DAFC.net
Home 20 September 2020 
 Post Message  |  Top of Board  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Twitter Updates  |  Log In   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 
[ please login to use the Like feature ]
 SPFL League Reconstruction Fails - 15/6/20
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Fri 8 May 18:13

https://news.stv.tv/sport/league-reconstruction-off-as-plans-fail-to-win-support

Come on down Hearts!



buffysbuns.wordpress.com

Post Edited (Mon 15 Jun 13:12)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Fri 8 May 18:21

It's a pity we may miss out on big crowds at Rovers and Hearts games for next season.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Fri 8 May 18:22

Quote:

Par, Fri 8 May 18:21

It's a pity we may miss out on big crowds at Rovers and Hearts games for next season.


Eh?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Fri 8 May 18:23

Excellent, best news I've heard in a while. It was total corruption purely to allow Hearts to stay up. And a totally pointless exercise to revamp the league when we dont even know when it will he able to start, so to change everything for a season and plan a new format of games which may not even work get played was nonsensical.

Post Edited (Fri 08 May 18:23)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Alf  
Date:   Fri 8 May 18:24

Quote:

Par, Fri 8 May 18:21

It's a pity we may miss out on big crowds at Rovers and Hearts games for next season.


No we won't, Rovers promoted and Hearts down
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Big T Par  
Date:   Fri 8 May 18:26

Hearts fans will boycott away games, if fans are allowed, according to kickback



Post Edited (Fri 08 May 18:26)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: storminNorman  
Date:   Fri 8 May 18:33

aye so they will just like the Rangers fans threatened to forever boycott Tanadice
that worked out well in fact the first midweek game after they announced the boycott the blue hoards still turned up,ok not as many but boycotts never really ever com to anything.
just imagine they have to visit Dundee to win the title (we remember how that went the last time lol) does anyone seriously believe thousands upon thousands of hearts fans would not pour into the city to see the game?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Fri 8 May 18:40

We will miss out if the season is partially or completely played behind closed doors.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: the saline hill puma  
Date:   Fri 8 May 18:51

Quote:

Par, Fri 8 May 18:40

We will miss out if the season is partially or completely played behind closed doors.


Scottish football will not start without fans. Clubs can't afford it
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: twin par  
Date:   Fri 8 May 18:53

There is no chance, football behind closed doors in Scotland will happen,a totally insane idea.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Fri 8 May 19:00

Topic Originator: the saline hill puma | Like: 1
Date: Fri 8 May 18:51

Quote:

Par, Fri 8 May 18:40

We will miss out if the season is partially or completely played behind closed doors.


Scottish football will not start without fans. Clubs can't afford it


Topic Originator: twin par |
Date: Fri 8 May 18:53

There is no chance, football behind closed doors in Scotland will happen,a totally insane idea.


What are the options?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 8 May 19:05

Leaked WhatsApp chat on Follow Follow reveals that McArthur breached lockdown to go round all the Chairpeoples houses and tell them it wasn't happening as he wants 4 games against the Jam Tarts next season. Tim Keyes seemingly filled his pants when McArthur appeared in front of his bi-fold patio doors.

Post Edited (Fri 08 May 19:05)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Fri 8 May 19:13

Hopefully hearts fans boycott all away games if fans are even allowed in. They should fill own ground only for all games.
Opportunity and a Chance of change for the better scuppered, pyramid system shambles.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Fri 8 May 19:30

The teams who are bottom of their leagues deserve to be relegated they have been the worst team in their respective leagues all season

Post Edited (Fri 08 May 19:30)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Fri 8 May 19:49

Dad-chris1 does that include Partick who had not played as many games as QOS?

Just sitting here drenched in my own negativity!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 8 May 19:58

agree with dd23 although id bet Hearts will now attempt to go down the legal route, could be a race between them and Rangers for who can make this last the longest.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Fri 8 May 20:37

Posted by Kelty.

Scottish Lowland Football League Constitution and Rules Version 12 (4 June 2019)

22
b) References to rules within these Pyramid Play-Off Rules are references to the rules that are contained within this annex unless otherwise stated. Capitalised words and phrases not defined in these rules have the meanings ascribed to them in the Rules of the SPFL. c) Any amendment to these Pyramid Play-Off Rules must be agreed by each of the Scottish FA, SPFL, SHFL and SLFL prior to it becoming effective.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 8 May 20:39

Quote:

jake89, Fri 8 May 19:05

Leaked WhatsApp chat on Follow Follow reveals that McArthur breached lockdown to go round all the Chairpeoples houses and tell them it wasn't happening as he wants 4 games against the Jam Tarts next season. Tim Keyes seemingly filled his pants when McArthur appeared in front of his bi-fold patio doors.


You're a very naughty boy, Jake. Some knuckle dragging numpty is going to take you seriously and put it on his team's fans forum. Next thing you know, Ross's mobile no or email will be public knowledge and all the bampots of the day will be sending him death threats, a la the late Turnbull Hutton, the former wee team chairman. ☹



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 8 May 21:29

Having read the statement, I think the thread title should have been

"No league reconstruction - YET"

Towards the foot of the report - almost unnoticed - is the give away clue. Once the clubs have worked their way through the pandemic, they will look at any proposals again. It makes sense. We don't know when football will return to normality, with fans on attendance, nor do we know how many clubs will be left standing at that point.

Only then will it make sense to decide the structure of the leagues and the way ahead.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 8 May 21:50

"Hopefully hearts fans boycott all away games if fans are even allowed in"

Championship club treasurers might have a differing opinion on that.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Fri 8 May 22:06

They will boycott hee haw.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 8 May 22:22

Falkirk have gone into full meltdown mode with the news, marvellous!

"Falkirk FC respond to news of the failure of league reconstruction talks

Falkirk FC Chairman Gary Deans said:

“Today’s announcement will not come as a huge surprise to Falkirk supporters who have, along with the rest of Scottish football, witnessed firsthand the utter shambles engulfing our game these last few weeks.

As you know I have been working with the SPFL Reconstruction Group over recent weeks and I received a call late this afternoon (8 May) informing me that six Premier League clubs had indicated they would not support any league reconstruction at the present time.

As a club we embarked upon this process with eyes wide open and tempered optimism, hoping that the SPFL and other clubs might see the bigger picture and act in the best interests of Scottish football. In fairness, some did see that bigger picture and approached talks in a constructive manner – but once again progress has been hampered by the short sightedness and self-preservation of a small cabal within Scotland’s top division.

You will share my anger at this latest injustice, the failed promises and the general mismanagement that has occurred at the top of Scottish football for many years

The handling of this entire situation has been farcical ranging from the decisions made by the SPFL board to those clubs who have, what could only be charitably described as, misled and deceived. The principle of ‘do no harm’ to Scottish football during the pandemic was thrown out of the window a long time ago and the decision taken today will cause harm to many clubs – Falkirk included.

To add insult to injury to release a statement on a Friday evening adding to the stress of players, staff and the many people connected with football clubs is a sign of the blatant contempt that those in charge of our game hold for us all.

I have already embarked upon discussions with other clubs who share my anger and we will be considering the next steps to take over the weekend. I will keep you informed as matters progress but for now the club has made it clear that we cannot support this unfair decision taken by six clubs and supported by those at the SPFL. Change is required.

As a club we must do what we’ve always done, let our performances on the pitch do the talking, and with your support press on through the leagues and take our place in the top division where we can continue to lobby for the necessary change required in Scottish football.”



Post Edited (Fri 08 May 22:39)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: we won the cup in 68  
Date:   Fri 8 May 22:32

F*lkirk link not working.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Fri 8 May 22:44

Yes that includes Partick Thistle the PPG format makes it fair
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Jeffery  
Date:   Fri 8 May 22:56

"...once again progress has been hampered by the short sightedness and self-preservation of a small cabal within Scotland’s top division..."

Although his intellect is questionable given he's a Falkirk fan it's hard to disagree with that.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 8 May 23:00

A more pertinent endeavour for Falkirk would be to stop scratching their collective baws on the equivalent of a footballing cheese grater and wiping their ar*e with expensive over trade price sandpaper.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Fri 8 May 23:17

At the end of the day clubs had 3/4 of the season to get above the relegation positions ,a last minute goal will send down ,no change

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sat 9 May 00:29

Strange how Falkirk's magnanimous tone when accepting the decision to end the season has now completely changed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Sat 9 May 01:00

Is that because the spfl board members who were phoning all the clubs saying reconstruction is on but only on a yes vote, the same members who sat today and said not under any circumstance, it is also maybe why Brora and Kelty only released that statement tonight and quote to league rules as they too had been assured.
Seems to be more than one club using the words deceived, mis led, officials being pressured and so on. It stinks.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 9 May 01:41

Coming soon to Netflix...


Ross McArthur

as...

INTIMIDATOR!


:)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 9 May 07:12

Both "Reporting Scotland" and the very brief "STV News" went on air minutes after the Hampden meeting broke up.

On the agenda yesterday was the Premiership Clubs discussing 14-14-16.That necessitated a 11-1 vote as the Articles Of Association had to be changed.

On the Tuesday agenda all 42 Clubs were to discuss 14-14-14 which required a 9-3 Premiership vote.

What has changed?

Rangers and Partick Th cannot afford to go to the Court Of Session.Hearts can.



Post Edited (Sat 09 May 07:52)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 9 May 08:57

^^^ nothing has changed as it was never on an agenda for Tuesday, again it wouldn't be a 9-3 vote if it was and the Premier league teams were to be asked before any full proposal was put forward, if the task force didn't get the backing it wouldn't put forward the proposal, they didn't.

"Seems to be more than one club using the words deceived, mis led, officials being pressured and so on. It stinks"

league clubs who voted no at the original vote, all looking for their own interests and a free pass in some cases that was never guaranteed.

"Strange how Falkirk's magnanimous tone when accepting the decision to end the season has now completely changed"

reading some of their fans views on this last night, they weren't happy with the statement at all.



Post Edited (Sat 09 May 09:31)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 9 May 09:47

In the last week the Quality Press and the Tabloids both reported that 7 Premiership Clubs were in favour of Permanent League Reconstruction; 3 were in favour of it on a temporary basis,2 clubs would not be drawn.

Today we learn that 6 Premiership Clubs were against, 3 were in favour ie Hamilton Accies,Hearts and Motherwell while 3 abstained.That meant the planned discussion on -14-14-14 was also holed below the waterline.

One hesitates to suggest that certain clubs were lying.......
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 9 May 09:51

Hearts can't afford a court case. Maybe if they put their pennies together with The Rangers and pass the pot round at the local lodge, they may manage to be able to afford it.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 9 May 10:32

We are talking about a club which built a new Stand and redeveloped their Stadium at a cost of £6.9m and still turned in a £2.3m profit.

We are talking about a Capital City where more than half the houses are bought without a mortgage.

Hearts are in talks with Lawyers as I write.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Sat 9 May 10:45

Ann Budge might take legal advice but that is different to legal action
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sat 9 May 10:47

Hibs voted against it, apparently. Hearts will be fine. 17,000 season tickets. They’ll just have to stop giving any more p*sh players 8k a week and 4 year deals




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: JimMcDAFC  
Date:   Sat 9 May 10:49

Well as a lot of posters are saying the club's can't survive without the supporters so the supporters have most of the power. All it needs is for them to get organised collectively and confirm they will not turn up to games right from the start of season whenever that is unless the club's give them what they want. That's
if the majority of the fans do want change but I suppose it would only be sensible to wait and see what clubs survive this crisis. Also do not forget the powers that be also said they would look at the possibility of increasing the top league after the last time they increased it to 12 but review never happened.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 9 May 10:54

“One hesitates to suggest that certain clubs were lying.......”

You say in your own post that 3 clubs were reportedly for a temporary set up and 3 voted for it at the meeting. You’re assuming that this was discussed as permanent reconstruction. Maybe no club “lied?”
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 9 May 11:45

Hearts' "profits" are mainly made up of anonymous donations.

If they're such a big team, relegation would be no issue.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: storminNorman  
Date:   Sat 9 May 12:09

jake89 i think you would find that out of all the clubs threatening legal action and not just seeking advice only one could afford the costs involved and that is Hearts,it wont be Budge putting her hand in her pocket anyway it would again be the FOH (the federation) who would finance the case.
they are the body who have raised most of the funds to pay Budge back her initial investment and kept punting money into the new stand.
believe it or not the Jambo's have plenty wealthy fans ready and willing to pour funds into that club.

do i think they will proceed down that road? i doubt it probably make a lot of the right noises going forward but will reluctantly end up excepting the decision with a statement along the same lines as Falkirk being released to rally the fan base against all the injustices dished out against ONLY their club.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 9 May 12:31

this would be the same Hearts who told their players accept wage cuts or you don't get paid at all
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sat 9 May 13:05

It's amusing that Sliema Par seems so puzzled by this. The outcome is not in the least surprising to anyone who thought about it properly, for reasons that I and others have mentioned over the last few weeks. Perhaps Sliema would be better informed if he/she actually listened to what other people have to say, rather than petulantly dismissing any analysis that disagrees.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 9 May 15:01

Chris McLaughlin, on BBC Scotland "Sportsound" ,has said that there was no vote yesterday.

