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 BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 14:17

This began at 2pm..

Brian McLauchlin has explained that a 9-3 not a 11-1 vote is required by the Premiership to facilitate League Reconstruction, where no change to the financial model was required.



Post Edited (Sat 18 Apr 14:27)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 16:06

On reading the rules and articles of association, I think that's largely correct but it's more complicated than you're making out. To satisfy the criteria needed to pass it with a 75% vote, I think the following are needed:

Number of league clubs remaining at 42
Prize money distribution by final position remaining unchanged

Expanding the top division to 14 on this basis does not seem especially practical because it means that the prize money for clubs finishing in the bottom two positions falls off a cliff, compared to finishing 12th. Clubs who might reasonably expect to be in the bottom half of the league can't really plan when the minimum anount of prize money drops by half from what it is just now - the 13th ranked club gets exactly half the prize money that the 12th ranked club gets.

Also, the league pays out prize money in installments over the season with these based on the amount for bottom place, and at the end of the season it's topped up based on actual finishing position. Making a change in this way would mean that payments made during the season would be reduced by more than half, and that surely has to cause cashflow issues.

Doesn't seem workable to me and I can't see how clubs in the bottom half of the top league could possibly support that. To change the prize money distribution or increase the number of clubs needs 11 of the top division to support it.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 16:59

This reconstruction is only because Hearts should be relegated. If it had been one of the smaller teams like Ross County, this would never have been raised.

matt forsyth
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 17:30

Agreed. Don't bother and just relegate Hearts. They don't deserve their place.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 18 Apr 19:15

I have never heard the word "temporary" used more often in two hours.

There was little doubt Ann's proposals are "temporary" and will linger just long enough for Hearts FC to jump into the lifeboat.

She had crocodile tears for Partick Th and Stranraer.Willie Miller suggested it just creates a new problem down the track when three clubs have to be relegated.

It was Brian who outlined the 9-3 vote.I just quoted him.

Just as fascinatiing was the fact Aberdeen implied all week that they would vote "no" but at 1640 they decided to vote "Yes".That was after the Phonecall from one Neil Doncaster.A lot more clubs will demand an Independent Enquiry.Michael Stewart pointed out that at the count, at a Parliamentary Election, you cannot announce at 2140 that there is no need to worry because there are enough votes cast.He speculated if Hibs received a similar call as their actions mirrored the Dons.Aberdeen said what swayed it was their concern for little clubs.

The Falkirk Chairman spoke very well.Bill Clark of Raith Rovers will tell us tomorrow of his joy at being promoted.The back page of the Sundays should be a good read.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Sun 19 Apr 17:02

I think a worrying thing is that some of the Chairmen were talking about having to play behind closed doors till at least the end of the year. How many clubs would be able to survive that?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 20 Apr 08:18

"Michael Stewart pointed out that at the count, at a Parliamentary Election, you cannot announce at 2140 that there is no need to worry because there are enough votes cast."

Knowing the result ahead of the deadline is quite an astonishing admission.

At that level of voting nobody knows how others have voted, unless of course they are prepared to divulge their decision openly afterwards.

The conduct of the SPFL vote was shambolic in just about every respect.

The fact that journalists were able to see certain clubs returns in advance of the final result is also astonishing.

They should have taken expert advice from the Electoral Reform Society and
run a professionally conducted secret ballot - it's not rocket science.



Post Edited (Mon 20 Apr 08:22)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 14:08

Is under way again with Richard Gordon,Brian McLauchlin,Tom English,Michael Stewart,Willie Miller and others.

Tom English says a number of Championship clubs would like an Independent Enquiry but he feels there is a fear about putting their heads above the parapet.

Les Gray says there was no wrong doing though the Deloittes' terms of reference were very restricted.

If Rangers, genuinely, have evidence,which they claim is so damning,it needs to be put forward.They then need the support of 31 other clubs.

Especially when Scottish Football faces an existential crisis.



Post Edited (Sat 25 Apr 14:24)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 14:24

It wasn’t ever a secret ballot - it was a members resolution and clubs were all talking to each other on what’s app etc - there isn’t a polling station and ballot papers
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 14:26

Are there 32 clubs willing to go with this sideshow with Rangers producing little or no evidence
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 14:31

Why were clubs and the media told, repeatedly, that the only way THEIR money could be released was by voting "yes".

That was not true.

Hence the bitterness.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 14:41

self interest, amusing initially, getting both embarrassing and boring now.

just call it
celtic spl champs
dundee utd league winners and replace hearts
etc

move on

if we allow ourselves to go through a whole 'temporary' restructure to save hearts then whole games a bogey and what's the point

Edited to say, make that more embarrassing - just listened to a NI DUP MP (rangers fan all his life, if you ween't sure) raising something in parliament about it!?!?!?

FFS - call it now - as it stands - move on and look towards next season



Post Edited (Sat 25 Apr 14:49)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 14:47

Quote:

DBP, Sat 25 Apr 14:41

self interest, amusing initially, getting both embarrassing and boring now.

just call it
celtic spl champs
dundee utd league winners and replace hearts
etc

move on

if we allow ourselves to go through a whole 'temporary' restructure to save hearts then whole games a bogey and what's the point


Exactly. All this fiddling to appease certain clubs is a joke.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 14:48

I said,last week,that I was stunned how brazen Ann Budge was.

I had expected her to show sympathy to Partick Th,Falkirk,Stranraer and Edinburgh City, not crocodile tears.

I had expected her,at least, to pretend she had had a conversion on the road to Damascus and now favoured League Reconstruction ie 14-14-14 which ticks so many boxes.

Instead, she was blatant.She wanted one year of major upheaval to save the good ship Hearts.

DBP: you may be right.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 15:18

Sliema, as I understand it, the only alternative way of getting cash out to clubs was to make loans. If you were a director of a company, responsible for your shareholders' funds, would you feel it proper to lend money to a Scottish football club during a shutdown of an unknown length of time?

My dog eats meat
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 16:19

It was a loan against their due prize money, they changed rules to allow vote to end season, same vote could have been to release funds. That’s the issues, there was other ways possible.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 16:23

There was an interesting hint that both League 1 and League 2 will vote en bloc for 14-14-14.

Raith Rovers vote as a Championship club, incidentally.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 16:25

Quote:

dafc, Sat 25 Apr 16:19

It was a loan against their due prize money, they changed rules to allow vote to end season, same vote could have been to release funds. That’s the issues, there was other ways possible.


But you don’t know what their prize money will be until the season ends. We could have ended up anywhere from 2nd to 10th, so how much would they be safe to lend us. Same for every club except DUFC.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 17:47

I think there was also a potential problem if the SPFL lent money to member clubs and any of them went into administration or liquidation. The League would be a creditor and no doubt accused of misusing funds.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 18:37

"I think there was also a potential problem if the SPFL lent money to member clubs and any of them went into administration or liquidation. The League would be a creditor and no doubt accused of misusing funds."

Wouldn't a club that went into administration without receiving the loan not be able to claim their share of the "prize money" being held by the SPFL ?

Based on the argument that they were entitled to it, having earned it as a result of final league position ?

Basically - it was their money, regardless on when it was to be paid over.

Maybe's aye - maybe's naw ?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 18:55

But the SPFL wouldn't want to run the risk of having to pay out the prize money having already given loans in recognition of the potential prize money. There was also a real chance some clubs might go straight to liquidation. I heard Les Gray(?) explaining why loans weren't feasible but I may have misunderstood him.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 20:17

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sat 25 Apr

If Rangers, genuinely, have evidence,which they claim is so damning,it needs to be put forward.They then need the support of 31 other clubs.

Especially when Scottish Football faces an existential crisis.


Seemingly, Therangers will not forward any evidence they may have until such times as the SPFL sanction an independent investigation.

I can't see them doing that any time soon, so Therangers will have to either put up or shut up. If it's as compelling as they claim, it will surely bring down Doncaster and Co.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 20:55

I am sure many fans are finding this an irritating distraction.

Rangers have had a fortnight to reveal their complaint.

On Monday the 42 Clubs will meet and will have to decide if it is justified.

Their time would, arguably, be better spent on raising revenue and reconstructing the League, and not just for one year.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Ben,D.A  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 20:57

I do hope therangers bring their evidence to light and football changes from the top down.
Mr Doncaster and co individually make more in a year than most first and second division clubs can make in five.
The power in the tower take money home for to feed their families, pay bills ect, but these clubs also pay wages, whether it be players or staff, maintenance, rentals contracts prearranged and cancelled, not to forget the cut given to the tower.

But mischief could be afoot if either were to hold a 'Blackmail' card which could be real.

Meanwhile, I take it all clubs have been paid their dues and the future is in there own hands,,,,

only 11 make the team,the rest can just but dream.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Sat 25 Apr 23:12

The 42 clubs aren’t meeting on Monday
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 26 Apr 06:44

Monday is the scheduled SPFL Board meeting.

Mea culpa.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Fri 1 May 12:13

The media are reporting that the 12 Premiership clubs are meeting today to discuss the current crisis by video call.

They will discuss the alleged Rangers' dossier though its contents will not be revealed.

Other items said to be on the agenda are League Reconstruction and Discussion when Football might resume.

Even Donald Findlay QC has publicly condemned Rangers' actions.

France is the latest country to have declared their Leagues at an end with French media speculating about Legal action.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 2 May 07:33

This programme,which was excellent on April 18th and 25th,returns today.

They will look at League Reconstruction,the growing consensus that clubs cannot be relegated,the growing pressure to resume as Germany,England and other European countries propose.They will look at the fact loans were given out after the Gretna demise and just what are Rangers going to reveal?

It would make sense to declare the Premiership at an end.Unlike England, Scottish Football derives income largely from match day cash and there can hardly be the same pressure English and Welsh clubs are under.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 2 May 07:50

Will listen, but on the ground with those I speak to (the actual folk who go to games from all clubs apart from hearts fans obviously), I've not heard any consensus that teams shouldn't be relegated

Post Edited (Sat 02 May 07:51)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 2 May 08:25

Surely Partick and Stranraer fans are also against relegation?
Personally I have a lot of sympathy for the clubs that have or will be relegated. In footballing terms they are being the worst affected by the corona virus crisis. There was no guarantee that any of those clubs were going to be relegated if the season had come to a natural end. I don't believe there was any other option other than ending the campaign very prematurely and some clubs will have been fortunate enough to actually gain from that situation. However I do believe that no club should find themselves in a worst position by the fact that the integrity of the sporting process was abandoned.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 2 May 09:51

The league was 30 games in... I accept there's no guarantee that anyone would have won or finished bottom, but after 30 games the league table provides the best indicator you could possibly have regarding how consistently well or consistently bad a team has performed against those they were in direct competition with!

