldn't be changed.


Nope, I fully agree.


Me too
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 17:21

"BBC Scotland reporting Partick Thistle will not take Legal Action against the SPFL decision."

Their Senior and Junior counsel have changed their legal opinion ?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 17:27

Extending the size of a league doesn't necessarily mean 'meaningless games'. You just adjust the number of teams who can qualify for the play-offs or be relegated. The English leagues below the Premiership have 24 teams in each of them.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 17:28

veteraneastender wrote:

> "BBC Scotland reporting Partick Thistle will not take Legal
> Action against the SPFL decision."
>
> Their Senior and Junior counsel have changed their legal
> opinion ?

Have they had their card marked that restructuring will safeguard their Championship status ?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 17:33

"So I've been saying, ad nauseam, to anyone who would listen.....☺"

You're a prophet in your land GG.

Like you, I suspect that weeping and nashing of teeth at Tynecastle, Caledonian Stadium, Firhill and new Brockville will not come to pass.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 17:45

I would imagine that Partick Th had two considerations.

1) The sheer cost of going to the Court Of Session.b) The League Reconstruction Lifeboat.

Justice in the UK is open to everyone as is staying at the Ritz.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 18:39

Thistle aren't going to court and Falkirk are accepting of the situation.

That's very good of them. You'd think that the owner of the SPFL's bottom club was in charge of investigating league reconstruction.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 18:48

Quote :-

Topic Originator: veteraneastender like | nolike Like: 1
Date: Thu 16 Apr 17:33

"So I've been saying, ad nauseam, to anyone who would listen.....☺"

You're a prophet in your land GG.

He's a corrie duker Vee ...descendent fae Auld Nick :)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 20:06

Hearts will NOT be relegated.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Thu 16 Apr 20:41

Playing a team four times in a season gets a bit monotonous and dull, it’s worse when you end up drawing a club from the same division in the cup, it’s proven by all the groans on this forum when we draw someone from the same league.

Positive spin you could put on it is that it’s like a game of chess, play each other that many times you should be adapting to styles which makes each game more competitive, different and appealing but for me I’m clutching at straws.

Post Edited (Thu 16 Apr 21:52)
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 07:57

"You'd think that the owner of the SPFL's bottom club was in charge of investigating league reconstruction."

I didn't think Brechin City had any say in this?
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 09:13

My bad, the Premier League's bottom club.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 09:14

Quote:

Bandy, Thu 16 Apr 17:14

Is Dundee going up dependent on Hearts coming down? Not convinced that's gonna happen...


Dundee aren't going anywhere. Only team that may get promoted from our league if 14 teams is decided will be ICT.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: M-PAR  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 10:16

Quote:

elvis_lives, Fri 17 Apr 09:14

Quote:

Bandy, Thu 16 Apr 17:14

Is Dundee going up dependent on Hearts coming down? Not convinced that's gonna happen...


Dundee aren't going anywhere. Only team that may get promoted from our league if 14 teams is decided will be ICT.


There could be an argument that hearts should still be relegated and use the example that we were still relegated when rangers went into liquidation, bit of a long shot though.

COYP!
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: vasco  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 10:51

If the Pars were 12th in the Premiership just now there would be no talk of league reconstruction.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 11:08

Quote:

vasco, Fri 17 Apr 10:51

If the Pars were 12th in the Premiership just now there would be no talk of league reconstruction.


100% correct.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 20:11

They think it's all over - but it might not be. Therangers are still bumping their gums about integrity and have still to reveal the damning evidence they were given by a whistleblower.....

If that fails, is Neil Doncaster's job safe and secure?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: DunPar  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 20:27

3 leagues of 14 play each other twice. 26 games. 2 up two down.
Split leagues into sevens. Play each other twice. 12 more games. 2 up 2 down.
38 games a season. Job done. Sorted.

Right. Corona virus. ............
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 20:39

Two leagues of 21.. play each other twice.. 4 up 4 down.. NO silly split ..no playoffs.. clubs succeed or fail on merit ..40 games simples
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 21:14

Would be awful.
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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 21:17

I see Anne Budge is quoted in the Edinburgh Evening News as saying that no league titles be awarded and no relegation (surprise, surprise) as the only fair way to wrap up this season.

I'm sure the Sellick and the Arabs will be over the moon ..... 😃



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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 22:16

SPFL Reconstruction taskforce
Club Member
Airdrieonians Paul Hetherington
Ayr United Lachlan Cameron
Cove Rangers John Sheran
Dundee John Nelms
Edinburgh City Jim Brown
Falkirk Gary Deans
Greenock Morton David Mackinnon
Hamilton Academical Les Gray (joint chair)
Heart of Midlothian Ann Budge (joint chair)
Hibernian Leeann Dempster
Partick Thistle Jacqui Low
Queen's Park Gerry Crawley
Raith Rovers Bill Stark
Highland League Rod Houston
Lowland League George Fraser

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 Re: Clubs to vote on proposal
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Fri 17 Apr 22:56