It was not an announcement by the SPFL Board.

It wasn't even a press release by the Working Party whose remit is League Reconstruction.

It was the feeling of the 12 Premiership Clubs plus Dundee United and chaired by Mr Cormack, Aberdeen.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 9 May 15:39

Hearts sold off equity in the club to finance their stadium improvements. No issue with that but they're far from minted enough to throw money at legal battles. They'd probably be better off accepting their fate, getting a relegation payment and buying the league next season.

The whole reconstruction was just to appease Hearts and other clubs must see this. They're like a desperate ex pleading you to come back. Throwing themselves at you and begging. Show some pride and accept it. Patrick are the ones who should feel aggrieved, not Hearts.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 9 May 15:44

If I picked Deans up correctly he was asking the Hearts fans to fund the legal dispute. He said he’s start it off by making a 4 figure donation. He said if they were successful they would be able to claim their expenses back through the courts.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 9 May 17:11

Can we all crowd fund the defense that they shouldn't get additional money... This would be an unfair advantage to them in the lower league and its unfair given they are where they are because that have been rank rotten all season and relegation is deserved

Post Edited (Sat 09 May 17:15)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Sat 9 May 19:26

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sat 9 May 10:32
We are talking about a Capital City where more than half the houses are bought without a mortgage.


That's interesting. Completely contrary to my own experience of living and working there for well over 20 years but quite intriguing.

Can you provide a source please? The Edinburgh property market was quite overheated before all this happened and, in a seller's market, I'm finding it hard to work out how prices could have risen as much as they did without people putting themselves into debt.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 9 May 23:14

Wealth in a city doesn't mean wealth in a football club. Are the New Towners and folks on the Southside regulars at Tynecastle? Doubt it.

Despite what Dunfermline folk think, there's plenty wealth in Dunfermline. That doesn't mean all those people are pouring their cash into the Pars though.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 10 May 07:31

from my experience in edinburgh (where i'm from and lived for a long time including buying houses), the only ones who were able to afford to buy outright were the ones returning home after having a career in london (or finishing their career up here, but only after gaining considerable equity in london first)

the only other ones who could afford to buy outright were the property companies who were buying to rent out - not to live
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 10 May 07:43

Or those downsizing for retirement.

Regardless, around 3% of the population of Edinburgh inhabit the stands at Tynecastle of a home game - less those travelling from outside the city.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 10 May 08:54

Anne Budge statement saying the reason for the failure of reconstruction was due to "self-interest". The irony meter just exploded.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 10 May 09:23

parsfan: I do not want the thread to go off at a tangent.

The average price of a house in buoyant Edinburgh is £302,000 and a high proportion of houses bought are affluent elderly individuals downsizing.

Edinburgh has more millionaires than most cities in the U.K.

My main point is that we should not doubt that Hearts can afford to go to the Court Of Session.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 10 May 09:31

so you suggesting that because they can afford to complain in court we should all shi*te ourselves and let them feck the whole league up for 1 or 2 year temporary reconstruction (and the carnage that would ensue when it goes back) just so they can stay in the spl?

someone made a comment that rangers are trying harder off the pitch to stop celtic winning 9 in a row than they ever did on the pitch... and after 30 games it looks like hearts are going down the same road as their on field performances put them squarely in the relegation spot and no legal threats will change that.

they clearly think that because they're the self titled, "third biggest team in scotland", they should get special treatment, eh no... you're the worst team in the SPL and should get relegated
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 10 May 09:32

To return to the surprising comment by Chris McLaughlin of BBC Radio Scotland: We have yet to hear from both the SPFL Board AND the Working Party on League Reconstruction.

What we heard on Friday was an informal Opinion by the Premiership Clubs and Dundee Utd Chaired by Mr Cormack

We should learn a lot more on Tuesday when the 42 Clubs must decide about the Rangers dossier and the Premiership should agree to call the season.

Then the fun will begin.



Post Edited (Sun 10 May 09:33)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 10 May 11:05

The clubs, understandably, don't want to consider reconstruction in the middle of a pandemic. We don't know when football, with fans, will be able to re-start. (I think we can forget any idea about the Scottish leagues kicking off behind closed doors - we're not like the EPL, which derives much of its income from TV.)

Once football gets the green light, club representatives can then discuss any proposals - old or new - which member clubs may wish to submit. If the go ahead comes in, say December of this year, a temporary, short season is the most likely outcome. I wouldn't rule out a scenario in which Hearts remain in a 14 team top flight and get a second chance to avoid relegation, before we revert to the present set up in season 21/22.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 10 May 11:15

GG Riva: I could not agree more.

One of the arguments for 14-14-14 is that we could have a curtailed season 2020/21 of 26 matches.

Journalists have said to me that it was Ann Budge's brazen attempt to get a one year temporary fix, as Hearts assemble in the lifeboat; which has really antagonised the other Premiership clubs.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Thu 14 May 07:19

I was surprised to find St Johnstone attacking League Reconstruction given their support for it over many years.

Subsequently they have said they remain in favour for much the same reasons as GG Riva outlines above.

They just did not want the rushed temporary fix Ann Budge was suggesting.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 14 May 10:43

We could be at least one Premiership club down when football eventually restarts in Scotland. A newish Glasgow club has secured a lucrative joint sponsorship deal with Red Bull and Honda.

It is conditional on them moving to Norn Iron and changing its name to Red Honda Ulster .....



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Thu 14 May 10:44)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 14 May 12:09

not on the top flight, the other 3 leagues..

from the Evening Express

Talks on SPFL reconstruction may not be completely off the table – despite a lack of support from Premiership clubs.
A taskforce, with representatives from all four divisions as well as the Highland League and Lowland League, was set-up by the SPFL last month to discuss possible reconstruction scenarios.
They were also given the mandate to bring forward a proposed restructure of the Scottish Leagues for member clubs to consider.
There had been talk of a 14-team Premiership with three leagues of 10 below or three divisions of 14 or two leagues of 14 and 16-team third tier.
But last Friday following a meeting of the Premiership clubs and Dundee United these clubs indicated they did support a rejig of the league set-up at this time.
However, the panel that is being chaired by Hearts chief Ann Budge and Hamilton Academical vice-chairman Les Gray have not yet submitted a proposal for member clubs to consider.
The SPFL has still to officially confirm that reconstruction is off the table and that the taskforce has been wound up.
That’s because member clubs have yet to receive an official proposal to vote on.
The Evening Express understands that because Friday’s meeting was not one arranged by the SPFL and because the reconstruction group were given a clear mandate to come up with a proposal, a number of clubs are of the opinion that until such time as a proposal is put forward and considered then reconstruction is not off the table.
In an attempt to sway Premiership clubs some believe a plan which includes a 12-team top flight may be brought forward.
This could include the Championship or League Two being expanded to 12 teams to accommodate Highland League champions Brora Rangers and Lowland League winners Kelty Hearts, who many feel don’t deserve to be locked out of the SPFL.
Although a proposal with an unaltered Premiership would not save Hearts from relegation it may gain the support of other top flight clubs.
Eleven of the 12 Premiership sides would be required to vote in favour a reconstruction for it to pass, with 75% approval required in the Championship and Leagues One and Two.
If a proposal is eventually put to clubs there may still not be the support across the four divisions to vote it through, but there is hope that a formal plan will be brought to the table.

the last line they could change may still not be to there will not be.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 16 May 14:16

Les Gray presented two options to the Premiership clubs.

The Anne Budge presentation will be for a temporary two year fix.

Rangers,Aberdeen and Celtic are amenable.

Source: Chris McLaughlin BBC Radio Scotland.



Post Edited (Sat 16 May 14:21)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Mon 18 May 20:24

We just need to draw a line under all of this and teams need to just accept their medicine and move on
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Mon 18 May 20:45

Quote:

dafc-chris1, Mon 18 May 20:24

We just need to draw a line under all of this and teams need to just accept their medicine and move on


You'd not be saying that if we were in Partick's situation or Stranraer.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte


Post Edited (Mon 18 May 20:46)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 18 May 21:00

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sat 16 May 14:16

Les Gray presented two options to the Premiership clubs.

The Anne Budge presentation will be for a temporary two year fix.

Rangers,Aberdeen and Celtic are amenable.

Source: Chris McLaughlin BBC Radio Scotland.


I think we can all safely bet our houses on this then. The big clubs will be able to convince the diddy ones somehow that this is in the best interests of Scottish football.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Mon 18 May 21:10

I would be rather annoyed if somehow ICT manage to get themselves promoted given their conduct.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 18 May 21:11

Quote:

AdamAntsParsStripe, Mon 18 May 20:45

Quote:

dafc-chris1, Mon 18 May 20:24

We just need to draw a line under all of this and teams need to just accept their medicine and move on


You'd not be saying that if we were in Partick's situation or Stranraer.


I bet there would be more than one holier-than-thou on here who'd tell us we'd have to show grace, class and accept it.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 18 May 21:19

Sometimes life isn't fair...
Suck it up and get on with it.



[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Mon 18 May 21:31

If we were in that position then we would get exactly what we deserved the fact of the matter is those teams weren't good enough over 75% of the league season and thats really all there is to say
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 18 May 21:32

Budge needs to take advice from Disney and "let it go"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Mon 18 May 21:39

If we vote for this I despair.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 18 May 22:06

Quote:

BigJPar, Mon 18 May 21:39

If we vote for this I despair.


Awwwww

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Row_ZZ  
Date:   Tue 19 May 09:12

There is 100% going to be some sort of reconstruction to save Hearts. It's always the same with the so called bigger clubs. But I won't complain anyway. The top flight should be a 16 team league.

I Know There's Gonna Be (Good Times)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 19 May 10:49

Quote:

Row_ZZ, Tue 19 May 09:12

There is 100% going to be some sort of reconstruction to save Hearts. It's always the same with the so called bigger clubs. But I won't complain anyway. The top flight should be a 16 team league.


None of us would complain if any increase to the top flight was permanent, but that wouldn't garner enough support from the Premiership clubs, as it would mean a smaller slice of the TV monies for them.

Like you, I'm convinced it will happen, but I don't know what stunt they'll pull to get the smaller clubs to vote for a temporary solution. Maybe offer them a slightly more equitable share of the cash from any future TV deal?



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Tue 19 May 10:54

I've been quite clear that I don't want reconstruction - I just don't think it's a good idea and what we have is OK.

However, for those of you who do want to see it, what is your take on temporary reconstruction? I get that you'd rather have a permanent change with a bigger top division, but if the choice is temporary change for one/two seasons or no change, which would you go for?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: chewie  
Date:   Tue 19 May 11:06

To be fair, i don't see what harm a 12-12-10-10 set up would do. It gives benefit of doubt to smaller teams that were still really close to staying up / getting promoted.

Jambos still go down -they were adrift.
Inverness stay down - they were miles behind anyway.
Thistle stay up, their relegation was dodgy.
Falkirk and Edinburgh City benefit by going up. Falkirk can argue they had a decent chance of winning league. Edinburgh were miles behind but still had a chance through play off.
Kelty and Brora get their reward for winning league.

The only ones who you could argue would benefit unfairly are Stranraer, who had virtually no chance of staying up. In the rest of the cases, the best placed teams go up instead of play offs.

From a Pars point of view, the Championship would be ace with Rovers, Falkirk, Jambos, Dundee etc in it.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Tue 19 May 11:08

They'll say it's for 2 years to be reviewed to decide if it's permanent (which is complete nonsense as all that means is that in 2 years it'll regress back)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Tue 19 May 11:26

Perm change or reconstruction can gtf. 16-18 team top flight would be great to freshen things up, but the mental 11-1 voting structure (Wtf is that all about?) to change any funds being spread out kills that dead in the water. Honestly think its going to take some clubs going to the wall for any change to happen

Post Edited (Tue 19 May 12:13)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Tue 19 May 11:36

Temp reconstruction even worse...
Save hearts now, get absolute carnage later
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 19 May 14:37

Quote:

Socks, Tue 19 May 10:54

I've been quite clear that I don't want reconstruction - I just don't think it's a good idea and what we have is OK.

However, for those of you who do want to see it, what is your take on temporary reconstruction? I get that you'd rather have a permanent change with a bigger top division, but if the choice is temporary change for one/two seasons or no change, which would you go for?


What we have is OK, but no more than that. The lower leagues are competitive, but the Premiership will never be any more than a two horse race - and it's not even been that since the original Rangers collapsed in 2012. Changing the number of clubs will make no difference to that.

Competition is better than meaningless games, which is what you would get in a larger league when mismatches are ever more apparent. Small leagues mean meeting the same opponents at least 4 times a season which devalues even the more attractive fixtures. It also means younger players are less likely to be given starts as managers prefer to go with experience when games are crucial.