And after 30 games in a 12 league set up, each team will have played each other a couple of times and that will increase to 3 times in a 10 team league.

Hearts have had 30 opportunities to not be propping up the table so hardly unfair...
Every spl team has had the same to prevent celtic running away with it (similar for all of us to stop Dundee utd being miles in front but we all couldn't so again, nobody is unfairly gaining anything!
For me, it's perfectly justifiable, fair and as we've seen given talk about temporary restructures, perfectly sensible to call it, move on and look forward to focus on how will football return as opposed to wasting energy on rubbish like "what if rangers went on a run and celtic lost all their games" etc
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 3 May 08:20

For the third consecutive Saturday this programme was excellent with Neil Doncaster of the SPFL and Rod Petrie of the SFA belatedly putting their heads above the parapet.

They were submitted to forensic analysis by Tom English,Michael,Stewart,Willie Miller, Brian McLauchlin with Richard Gordon presenting.It was testimony to the quality of the discussion that two hours passed quickly.

Neil Doncaster remains mystified by the rumours and innuendo coming from Rangers as are the SPFL Board,including our Ross,and supported by the DeLoittes Enquiry.The only problem is that the SPFL keep putting out open letters by Murdoch MacLennan and Karyn McCluskey and they do not seem aware that the more you say "there is nothing to see,move along now",the public will want to have a peek.

Rangers are unlikely to get their Enquiry as 3 Premiership clubs must vote for it and Motherwell,Celtic and Hamilton won't.

Hearts Chair,Anne Budge,was incorrect in saying the SPFL Board agreed a Loan in 2017 though there were "advance payments".Ending the Premiership is imminent and £7m will be disbursed.Frank conversations are being held with Sponsors.

Finally Petrie confirmed there is no pressure from what is happening in the English Premier League.Most Scottish Football income derives from match day income not the eye watering English TV contracts, where they would make a huge profit even if no fan passed through the turnstiles.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 3 May 09:03

"Hearts Chair,Anne Budge,was incorrect in saying the SPFL Board agreed a Loan in 2017 though there were "advance payments"."

Maybe I misheard that bit - got the impression Anne Budge was present at the SPFL meeting where the said loan / advance payment was discussed and agreed ?

Presumably the SPFL keep minutes - so there is no excuse for her being incorrect concerning such important matters that are on record.

What else might she need guidance on ?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 3 May 09:14

I agreed with Michael Stewart yesterday when he described all this stuff about loans, advances etc as “semantics.” If the SPFL did try to railroad this through then they may have something to answer for but it’s becoming more clear by the day that the only and correct decision is to end the season now and if they did do things to sway the vote then they were doing the right thing. The SFA’s medical officer (can’t remember his proper title) made a number of points that made it clear to me that there will be no football for a long time in this country. It seems to me that the talk of the problems around the vote and league reconstruction are just subjects to give the media something to keep us and them interested. In the grand scheme of things they will prove to be absolutely insignificant imo.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Sun 3 May 10:00

I just finished listening to off the ball podcast where they have the professor on answering questions. He was asked by a lady due to get married in July with 80 guests if she should cancel her wedding. The simple answer was YES as he stated not likely to have large gatherings before the end of the year. To me that sounds like ready made answer for sport.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The Toun Clock  
Date:   Sun 3 May 10:27

Heard that as well Thaipar. The guy Jason Leitch is very good and brilliant that he’s came on Off The Ball for the last 6 weeks to reach the audience on there. Wish the Government would just come out and say no football this year, put us all out of our misery.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Sun 3 May 10:38

I think he is an advisor to the Scottish government from what I picked up.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 3 May 10:39

To be fair I think the government needs to take its time before announcing anything. If there is no sport before the end of the year presumably there would also be no cinema, concerts, theatre shows, etc.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Sun 3 May 10:53

English Football League are already talking about no football in front of spectators until January.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 3 May 10:54

Socially distancing in a cinema, theatre or even a football stadium isn’t impossible. Socially distancing on a football pitch is impossible though. The SFA’s medical officer said on Sportsound yesterday that if one player tests positive then all the players in his team and any opponents he’s been in contact with would have to isolate for 14 days. The season would be a farce.

Post Edited (Sun 03 May 10:54)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 3 May 11:01

In effect though socially distancing in a theatre or cinema isn't really practical financially. You'd probably have to have 2 out of every 3 seats empty.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 3 May 11:04

True, that’s why I said not impossible. It’s not practical though.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Sun 3 May 11:10

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 3 May 11:01

In effect though socially distancing in a theatre or cinema isn't really practical financially. You'd probably have to have 2 out of every 3 seats empty.


Sounds like Vue at Ocean Terminal on a busy day.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Sun 3 May 11:11

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 3 May 11:01

In effect though socially distancing in a theatre or cinema isn't really practical financially. You'd probably have to have 2 out of every 3 seats empty.


It would require more than that. At least 3 seats behind you, 2 at each side of you and 3 in front of you. Same would apply at foofball

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 3 May 11:13

Quote:

Thaipar, Sun 03 May 11:11

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 3 May 11:01

In effect though socially distancing in a theatre or cinema isn't really practical financially. You'd probably have to have 2 out of every 3 seats empty.


It would require more than that. At least 3 seats behind you, 2 at each side of you and 3 in front of you. Same would apply at foofball


And the players??
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 3 May 11:16

You can have a team of players who have tested negative, cocoon them away, train, test regularly and play games behind closed doors. It's not ideal, but you could end a season.

Only financially possible in 2 or 3 leagues in Europe I'd say. Obviously the Premier League in England is one of them, Bundesliga also seem to think they can do it too.

NRL in Australia is also going along similar lines.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Sun 3 May 11:21

Quote:

allparone, Sun 3 May 11:13

Quote:

Thaipar, Sun 03 May 11:11

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 3 May 11:01

In effect though socially distancing in a theatre or cinema isn't really practical financially. You'd probably have to have 2 out of every 3 seats empty.


It would require more than that. At least 3 seats behind you, 2 at each side of you and 3 in front of you. Same would apply at foofball


And the players??


Simply not possible.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Sun 3 May 11:34

Only way I can look at this now is the smith's at number 10 the jones`s at 12 and Wilson sat 14 have all self isolated for 14 days, no contact with anyone outside so why can't they mingle. Same would apply in football. But in reality you have to rely on each others honesty. Can that be done?

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 3 May 11:42

"You can have a team of players who have tested negative, cocoon them away, train, test regularly and play games behind closed doors. It's not ideal, but you could end a season."

Prof. Jason Leitch was quite unequivocal - as long as the NHS is on critical alert (maybe not his precise terminology) there is no chance of behind closed doors football, regardless of other factors.

The medical people are currently on such a war footing and are likely to be for some time to come.

There are other considerations in respect of football - for example will players want to break social distancing restrictions, especially part timers in the lower leagues who have jobs outside the game ?

Their employers might not want them to resume playing.

The same applies to officials, many of whom have professional posts - take Willie Collum (for example only) he is a teacher - I doubt his head, and local authority, will allow him risking his health in this scenario.



Post Edited (Sun 03 May 11:43)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 3 May 13:37

I'm talking about England not Scotland. It's a multi-billion pound industry and the refs are professional. The UK government also seem rather more keen to release the shackles than the Scottish Government.

I think the Premier League down there will be back well before football in Scotland.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 3 May 14:00

Quote:

DA-go Par Adonis, Sun 03 May 13:37

I'm talking about England not Scotland. It's a multi-billion pound industry and the refs are professional. The UK government also seem rather more keen to release the shackles than the Scottish Government.

I think the Premier League down there will be back well before football in Scotland.


Neil Doncaster said yesterday that England in particular the EPL, would be back before Scotland. He made the point that the EPL teams can survive with the tv money whereas up here we need fans attending games otherwise the clubs cannot function.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 3 May 17:08

"I think the Premier League down there will be back well before football in Scotland."

Quite possibly - but not if the NHS in England & Wales is still on its current ongoing alert level.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 3 May 17:55

I reckon they'll be back playing before the end of June.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 3 May 18:11

I reckon that's incredibly optimistic.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 3 May 18:17

Not saying it's necessarily a sensible move but the pressure down south to get the Premier League back on will mean they move heaven and earth to make it happen.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Sun 3 May 19:27

I don't see Scottish football getting the green light anytime before October tbh and even when fans are let back in, it will most likely be home fans only to stop travelling.

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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 3 May 21:25

Some home fans have to travel relatively long distances.

I can see that restriction causing issues.



Post Edited (Mon 04 May 11:35)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 4 May 06:39

Just think though, no rangers and celtic bigot/glory buses or ferries.

Folk might have to do something whacky like go along and watch the team that represents their community!🤔
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Mon 4 May 07:11

I have made the point before that, having Home Fans only, may not be the end of the world if we can watch streamed matches eg on the IPad.

Here is an example.If Dunfermline were playing at eg Inverness I would not be there unless it was the game that would win the Pars the Championship.However ,if I were able to view the match I would gladly pay the going rate to view the match on Pars TV ,as I have in Malta.

By the same token, how many away fans travel to East End from far away clubs like Inverness or Ayr or Morton or Arbroath? They too would,surely,be willing to pay to watch the match at East End and a new income stream opens.

It would also allow Dunfermline soon to sell Season Tickets as some clubs eg Hibs and Motherwell are already doing.Then, if one watches a Home match on the IPad in one's lounge, you could view at a discount.



Post Edited (Mon 04 May 07:12)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Mon 4 May 08:07

It was Dr John Maclean, the SFA Medical Director, who was interviewed in "Sportsound" on Saturday afternoon.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 4 May 08:15

Quote:

DBP, Mon 4 May 06:39

Just think though, no rangers and celtic bigot/glory buses or ferries.

Folk might have to do something whacky like go along and watch the team that represents their community!🤔


Shame those folks weren't stranded at Ibrox or Celtic Park.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 4 May 10:06

Let's just shut the planet down for a year just to test VEE to see what else he could be negative about

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Mon 4 May 10:58

Quote:

DBP, Mon 4 May 06:39

Just think though, no rangers and celtic bigot/glory buses or ferries.

Folk might have to do something whacky like go along and watch the team that represents their community!🤔


^^^ Ah what a wonderful world that would be 👍

DunfyDave
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 4 May 11:50

"Let's just shut the planet down for a year just to test VEE to see what else he could be negative about"

Meanwhile, back in the real world, some of us recognise that the resumption of football is not the immediate top priority that it appears to be for some.

Maybe we can now get back to a sensible discussion ?

I alluded to the fact that home fans only could be a problematic issue.

If two clubs are within relatively close proximity, how do you stop away fans making an effort to attend ?