Having said that, Scotland doesn't have enough clubs of a high enough standard to support a top flight of 18 or even 16 teams. I think Belgium has a model in which there are play offs at the end of the regular season for top, middle and bottom clubs. What I don't like about that is that a team finishing 2nd, 3rd or lower in the regular season could be crowned champions and similarly at the foot with the club finishing bottom in the regular season avoiding relegation. (Hearts might like this set up.) I don't know what the middle play off group play for - might be a Europa League place.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Tue 19 May 14:38)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 19 May 18:00

Good on former captain, Gary McKay, who has come out and said Hearts are in danger of becoming the laughing stock of Scottish football.

I fear he's a tad late......



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 19 May 21:00

No matter how many teams are in a league, the majority of clubs will end up mid table. Creating small leagues where most of the teams are either fighting for promotion or relegation might generate tabloid headlines like ‘Derby Decider’ or ‘Relegation Battle’ but does this ersatz drama based on play-off positions actually increase interest in the game? I say ersatz because once the dust settles most of the teams still end up in mid table.

It also creates a new form of ‘meaningless’ game. You might find your side has finished in second place after hammering your rivals 5-0 earlier in the season and finishing well ahead of them on points, only for the play offs to promote them and not you. All of the games you watched where your side gained points on your rival were retrospectively made redundant. Of course you did not know that at the time, so in a sense you were being deceived. You believed that if your team played better and finished higher than your rivals then you would be duly rewarded for this: you might not be. This is a false league, a hotchpotch between a league and a knockout. Like the camel: a horse designed by a committee

I can’t see that the four mini league system that exists in Scotland is helpful to the national game. The weaknesses in Scottish football are about more than league reconstruction for sure, but it might be a reasonable place to start.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 20 May 01:00

Democracy Gone Mad.

That was Hugh McIlvanney’s comment on how Scottish football was run in the 1960s, when a politburo headed by worthies from Queen of the South, Brechin and Stenhousemuir would decide the future of Scottish football. They picked the national team as well, which explains rather a lot. These butchers, bakers and candlestick makers have long since been replaced by executive managers, project managers and chief executives and they have, on far greater expenses no doubt, overseen the decline of our national game. Scottish football is a celebration of mediocrity; a mediocrity in the name of democracy where everyone finds their own level. And then sits tight.

Bob Crampsey once claimed that if most clubs played long enough they would eventually win something. He was wrong. 21 of the 42 senior clubs in Scotland have never won a senior trophy, not even a Cup in a good year. Stranraer, Forfar, Berwick Rangers and the like have an empty trophy cabinet, and more damningly, always will. No doubt they are reputable clubs with good people behind the scenes but, as John Lennon said to Blues singer George Melly in the Cavern Club around 1961, ‘You’re getting in the way, George. You’re a drag.’ Years later Melly agreed that Lennon was probably right. Yet Lennon always respected Melly as a blues singer.

In Scotland we don’t need four leagues. We only need one. We need to jettison clubs who are only making up the numbers. For convenience sake let’s call it the Scottish League. It comprises the best 16 teams in the country which fills 30 playing weeks of the football year. Most Scottish football supporters should have a team there they support in some form or other. We need no second division. We can have three regional leagues- Highland, Midland and Southern- whose winners would have automatic entry to the Scottish League. That prevents a closed shop and also stops the geographical and economic nonsense of Annan Athletic travelling up to play Brora Rangers- unless they both make the top division of course. If teams like Kelty Hearts can come through, so much the better.

GG Riva claimed Scotland would struggle to have a competitive league of 16 clubs yet in or own lifetimes 7 different teams have won the title. He then undermined his own argument by admitting it was a one horse race in any case. Do other European countries our size have a more competitive or better quality league? I doubt it. As for gaps in quality, do supporters dislike seeing their team hammer weak opposition? Not when I saw Bert Paton score his legendary goal in the 6-0 rout of Raith Rovers I didn’t. Did I stop watching the Pars after seeing Graham Fyfe of Rangers lead a 6-0 demolition of the Pars? No. I appreciated his skill on the day.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 20 May 01:28

Hearts have one of the bigger supports in Scottish football yet there are some who welcome their relegation to a lower division. How on earth is Scottish football stronger with Hearts in a lower division? Shadenfreude or Dog in the Manger attitudes demean us all.

Here are the clubs who have finished in the TOP FOUR positions in the top division since 1946-47, with the number of times they have achieved this. Probably too far back for some, but any club who could not offer some sort of challenge within that time frame is asking for favours rather than justice. Good bye buskers like Falkirk, Airdrie and Hamilton.

1. Rangers * 67
2. Celtic * 61
3. Aberdeen * 39
4. Hearts * 31
5. Hibs * 23
6. Dundee Utd * 22
7. Kilmarnock * 13
8. Motherwell * 10
9. Dundee * 6
10. Dunfermline 6
11. St. Johnstone 6
12. East Fife 4
13. Partick 3
14. St. Mirren 2
15. Inverness 2
16. Clyde 2
17, Raith Rovers 1
18. Third Lanark 1
19. Livingstone 1

* denotes winner of title

I don’t suppose Third Lanark will be in a position to claim a place, whilst East Fife, Clyde and Raith Rovers might feel they are not quite ready. Ross County have had less opportunity than others and since they have actually won a Cup are worthy of consideration. That makes a neat 16.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Wed 20 May 04:22

George Melly could probably be better described as a jazz singer rather than a blues singer. That said, he was, more than anything, an entertainer. They didn't call him "Good Time George" for nothing. He had a loyal but relatively small following.

The same could probably be said of the lesser lights of Scottish football. They entertain their following while pursuing little in the way of success.

Celtic and Rangers might be the big drawcards playing their popular hits just like John Lennon's Beatles, but let's not ignore the folksy lot who play the small venues to a tiny but enthusiastic following. They may not be fashionable, but where would we be without their contribution?

I hate all this talk about getting rid of clubs so as to create an elite "Scottish League".

Yes, a top league of 16 or 18 would be infinitely preferable to what we have now. But not as a stand-alone.

I don't want to see that come about at the expense of clubs like Stranraer or Brechin or Arboath or Stenhousemuir or anyone else who may not have won any silverware over the years. They still have a role to play in the Scottish game, whether that be finding and nurturing young talent or providing a transition to retirement for the older players.

Pure unadulterated greed was behind the break-up of the old Scottish league system. Here we are 22 years on looking at a structure that has been an abject failure for the majority of clubs.

The system needs fixing and the key to fixing it is to be found in a much fairer distribution of funds, not in the destruction of half the clubs.

First up on the agenda, bring an end to the 11-1 vote. It is an anachronism and patently unfair to all but two clubs. It is this that is stalling any meaningful progress in the Scottish game.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 20 May 06:25

Sammer, on a wee roll there with three consecutive posts, trying to solve the conundrum which is Scottish football. His solution? One league of 16 clubs with 3 regional leagues below that. Hmm.....

The likes of Berwick, Brechin and Co. may never have won a national cup competition, but they don't impact much on the bigger clubs and live within their means, whereas the Premiership would be well and truly screwed if/when TV monies dry up. The small clubs had a place in the game in the 60s and 70s, developing young players, giving them first team football and selling them on to First Division clubs, some of whom were sold on again to English clubs. Money trickled down the food chain. Nowadays, every aspiring footballer wants to sign for Celtic or Rangers, who often oblige and then release the vast majority a few years later. Smaller clubs have, by and large, lost out on an income source which helped them to compete. Now they're grudgingly thrown a few scraps from the TV pot.

Breaking up the old, two league system increased the gap between the haves and have nots, as did the decision to allow home clubs to keep their own gate money, which is what I based my assertion that a 16 team league would be even less competitive than the present 12 team Premiership. Instead of having 4 or 5 clubs who can't win the league but are in no danger of relegation, you'd have 8 or 9. The other problem is that the top clubs would only have 15 home games as opposed to the present 19 and some against smaller clubs with smaller travelling supports leading to a significant drop in revenue. I can't see them ever going for that.

The suggestion that it's somehow "not right" that Hearts may have to play in the Championship or that fans of other clubs are gloating is flawed. Football must always work as a meritocracy. Hearts were bottom when the league was called. Yes, they might have been able to scrap their way out of it in the remaining games so it's not exactly fair but what's the alternative? Relegate the Accies instead because Hearts are too big to go down.

They tried that with Therangers in 2012, but the fans weren't having it.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 20 May 08:38

What about the nuclear option?

An American style set up, new franchises representing cities / larger towns or conurbations. Fixed league and rosters from academies?

No mergers, etc entire thing dissolved and rebooted with different teams.

So (pinching from other teams names) it could be Lothian Lions vs Strathclyde Snapdragons

(would love to see the glory buses heading to Glasgow to shout on the (non bigotted / al inclusive and maybe less successful) Strathclyde Snapdragons
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 20 May 09:55

The US scenario is light years away from us financially - the money in their professional sports is on a different planet.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Wed 20 May 13:10

Fair warning - this is a long post and the second part contains a lot of data.

"In Scotland we don’t need four leagues. We only need one. We need to jettison clubs who are only making up the numbers. For convenience sake let’s call it the Scottish League. It comprises the best 16 teams in the country which fills 30 playing weeks of the football year. Most Scottish football supporters should have a team there they support in some form or other. We need no second division. We can have three regional leagues- Highland, Midland and Southern- whose winners would have automatic entry to the Scottish League. That prevents a closed shop and also stops the geographical and economic nonsense of Annan Athletic travelling up to play Brora Rangers- unless they both make the top division of course. If teams like Kelty Hearts can come through, so much the better."

With all respect, that is rot. Not only rot, but elitist arrogant nonsense. Only 16 clubs you say? So we would have been stuck in these regional leagues only a few years ago. If we are to "have a football team to support" while we're down in those leagues, who do you suggest? Because I wouldn't be supporting any of the top 16. Getting rid of clubs to do this is just obscene. What harm are Forfar doing to the game? Why should these lower League clubs be binned when some of our best players started off there. Where would Andy Robertson be if he hadn't been given a chance by Queens Park. Pure nonsense.

Its also interesting that its always fans of "bigger" clubs who suggest regional leagues; if Brechin or Annan or Peterhead want to play in a national league and are good enough to play nationally and can manage to not bankrupt themselves while.doing so, who the hell are the bigger clubs to say that they can no longer do that? It also ignores the geography of Scotland where you will either have anomalies such as Kelty playing in the Highland League and Cowdenbeath in the Midland League just to pick a possible random example. And to compound it all, just 30 match days - 15 at home - doesn't provide enough matchday revenue for clubs.

"GG Riva claimed Scotland would struggle to have a competitive league of 16 clubs yet in or own lifetimes 7 different teams have won the title. He then undermined his own argument by admitting it was a one horse race in any case. Do other European countries our size have a more competitive or better quality league? I doubt it. As for gaps in quality, do supporters dislike seeing their team hammer weak opposition? Not when I saw Bert Paton score his legendary goal in the 6-0 rout of Raith Rovers I didn’t. Did I stop watching the Pars after seeing Graham Fyfe of Rangers lead a 6-0 demolition of the Pars? No. I appreciated his skill on the day."

OK, you asked so here goes (warning - lota and lots of data):

Serbia, Pop: 8,744,858

Top division: 16 teams, 2 x each, 30 games.
No. of winners since 2000: Two (Red Star Belgrade, Patrizan Belgrade)

Denmark, Pop: 5,789,709

Top division: 14 teams, 2 x each then 6/8 split, 38/40 games. (Was 12/12 until 2016)
No. of winners since 2000: Six (Helfoge, FC Copenhagen, Brondby, AaB, Nordjaeland, Midtjylland)

Finland, Pop: 5,540,792

Top division: 12 teams, 3 x each, 33 games.
No. of winners since 2000: Seven (Haka, TamU, Inter, HJK, SJK, IFK, KuPS)

Slovakia, Pop: 5,460,615

Top division: 12 teams, 3 matches then 6/6 split, 38 games, then Europa League play-offs (4th, 5th, 6th, 7th) if Cup winner has already qualified for Europe.
No. of winners since 2000: Six (Inter, MSK, Artmedia, Slovan Bratislava, AS Trencin, Spartak Trnava)

Scotland, Pop: 5,463,300

Top division: 12 teams, 3 matches then 6/6 split.
No. of winners since 2000: Two (Celtic, Rangers)


Norway, Pop: 5,415,930

Top division: 16 teams, 2 x each, 30 matches.
No. of winners since 2000: Six (Rosenborg, Vålerenga, Brann Bergen, Stæbek, Molde, Stømgodset)

Rep of Ireland, Pop: 4,940,642

Top division: 10 teams, 4x each, 36 games, Summer league.
No. of winners since 2000: Eight (Bohemians, Shelborne, Cork City, Drogheda, Shamrock Rovers, Sligo, St Pat's, Dundalk)

Croatia, Pop: 4,106,953

Top division: 10 teams, 4x each, 36 matches.
No. of winners since 2000: Four (Hadjuk Split, NK Zagreb, Dinamo Zagreb, Rijeka)

So actually, of the countries similar in size there aren't that many with what you'd call "big leagues" and most of them have had multiple winners over the last 20 years. The advent and increased financial muscle of the Champions League has had a bigger impact. Look at the bigger nations, with bigger leagues and look at their recent history -

Germany, Pop: 83,871,995

Top division: 18 teams, 2x each, 34 matches.
No. of winners since 2000: Five (Bayern, Dortmund, Werder Bremen, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg) - last 10 titles were won by Bayern (8) or Dortmund (2).

Turkey, Pop: 84,422,510

Top division: 18 teams, 2x each, 34 matches.
No. of winners since 2000: Five (Galatasaray, Fenerbache, Besiktas, Buraspor) - Buraspor only won once and the "big three" have won the rest since 1984 when Trabzonspor won it.

France, Pop: 65,255,278

Top division: 20 teams, 2x each, 38 matches.
No. of winners since 2000: Eight (Monaco, Lyon (7 in a row), Bordeaux, Marseille, Lille, PSG, Nantes, Montpellier) - last 10 titles were won by PSG (6), Monaco, Lille and Montpellier.

Italy, Pop: 60,480,665

Top division: 20 teams, 2x each, 38 matches.
No. of winners since 2000: Two (AS Roma, Inter, AC Milan, Juventus) - last 10 titles have been won by Juventus (8), Inter and AC Milan (1 each)

England, Pop: 56,286,961

Top division: 20 teams, 2x each, 38 matches.
No. of winners since 2000: Five (Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Leicester)

Spain, Pop: 46,776,338

Top division: 20 teams, 2x each, 38 matches.
No. of winners since 2000: Two (Real Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Atletico Madrid) - last 10 seasons won by Barcelona (7), Real Madrid (2), Atletico Madrid (1).

Poland, Pop: 37,857,352

Top division: 16 teams, 2x each for 30 matches then 8/8 split for a total of 37.
No. of winners since 2000: Six (Wisla, Legia, Zaglebie, Lech Poznan, Slask, Plast Gliwiche)

Ukraine, Pop: 43,767,60

Top division: 12 teams, 3 matches then 6/6 split.
No. of winners since 2000: Two (Dinamo Kyiv, Shaktar)

The structure of the League isn't as important as it may appear.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 20 May 15:39

kudos for pulling it together

i think you can still have a competitive league, albeit it's won by the nations bigger / better teams when it's all done and dusted... so like all of these things, i'm not sure that one measure gives the wider picture?

how financially healthy is their leagues, how often do the other teams swap places and/or how often do they get close to the bigger teams, how often do those other teams win other competitions, e.g. cups

is there any correlation between, less teams that become more 'healthy' e.g. in terms of support in terms and the revenue or general interest in the game?
is there any correlation between more vibrant competitive leagues (albeit still dominated by the usual suspects) and the national teams success?

for me, there's a big difference between going to a half empty stadium to watch us play against a team that has a small support, to going to a mostly full stadium to watch a team that has a large support - even if neither of us are going to win the league
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Wed 20 May 15:46

If you want more competition then you are going to need to have teams representing larger population areas - eg Fife United with all 4 teams amalgamated. Yes you would get hold outs dead against it but if Fife beat Rangers and Celtic to win a trophy that would change many folks views. However, most folks wish to stick with tradition and their own club rather than change to compete
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 20 May 15:55

Fans don't want their club being incorporated into a larger localised entity.

A non starter IMO.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 20 May 15:57

The biggest difference in all of these leagues to the Scottish ones are the 2 main Glasgow teams. Due to Glasgow being in the centre of the religious biggetry the teams have for more fans than any other club. That way financially they can buy better players and as such have won our top division more times than anyone else. That has and will always be the way. TV companies know that therefore they provide good TV figures when they play each other. If they only play each other twice TV would not like it, therefore the top league structure couldn't allow that.

matt forsyth
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 20 May 16:06

I think most fans wouldn't initially but I'm sure some would.

Perhaps we could start with a county type cup over a summer. Said on here loads of times but always jealous of the county gaa stuff where most individual teams don't get much support, but the whole county gets behind the all Ireland
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 20 May 16:08

Kelty Par,

Thanks for taking the time to reply and also post about other European leagues. Norway’s 16 team league looks competitive but then Croatia with 10 teams has certainly produced good international players recently.

I don’t accept it’s elitist to have a top league so long as it’s open to everyone and not run as a cartel. At no point did I wish to eliminate other clubs or stop them playing competitively; I would be delighted if a club like Brechin could battle their way into a 16 team league. And if the Pars were poor enough to be relegated from a national league then that unfortunately is what should happen. But for all that a day out at Glebe Park is a very pleasant experience I cannot see how at present, with attendances hovering around 400 spectators, Brechin have a part to play in a national, as opposed to a regional league. Forfar could still blood players like Craig Brewster just as Alloa once did John White and Tommy Hutchison but entry to a national league would be earned, not granted by right.

What harm are the likes of Stenhousemuir and Montrose doing? No more than George Melly (a jazz singer, as Ozpar pointed out) was doing at the Cavern Club in 1961. It’s even possible Melly had a small influence on the Beatles music but he was cluttering up the stage and diluting the rock n roll audience with his trad jazz fans from Allerton. Rock became the mass music while Jazz retreated into a minority taste. In a similar way I think full time professional clubs playing to thousands of spectators have to maintain, or maybe even grow, their mass audience and they can’t do that effectively if tied to teams which consider 600 spectators a decent crowd.

I concede that no regionalisation process is ever entirely logical, but would expect boundaries to be made in the manner of great enterprises like the British Empire and the USSR: with a bent ruler and a keen sense of politics.

Regarding Hearts they can few complaints. But my point was that the 10 team set up has relegated clubs with big supports which I don’t think is healthy in a small country like Scotland. And I wasn’t serious about saying goodbye to Hamilton, even if their last cup final was a century ago: obviously any league reconstruction would be based on current performance. And as GG reminded us, allocation of monies is a bigger factor at the end of the day than league structure.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 20 May 16:18

Two leagues of 22 share gate money helping all the smaller clubs 4 up 4 down simples
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 20 May 16:46

Quote:

Buspasspar, Wed 20 May 16:18

Two leagues of 22 share gate money helping all the smaller clubs 4 up 4 down simples


Take 2 tablets and lie down, BPP.

You'll feel better in the morning. 🙂



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Wed 20 May 17:25

Quote:

Parahandy, Wed 20 May 15:46

If you want more competition then you are going to need to have teams representing larger population areas - eg Fife United with all 4 teams amalgamated. Yes you would get hold outs dead against it but if Fife beat Rangers and Celtic to win a trophy that would change many folks views. However, most folks wish to stick with tradition and their own club rather than change to compete


A Fife United would not be a major force even in the unlikely hypothetical situation that all the fans of the four Fife teams supported it.
In that scenario you'd be looking at 6000 max at its most optimistic figure but I'd say at least 50% of club supporters wouldn't support it in the first place so then you're looking at a few thousand fans attending on average for a long long time really.
Inverness Caley Thistle are an example where they really don't attract more fans despite the two City's teams amalgamating in the late 90's.
Financially as well, how much better off would a combined Fife team be as compared to Dunfermline just now?
I'd argue not very much when you look at the finances of our rivals.
Why would we even want to go down this road anyway?
Over 90% of our clubs have survived for over a century as they are and are important parts of their communities however big or small.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 20 May 18:12

Stop for a minute and think how much moaning would get done if Fife United got beat

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 20 May 18:45

Quote :-
Topic Originator: GG Riva like | nolike
Date: Wed 20 May 16:46

Take 2 tablets and lie down, BPP.

You'll feel better in the morning. 🙂

LOL GG

Aye think I've been in the sun too long today :)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 20 May 20:15

Couldn't support a Fife Utd. It'd end up being based in Glenrothes between a 70s industrial estate and a roundabout.

As for Hearts, the whole argument that they should stay in the Premiership because of their standing in Scottish football is laughable. If that's the case then we should give up now and just give league positions based on crowds (would mean a promotion for us!).

Scotland could and should support bigger leagues but we also need to look at funding distribution. A strong Old Firm buying up the best players from teams beneath them benefits noone. It would actually be good for Celtic and Rangers to have greater competition. There's no point walking the league to then get pumped in the Champions League.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Wed 20 May 21:07

Fife United though would attract fans from out with the current 4 clubs as well though.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 20 May 22:11

The very thought makes me boak.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 20 May 22:37

Quote:

Parahandy, Wed 20 May 21:07

Fife United though would attract fans from out with the current 4 clubs as well though.


Unlikely. We've probably got a bigger support than all the other Fife teams put together. Would you still feel a strong affiliation with a club playing in a town you didn't live in or have any distinct links to?

Fife, like much of Scotland is filled with Old Firm fans.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Wed 20 May 22:48

Normally every single post Sammer has on this site is pure gold, but I can't agree with his post at 1am today. Every club in Scotland has a right to exist, if anything the clubs like Forfar, Arbroath and Montrose are better run that some top flight clubs. I think the league set up is pretty good, but I would quite like to see promotion and relegation opened up at the bottom of the fourth tier with two up two down to allow the clubs in the pyramid to progress
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 20 May 23:33

Red Star,

I repeat that I want the clubs like Alloa, Forfar, Brechin and Queen of the South to exist and maybe even thrive. If they are good enough to make the national league of 16 then they will be a welcome addition. Outside of that they can play in a regional set up.

My issue is that we have ersatz senior clubs who have neither the wherewithal nor the ambition to compete credibly within a professional league but who skew the way in which the existing leagues are run. I am, like you as I suspect from your name tag and various posts, a socialist at heart but that does not mean levelling down the strong to the level of the weak.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Thu 21 May 00:54

Imagine travelling to Glenrothes to watch some abomination franchise Fife United? Christ if anything like that happened I'd just spend my money on a BT sports sub and continue watching the Malaga games on YouTube with their La Liga deal. Awful awful idea
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Thu 21 May 05:25

Fife United is a non starter, whatever you chose to call it makes no difference there is no chance that all of the support in the county would transfer their support to a new hybrid club
If even 50% decided to travel to anywhere other than Dunfermline then the gate would actually drop

Any proposal which leads to a bigger top league will never garner enough support due to Sky insistent on x 4 glasgow derbies

The top league will only be one stronger once the better supported clubs rise again (and Aberdeen apart) the clubs are from the central belt where most of the population is

A top league where you have the listed below clubs is the most sensible league where teams are generating larger crowds (and therefore more finance) would be more attractive to Sky and therefore advertisers

Celtic
Rangers
Dundee
Dundee Utd
Aberdeen
Hearts
Hibs
Motherwell
Dunfermline
Falkirk
St Mirren
Morton
Partick
St Johnston
Morton

Continuous derby games, reduced travel, larger gates
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Thu 21 May 08:12

"Regarding Hearts they can few complaints. But my point was that the 10 team set up has relegated clubs with big supports which I don’t think is healthy in a small country like Scotland."

How many fans or how 'big' a club is has no, and shouldn't have any, bearing on what league they play in. The fact that Hearts, now twice, Hibs, Dundee and Dundee Utd have all been relegated in recent season shows that outwith the Glasgow 2 we have a fairly competitive league where small well run clubs, St Johnston, Hamilton, Alloa, Arbroath, can punch well above their weight. Which imo IS healthy for our league.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Thu 21 May 08:33

"I repeat that I want the clubs like Alloa, Forfar, Brechin and Queen of the South to exist and maybe even thrive. If they are good enough to make the national league of 16 then they will be a welcome addition. Outside of that they can play in a regional set up.

My issue is that we have ersatz senior clubs who have neither the wherewithal nor the ambition to compete credibly within a professional league but who skew the way in which the existing leagues are run. I am, like you as I suspect from your name tag and various posts, a socialist at heart but that does not mean levelling down the strong to the level of the weak."

1. Who are you to say these clubs should play regional when they are happy and have been happy for decades to play nationally? What benefit does regional football give to these clubs? People might think "more derbies" but who would e.g. Queen of the South be playing? Gretna 2008, Annan, Stranraer and... Don't you think Queen of the South benefit from the exposure and "prestige" of being in a national league? Don't they benefit from supports from Dunfermline, the Dundee clubs, Hearts next season visiting Palmerston? Don't the club have a better chance attracting and maintaining fans by being in a league with those clubs than jobbing about part time?