For example, do we still have to play Alloa away this season ?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Mon 4 May 12:07

All matches would be ticket only.
Away end shut.
Any person attending from out of town and caught, arrested and pay a heavy fine.
This would soon stop fans travelling.

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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Mon 4 May 12:25

Doesn't really sound workable to me. How far would be acceptable, keeping in mind that a large number of people will travel several miles to see their team play at home? Would all Pars fans who live in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Kirkcaldy, Glenrothes, Dundee be banned from going to any games? What about those who stay in Inverkeithing and Dalgety Bay?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Mon 4 May 12:32

It’s a daft idea anyway and doesn’t make sense. Are home fans immune from each other?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 4 May 12:36

"Any person attending from out of town and caught, arrested and pay a heavy fine.
This would soon stop fans travelling."

Some of us live in Alloa - how would we be caught attending the Pars game at the Indodrill Stadium ?

ID parade ?

As socks says - how would you determine what distance constitutes travelling ?



Post Edited (Mon 04 May 12:53)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Mon 4 May 12:40

Maybe we just arrest everyone from Alloa?

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 4 May 12:55

Sound about as workable as other ideas being punted !!!
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Mon 4 May 23:02

My point being not all Pars fans would be able to attend if they live outside a radius of x amount of miles away and the same for every other club.
It would be designed to minilamize travelling.
For us at least, if it still comes to social distancing, we could in effect open up the rest of the North Stand and accommodate the average crowd.

As for season tickets, I'm very dubious if they will even get off the ground when we have no clue as to when we start, how many games will be played etc.

It's possible temporary 3 month long tickets will be on offer instead to keep the short time finances going.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Tue 5 May 07:33

Feels unworkable to me - if we are still in a situation where travel is restricted then I see no way gatherings in the thousands will be allowed.

Imagine saying to Rangers and Celtic fans they are only allowed in if they live within “x” miles of Parkhead or Ibrox - huge numbers of people would simply ignore the instructions and try and get in anyway.

I fear we just have to accept that we are still a considerable way off resumption of crowds at football matches.

I think the public in general will get a shock when restrictions are relaxed - social distancing will still be a requirement - the supermarkets will continue as they are now - the banks have queues now when they are only doing emergency transactions, these queues are likely to get much longer as we return to “normality”.

Yesterday, I saw 5 people pulling up the shutters and going into Primark - I suspect this was the staff going in to prepare Social Distancing measures for when they reopen - god knows what the queues will be like in places like this as they will be severely restricting the numbers they allow in at any one time (did you see the queues at the drive through Costa the other day when it reopened? What will it be like for “proper” shops).
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Tue 5 May 07:53

Tom English.of BBC Sport Scotland, says Rangers are to present their dossier of evidence of SPFL misconduct today.

He goes on to say that either they have done Scottish Football a great service or they are going to end up utterly humiliated.

Critics argue that Rangers have been saying things for weeks to throw red meat to their fans in the full knowledge that they do not have the funds to go to the Court Of Session.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Tue 5 May 07:59

In theory we could house our normal crowd in the stadium and observe social distancing

Put a tick or a cross on the seats, do not open the turnstiles but the big gates at the entrances and have season tickets or online purchased tickets checked on entry from a safe distance . Stagger the times people should turn up and give the entrance gate which prevents a large queue to gain access. wedge the toilet doors open with alcohol gel available

No catering or hospitality functions

It’s not impossible and there are probably flaws in my plan but worth discussion

The clubs who have adequate stadia to house their support could play to a crowd with those who can’t either reducing their season ticket sales to suit or having to play behind closed doors and stream matches live

Would never be accepted in the top league as the Glasgow big teams would spit the dummy but in the lower leagues it’s potentially feasible
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 5 May 08:46

I can't see that working at all.

What happens at full time for example - how do you stop a large number of people exiting the ground and heading up and down Halbeath Road in a herd ?

Likewise staggered arrival times - how do you manage that ?

The there's the half time toilet run.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Tue 5 May 08:58

You can be requested to leave the stadium in rotation by the same gate you entered would only take minutes

Also the half time toilet run will be distributed around the stadium, without everyone having been to the pub beforehand there won’t be such a huge rush anyway

The arrival times are relatively easy if they are spread over half an hour and a way to allocate arrival time found (can be put on pre purchased tickets what gate to enter and time to arrive)

The old normal won’t apply for some time so we have to accept if we want to attend these things then we would need to adapt to the new normal

Who would have thought there would be six feet apart queues and direction arrows in supermarkets but it’s the new normal now and people accept it and have adapted to it



Post Edited (Tue 05 May 10:25)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 5 May 09:11

Aye, but there aren't a few thousand trying to get into a supermarket for 105 minute shopping experience, so that comparison is a non starter IMO.

I just don't see it working, other opinions will differ of course.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 5 May 09:14

Quote:

veteraneastender, Tue 5 May 08:46

I can't see that working at all..


Well there's a shock.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Tue 5 May 09:17

"What happens at full time for example - how do you stop a large number of people exiting the ground and heading up and down Halbeath Road in a herd ?"

While that could possibly be managed, there is no way of doing an evacuation in similar circumstances so for that reason alone there is virtually no way that a safety certificate can be issued.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 5 May 09:32

"Well there's a shock."

I wondered how long it would take for your irrelevant contribution to surface.

Feel free to add something useful and pertinent to the discussion.

In your own time - carry on.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: SAP PAR  
Date:   Tue 5 May 09:49

I think the Boreham Wood Chairman sums it up here
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 5 May 10:00

Quote:

veteraneastender, Tue 5 May 09:32

"Well there's a shock."

I wondered how long it would take for your irrelevant contribution to surface.

Feel free to add something useful and pertinent to the discussion.

In your own time - carry on.


What's the point? You'll dismiss it together with any other attempts to even begin to return to some sort of normality and bring even an ounce of enjoyment back into our lives.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Tue 5 May 10:16

In the event of an Evacuation the exit of the stadium would take priority over social distancing so that argument would not stand up

Do you not think that Tesco would have the same issues in the event of an emenrgency?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 5 May 10:30

"What's the point? You'll dismiss it together with any other attempts to even begin to return to some sort of normality and bring even an ounce of enjoyment back into our lives"

I suggest you pull up BBC Radio iPlayer for Good Morning Scotland today around just before/after 8am - Prof. Frank Snowden of Yale University.............you'll get an expert opinion on the "even begin to return to some sort of normality" scenario.

Update - Prof.Frank Snowden

From 1:54:02



Post Edited (Tue 05 May 10:59)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: KirklistonPar  
Date:   Tue 5 May 10:31

I recon football & other sports going forward will be played in a empty stadium. If these sporting events can be streamed ie Pars TV, them our season tickets will be a digital one & the clubs can still make money. That way we can enjoy from home.
Would be amazed if supports will be allowed inside football grounds this year.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 5 May 11:21

Quote:

veteraneastender, Tue 5 May 10:30

"What's the point? You'll dismiss it together with any other attempts to even begin to return to some sort of normality and bring even an ounce of enjoyment back into our lives"

I suggest you pull up BBC Radio iPlayer for Good Morning Scotland today around just before/after 8am - Prof. Frank Snowden of Yale University.............you'll get an expert opinion on the "even begin to return to some sort of normality" scenario.

Update - Prof.Frank Snowden

From 1:54:02


I don't need your 'suggestions" thank you very much. Trust me when I say I know how serious this situation is.

I'm going to back off now as I can't be bothered. You're just one of these people I tend not to surround myself with.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Tue 5 May 11:24

You're just one of these people I tend not to surround myself with.

Good to see you are doing your bit for social distancing 😊😊

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 5 May 11:41

Quote:

Thaipar, Tue 5 May 11:24

You're just one of these people I tend not to surround myself with.

Good to see you are doing your bit for social distancing 😊😊


😁😁😁

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 5 May 12:05

"You're just one of these people I tend not to surround myself with."

Sorry I can't tell you what you want to hear.

Seriously, you should listen to that radio clip before passing judgement.

Thaipar - nice one !!!



Post Edited (Tue 05 May 12:05)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Tue 5 May 14:14

Fans could get their temperature checked before entry. Plus face covering may be the norm.

matt forsyth
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: ianbd6  
Date:   Tue 5 May 14:20

I will play devil's advocate here. I think we will be watching live football sometime in September. My reasonings is. About 8 weeks ago I was watching the news and they had some boffin on from Oxford uni and they were talking about not having a vaccine for 12 to 18 months. Last week I am watching the same guy saying that he was confident there would be a working vaccine by the end of September this year. Other virologists are confident that they will have an inhibitor pretty soon. scientists tend to work on a worst case scenario so fingers crossed. When Boris came back on the scene one of the first things he said he would do was get the economy going again. We have already seen it start with B&Q opening its doors followed by Gregg's starting a take away service.There is a lot of pressure on the government from business owners to speed up the loosening of the lockdown. Even the guy from weatherspoons has told his pubs to prepare or opening sometime in June. Now I am not for one minute saying it is safe to pop down to the pub and go watch a game but it is 16 weeks untill September. As each week goes by hopefully this virus will become more controlled and more freedom given back to us. I have read all the posts on this thread and the concerns of folk about getting in and out of a stadium and the closeness of people once inside the ground so why not have games prepay only and all attendees must wear a face mask and gloves. As for the players all of the so called experts have said in the open air it is very unlikely you would get the virus. How often on the field do players actually come into contact and for how long. Games behind closed doors will only work for the well off clubs and not for long.proffesional football is a spectator sport. The season has ended so the clubs need to sort themselves out and fix a date to aim for and plan for next season. It's time to be positive. This virus won't be going away in the next month or two but it is going to go away and i think the boffins will come good sooner than we think.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Tue 5 May 14:39

Rangers have now postponed revealing their dossier today.

This could hardly be more embarrassing.

Meanwhile 9 Premiership Clubs have asked the SPFL to call the season and, sensibly, declare Celtic Champions.

The Scottish Government may do that for them anyway.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Tue 5 May 14:57

"Rangers have now postponed revealing their dossier today."

With all the kids at home, there must be issues getting your hands on crayons down Govan way.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 5 May 18:46

Quote:

Sliema Par, Tue 5 May 14:39

Rangers have now postponed revealing their dossier today.

This could hardly be more embarrassing.


It can't be that embarrassing, Slimey Par. The BBC have not deemed it significant enough to report it on their website. Did some big fat bloke tread on the whistleblower's whistle? Or maybe he only exits in their feeble imagination?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Tue 5 May 19:54

Hey when did I morph into Slimey Par?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Tue 5 May 19:57

Perhaps you slithered
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 5 May 21:16

Quote:

Sliema Par, Tue 5 May 19:54

Hey when did I morph into Slimey Par?