2. If you have one League of professional clubs and the next level down is essentially semi-pro and regional then you I'm effect end up with what you claim you don't want - a closed shop. Any team gaining promotion will be woefully inadequate in terms of players, finance, infrastructure, experience... it would be nearly impossible for any semi pro club to get into this new top flight and survive. Going the other way, as long as the relegated team can keep most of their players (and they are happy playing in a regional set up having been playing nationally) then they will be overwhelmingly favourites to come back up. Unless a small club had a golden generation of players who they could keep at the club despite only being a semi pro regional club, or a Ferguson type manager or a sugar daddy, you'll have the same 16 clubs almost every year with very little movement. It wouldn't be long before the clubs did demand a closed shop or a play off because the drop from the national league to the regionals would be too big.

3. What do you mean by "compete credibly in a professional league"? Arbroath are part time but well above us in the table and above the likes of Partick, Falkirk, Raith and Airdrie. Cove with wealthy backers will look to make an impact in League One next season. Part time clubs like Cowdenbeath, Dumbarton and Brechin (although admittedly the latter aren't a good example) have all been Championship clubs in recent memory and the former two did well, as did Raith who employed a hybrid model. Most football fans would not include Ayr Utd and Queen of the South in a top 16 clubs of Scotland list but they have both qualified for the Premiership play offs and reached a cup final in recent memory. Seems to me that many clubs are competing credibly.

4. In what way are these clubs "skew[ing] the way in which existing leagues are run"? Whst does that mean? How does Brechin or Annan or Montrose skew the Premiership? How does their existence affect the top clubs? Other than taking a minuscule amount of TV money and taking part in the cups, I'm not seeing how they are doing anything that changes the make up of our game at all.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Thu 21 May 09:19

Those against Fife United though can be seen as the dinosaurs. Unhappy re the present set up and Old Firm dominance but not willing to do anything radical enough to change things. A different mind set would evolve for many though if a genuine Fife team was built - a much wider catchment with a new generation of fans - the luddites would be like those few Caley and Thistle fans chuntering away about the old days
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 21 May 09:38

Why not conduct a poll ?

The dinosaurs and Luddites v the fantasist dreamers !!!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 21 May 10:59

I think the issue is we talk about county teams in the context of the existing set up.
If there was no old firm, but a team that represented Glasgow, then would that have the same draw for all the glory buses? Would that mean that the kids of those glory bussers would also support Glasgow United... Or if it was Fife v Glasgow, would more people think that Fife represents me and my area?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 21 May 12:33

Perhaps consider Fife has one ice hockey team. Where do most of their fans come from?

Assuming a central base like Glenrothes, would fans from Dunfermline, Kirkcaldy, Cowdenbeath, St Andrews etc really travel 15+ miles to watch a team in another town? Okay, plenty from Fife do the same to watch the OF but a Fife Utd? ICT is like comparing apples and oranges. They were two clubs in the same town. We're talking 4 professional clubs across a whole region.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Thu 21 May 19:24

I haven’t really been following this thread – I think we (and I) have other things to worry about right now – but elsewhere I was pointed in this direction.

I’ll make a few comments. (I have no solutions, however).

Firstly, what are we trying to achieve? A better international team? More success “in Europe”? A bigger industry? Or just juggling the distribution of income? And does any proposal achieve its goal?

In particular - how would it affect my club over the next 20 years? How much money will we make? How much could we lose? What will crowds be like? How far will I have to travel? How much chance will my team have of winning a trophy? If I were on the BoD I’d be saying “show me the numbers!”

We have had numerous attempt at reconstruction in my life-time and I’m not convinced that they have made things better. For example, I think the formation of the SPL was a bad move, if not a disaster for Scottish Football.

The idea seemed to be to create an elite of 10-12 teams, which would be bigger and better – bigger crowds, bigger TV deal, better (all-seater) stadia. I think the burgers and Bovril were to be better as well.

But if you weren’t in the elite – tough. You were encouraged to spend money you didn’t have on unsustainable wages and high maintenance stadia that would sit empty most of the year in order to gain access.

Such an argument is basically over slicing of the same cake in slightly different ways – there will be winners and losers and it’s great if you are a winner, less so if you are a loser. For it to be worthwhile, you need the slices to be much larger (and hence much smaller for others) or have a much larger cake.

One particular issue seems to be that whilst there is a large gap between (potential) fanbase of the largest club and the 6th largest club, say, there is not much of a gap between the 6th and the 20th.

It is not that hard to imagine a club, with the correct mix of finance, skill, ability and luck to reach a top 12, and stay there for a lengthy period, given access to the relative riches. Falkirk and Partick and Dundee could do that. Or, perish the thought, Livi or Hamilton or Ross County. The SFL was a closed shop for years – if you happened to be in the league due to an accident of history, then in it you stayed. The population shifts from city centres to new towns and suburbs went unrecognised. Safety bred complacency. You don’t want to repeat that mistake.

In other words – there is no obvious and fair way of top-slicing a top 10 or 12 or even 16 such that it doesn’t exclude good and deserving clubs except by merit on the park. But you need some turnover to allow the others their chance and for ambitious clubs to get on. But (and here’s the rub) too much turnover may breed insecurity and safety-first football. Where to strike the balance? If you are not in the top flight you will argue for 4 up 4 down until such times as you are in the top flight, when suddenly you want 1 up 1 down at most.

A second issue is what one might call the Motherwell/Montrose paradox. (Or possibly the HMV problem).

I wasn’t a great record buyer (grandad) but I know people who were, and they bemoaned the loss of record shops from the high street (whilst simultaneously buying all their music online from Amazon or whoever). People say they want something, but may not actually support it in practice.

I enjoyed our trip to Borehamwood. I think most fans who went did. It was one of the best things about being a Pars fan over the last few seasons. I would relish a trip to Montrose – it would be a good day out, and a possible win. Many “core” fans might agree. Most seem to want larger divisions with less repetition. But the board would rather we play Motherwell 4 times a season. In other words, whilst fans say they want more variety, the finances may say we need less of it. And whilst season-ticket holders may be loyal customers, the board needs to attract the transient fan. If we have a 30 game season, we have 3 fewer home games. What’s that - £150k in lost income? How do we make that up? Maybe we don’t and the players will have to take a 15% pay cut (or more).

Of course, you could always have another cup competition to make up the numbers – such as a “Spring Cup” – although I think that wasn’t a success. Management often treat such competitions as an annoyance. We will have a beefed up Fife Cup due to the changes in Junior football – I’m a fan, it offers an intermediate competition between reserve and first team football and it’s not entirely meaningless but again, management may not share my view

As for regionalisation – it makes sense – at some level. There’s little point having a national division seven where Orkney plays Tarff Rovers one week and Eyemouth Utd the next. (I know Tarff don’t exist any more). It’s nice to play your local rivals (and there is a climate emergency, apparently) so the days of travelling vast distances may be gone. But we don’t want a Glasgow League and an Edinburgh league, with the winners playing off for the national title.

As for the pyramid – one of the most welcome developments in the last 10 years (IMO) – it allows a refresh, and new blood. But it creates difficulties. Rumour had it that Brora didn’t fancy winning the play-off a few years ago, as they thought they faced a combination of long journeys and getting beat any other week. I’m not sure how sustainable their model is.

Franchises – a no for me. But, it strikes me that we have something similar already. To what extent is Stranraer a central belt team who plays in Stranraer? And Livi is essentially one. As is Caledonian Braves, I would have thought.

Mergers. I used to have a theory that the fans would only vote for something if they were virtually guaranteed to be able to compete at a higher level – so for Inverness it meant league football (or indeed, top-flight football); for Dundee (and this nearly happened a few years ago) it would mean European football most years, for Hibs and Hearts a team able to challenge for the title. I’m not sure this conjecture holds (despite some of today’s clubs having started as mergers - Ayr United and Aberdeen I think)

Finally – the elephant in the room. Celtic and Rangers. Their dominance may be a bad thing. We are told (and it may well be true) that any TV deal is contingent on having 95 Celtic Rangers clashes per season. I suspect people elsewhere view it as a bit of a freak-show – secretly hoping for some controversy. That can’t be healthy either, but I’m not sure what to do about it.



Post Edited (Thu 21 May 19:32)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Tue 26 May 19:26

Ann Budge doing her best Theresa May impression, come back with the same plan!!

get this in the bin once and for all!

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/club-update-1-2-3

the proposal itself...

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5636897/hearts-spfl-reconstruction-proposal-in-full/?utm_source=whatsapp&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebarweb

a couple of lines
"“This is not the time to be expelling one of the League’s biggest and best resourced Clubs from the Premiership.“
“In short, the Premiership needs Hearts more than the Championship does.”



Post Edited (Tue 26 May 20:00)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Tue 26 May 21:31

Breathtaking arrogance from Budge and Hearts. Let's reconstruct the League to save our asses and the absolute mess I've made of running the club over the last couple of years instead of trying to find a long term solution for the good of Scottish Football.

Awight Pat!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Tue 26 May 21:48

Brilliant post from McCaig's Tower there.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: 1985Par  
Date:   Tue 26 May 21:50

Bin the whole thing till next March and pick up where we left off. The 2019/20 season becomes the 2019/20/21 season in light of a global pandemic.

May not be contractually or commercially viable but show me an option that is.

Current plans seem to be paving the way for 2 half-assed, botched-up seasons instead of one elongated one.



Post Edited (Tue 26 May 21:55)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 26 May 22:42

They won't win many friends with the tone of that statement. Arrogant sevco wannabes

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Wed 27 May 01:03

<<Firstly, what are we trying to achieve? A better international team? More success “in Europe”? A bigger industry? Or just juggling the distribution of income? And does any proposal achieve its goal?>>


I really hate the term "industry" being applied to a sport. It takes away the fundamental reasoning behind the game and replaces it with thinking that is based purely on economics.

Yes, of course, right now the game is under serious economic threat, but I would argue that it was the decision to invite TV money into the game that makes its survival just now so tenuous.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 27 May 06:49

After nine weeks of debate we will learn today if 14-14-14 is acceptable for the next two years.

It could be many years till such an opportunity arises again.

The voting in the Premiership has to be 9-3, as Brian McLachlan BBC Radio Scotland has outlined.

There is support for the proposal among Championship.League 1 and 2 clubs.

Only St Mirren of the "usual suspects" are publicly against with Hamilton Accies and Ross County suggesting they are in favour.

The treatment of Hearts,Partick Th,Falkirk,Stranraer,Edinburgh City and Kelty Hearts has been wretched but this resolves it.

Furthermore,League 1 and 2 clubs are likely to be mothballed but Falkirk and Partick Th cannot go down that road.

In a normal season we could look forward to an average Gate well over 5000 given the make up of the new Division.It would be easier to get promotion then to stay in the top tier.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Wed 27 May 08:07

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8359477/Scottish-Championship-clubs-set-REJECT-proposal-Hearts-owner-Ann-Budge-three-leagues-14.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top

oops....
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 27 May 08:24

I think this has a good chance of going ahead, but nobody should be kidded that it's anything other than a ploy to keep Hearts in the Premiership and ICT will get their reward for all their recent posturing and spin.

What gives the game away is the admission that this is just a temporary 'fix.' In two years time, we'll almost certainly go back to the status quo.

It's a self preservation society......



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Wed 27 May 08:36

"I think this has a good chance of going ahead, but nobody should be kidded that it's anything other than a ploy to keep Hearts in the Premiership and ICT will get their reward for all their recent posturing and spin.

What gives the game away is the admission that this is just a temporary 'fix.' In two years time, we'll almost certainly go back to the status quo."

This is the whole reason it shouldn't happen. As for ICT, they can ram it too.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Wed 27 May 08:54

Quote:

Rusty Shackleford, Tue 26 May 21:48

Brilliant post from McCaig's Tower there.


^^^ I second that.

DunfyDave
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 27 May 09:00

If the league is foolish enough to accept this for two years then shame on them.

And welcome to the world slowest car crash and the carnage that will be returning it back to the status quo

Outrageous!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Wed 27 May 09:13

Quote:

Sliema Par, Wed 27 May 06:49

After nine weeks of debate we will learn today if 14-14-14 is acceptable for the next two years.

It could be many years till such an opportunity arises again.

The voting in the Premiership has to be 9-3, as Brian McLachlan BBC Radio Scotland has outlined.

There is support for the proposal among Championship.League 1 and 2 clubs.

Only St Mirren of the "usual suspects" are publicly against with Hamilton Accies and Ross County suggesting they are in favour.

The treatment of Hearts,Partick Th,Falkirk,Stranraer,Edinburgh City and Kelty Hearts has been wretched but this resolves it.

Furthermore,League 1 and 2 clubs are likely to be mothballed but Falkirk and Partick Th cannot go down that road.

In a normal season we could look forward to an average Gate well over 5000 given the make up of the new Division.It would be easier to get promotion then to stay in the top tier.


I'm not too sure how this resolves the Kelty and Brora situation.
14-14-14 means neither join the league.

The second proposal of 16 in the third tier means an 11-1 vote rather than 9-3 in the Premier League.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Wed 27 May 09:27

its an 11-1 vote in the Premier League regardless of Kelty and Brora as the prize money distribution will change.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 27 May 09:50

It's all about saving Hearts from relegation. The sooner that other chairmen get this the better. If it had been St Mirren, Ross County, Hamilton, St Johnstone or Livingston there would be no reconstruction. Anyone else agree with me.

matt forsyth
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 27 May 10:40

When I was at school I hated Maths.

Yet there were times I came to the correct answer but with the wrong workings.

That is what has happened here.

Ann Budge has been undeniably brazen in putting forward her proposal.

Yet this is the best chance in three long decades to sort the League Structure.

Have no doubt it will benefit Dunfermline.

Brian McLachlin said a 9-3 Premiership vote was necessary as it would not affect the Articles Of Association in the way 14-14-16 would.

The SPFL will save on the Hearts parachute payment.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 27 May 10:53

if it was permanent and by accident we stumbled upon a solution that would be to the benefit of scottish football then i'd give you that...

but if it's temporary then it's an absolute disgrace and in 2 yrs time will be a disaster

curious to know your thoughts on how it will help dunfermline mind you?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Wed 27 May 10:54

No, it's a chance to save Hearts and then put the wee clubs back in their box in 2 years' time. I hope they tell her to GTF.

She believes that we should only have 20-22 professional clubs in Scotland but suddenly wants 28 in the top 2 leagues?

What's her process for getting back to the current structure? It would seem to me to involve relegating 7 sides from the Championship the season after next. Will Hearts help fund the parachute payments for those clubs?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 27 May 11:00

I think it's more than 7 relegations from championship in 2 years time

If we have 3 promotions from a 14 team league... Then it will be 9 relegations, ie, teams in position 1,2&3 promoted to spl, teams in position 4 and 5 stay in championship and other 9 teams relegated

Also in that scenario, the 5 teams coming down from the championship will have had increased revenue so further disadvantaging the remaining teams

Post Edited (Wed 27 May 11:21)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 27 May 11:28

We are all forgetting one thing.

This will likely be a success and you don't mend anything which works.Michael Stewart has argued that for weeks.

Dunfermline would have far more chance of being promoted and then staying in the top tier.

As for quoting a tired English Tory newspaper,words fail me.

I respectfully suggest you buy a Scottish Quality newspaper.Both "The Scotsman" or "The Herald" have incisive articles and analysis.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Wed 27 May 11:38

Quote:

Sliema Par, Wed 27 May 11:28

We are all forgetting one thing.

This will likely be a success and you don't mend anything which works.Michael Stewart has argued that for weeks.

Dunfermline would have far more chance of being promoted and then staying in the top tier.

As for quoting a tired English Tory newspaper,words fail me.

I respectfully suggest you buy a Scottish Quality newspaper.Both "The Scotsman" or "The Herald" have incisive articles and analysis.


You lost me with your last paragraph.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 27 May 11:51

GJS93 had highlighted an article in the "Daily Mail".
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: King Kozma  
Date:   Wed 27 May 12:55

The SPFL would be better first establishing which clubs would find it viable to play behind closed doors and taking it from there.

Hearts would get a lot more sympathy from other clubs, if it became clear that they and a few other Championship clubs didn't have a league to play in next season.

A temporary expanded top flight of the clubs willing to play, would seem sensible.

How you sort of who's in which league when the other clubs come out of hibernation I have no idea.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Wed 27 May 13:03

"We are all forgetting one thing.

This will likely be a success and you don't mend anything which works.Michael Stewart has argued that for weeks.

Dunfermline would have far more chance of being promoted and then staying in the top tier.

As for quoting a tired English Tory newspaper,words fail me.

I respectfully suggest you buy a Scottish Quality newspaper.Both "The Scotsman" or "The Herald" have incisive articles and analysis."

1, How will it be a success? Other than Michael Stewart or someone else on sportsound said so. The only thing wrong with the current league set up, imo, is the money distribution.
2, How would Dunfermline have more chance of staying up when other teams will have been there and have benefitted from the unfair money distribution, or will have received a parachute paymnet.
3, The Scotsman is an awful rag and the Herald isn't much better.

And your forgetting one thing, ALL this is being done to benefit Hearts. No one else.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 27 May 13:10

So what are the parameters and KPIs for success?

Are there metrics which are measurable and if pass certain criteria mean it will stick, or will tv companies and the bigger clubs decide they would rather have 4 OF games again?

I don't really give a rats erse what Michael Stewart says, i prefer to tune into everybody's radio WIIFM (what's in it for me) and use that to determine motivation and how each team will act in the future... And please don't have the wool pulled over your eyes, if it's a temporary restructure, it will regress back...

So i say again, if this goes through then we're all going to watch the worlds slowest car crash - although the realisation of how we will regress back to current set up (once hearts and other teams are comfortably safe) will be fun at least

Post Edited (Wed 27 May 13:11)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Wed 27 May 14:33

"I respectfully suggest you buy a Scottish Quality newspaper"

i don't buy any papers and "respectfully" ill pass on that suggestion.

details of the changes needed to the distribution model

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premiership/5638350/premiership-hearts-spfl-reconstruction-plan-reality/



Post Edited (Wed 27 May 14:51)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Wed 27 May 15:49

You're quite unique, Sliema.

Possibly the only poster I know that could 100% agree with someone and still manage to rub them up the wrong way.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 27 May 16:18

That was not my intention and if I have inadvertently antagonised anyone,I unreservedly apologise.

I just felt that "The Herald" and "Scotsman" today both carry objective detail and analysis.

I am smiling at the prospect of multiple games played at one large stadium over a weekend, as that was a Maltese idea.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Wed 27 May 16:21

This split would in no way benefit most current championship and L1/L2 teams. You either have a perm reconstruction or Budge and the other members of the self preservation society can stick their heads back up their erses
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Wed 27 May 16:23

When are we likely to get a decision on these ideas?



[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 27 May 16:24

BBC Radio Scotland believe it could be imminent.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Wed 27 May 17:01

No decision today. Separate meetings to be held with the teams in each league starting with the Premiership on Monday.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 27 May 17:10

King Kozma in a post at 1255pm may be nearer the truth than some would have thought.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Wed 27 May 18:00

The clubs below the top league should add an addendum to the proposal that in 2 years another reconstruction will be considered and subject to vote - see how the self preservation league like a bit of c*** teasing with no genuine intent behind it


[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 27 May 18:17

What a fekin cuffuffel to save a club who have been rank rotten this season
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Wed 27 May 18:57

This surely has to fail. What's the point, apart from saving hearts?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Wed 27 May 19:28

This is an easy no
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 27 May 20:59

There was a club a few years back. They said the Premier League wouldn't survive without them as they were such a big club. Whatever happened to them?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 28 May 12:06

it might not even reach the stage of being voted on

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5641198/hearts-ann-budge-league-reconstruction-vote/

"But SunSport understands the early signs are Budge is struggling to gain enough support across ANY of the leagues.
If SPFL feedback tells the Jambos chief her bid is doomed to fail, a formal resolution is unlikely to be put forward"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: M-PAR  
Date:   Thu 28 May 12:26

I just don’t understand why she is insisting on this being temporary. If it was a permanent change then I think a lot more clubs would back it.

COYP!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Thu 28 May 12:38

Quote:

M-PAR, Thu 28 May 12:26

I just don’t understand why she is insisting on this being temporary. If it was a permanent change then I think a lot more clubs would back it.


As a last throw of the dice by Budge it’s pretty hamfisted (and arrogant)


[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 28 May 13:09

Quote:

M-PAR, Thu 28 May 12:26

I just don’t understand why she is insisting on this being temporary. If it was a permanent change then I think a lot more clubs would back it.


Because the bigger teams don't want this and as such it'll not be permanent - even if they try the line, let's test it for a couple off years and vote again afterwards

I know fans can often be gullible because of their loyalty and support, but surely they don't think we can't see this for what it really is!?!?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 28 May 13:27

Perhaps the real question should be "Which clubs can survive without fans in the stadium" (assuming this is the proposal). For clubs like us this would be a big issue.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Thu 28 May 13:28

Surely as Hearts are due to be relegated, with Dundee Utd taking their place. She should stop having this plan to save her team. As we do not know what is going to happen next season and which teams will fail before and during the season. Why do we not have 2 leagues. That way if a team closes down, the leagues using a home and away once will be carry on. Why do I say this, well imagine a league with 10 at the and 3 drop out. Whereas a league with 20 or 22 and 3 or 4 drop out there will still be enough teams to play out the season. Are you reading this Budge, your beloved Hearts would be saved from relegation.

matt forsyth
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 28 May 13:35

Quote:

jake89, Thu 28 May 13:27

Perhaps the real question should be "Which clubs can survive without fans in the stadium" (assuming this is the proposal). For clubs like us this would be a big issue.


Exactly, all energy from everyone should be focused on that and only that.

how will we get football to and running again? what will match days look like? how will clubs survive if its 2021 before we can have crowds again? What other revenue streams are there? How will lower division clubs afford to film and steam games? What can tv broadcasters do? Etc etc

Every moment wasted on budges plan is potentially another nail in the coffin for everyone.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 28 May 13:41

If (God forbid) any team(s) were to go under during the league campaign then there is a problem with how to adjust points, goals for and against etc. for the other clubs.

Declaring all previous results null and void could have an effect on league placings.

If a club were to fail near the end of the season the above could alter relegation places.

Imagine if Hearts were affected ..............................................

"Perhaps the real question should be "Which clubs can survive without fans in the stadium" (assuming this is the proposal).

That is the real issue, rather than the repositioning of the Titanic deckchairs exercise which is proposed.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Thu 28 May 13:46

"Perhaps the real question should be "Which clubs can survive without fans in the stadium" (assuming this is the proposal). For clubs like us this would be a big issue."

Outwith Celtic, is there one?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Thu 28 May 13:49

"Declaring all previous results null and void could have an effect on league placings.

If a club were to fail near the end of the season the above could alter relegation places."

Why would you need to do that? The league is finished.
Another thought tho, if a premier team did go bust would ICT be promoted and Hearts still relegated? That was the precedent set in 2012 with Dundee?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 28 May 13:56

The scenario above was based on a club folding during the season - the league is not finished at that juncture.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Thu 28 May 14:25

"In short, the Premiership needs Hearts more than the Championship does. The Championship needs Partick Thistle more than the lower Leagues do.

“Let’s focus on dealing with the problem of saving Scottish Football from a position, which plays to our strengths and minimizes our weaknesses."


Somebody needs to tell Budge to stop talking out loud...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Thu 28 May 14:29

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52836158


Hearts turn down takeover bid
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 28 May 14:31

Quote:

Lambo1885, Thu 28 May 13:46

"Perhaps the real question should be "Which clubs can survive without fans in the stadium" (assuming this is the proposal). For clubs like us this would be a big issue."

Outwith Celtic, is there one?


I'd think a club that regularly pays squad players 10k a week would need fans in their stadium?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Thu 28 May 15:15

"The scenario above was based on a club folding during the season - the league is not finished at that juncture."

Apologies, misread that.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 28 May 17:16

No worries.

The uncertain future brings the survival of clubs into focus.

Let's hope all survive.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 28 May 19:58

https://twitter.com/ScotlandSky/status/1266047895809282048

wow!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Thu 28 May 21:04

Budge seems to be losing the plot.
Maybe needs to take a step back before she has a melt down.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Thu 28 May 21:08

Quote:

BigJPar, Thu 28 May 21:04

Budge seems to be losing the plot.
Maybe needs to take a step back before she has a melt down.


Going by that video her puss already melted


[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 28 May 23:46

Budge never had it in the first place. Interesting that another American is interested in investing in a Scottish team. Seems a bizarre investment.

For teams surviving without fans in the stadium - fair few clubs seem to do alright despite having very small crowds.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Fri 29 May 10:05

The use of the word "temporary" in historic negotiations on league reconstruction tells you that they are NOT serious about the negotiations on league reconstruction.

It is a clear red flag that they are pre-warning of its imminent failure sometime in the future but are still planning to go through with it.

They could easily have left the word "temporary" out of the wording altogether and still hatch their evil plans in two years and very little could be done to stop them.

Scottish football needs a revolution in thought and planning and the word "temporary" is weak.

DunfyDave
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 29 May 11:43

how things change....

April 9th
"ANN BUDGE admits Hearts will just have to accept it if fellow SPFL clubs decide to relegate them"
"“If everything is talked about and that is what the community of football clubs believe is right, I’m not going to fight it to the death.
“If we have to deal with relegation we will deal with relegation"

May 29th
"But Ann Budge has warned she’s ready to KEEP Scottish football in lockdown if Hearts end up in the Championship"
“I am DESPERATE for a decision. As if there weren’t enough uncertainties about.
“Some people will say, ‘Just give up then’. But that takes us full circle to me saying, ‘I’m not giving up because this is wrong’.
“If it unfortunately becomes clear we will be starting the season in the Championship I don’t have any choice but to go ahead with a legal battle.”