It's that damn predictive text, Slimey. ☹

If you want to challenge me to a fight, we can slug it out in the centre circle at EEP. Maybe it could be streamed on Pars TV and make some cash for the Pars?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Tue 5 May 21:29

Would be more of a box office draw than Mike Tyson getting back into the ring



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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 5 May 21:41

Am no paying box office for a 10 second bout
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 6 May 07:04

Mama Mia!
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 6 May 07:39

Michael Stewart has described Rangers behaviour in the last four weeks as "totally unacceptable".

They have demanded an Independent Enquiry without delay, without revealing any evidence whatever of misconduct.

They claim some clubs have seen the evidence so why not show it to the SPFL Board?

Is it just possible their press statements have been to appease their fans?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Wed 6 May 07:47

Slug it out with Slimey, will it be at a snails pace?

Who will be with you, Michelle?



Post Edited (Wed 06 May 07:51)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 9 May 07:06

As my learned colleague GG Riva has advised,"Look at the small print".League Reconstruction is not cancelled.It is postponed.

Today's BBC Radio Scotland "Sportsound" will cover the dossier,the EGM and League Reconstruction.

Yesterday the Premiership was looking at the 14-14-16 League Structure which was never going to get enough support as 11-1 was required to change the Articles Of Association.

On the agenda on Tuesday all 42 clubs were to discuss 14-14-14 but has that been put in abeyance?That was unclear last night as both TV Scottish News bulletins were on air minutes after the Hampden meeting broke up.

If we are definitely being joined by Hearts,the boost to our club income will be considerable.

Though relegating clubs and the treatment of Falkirk and Edinburgh City both stink.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Sat 9 May 08:32

Postponed or Cancelled - The tone is still negative SP.

Better more reassuring words could have been used when issuing a press statement

DunfyDave
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Sat 9 May 08:40

During a global crisis is not the time to reconstruct Scottish football this can be picked up at a later date
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 9 May 09:42

We have been discussing League Reconstruction for more than thirty years.

It has not come out of the blue.

The predicament of Hearts but also Partick Th,Falkirk,Stranraer,Edinburgh City,Kelty Hearts and Brora appeared to give us rare leverage but the opportunity has been missed.

It must be said that the hectoring tone of Ann Budge and her ironic condemnation of self interest,added to her brazen attempt to get a temporary fix just to save her Club, were very unhelpful.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Sat 9 May 12:27

Well said SP

DunfyDave
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 9 May 14:24

Great decision, call it this year, focus energy on how you, me and others on this forum can return to football and what that might look like.
If the clubs are so keen on reconstruction, for the right reason, for the good of the whole game then let's use the time to do our properly, implement it season after next.
Worse thing we could do would be a temporary reconstruction and the carnage that would ensue when we regress (all to save two teams who are deservedly where they are in the league and after this long in the season will be correctly relegated (likewise those who are leading the league deservedly are declared winners)

why does stewart keep saying they've been relegated in the boardroom and not on the park... can he count to thirty (three zero) games. relegation in the boardroom is to say something like, without a x-seater stadium you can't stay in the league - being gash for 30 games, playing your direct competitors three time and being planted at the bottom of the table is on the park!



Post Edited (Sat 09 May 14:31)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Sat 9 May 14:33

8 games to go. 24 points. Put the pars in hearts or Partick position and if you still agree then fair enough.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sat 9 May 14:46

Quote:

dafc, Sat 9 May 14:33

8 games to go. 24 points. Put the pars in hearts or Partick position and if you still agree then fair enough.


Still agree. Patrick and Hearts have been rank rotten. They've only themselves to blame.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 9 May 14:48

i've answered that question about 20 times.

so your question is if dunfermline were poor on the park for the majority of the season, played all their direct competitors at least three times, some four times and we still found ourselves rooted to the bottom of the table and due to a world wide pandemic that has caused countless deaths the few games left couldn't be played.

off course i'd be p*ssed off... i'd have been p*ssed off all season TBH, and when the dust settles, i'd never say it but deep down i'd know ...that the league had to be called and we were in the ejector seat through what our inability on the field.



Post Edited (Sat 09 May 14:49)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 9 May 14:57

Leslie Deans,Lawyer and former Hearts Chairman,has outlined the devastating effect on Scottish Football if Hearts FC(perhaps with the backing of Partick Th,Falkirk,Stranraer etc) move for Interdict.

He is confident Hearts could win £3m compensation while delaying the new Scottish Football Season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 9 May 14:58

its bugged me for a while and its been mentioned a few times again that the vote, how it was proposed and handled is why there is so much anger etc, it doesnt matter if it was one vote or ten individual votes the outcome was always going to be the same!! the season was never going to finish, you were never going to get reconstruction, null and void was never an option and then you would have to promote and relegate teams.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: the saline hill puma  
Date:   Sat 9 May 15:02

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sat 9 May 14:57

Leslie Deans,Lawyer and former Hearts Chairman,has outlined the devastating effect on Scottish Football if Hearts FC(perhaps with the backing of Partick Th,Falkirk,Stranraer etc) move for Interdict.

He is confident Hearts could win £3m compensation while delaying the new Scottish Football Season.


And if they lose any legal proceedings they would lose millions
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 9 May 15:03

i suppose we should be thankful for the miracle that we still have games to go to... given it was going to collapse when Rangers weren't allowed to stay in the SPL a few years back.

if hearts going down kills the whole of the scottish game, then it's been fun while it lasted and any suggestions on what sport i should go along to watch instead?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 9 May 15:07

Beach Volleyball has a helluva lot going for it

I don't know the rules though......
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 9 May 15:10

the saline hill puma: Hearts,Rangers,Partick Th have all taken Legal Counsel and they have all been assured of success by a QC.

There are contributors on the Pars Fans Forum who are Lawyers who can enlarge on this.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: the saline hill puma  
Date:   Sat 9 May 15:15

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sat 9 May 15:10

the saline hill puma: Hearts,Rangers,Partick Th have all taken Legal Counsel and they have all been assured of success by a QC.

There are contributors on the Pars Fans Forum who are Lawyers who can enlarge on this.


They won't have been assured of success. They have been provided a opinion. Nothing more.
The SPFL Board may well have sought opinion from Counsel that differs... Has that thought crossed yer mind?

Eta the Premiership season hasn't been officially ended as far as I am aware so hearts have yet to be relegated

Post Edited (Sat 09 May 15:21)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 9 May 15:21

^^ correct.

English having another nightmare on his crusade, utterly desperate stuff from him!
Bonner and Miller not far behind.

somethings can be very simple if you look at them that way, Allan Maitland showing that today but that is beyond the "panel" and plenty in the game in this country.



Post Edited (Sat 09 May 15:31)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 9 May 15:41

Christ on a bike. If Leslie Deans is speaking out then you know Hearts are in bother. Suppose he is well acquainted with fraud.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 9 May 16:18

"They won't have been assured of success. They have been provided a opinion. Nothing more."

Correct - and legal counsel at QC level don't operate on a "No Win, No Fee" basis - they always win no matter the outcome.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 9 May 17:08

That would almost mean it's in a QCs interest to allow clients to believe they have a chance in order to get the lucrative gig!?🤔
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Sat 9 May 19:00

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sat 09 May 15:10

the saline hill puma: Hearts,Rangers,Partick Th have all taken Legal Counsel and they have all been assured of success by a QC.

There are contributors on the Pars Fans Forum who are Lawyers who can enlarge on this.


HeRts, Rangers and Partick have taken Counsel’s Opinion on the facts as described to Counsel by Hearts, Rangers and Partick Thistle.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Mr Mac  
Date:   Sat 9 May 19:24

Donald Findlay offers to help mediate and questions the dossier

'Findlay added: “I don’t believe I’m seeing anything [in the dossier] that would merit a full-blown enquiry. I just don’t see it.

“I might be missing something. I thought we were going to see evidence of corruption and bullying and I’m not seeing that at all.

“Someone will need to show me where it is. There seems to be argument about procedural matters and so on.

“You don’t need a full-blown enquiry for that.'

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/1315943/rangers-spfl-cowdenbeath-donald-findlay-qc/

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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 16 May 11:09

It is on at 2pm today.

The Premiership being called on Monday will,no doubt,be discussed.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 16 May 14:19

Chris McLaughlin reporting that the Ann Budge Working Party are to present their proposal for a two year temporary fix.

It is grossly unfair that clubs can be relegated this season.

SKY do not appear to have any objection.

They want Edinburgh and Glasgow derbies.



Post Edited (Sat 16 May 14:20)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 16 May 14:58

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sat 16 May 14:19

Chris McLaughlin reporting that the Ann Budge Working Party are to present their proposal for a two year temporary fix.

It is grossly unfair that clubs can be relegated this season.

SKY do not appear to have any objection.

They want Edinburgh and Glasgow derbies.


"He who pays the fiddler calls the tune."

Football is now facing the consequences of prostituting itself to TV, instead of looking after its paying customers. I suppose it's easy money, in the same way that going to the tip was an easier meal for seagulls than catching fish.

What happens when the tip is shut, though?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 16 May 15:14

Ann Budge must have dirt on someone to be pulling this off. League reconstruction benefits very few clubs. Are Hearts fans not embarrassed by this? I was disappointed when we got relegated when Rangers 1.0 went bust but I accepted that we'd not been good enough that season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 16 May 15:22

Difference being the league came to a natural conclusion that season. It wasn't halted with things still very much up for grabs.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 16 May 16:18

Correct.

Rangers demise 2012 was never going to prevent the bottom club being relegated.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 16 May 16:26

Not strictly true. How many points did Rangers effectively steal from us that season? The Jambos have been rank rotten all season. You don't see us complaining about a lack of a play off spot.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sat 16 May 16:57

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 16 May 15:22

Difference being the league came to a natural conclusion that season. It wasn't halted with things still very much up for grabs.


You can win a league when things are still up for grabs, but not be relegated? Doesn't seem fair or fit with sporting integrity imo
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 16 May 17:01

it is even more grossly unfair to relegate teams who weren't even in relegation positions

all that is happening is an actual proposal will be put forward which is what is meant to happen and presumably voted on, it doesn't mean the chances of it happening have increased in any way. the chances are slim at best, probably close to zero after the comments from Inverness, Partick and Falkirk last week which teams will remember that's for sure.

only interesting thing I heard was the furlough scheme still applies to players who are out of contract but sign new contracts, was a bit of confusion around that issue previously.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 16 May 17:09

Quote:

jake89, Sat 16 May 15:14

Ann Budge must have dirt on someone to be pulling this off. League reconstruction benefits very few clubs. Are Hearts fans not embarrassed by this? I was disappointed when we got relegated when Rangers 1.0 went bust but I accepted that we'd not been good enough that season.


There's no way there'll be any relegation, for a season that's not been completed, so fans of Hearts, Partick and Stranraer can sleep easily in the knowledge. Ann Budge and Les Gray will come up with a proposal that will gather enough support. It will need to reward the teams who were at or near the top of their leagues when Covid stopped play, while simultaneously not punishing the teams who were at or near the bottom of each division.

The new structure will depend on when football re-starts. If a short season is on the cards, teams in each league may just play once home and away. If time allows, they may have championship and relegation play offs. There's also a good chance any restructure will be temporary. I read somewhere that Ann Budge is proposing a two year interim arrangement.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 16 May 17:20

Lambo, sporting integrity is dead in the water no matter what is decided if it is decided away from the field of play.
Now if for the greater good the clubs vote to end the campaign and some clubs end up in a better position then, its not perfect, but so be it. However it doesn't sit right for me that clubs vote, so that other clubs but not themselves of course, end up in a worse position. I personally feel that league reconstruction should happen so that every club gets the opportunity to decide its own future exclusively and definitively on the field of play.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 16 May 17:42

Can't have champions if there's no relegation. Can't even pay out funds based on places as the league didn't end if you're going down that road.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 16 May 17:47

if there's no relegation and they feck the whole thing up for some temporary restructure to save hearts (who 30 games, yes thirty, are still rank rotten and bottom so deservedly will go down - especially when we all know it wouldn't have happened for hamilton, livi, etc) then that will be an absolute disgrace

also, any clubs who allow themselves to be led a merry dance to the carnage that will be done after 1 or 2 seasons when that same self interest from the 'big' clubs means it goes back to how it was before (once hearts have got themselves sorted) should be ashamed of themselves for being that stupid

can we please just call this season, enact the fully deserved promotion and relegation that goes with the the top and bottom positions and actually start to focus efforts on how football can resume again
lets see how interested the same teams are to continue the reconstruction discussions early next season, so everyone in the game can start the league knowing what positions will lead to what... or i wonder if the appetite will have dissipated once hearts are actually in the championship (probably with a wee slush fund to ensure they come straight back up that we'll all pay for)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 16 May 17:47

Yes which is why we then have league reconstruction to right the wrong of relegation being decided in a boardrooms and not on the pitch.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 16 May 18:00

nonsense towk

... i don't know who came up with the phrase relegation in the boardroom but it's a catchy soundbite i'll give them that.

it was relegation on the park pure and simple. 30 games on the park, 30 games where hearts played their direct competitors 3 times and were sitting bottom of the pile. fitba isn't cycling where the best riders hang back for the last few mountain stages...

if it's right to promote dundee united then it's right to relegate hearts

ps knee jerk reconstruction done to save one team is not the way to put in a long lasting, strategic solution that will work for the good of the game
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 16 May 18:13

It absolutely wasn't relegation on the park pure and simple. In fact it's the exact opposite. Everyone knew the rules at the start of the season. If at the end of the 36 or 38 game season you are at the bottom you will be relegated. That isn't what has happened.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Sat 16 May 18:29

Yep. The fairest way in reality was to void the season and start again, no promotion or relegation. Just write it off and put it in the history books.
We can argue all day long about point gaps with Hearts or teams at the top like Celtic or Dundee Utd, but this wasn't the case in all the leagues.
The second fairest option failing that was the plan to promote the leading team and runners up plus add Brora and Kelty making it 14-10-10-10 for next season then reset it the following season.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 16 May 18:36

"Everyone knew the rules at the start of the season"

Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close Season.

from the SPFL rules
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 16 May 18:36

it absolutely was relegation on the park...

nobody is suggesting that livingston should be relegated because they don't have the necessary budget/fanbase/stadium facilities (now that would be relegation in the boardroom)

seems to me the only team being discussed is hearts... wonder why that is? maybe because on the park hearts were rank rotten and after 30 games they're bottom of the league - hmmm, but that would suggest it's their on the park performances????
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 16 May 18:41

I'm not just discussing Hearts. I'm also discussing Partick and Stranraer. I don't quite get why everyone thinks there is a big clamour to save Hearts. They were relegated a few seasons back along with Hibs which saw them depart a league that didn't have a Rangers version in it and the league wasn't reconstructed then.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 16 May 18:43

you might not be discussing hearts towk, but they are the only reason any of this reconstruction talk is happening - that and the celtic 9 in a row
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 16 May 19:01

Brora vs Stranraer 620 mile round trip 12 hours 24 mins travelling Ouch :)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Jeffery  
Date:   Sat 16 May 19:57

The only way for fans of all the clubs in Scottish football to accept this would be to have none of the clubs that stood to benefit most involved. Anne Budge should be nowhere near it.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 16 May 20:09

Or keep it simple - conclude based on current positions or void the season.

All this reconstruction for the sake of 2 seasons is nonsense.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sat 16 May 22:13

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 16 May 18:13

It absolutely wasn't relegation on the park pure and simple. In fact it's the exact opposite. Everyone knew the rules at the start of the season. If at the end of the 36 or 38 game season you are at the bottom you will be relegated. That isn't what has happened.


So, by the same token you can't promote Utd, the wee team and cove as it wasn't promotion 'on the park' but 'in the boardroom', can't have it both ways. And what about teams like Clyde who'd end up with defacto relegation despite having, for them, a good season, unlike hearts or Patrick who get saved despite being absolutely murder for nearly 80% of the season....

If there is a real desire for reconstruction, we promote and relegate by points average, discuss reconstruction and bring it in at the end off whatever kind of season we have for the next one..
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 16 May 22:15

Neither promotion or relegation by vote is desirable but only one punishes clubs.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 17 May 07:54

Isn't that what promotion and relegation does at the end of every campaign...
... Rewards those who have been the best against their direct competitors with titles and promotion whilst punishing those who have been the worst against their direct competitors with wooden spoons and in scottish football, with relegation!?!?

Thats competitive sport, there's no participation medals handed out in our game, and thankfully no closed leagues like NFL (although given the temporary reconstruction nonsense seemingly being reheated, I'm now not so sure)

It's not ideal the bottom teams didn't get their last handful of games, but they had more than ample time, 30 games to prove they were the best or the worst - and after those 30 games the league table shows explicitly who had been the best and the worst, and as per every other year, when the season finishes, the winners are rewarded and the losers suffer.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Sun 17 May 08:58

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 16 May 17:20

Lambo, sporting integrity is dead in the water no matter what is decided if it is decided away from the field of play.
Now if for the greater good the clubs vote to end the campaign and some clubs end up in a better position then, its not perfect, but so be it. However it doesn't sit right for me that clubs vote, so that other clubs but not themselves of course, end up in a worse position. I personally feel that league reconstruction should happen so that every club gets the opportunity to decide its own future exclusively and definitively on the field of play.


^^^^ Some very good points on this forum

DunfyDave
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 17 May 09:30

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 16 May 22:15

Neither promotion or relegation by vote is desirable but only one punishes clubs.


Tell that to Falkirk...
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 17 May 10:07

Falkirk are, league wise, in no worse of a position than when the league was suspended. Of course reconstruction would also help them as well.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Roobz  
Date:   Sun 17 May 10:23

DBP you keep on saying that 30 games is enough, even though that means you may have played against different teams from your rivals. That’s not right.

Regardless, what about 27 games? Is that enough? What about if the team above you has played more and a win in your game in hand puts you above them?

That’s the situation Partick are in. How can that be fair?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 17 May 10:23

Point being that they could easily have finished top. Hearts on the other hand seemed pretty comfortable in that bottom spot. Even if Hearts improved, they'd probably still be involved in play-offs. Falkirk don't get to finish champions or even play a play-off.

We also lose out on potential prize money as we could've gone on a winning streak and finished a few places higher. Same with lots of clubs.

Ending the season isn't fair on the majority of clubs but reconstructing the league isn't the solution unless it's done properly (e.g. an 18 team league) and viewed as a PERMANENT solution rather than one to appease Ann Budge. Let's be honest, this is all about the Jambos - noone cares who finished bottom in the other leagues.

As has been mentioned, the Premiership is effectively run for the benefit of the TV contract. They want those 8 Edinburgh/Glasgow derbies. Tail wagging the dog...
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 17 May 11:14

The Edinburgh Derby? I suspect Sky get higher viewing figures for an English League One match. It also wasn't that long ago when both Hearts and Hibs were relegated from the top tier to join Rangers in the championship. Was there a big clamour then to change the leagues? Or the next season when Hibs and Rangers were still in the championship so there was no Glasgow or Edinburgh derby's in Scottish Football in any leagues? It's being discussed now because of the unique set of circumstances that this global pandemic has caused.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sun 17 May 11:16

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 16 May 22:15

Neither promotion or relegation by vote is desirable but only one punishes clubs.


Reconstruction punishes, club's like Clyde and Dumbarton, by effectively relegating them. But that seems to be okay as long as hearts, partick aren't?

Surely if any teams are punished for this then it's the ones who have been murder all season? Not the ones who by their standard have had a good season.

The only reason reconstruction is on the table is hearts are bottom. And for it to be temporary is even worse.

To be honest I don't think the league set up is that bad, I'd rather see fairer distribution of the prize money than changing the leagues.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 17 May 11:45

There was no excuse for reconstruction when Rangers went bust and Hibs and the Jambos went down. Let's be honest, Rangers shouldn't have even been allowed into the league.

The excuses being made right now are purely to suit Hearts. Let's no kid on that anyone gives two hoots about Partick, Falkirk or anyone else.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 17 May 11:45

<<Regardless, what about 27 games? Is that enough? What about if the team above you has played more and a win in your game in hand puts you above them?>>

firstly, simple arithmetic has been applied to negate your game in hand scenario and make it a level playing field ...and the reason i keep saying 30 games is simply because that's how many have been played - not 27, not 20, not 5 - hypotheticals like that don't matter right now - what does matter is that we have two choices, call it or cancel it.

i personally think 30 is enough to call it, maybe you don't i'm not sure but for me, if you're 80% of the way through a major campaign then you can't pretend it hasn't happened and when it's a league format and we cant go on then i'll always vote for calling it. they're only one or two games away from deciding it's enough to do the split, so clearly your concern doesn't apply at that stage, where the 7th placed team could still make a euro spot for example.

as i've said many times, temporary reconstruction is a complete non-starter and will only lead to absolute carnage when it returns back (i'm assuming that will happen as soon as hearts are safe and the diddy teams are all in the bottom slots)...

i'm all for having a proper look at reconstruction but not in panic or for the wrong reason, i.e. as a result of calling this league. in fact, if we finished the league and called it, prizes, promotions and relegations dished out as they should be, then i'd fully back reconstruction and i would believe it could be done for the right reasons with limited self interest coming to the fore.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 17 May 11:54

Partick have played 27 games.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 17 May 11:57

don't be so naive - nobody gives a toss about partick, this is all about hearts
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sun 17 May 12:11

Quote:

Roobz, Sun 17 May 10:23

DBP you keep on saying that 30 games is enough, even though that means you may have played against different teams from your rivals. That’s not right.