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5645259/hearts-chief-budge-scottish-football-lockdown/
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Fri 29 May 12:12

Can the rest of the league not vote to expel Hearts. She seems to be a very bitter woman that cannot understand that her team finished bottom of the league. Why not make a league of 1. Especially for Hearts.

matt forsyth
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Fri 29 May 12:22

So not only will they win the league... But they'll also be relegated....
I like it... It's brilliant 😏



[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 29 May 13:22

Maybe staying in the premier is part of the sell on clause?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 29 May 13:41

I doubt if the SPFL would expel the best supported club outside the Glasgow duo - they haven't quite reached the level ........ yet.

That's the real reason Hearts might have an audience, if it were Hamilton (for example) this debate would never have gone beyond the preliminary round.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 29 May 16:27

Is it really a case of clubs deciding to expel them? Clubs are deciding on a solution that affects all Scottish teams. Ann Budge needs to get over herself and realise it's not all about Hearts.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 31 May 07:53

If there is no League Reconstruction and Leagues 1 and 2 are mothballed; what do Falkirk and Partick Thistle do?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sun 31 May 11:13

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sun 31 May 07:53

If there is no League Reconstruction and Leagues 1 and 2 are mothballed; what do Falkirk and Partick Thistle do?


Same as all the other league 1 and 2 clubs.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 31 May 13:00

Quote:

Lambo1885, Sun 31 May 11:13

Quote:

Sliema Par, Sun 31 May 07:53

If there is no League Reconstruction and Leagues 1 and 2 are mothballed; what do Falkirk and Partick Thistle do?


Same as all the other league 1 and 2 clubs.


This presupposes that all Premiership and Championship clubs survive. Even then, it's not inconceivable that the 10 Championship clubs would be prepared to accommodate them. Being cynical, both bring above average supports to away games and would therefore be a welcome addition when fans are allowed back.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 31 May 13:08

Most League 1 and 2 clubs currently pay for their Manager and Groundsman.

Falkirk and Partick Th are much bigger outfits.

I think the Championship WOULD accommodate them in a heartbeat.

It is called League Reconstruction.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 31 May 17:59

silema,

if it was proper, permanent, thought out reconstruction that covers all aspects of the game, where the sole purpose is to strategically consider where we need to be regarding leagues, competitions, revenue streams, distribution of wealth, supporters involvement, player and national team development etc, then i think you'd be pushing on an open door.

however, please don't confuse the above with the temporary, rushed reconstruction who's only ambition is to keep hearts in the SPL and apart from that tactical outcome will not address the real underlying issues and even worse, will introduce the carnage that will be regressing back to the current set up.

if we want football to survive, rather than going round the houses and burning even more unnecessary calories on what is being (re)proposed, we need to focus on how we can start up fitba again. focus on when we start up, what that will look like, what revenue streams we can collectively tap into etc. celtic (i think) recently asked for a fixture list and timescales to be published and (if they did) then they're right - we need to allow our clubs the time to start proper planning for the restart, knowing when and what that will look like...

once we've got the immediate short term horizon sorted, we can shift our thoughts restructure, proper restructure, thought out restructure that is collaborative and clearly driven by the right motives ...and we can finish season 21/22 knowing what the future will look like

...or perhaps by then the (bigger) SPL teams will have already shown their true colours and will make it clear their view that they have no ambition to move away from playing the OF 4 times (and would never vote to keep it after the 2 years anyway).
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 07:13

DBP: There is much to agree with in your post above.Of course there needs to be League Reconstruction,properly thought out and running in tandem with a new income distribution model.Scotland has the most inequitable income distribution model in Europe.The Championship is starved of funds taking currently a derisory 12% of the Broadcasting cake.

At the time of writing the Scottish Government is under enormous pressure to emulate the £16m the U.K. Government found for English Rugby League which brings £144m into the Economy.Scottish Football contributes £214m.In addition we have yet to learn more about the astonishing windfall from the unnamed benefactors with no strings attached.

In your post you give the impression that the Football Authorities are starting with a blank page.In reality the issue has been debated to death since the Scottish Super League proposal in 1992.Everyone knows their opinion on the topic and it is wrecked each year by the usual suspects.

Suddenly the treatment of Hearts,Partick Th,Falkirk,Stranraer,Kelty Hearts and Edinburgh City has been so indefensible that some clubs have changed their minds.I don't doubt that Ann Budge is brazen but in Maths at school you sometimes came to the correct answer when your workings were wrong.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 08:26

I suppose that is where you and I differ. I can absolutely defend the decision to call the league and in turn hand out promotions and relegations.

Hearts are bottom of the spl, they played all their direct competitors 3 times and sit squarely at the bottom of the table. They've had 30 goes to prove they are not the worst team in the spl and have been unable to do so.

So to turn your argument on its head, I struggle to understand those who say you shouldn't relegate a team that finds itself having only won 4 games in 30, have propped up the table for ages and are still there when the league is called (albeit a handful of games early but recent history shows that doesn't mean much).

I'd argue that to call the winners but not the losers is unfair but worse, to change the whole league structure to prevent that team from being relegated and let's not forget the carnage that will be putting it back once everyone is happy it's a smaller team in their place is outrageous. I can't believe people are still giving this airtime when there's so many other burning questions that need to be looked at right now! Someone mentioned deck chairs on the titanic and that is what this continued waste of time is
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 10:01

DBP: What would you say to anyone connected with Partick Thistle?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 10:07

"DBP: What would you say to anyone connected with Partick Thistle?"

While Partick and Falkirk are the 2 who've been hard done by the most, Partick are in the position they're in, because of the same reason Hearts are, they've not won enough matches.
If you're handing out titles, you have to have relegation. Can't have one without theother imo.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 10:28

Quote:

Sliema Par, Mon 1 Jun 10:01

DBP: What would you say to anyone connected with Partick Thistle?


Patrick thistle were absolutely shocking last season. Thems the breaks
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 10:35

"Scottish Football contributes £214m."

Where does this come from ?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 11:30

Quote:

BigJPar, Mon 1 Jun 10:28

Quote:

Sliema Par, Mon 1 Jun 10:01

DBP: What would you say to anyone connected with Partick Thistle?


Patrick thistle were absolutely shocking last season. Thems the breaks


They've been terrible for 3 seasons now.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 12:13

Quote:

BigJPar, Mon 1 Jun 10:28

Quote:

Sliema Par, Mon 1 Jun 10:01

DBP: What would you say to anyone connected with Partick Thistle?


Patrick thistle were absolutely shocking last season. Thems the breaks


You simply wouldn't be saying that if we were in their position.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 12:24

Nobody has ever been in this situation before though.
Somebody has to lose out.
We can't have winners and no losers.
Life isn't always fair.



[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 13:07

Quote:

Sliema Par, Mon 1 Jun 10:01

DBP: What would you say to anyone connected with Partick Thistle?


Which team do you really support? 😉
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 13:08

You hand out titles and relegate, so why did splfl not allow Brechin to compete in pyramid play offs which to date have not been cancelled yet, they are sfa competition and spfl have not put Brechin forward why not?
The rules of that competition is clear, all four have to agree spfl, sfa, highland and lowland league, spfl done what they done without agreement.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 13:10

I agree with AAPS. But I also agree with them being relegated as a call had to be made and they were unfortunately one of those on the receiving end.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 13:50

veteraneastender: "Scottish Football contribues £214m."

Source Fraser Of Allander Institute 2019 Report.

JTH123 :I have been supporting Dunfermline Athletic since 1963.

Next Question?



Post Edited (Mon 01 Jun 13:58)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 13:51

Quote:

AdamAntsParsStripe, Mon 1 Jun 12:13

Quote:

BigJPar, Mon 1 Jun 10:28

Quote:

Sliema Par, Mon 1 Jun 10:01

DBP: What would you say to anyone connected with Partick Thistle?


Patrick thistle were absolutely shocking last season. Thems the breaks


You simply wouldn't be saying that if we were in their position.


Unprecedented situation. Enough of the season has been played though to use games played for relegation and promotion.
A bit harsh on some teams, a bit fortunate for others.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 13:57

AdamAntsParsStripe hits the uncomfortable nail on the head.

We are very fortunate not to be in this quicksand.

I believe Partick Th were two points behind with one game in hand.

Furthermore, the hated Falkirk were very well placed to go up.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 14:13

Quote:

Sliema Par, Mon 1 Jun 13:50

veteraneastender: "Scottish Football contribues £214m."

Source Fraser Of Allander Institute 2019 Report.

JTH123 :I have been supporting Dunfermline Athletic since 1963.

Next Question?


That's the question he would ask the fans of Partick Thistle. He's not asking you!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 14:23

Partick wouldn't give a shiny sh1te if we were bottom and they were in our position.

It's really strange that some folk care about them as much as they appear to.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 14:38

I think it would be exactly the same as we are with them.

Most of us sympathise as we've no axe to grind with them, but most of us don't care enough to let it concern them too much. The outliers are the ones who want to either fight the injustice or find it hilarious.

If it were roles reversed, their fans would be exactly the same.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 15:18

You may be correct but what price integrity eh?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 15:51

"You may be correct but what price integrity eh?"

League reconstruction to save Hearta, Partick and Falkirk, permanently or temporary' doesn't give you sporting integrity.

There's more sporting integrity in what's been done with, titles, promotion and relegation.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 1 Jun 21:58

veteraneastender: "Scottish Football contribues £214m."

Source Fraser Of Allander Institute 2019 Report.

I'd like a tad more detail than a bland statement like that.

Where does this money come from, and where does it go ?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Tue 2 Jun 00:45

VEE
This is the SPFL article. There's a link at the end to the FAI report.
https://spfl.co.uk/news/fraser-of-allander

_________________

Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters' Club (it will cost you nothing) when you shop online with one of 4000 retailers and insurance firms etc
http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 2 Jun 08:03

Cheers - found it last night.

Details are very basic.

After a bit of airthmetic - the Championship crowds are less than 9% of all SPFL
regular season league aggregated attendances.

Tends to put things into perspective.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 3 Jun 15:54

The Premiership Clubs are to be asked on Friday if they will accept a top tier of 14 clubs to run for five seasons.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 3 Jun 17:42

It's only to save Ann Budge.

matt forsyth
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Wed 3 Jun 17:47

5 years? The exact same time frame as the Sky deal?
Purely coincidence I'm sure.... 🤔

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 3 Jun 18:34

Quote:

AdamAntsParsStripe, Wed 3 Jun 17:47

5 years? The exact same time frame as the Sky deal?
Purely coincidence I'm sure.... 🤔


Of course, AAPS. 😉

5 years would be a decent time frame to judge whether it's better than the present set up. The SKY deal must be good enough to ensure that none of the current Premiership clubs would get any less in a league of 14.

If this is the case, they might vote for it, but the lower leagues won't buy it unless there's more money in it for them.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 3 Jun 19:11

Does anyone else think like me. If there is to be a league of 14, Ann Budge will not be relegated. However the other promotion place will not go to ICT but will go to Dundee.

matt forsyth
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Wed 3 Jun 19:13



that was the breakdown under Budge's proposal that she claims wasn't a proposal or something.
temporary for 2 years to temporary for 5 years doesn't change anything imo.

how are they going to promote Dundee from 3rd but not promote Inverness from 2nd? only way Dundee will get promoted is if Hearts are relegated as part of it.



Post Edited (Wed 03 Jun 19:15)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 3 Jun 19:33

Dundee because 1. The got promoted in 2012, 2. Bigger crowd, 3. Better TV Derby.

matt forsyth
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Wed 3 Jun 20:55

Inverness would rightly be promoted if 14 team option is successful. Sure teams will enjoy 4 trips to highlands next year.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 11:14

It was very encouraging to read today's "Dunfermline Press" article by Ross Hart Page 56.

The Dunfermline Athletic Board reassure us they are voting for League Reconstruction.

They are very much in favour of the Pyramid system and deplore the treatment of Kelty Hearts.

It is reassuring because, if Hearts end up in the Championship, the beancounters could normally look forward to two gates of 8500.

If we have League Reconstruction they can,one day,anticipate the return of two 6000 plus Gates v Falkirk.

Integrity remains their watchword.



Post Edited (Thu 04 Jun 11:21)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 11:30

[Post Deleted] - Reported as abusive
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 12:32

"Integrity remains their watchword"

Integrity my hoop, I think bribery is the watchword tbh.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 13:06

The whole thing is an absolute fudge to keep Hearts in the Premier League. Get them to ****

Awight Pat!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 13:10

"The Dunfermline Athletic Board reassure us they are voting for League Reconstruction"

for anyone that hasn't got a copy of the Press, McArthur talks about the different options which are being discussed but the final couple of quotes:

"we would certainly want reconstruction as a club. its just getting something that works for everybody"

which Budge's plan or Doncaster's 5 year plan might not work for us. being in favour of reconstruction is one thing but that doesn't mean they will vote for simply any reconstruction.