Regardless, what about 27 games? Is that enough? What about if the team above you has played more and a win in your game in hand puts you above them?

That’s the situation Partick are in. How can that be fair?


You're overlooking the fact that they were rank rotten all season. And they're weegies.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 17 May 12:14

Quote:

DBP, Sun 17 May 11:57

don't be so naive - nobody gives a toss about partick, this is all about hearts


It would seem to be a statement of fact rather than a show of naivety.

You're talking about "calling it" as 30 games is enough. You dismissed the notion of 27 games as it wasn't based in reality.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 17 May 12:15

and everyone voted, decided on it and even they've accepted it - because as not only were they ***** as you pointed out BigJPar... but they know they were and deep down, they know they deserved their fate - league tables don't lie


edited to say that there's no point even talking about them. we all should know that they're a minor bullet point at best in the anne budge sales pitch. if it was livi in bottom slot (and maybe celtic were only on say 4 in a row), we wouldn't even be having this debate... all calories would be being burned would be on the real issue, i.e. what is football going to be like when we start up again



Post Edited (Sun 17 May 12:18)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sun 17 May 12:16

Quote:

DA-go Par Adonis, Sun 17 May 11:54

Partick have played 27 games.


Dundee Utd and the wee team have only played 28 games. Is that enough to give them the title?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 17 May 12:21

Probably not.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 17 May 12:24

Albeit, there's an argument that Utd, and for that matter Celtic or Cove, are more deserving than the Rovers.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sun 17 May 12:30

Quote:

DA-go Par Adonis, Sun 17 May 12:24

Albeit, there's an argument that Utd, and for that matter Celtic or Cove, are more deserving than the Rovers.


Which is why you have to do both or neither, not just one bit and fudge the rest so no one gets up set.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 17 May 12:40

I'm not in disagreement

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sun 17 May 12:41

When the season was suspended, I was very much of a mind that the season must be completed whenever possible, however long that might take, because it was the only way to get a fair outcome. However, I changed my mind on that completely because as I htought about it more, it just seemed completely impossible.

So, if you accept that the season had to end, as I now do, you accept that there isn't a completely fair way of settling things and you're left with finding the least unfair outcome. Changing a league structure and giving sides artificial promotions that they haven't earned is not fair. Sporting advantage/disadvantage is entirely relative to your competitors so if you artificially promote teams and change league structures to accommodate this, by the nature of it you are disadvantaging almost everyone else at the expense of the few.

Those complaining that it's not completely fair to relegate sides based on an incomplete season are right, but where they are very wrong is that they completely fail to take into account the blatant unfairness of their favoured alternative. If someone has to be advantaged, it should be the clubs who have had the best seasons to date. If someone has to be disadvantaged, it's logical it should be the clubs who have had the worst seasons to date. The resolution that was approved by vote achieves this, and the outcome of it should stand.

In terms of how much of the season is enough, it's always going to be an arbitrary call. Had suspension been in October then voiding it would seem a more reasonable outcome, but with 75% played, settling on points per game seems reasonable to me.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 17 May 12:51

It's a tricky one, no doubt.

The best point made was that the decision should not have been in the hands of anyone who could benefit or have lost out from the decision (aside from maybe ourselves, Arbroath, Hibs and St.J as the gain/loss has been fairly minor). If you take everyone with a vested interest out of the picture, you'll probably get a common sense solution which is, I guess, where we're at.

As for next season, I'd promote Kelty and Brora, play every game at a neutral venue and have one league of 44 teams, all playing each other once - Argentinian style from a few years back. Then we can box all the clubs back up in to their 4 tiers, Lowland and Highland League after that. No-one unfairly treated, no complaints of the same old fixtures. I can't possibly see a counter-argument.



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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.


Post Edited (Sun 17 May 12:52)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 17 May 12:56

That's a good post which makes a very good point that is difficult to argue against. So if we agree that it's unfair to relegate some clubs after an incomplete season we should also have sympathy for those clubs who are having to face the consequences of said unfairness for the greater good of the game.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 17 May 12:57

Has anyone tried working out league positions by working out the results of the unplayed fixtures using previous results as an indicator of how that game would have gone?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sun 17 May 13:19

Once again Socks nails it.

Da-go's proposal would be fun.....
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sun 17 May 13:27

Hearts will not be relegated indeed a lady called Ann told me that they will be made champions.

matt forsyth
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sun 17 May 13:29

jake89

1-7th remain the same, QOS 8th on goal difference to Partick 9th, Alloa bottom 3 points behind.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 17 May 13:36

What about in the Premiership? For completeness it'd need a calculation on Falkirk's chances of beating Partick.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 17 May 13:58

Cardle scores the winner in injury time, following a mazy dribble and cutback from Williamson.

They celebrate in front of the Falkirk support, lifting their tops over their heads to show t-shirts with the photo of Noel Hunt mid-somersault after scoring the winner in the Hogmanay derby.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 17 May 16:57

Partick have been rotten for the best part of 3 years and deserve to go down. Bye bye

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 17 May 18:27

"1-7th remain the same, QOS 8th on goal difference to Partick 9th, Alloa bottom 3 points behind."

I must be missing something here ?

What formula has been used to calculate these standings ?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 17 May 18:56

Games yet to be played in quarter 4 of the season and applying the results from Q2 as the anticipated scores.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sun 17 May 18:58

VEE Ann Budge.

matt forsyth
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 17 May 19:05

Quote:

eastendalloapar, Sun 17 May 18:58

VEE Ann Budge.


I guarantee if we were bottom he wouldn't be fighting our corner. We'd get told to accept it etc

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 17 May 21:06

"Games yet to be played in quarter 4 of the season and applying the results from Q2 as the anticipated scores."

Thanks for that.

An astonishing scenario.

If you go by that mindset, there's no need to play Q3 and Q4 of the season, just call it after the final game of Q2.

Mrs.Budge is clearly desperate applying logic like that to make a case for Hearts position.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 17 May 21:19

I'm not sure she is. I thought it was just someone further up the thread answering the query.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 17 May 23:10

Quote:

DA-go Par Adonis, Sun 17 May 21:19

I'm not sure she is. I thought it was just someone further up the thread answering the query.


It was in response to my query. People keep saying 30 games (in the case of the Premiership) isn't enough yet you could draw.some fairly accurate estimated results with nearly 80% of the games completed.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 18 May 09:34

In the Championship all clubs have completed 27 games at least - if the corresponding results from Q1 and Q3 are the same, then using that logic, it's reasonable to assume that Q2 and Q4 will be likewise.

However that's flawed thinking, and wouldn't translate into real world results - it has to be 100% to decide final placings.

80% would mean at least one "rogue" result every league Saturday.



Post Edited (Mon 18 May 09:36)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Mon 18 May 09:44

"In the Championship all clubs have completed 27 games at least - if the corresponding results from Q1 and Q3 are the same, then using that logic, it's reasonable to assume that Q2 and Q4 will be likewise.

However that's flawed thinking, and wouldn't translate into real world results - it has to be 100% to decide final placings.

80% would mean at least one "rogue" result every league Saturday."

Calm yer ham.

It was a question by Jake asking if any one had used the Q2 results to give and 'indication' of what the final placings could have looked like.

Unless I've missed something it was nothing more serious than that.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 18 May 09:53

One of the main attractions of football is its unpredictability. There have been many examples of clubs making 'miraculous' escapes from relegation with a late change in fortunes. We've done it ourselves a few times. I'd be quite miffed if we were relegated without the chance to play all our scheduled fixtures.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 18 May 10:05

"It was a question by Jake asking if any one had used the Q2 results to give and 'indication' of what the final placings could have looked like."

I think we've all been in the pokey too long !!!

The highlight of my week is going to Tesco - says it all really.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 23 May 14:03

"Sportsound" today is to focus on the Championship and Finance at our level..

League Reconstruction News will be updated.

Ian Maxwell of the SFA is the interviewee.

There will be a focus on Closed Doors Football.



Post Edited (Sat 23 May 14:04)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 23 May 15:32

The programme is focussing on a truncated Championship Season.

They are looking at multiple matches over a weekend at one large stadium.

Ian Maxwell has hinted strongly at Financial Help from FIFA.

He remains of the opinion that Football will be under way by August.

The guest is the Chairman from Ayr United.

He would not rule out Closed Doors Streamed games if there were financial assistance.Ayr propose to extend contracts for the moment though some Championship Clubs fear HMRC Liability.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sat 23 May 16:17

Multiple matches at one stadium is a good idea except the pitch would take a hammering




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 23 May 16:29

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Sat 23 May 16:17

Multiple matches at one stadium is a good idea except the pitch would take a hammering


They might decide to play it at a stadium that has an artificial surface.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sat 23 May 16:51

Has the reasoning for possibly playing multiple games in one ground been properly set out yet? I mean from those proposing it in Scotland, rather than speculative guessing. I might well have missed it, but I just haven't read the logic of it from anyone associated with SPFL or SFA.

Without further info, I'm really not convinced that it achieves anything significant. It would also give a massive advantage to the small number of clubs able to play >50% of their games at home while other teams play away every week.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Sat 23 May 16:55

Presumably all teams would play at a neutral ground-although it's probably wrong to assume anything in Scottish football.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 23 May 17:02

Quote:

Socks, Sat 23 May 16:51

Has the reasoning for possibly playing multiple games in one ground been properly set out yet? I mean from those proposing it in Scotland, rather than speculative guessing. I might well have missed it, but I just haven't read the logic of it from anyone associated with SPFL or SFA.

Without further info, I'm really not convinced that it achieves anything significant. It would also give a massive advantage to the small number of clubs able to play >50% of their games at home while other teams play away every week.


It has been discussed Socks but only for the premiership I think. I’m not sure where the idea that the championship could do the same came from though.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52667320
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 23 May 19:43

Kheradine Idessane discussed this at length on "Sportsound" and said that the Championship clubs HAD discussed this.

They had also discussed the truncated season, closed doors matches, and streamed games eg on the IPad.

They speculated about attracting more revenue.

It was galling to learn from insolvency practitioners that,just two months ago,not one Scottish Club was in financial distress.

The Ayr United Chairman discussed the inequitable income distribution ie Premiership 82% Championship 11.7% share of the cake.

This becomes ludicrous when that ratio is used for "Championship Sportscene" almost the biggest audience BBC Scotland attracts.



Post Edited (Sat 23 May 19:44)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 23 May 19:59

"This becomes ludicrous when that ratio is used for "Championship Sportscene" almost the biggest audience BBC Scotland attracts."

What is that figure ?

The viewing audience numbers for this channel are dismal.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 23 May 20:07

The reason BBC Scotland enhanced the production values was their own surprise at the Friday viewing figures.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 23 May 23:34

Without knowing these figures it's impossible to make comparisons.

The average was 7,200 for all programmes.

BBC Scotland have a track record for talking up their own productions based on dubious evidence.

BBC Alba used the football they covered to support their agenda, despite the fact that only a small fraction of the audience understood the commentary, and would have watched if it were in any language.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 24 May 10:05

In a typical week BBC Scotland is watched by a total of 880,000 viewers.(Source BARB).

The population of Scotland is 5.5m.

Other popular programmes include "Landward" or "Politics Scotland".

Your comments on BBC Alba suggest you are following a political agenda more appropriate on another Forum.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 24 May 10:49

"In a typical week BBC Scotland is watched by a total of 880,000 viewers.(Source BARB)."

That will be the main BBC UK programming on Freeview 101 etc. ?

The average viewing figures for the separate BBC Scotland channel 108 are less than 5 figures.

As for BBC Alba - viewing figures are distorted by audiences who don't speak Gaelic but only watch a specific programme(s) because it is not available elsewhere.

Their football coverage is an obvious example.

A few years ago I watched a Country Music festival from the North of England - all acts performed in English, as were all interviews. The only Gaelic was from the presenter introducing the show.

It's a bit of a con, same mindset as football clubs who use Season Ticket holders figures to boost attendance numbers when absent.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 24 May 11:10

It would be rather restrictive if they only covered events where all participants spoke Gaelic. I enjoy foreign language films on mainly English-speaking channels. I doubt there are any Gaelic speakers nowadays who don't speak English.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Sun 24 May 11:12

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 24 May 10:49

"In a typical week BBC Scotland is watched by a total of 880,000 viewers.(Source BARB)."

That will be the main BBC UK programming on Freeview 101 etc. ?

The average viewing figures for the separate BBC Scotland channel 108 are less than 5 figures.

As for BBC Alba - viewing figures are distorted by audiences who don't speak Gaelic but only watch a specific programme(s) because it is not available elsewhere.

Their football coverage is an obvious example.

A few years ago I watched a Country Music festival from the North of England - all acts performed in English, as were all interviews. The only Gaelic was from the presenter introducing the show.

It's a bit of a con, same mindset as football clubs who use Season Ticket holders figures to boost attendance numbers when absent.


For all of us learning Gaelic, BBC Alba is a god send. Each to their own, but the importance of cultural diversity is for another thread, I think. Understand that the numbers are skewed by football figures however.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 24 May 12:50

"For all of us learning Gaelic, BBC Alba is a god send. Each to their own, but the importance of cultural diversity is for another thread, I think. Understand that the numbers are skewed by football figures however."

For clarity, I have no issues with BBC Alba in principle, however when they embrace programming like SPL coverage on a Saturday night to artificially boost viewing figures to justify their existence - then that invites ridicule.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 24 May 12:57

Where do you draw the line? Does that mean they shouldn't be allowed to show any programmes which might be popular with a non Gaelic-speaking audience? They often cover folk festivals, awards ceremonies etc which I find interesting.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sun 24 May 13:27

I know that many years ago there was a programme called something like Kays originals, it was about the Scots language, this language is similar to English but was more like schoolyard language of when I was a child. It is a pity that Gaelic is used on Alba as the numbers amongst who speak Gaelic is very small. I would rather hear Scots than Gaelic on Alba when it's football. Whit dae ye think about that.

matt forsyth
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 24 May 14:47

"They often cover folk festivals, awards ceremonies etc which I find interesting."

Aren't these in English - because they haven't enough Gaelic material to fill the schedules ?

We now have a separate English language BBC Scotland channel on 108 - would that not be the appropriate platform for non Gaelic stuff ?

"It is a pity that Gaelic is used on Alba as the numbers amongst who speak Gaelic is very small."

The whole point of BBC Alba is to support and develop the Gaelic language, that's why it was established.



Post Edited (Sun 24 May 14:51)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 07:47

I am looking forward to hearing the discussion about the 14-14-18 proposal today.

Unlike the usual critics, I find Richard Gordon,Michael Stewart,Willie Miller,Tom English,Chris McLaughlin,Brian McLauchlin et al Intelligent,well informed,articulate and experienced as in the case of Michael and Willie.

League 1 would benefit considerably financially with what is being proposed while we would no longer have the wretched treatment the status quo threatened.

Yes I am holding my nose at other aspects.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 10:06

What would we do without BBC Radio Scotland ?

Maybe they should have a representative on the SFA/SPFL management boards at Hampden !!!
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 11:58

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sat 6 Jun 07:47

I am looking forward to hearing the discussion about the 14-14-18 proposal today.

Unlike the usual critics, I find Richard Gordon,Michael Stewart,Willie Miller,Tom English,Chris McLaughlin,Brian McLauchlin et al Intelligent,well informed,articulate and experienced as in the case of Michael and Willie.

League 1 would benefit considerably financially with what is being proposed while we would no longer have the wretched treatment the status quo threatened.

Yes I am holding my nose at other aspects.


Utter bollox. Tom English is an embarrassment to journalism, and basically just an Ann Budge groupie. The rest are only slightly better.

Sliema, u seem blind to the fact that reconstruction has absolutely nothing to do with helping league 1 teams. It's about saving Hearts, and now with this abomination of Colt teams a benefit to Celtic and rangers.

This nonsense shouldn't be given the air time.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 13:16

Indeed. Tom English has been disgraceful throughout all of this. In his position as lead sports writer for BBC Scotland, it's totally unacceptable for him to have shown such a lack of objectivity and understanding.

Firstly there was the proposal to end the season (which has now been passed by the member clubs). Like many that week, he was slavering on about releasing the minimum amount of prize money, which would mean league placings did not have to be finalised. He didn't know that almost all money not dependent on finishing position (i.e. the amount for bottom place in each division) had already been paid out in installments over the season. Convenient for following the agenda of Ann Budge.

When it later came out that Rangers and Hearts wanted the SPFL to lend money to clubs, Budge stated in an interview that loans had been given to clubs in the past while she was a board member. An SPFL statement explained that this was not the case and that two clubs had been given an advance. Tom English, doggedly pursuing the Ann Budge agenda, in the huffy tone he now always adopts when challenged, made out that a successful businesswoman in Ann Budge wouldn't have made a mistake, and would obviously know the difference between the two. Actually, she didn't or she was deliberately obfuscating. As she has been prone to doing of late.

Then there was the Rangers 'dossier'. English was adamant that it was going to show seriously dodgy things but when it came out it was actually a load of drivel. Tom English deperately tried to claim how damning it was. When the motion on the need for an inquiry was roundly defeated, with most of those supporting it being clubs unhappy at being relegated or not promoted rather than clubs who genuinely wanted investigation into possible corruption, English took that as vindication for his stance.

Last week saw the lowest of the lot. That absurd interview with Ann Budge was with the equally compliant Brian McLauchlin, but in the subsequent discussion it was clear English had been briefed about it beforehand. To no surprise whatsoever, he was one of the leaders in the ludicrous 'put in a paper!' ranting that followed the interview, stating numerous times that all chairmen should be on the phone to Neil Doncaster to find out why the SPFL hadn't already accepted this 'no strings attached money'. It was clearly all done to try to make Ann Budge look good and the SPFL look bad.

I don't usually listen to the whole programme but often go back and listen to certain things. Today we will no doubt have discussion on the Rangers proposal. Anyone want to bet on what Tom English's take on this will be?

I used to find him OK, maybe because he was quite different to the ex-players, but his output since this situation arose has been a complete disgrace. He and Brian McLauchlin have pushed Ann Budge's agenda at every turn with no attaempt at critical questioning. It is not acceptable that he keeps being given a platform to pursue this agenda, whatever his motivation for doing so may be.



Post Edited (Sat 06 Jun 13:21)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 13:37

he has been just as bad on the daily podcasts, will he come out with "I would like to know....." on various things...do your job and find out then!

who leaked the colt story to him i wonder, Budge or his other pal Gardiner?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 13:38

If it wasn’t for reconstruction they wouldn’t have anything else to talk about. I get the impression he takes these stances as it prolongs the story and his job.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 14:27

I am NOT an apologist for Tom English.

Indeed, I have written to the BBC to complain about him in the past.

I wrote earlier that we will have to hold our noses at the Rangers' proposals.

Lambo1885 sees no benefit for League 1 clubs but a lot of new money is being discussed.

Speaking for myself I like the evident benefits for Kelty Hearts,Partick Th,Falkirk,Hearts,Edinburgh City and Stranraer.The pyramid system is respected.

What I object to is the overwhelming Celtic bias of this Foreign National.It was an absolute joy, back on 17th August, when he and Paddy Bonnar speculated about just how many goals would be put passed the Pars that day.They were crying into their beer as ET loomed.He has green tinted specs.

Friends who enjoy golf and rugby have great respect for him though.



Post Edited (Sat 06 Jun 14:30)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 14:48

what's his nationality got to do with anything Silema?

are you suggesting that only people born in scotland are allowed to work in or around (or have an opinion on) scottish football?

does that mean that all the scottish folk working for sky sports or english newspapers etc aren't allowed to comment on the EPL?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 15:42

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sat 6 Jun 14:27

Lambo1885 sees no benefit for League 1 clubs but a lot of new money is being discussed.

Speaking for myself I like the evident benefits for Kelty Hearts,Partick Th,Falkirk,Hearts,Edinburgh City and Stranraer.The pyramid system is respected.



That's not what I said, as I think you know. I said it WASN'T FOR the benefit of the league 1 clubs, but for the benefit of Hearts. Let call this lot of new money what it is, a bribe.
While you like the evident benefit for Kelty, Partick Hearts etc, wheres the benefit for the likes of Clyde who are defacto relegated by this'reconstruction'? Missing out on Partick and Falkirk, so that hearts don't have to be relegated.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 19:50

Lambo1885: Let us take a club like Clyde since that is your example.

Until this News broke they faced the very real prospect of being mothballed for much of the season.

Now they could share in £125k from each of Celtic and Rangers.

The Old Firm will pay in advance for 200 tickets at £15 each.

They will offer £1000 to stream a game.

There will be six avenues up to the Championship ie two promoted and four in the play off.

DBP: A Foreign National is not a derogatory term.In the last 12 grim weeks Foreign Nationals have saved our NHS.We are in their debt.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 19:59

Surely Rangers and Celtic could just loan their B-team players out if they want to blood them?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 19:59

There’s far too much to be sorted out for this to happen before the Premiership kicks off in August (if that actually happens). It shouldn’t be rushed and it won’t get the green light from enough clubs in the next few weeks.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 20:01

Quote:

jake89, Sat 06 Jun 19:59

Surely Rangers and Celtic could just loan their B-team players out if they want to blood them?


It was suggested today that their better fringe players would still be loaned to championship clubs and it would be younger players that played in the B teams. If it were to happen they’ll be doing well to stay in the bottom league.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 20:47

Surely there's nothing to stop Rangers and Celtic setting their B teams up as proper clubs and getting in the proper way? Surely this is insulting to the likes of Kelty, Spartans etc?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 21:40

Quote:

jake89, Sat 6 Jun 19:59

Surely Rangers and Celtic could just loan their B-team players out if they want to blood them?


Interestingly, the richest Italian clubs often loan players out, not only continuing to pay their player's wages but also paying the smaller club a "development fee" for giving the loanee first team experience.

Here the big clubs expect the smaller clubs to pay at least a proportion of the loan players wages. Can you imagine either Therangers or Sellick adopting the Italian model?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 22:02

Not sure how Clyde would be relegated. Surely they would still be only 2 promotions to top league and arguably a better chance to get into championship under new proposals.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 23:01

Tom English today said that people should look at the proposal with an open mind. That's hilarious for someone who has so doggedly stuck to a particular agenda throughout with no consideration of the other side of the argument or any hint of an open mind.

I'd certainly like a look at it if it's published somewhere. Would far rather read it for myself than take the word of those on that radio programme.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sun 7 Jun 03:52

<<Interestingly, the richest Italian clubs often loan players out, not only continuing to pay their player's wages but also paying the smaller club a "development fee" for giving the loanee first team experience. Here the big clubs expect the smaller clubs to pay at least a proportion of the loan players wages. Can you imagine either Therangers or Sellick adopting the Italian model?>>


True GG. So much about Scottish football is bottom about face...


EDIT: Bottom???

:)



Post Edited (Sun 07 Jun 03:56)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Sun 7 Jun 10:10

"Not sure how Clyde would be relegated. Surely they would still be only 2 promotions to top league and arguably a better chance to get into championship under new proposals."

1. They'd be playing against smaller clubs with fewer away supports when crowds made finally allowed.
2. They'd be playing 10 clubs who were in the League below them last season and only 3 who were in the same league as them last season (2 of whom had actually been relegated).
3. They would be one relegation away from dropping into the Lowland League rather than two.

It is more of a relegation than either promotion or staying where they are, that's for sure.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sun 7 Jun 10:31

Quote:

Socks, Sat 6 Jun 23:01

Tom English today said that people should look at the proposal with an open mind. That's hilarious for someone who has so doggedly stuck to a particular agenda throughout with no consideration of the other side of the argument or any hint of an open mind.

I'd certainly like a look at it if it's published somewhere. Would far rather read it for myself than take the word of those on that radio programme.


Would that the same open mind Tom English used, when Ann Budge read it out to him?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sun 7 Jun 12:21

Many people like me would be happy for this to happen. However should these new teams not start in lower leagues and why should it stop Budge's team from being relegated. We did not have anyone like her when one team cheeted and were thrown out of the league but like her team, we finished bottom of the league but we were relegated.

matt forsyth
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: back oh the net  
Date:   Sun 7 Jun 14:56

if Ann budge could say for definate that this money would still be offered to the championship league 1 and league 2 even if hearts weren’t in the state they are in I’d have no problems with this club or any other club accepting it but let’s be clear here until she can answer yes to that question then this new money that is being talked about is a BRIBE sliema are you honestly saying you would be happy to see this club accept a back hander to save hearts from being relegated? If that’s the case then it’s disgraceful that you would be happy to see the club involved with the deep rooted corruption that we know surrounds Scottish football

Bottom line here is if hearts had been sitting rosey clear of the relegation zone reconstruction would not being getting spoke about and this apparent new money would not be on the table face it budge and her cronies couldny give a toss about lower league clubs in Scotland before why should they now? Oh that’s right because making it look like they care now will save hearts they can away and poke it as far as I am concerned

And I really hope our board think long and hard about accepting this “new money” (bribe) and think long and hard about the fans who may not be back if we accept such a bribe

Come on ye pars ⚽️
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 05:53

Thirty minutes before "Sportsound" was due to air on Saturday 27th, all 42 SPFL clubs received a letter signed by SPFL Chief Executive Neil Doncaster.

Not only does the timing beggar belief, given Lord Clark will hold the procedural Hearing in the Court Of Session on Wednesday 1st at 11am; but Hearts and Partick Th have said the letter is misleading and both have condemned it.

Anyone involved in any Criminal or Civil case knows that you do not contact the other side directly just before Court.

On Wednesday we may gain some clarity.It should not take more than two hours said Brian McLauchlin of BBC Radio Scotland.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GEW35  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 08:07

And what makes it worse Sliema Par, is that Neil Doncaster is a lawyer so is well aware of this. How he is still in post (& in fact has had a ‘promotion’ onto a UEFA committee) is beyond me.
I’m often annoyed I love my team as much as I do as really, Scottish football is a total shambles & I should give it up!
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 08:17

“ Anyone involved in any Criminal or Civil case knows that you do not contact the other side directly just before Court.”

Actually you can, if it’s to provide clarity or additional evidence to the case in hand.

buffysbuns.wordpress.com
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 08:53

Quote:

buffy, Sun 28 Jun 08:17

“ Anyone involved in any Criminal or Civil case knows that you do not contact the other side directly just before Court.”

Actually you can, if it’s to provide clarity or additional evidence to the case in hand.


^^^^ Correct.

Also to negotiate and possibly settle out with the scope of court.

DunfyDave
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 10:36

The point I was making was that you would only make contact through a Solicitor.

If I am the accused I don't phone or text the victim.

Sorry if that was not clear.



Post Edited (Sun 28 Jun 10:38)
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 11:32

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sun 28 Jun 10:36

The point I was making was that you would only make contact through a Solicitor.

If I am the accused I don't phone or text the victim.

Sorry if that was not clear.


This dispute is a civil matter not a criminal matter. There is no “accused” and no “victim”. Hearts ant PTFC are bringing an action against a body of which they themselves are members, so when that body updates its members on the position, they are bound to receive the letter.

Move on, nothing to see here.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 11:43

Do we know the contents of this letter?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 11:47

if the papers are to be believed the letter was sent on Friday evening, it was Hearts and Partick that released their statement if you could call it that "Thirty minutes before "Sportsound" was due to air on Saturday 27th"...

the letter itself, Im struggling to see what the fuss is about.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 11:54

Yep, the timing is an obvious PR stunt.

It's them trutrying to get the usual suspects, Neil McCann, Tom English, Brian McLaughlin, Silema par etc whipped up into a froth of excitement.

The SPFL would be remiss if they weren't informing their members what is going on.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 12:07

Hearts and Partick Thistle describe the letter as "wrong and misleading".

My thanks to elvis lives in mentioning me in the same breath as such exalted company.

BBC Radio Scotland claimed that their first sight of the letter was at 130pm yesterday.

Surely any "PR stunt" emanated from Doncaster not the recipients?
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: pars4life1  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 12:17

I have absolutely no idea what a letter sent out to members of the spfl has to do with sportsound.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 12:19

We're discussing the rights and wrongs of a letter when no one seems to know its contents! Who needs facts when you can point the finger at someone? This is so typical of this forum.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 12:37

I listened to Sportsound yesterday and thought the same thing. What was the letter about? It seemed like a big reveal about absolutely nothing. To be fair, even the panel on sportsound didn’t spend that much time on it.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 13:55

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sun 28 Jun 10:36

The point I was making was that you would only make contact through a Solicitor.

If I am the accused I don't phone or text the victim.

Sorry if that was not clear.


Total misunderstanding of the situation
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 14:03

apparently this is the letter wee eck:
SPFL Letter from Neil Doncaster, 27th June 2020

Dear all

A number of clubs have asked whether we can provide them with copies of the petition lodged by Heart of Midlothian PLC and Partick Thistle Limited naming The SPFL Limited and the companies owning the three promoted clubs (Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers) plus Stranraer FC Limited, as respondents in the action. Several clubs have also asked us to provide the answers (to the petition) that we lodged in court yesterday.

There is one set of answers for the SPFL and another joint set for the three promoted clubs. We and the three promoted clubs have been advised that there are sufficiently different interests between our respective positions that to lodge consolidated answers is not possible.

Unfortunately, we have also been advised that it would not be appropriate, and arguably unlawful, to make available to non-parties the litigation copies of the pleadings lodged in court. This includes the petition, the two sets of answers and the documents (ie productions), lodged in court by the parties.

We have been advised that such items, when lodged, become the property (or at least under the control) of the court and that parties to a litigation are not permitted, subject to potentially severe sanctions, to circulate copies of such material to non-parties.

If SPFL Member Clubs wish to receive copies of the documents lodged, then it would be necessary for each of them to apply to the court to become a respondent in the action and to lodge its own individual (or potentially joint) answers, or at least to formally associate itself with the existing answers of the three promoted clubs. If any Member is considering doing so, then it should contact Rod McKenzie and he will be pleased to advise on the required procedure and the options available.

It is appropriate to observe that copies of the petition are circulating (although not through any act or omission of the SPFL) reasonably openly on the internet.

There will be a first hearing in the Court of Session, provisionally scheduled for Wednesday 1 July at 11.00am. The principle issue for discussion at that hearing is likely to be whether the petition procedure in court should be sisted (suspended) whilst the issues in dispute are determined by the Scottish FA arbitration.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 14:13

Cheers, GJS. It seems very legalistic. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.
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 Re: BBC Sportsound.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sun 28 Jun 14:24

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sun 28 Jun 12:07

Hearts and Partick Thistle describe the letter as "wrong and misleading".

My thanks to elvis lives in mentioning me in the same breath as such exalted company.

BBC Radio Scotland claimed that their first sight of the letter was at 130pm yesterday.

Surely any "PR stunt" emanated from Doncaster not the recipients?


Hearts and Partick would, wouldn't they.

Just because you believe everything on "sportsound" doesn't mean it's correct. As GJS has said, all other reports are that the letter was Friday and it was hearts and Particks statement that was on Saturday.

Sounds more like a "PR stunt" from Budge to get her lackeys English and McLaughlin shouting her case on "sportsound".
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