Post Edited (Thu 04 Jun 13:27)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 15:06

We would be utterly mad not to be in favour of a larger top division.

It is a huge leap to say that means we would agree to a potentially very temporary measure, which saved Hearts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Kdy Par  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 15:41

Quote:

DA-go Par Adonis, Thu 04 Jun 15:06

We would be utterly mad not to be in favour of a larger top division.

It is a huge leap to say that means we would agree to a potentially very temporary measure, which saved Hearts.


A larger division with a smaller % chance of promotion. No thanks.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 16:38

Raith Rovers talking sense on this. No to temporary reconstruction and no to any proposal which doesn't honour the pyramid system.
If we vote for this, it's purely out of self interest, that's for certain.
Never liked hearts and the thought of us pandering to that budgie gives me the boak.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 17:03

Aberdeen chairman has said he can’t back a 14 team Premiership for 5 years. He’ll not be the only one. It’s dead in the water.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 18:25

Problem is we need a temporary option to get it through then after the said time frame we look at it again. I don't think it will happen but if it does it makes sence for us voting for it as we will reep rewards of it now bringing Falkirk and rovers games into the calendar. Hopefully something can get worked out but I'm not holding my breath.

c'mon the pars
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 18:33

Okay, let's do 14 teams. Promote the top 3 in the Championship and relegate Hearts. Sounds good to me. Sporting integrity guaranteed
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 18:35

Quote:

Sliema Par, Thu 4 Jun 11:14

It was very encouraging to read today's "Dunfermline Press" article by Ross Hart Page 56.

The Dunfermline Athletic Board reassure us they are voting for League Reconstruction.

They are very much in favour of the Pyramid system and deplore the treatment of Kelty Hearts.

It is reassuring because, if Hearts end up in the Championship, the beancounters could normally look forward to two gates of 8500.

If we have League Reconstruction they can,one day,anticipate the return of two 6000 plus Gates v Falkirk.

Integrity remains their watchword.[/ quote]

I'll go again without being abusive, apologies.

You are mistaken if you think any of this is in the name of integrity.

If Hearts are saved from relegation as a result of temporary reconstruction it will expose the SPFL for the corrupt organisation it really is.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 19:25

Fair play to budge if she gets this through.

Brazen proposal to change the whole structure of the league, just long enough to prevent her team from relegation (who deserve to go down BTW) and screw the consequences when it regresses back (once hers and the other 'big' teams are safe)... and let's not be fooled, it will go back because that's how the top teams like it.

i suppose as the saying goes, "money talks" and budge's pal has managed to sweeten the deal and looks like some teams will dance to her tune with their caps out!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 19:36

Quote:

DBP, Thu 4 Jun 19:25

Fair play to budge if she gets this through.

Brazen proposal to change the whole structure of the league, just long enough to prevent her team from relegation (who deserve to go down BTW) and screw the consequences when it regresses back (once hers and the other 'big' teams are safe)... and let's not be fooled, it will go back because that's how the top teams like it.

i suppose as the saying goes, "money talks" and budge's pal has managed to sweeten the deal and looks like some teams will dance to her tune with their caps out!


Yet some on here say it's all in the name of integrity

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 19:45

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Thu 4 Jun 18:25

Problem is we need a temporary option to get it through then after the said time frame we look at it again. I don't think it will happen but if it does it makes sence for us voting for it as we will reep rewards of it now bringing Falkirk and rovers games into the calendar. Hopefully something can get worked out but I'm not holding my breath.


Why do we need a temporary fix?
Will Falkirk bring more than Hearts?
I don't think your points are very strong
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: davie moyes the first  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 21:32

I would have more sympathy with Kelty had they actually won their league over a completed season rather than having title awarded to them by the League.
That aside the SPFL were wrong to scrap the pyramid play offs.
The problem with reinstating the play offs now is that Brechin could go out and recruit a new team of players which would give them a better chance of survival.
It’s a mess whatever they do but let’s just hope they don’t create another two mouths to feed by extending the league to 44. Surely turkeys don’t vote for Xmas ?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 23:13

A lot of nonsense about Kelty - the play off could never have been fitted in. Brora and Kelty were awarded their leagues and one of them or neither of them could have got into L2 via the play off - promoting both of them would actually see them benefitting from the Coronavirus crisis. Kelty knew the route to the SPFL involved these play offs when they left the juniors. Lots of other teams are missing out on play offs.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Connor560  
Date:   Thu 4 Jun 23:57

Didnt think Scottish football was that hard a fix to be honest, top 2 from each leagues go up, no relegation anywhere.

Leagues reconstructed 14-10-10-10

Nobody loses. No need to change anything in terms of relegation or play offs at the end of the season.

Dundee United and Inverness go up, Raith and Falkirk up, Cove and Edinburgh city up and Brora and Kelty up.

C'mon Ye Pars!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 00:03

Don’t 6 teams in play off positions lose out, don’t L1 clubs lose out by not having either Partick and/or Falkirk to produce better gates due to their travelling support, etc
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 08:20

Relegate Hearts.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 09:54

Quote:

BigJPar, Thu 4 Jun 19:45

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Thu 4 Jun 18:25

Problem is we need a temporary option to get it through then after the said time frame we look at it again. I don't think it will happen but if it does it makes sence for us voting for it as we will reep rewards of it now bringing Falkirk and rovers games into the calendar. Hopefully something can get worked out but I'm not holding my breath.


Why do we need a temporary fix?
Will Falkirk bring more than Hearts?
I don't think your points are very strong


Both Falkirk and raith will bring more than hearts and we might have a better chance of finishing top without hearts. It's a well know fact that there isn't the numbers to back permanent reconstruction so a 2 or 5 year plan is the only way to get it through.

c'mon the pars

Post Edited (Fri 05 Jun 09:54)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 10:05

Quote:

jake89, Thu 4 Jun 18:33

Okay, let's do 14 teams. Promote the top 3 in the Championship and relegate Hearts. Sounds good to me. Sporting integrity guaranteed


Totally agree with this. If they want to have reconstruction, for any kind of integrity, they need to relegate Hearts, Partick and Stranraer. Yes it's tough on Partick, but if your promoting Raith on a baw hair then thems the breaks.

As for the Kelty/Brora issue, how's cancelling their play off any different to cancelling the championship one? Cancel one set of play offs, cancel them all.

Before this there was no appetite for reconstruction, this is purely about keeping Hearts up. Nothing else.
Any reconstruction, imo, has to be permanent, and has to be done for the right reasons. Not to keep Ann Budge happy.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 11:02

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Fri 5 Jun 09:54

Quote:

BigJPar, Thu 4 Jun 19:45

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Thu 4 Jun 18:25

Problem is we need a temporary option to get it through then after the said time frame we look at it again. I don't think it will happen but if it does it makes sence for us voting for it as we will reep rewards of it now bringing Falkirk and rovers games into the calendar. Hopefully something can get worked out but I'm not holding my breath.


Why do we need a temporary fix?
Will Falkirk bring more than Hearts?
I don't think your points are very strong


Both Falkirk and raith will bring more than hearts and we might have a better chance of finishing top without hearts. It's a well know fact that there isn't the numbers to back permanent reconstruction so a 2 or 5 year plan is the only way to get it through.


There is no way Falkirk and Raith bring more to EEP than hearts.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 11:36

Quote:

BigJPar, Fri 5 Jun 11:02

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Fri 5 Jun 09:54

Quote:

BigJPar, Thu 4 Jun 19:45

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Thu 4 Jun 18:25

Problem is we need a temporary option to get it through then after the said time frame we look at it again. I don't think it will happen but if it does it makes sence for us voting for it as we will reep rewards of it now bringing Falkirk and rovers games into the calendar. Hopefully something can get worked out but I'm not holding my breath.


Why do we need a temporary fix?
Will Falkirk bring more than Hearts?
I don't think your points are very strong


Both Falkirk and raith will bring more than hearts and we might have a better chance of finishing top without hearts. It's a well know fact that there isn't the numbers to back permanent reconstruction so a 2 or 5 year plan is the only way to get it through.


There is no way Falkirk and Raith bring more to EEP than hearts.


Exactly what I was thinking. Never seen hearts not absolutely pack the away end
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GEW35  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 12:16

We, along with most other clubs, are on the Hearts fans boycott list. Apparently, if they do remain in the Championship, then they’ll only be travelling in numbers to ICT. Whether that happens in reality is another argument altogether of course.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 12:38

"Both Falkirk and raith will bring more than hearts and we might have a better chance of finishing top without hearts. It's a well know fact that there isn't the numbers to back permanent reconstruction so a 2 or 5 year plan is the only way to get it through."

I take it you mean 4 home games v Falkirk and Raith would see a bigger no of fans than 2 home games v Hearts?

The flaw in that argument is that the wee team is already in next season's Championship, so it's really Hearts or Falkirk. The other, not insignificant consideration is that the number of potential fans at any game may well be irrelevant if fans are not allowed to watch or if a crowd limit is imposed on stadia.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 18:47

Quote:

BigJPar, Fri 5 Jun 11:02

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Fri 5 Jun 09:54

Quote:

BigJPar, Thu 4 Jun 19:45

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Thu 4 Jun 18:25

Problem is we need a temporary option to get it through then after the said time frame we look at it again. I don't think it will happen but if it does it makes sence for us voting for it as we will reep rewards of it now bringing Falkirk and rovers games into the calendar. Hopefully something can get worked out but I'm not holding my breath.


Why do we need a temporary fix?
Will Falkirk bring more than Hearts?
I don't think your points are very strong


Both Falkirk and raith will bring more than hearts and we might have a better chance of finishing top without hearts. It's a well know fact that there isn't the numbers to back permanent reconstruction so a 2 or 5 year plan is the only way to get it through.


There is no way Falkirk and Raith bring more to EEP than hearts.


So a full end from both would and if we put a run more chance of winning the league compare it with hearts in the championship.

c'mon the pars

Post Edited (Fri 05 Jun 18:51)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 18:50

Not sure why as we are backing a reconstruction that's saving the clubs skin

c'mon the pars
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 21:01

Rangers are proposing a 14-14-18 structure with B teams from them and Celtic joining the third tier.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52941423
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 21:11

Rangers can shove that
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 21:16

I like that
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 21:20

looks like trying to bribe teams into getting what you want is the in thing this week, if there was any doubt it was involved in the Budge plan which is now dead, Rangers are making damn sure everyone knows about it...if the story is true.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 21:50

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 5 Jun 21:01

Rangers are proposing a 14-14-18 structure with B teams from them and Celtic joining the third tier.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52941423


Right in the sea with that

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 22:19

Is this to make hearts proposals look good?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 22:37

Let's just be clear what the recent stuff is all about. The 'philanthropy' money and now this are just blatant attempts at bribery, nothing more or less.

Hearts have an obvious reason to want to bribe clubs into accepting a temporary top division of 14, so despite the 'no strings attached' pihs, there's obviously coercion at play if clubs are now being asked what it would take for them to support a 14-team divion despite it apparently having been rejected last week.

Given that it's Tom English who is reporting the Rangers proposal, it's probably true since he's been the cheerleader for all things Hearts and Rangers throughout this and has utterly embarrassed himself with the complete lack of balance and objectivity in his reporting. If true, then it's just opportunism to try to get the colts thing through which was talked about and rejected a couple of years ago. It's exploiting fears of clubs further down the leagues with the hope that bribe money at a difficult time will be enough to get them to reluctantly vote for it.

Nicely timed, since Sportsound tomorrow will presumably 'debate' this in the usual cringeworthy, biased and pathetically ill-informed style we've become used to over the last few weeks. That 'put in a paper' ranting last week was an absolute joke, so no doubt we'll have similar this week, particularly so if that clown English is on again to do some more licking of Ann Budge's bottom .

Hearts and Rangers can go **** themselves. As can their lackey Tom English.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 23:02

I sometimes feel Socks sits on the fence too much, you know, doesn’t really put his feelings out there.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 23:20

Socks is right.
I listened to last week's sportsound and Anne Budge, while coming over as a tipsy mare at times knew that carrot dangling at the studio about the peole with "no strings attached" was going to dominate the next week's headlines isn't daft.
Now, a week later, this act of charity to the diddy teams is not what it was but to be shared throughout.
I love the politics going on but the naivety of so called intelligent people that should know better is even more laughable.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Fri 5 Jun 23:26

I've attended Scottish football matches regularly for over six decades, but I haven't really missed it during the enforced lockdown, and the blatant lack of sporting integrity in Scottish football isn't helping.

Maybe the enthusiasm will come flooding back when play eventually restarts, or maybe not. I do wonder how many other fans might be feeling the same way.

_________________

Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters' Club (it will cost you nothing) when you shop online with one of 4000 retailers and insurance firms etc
http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 00:45

i'm kinda with you stanza...

i think if we'd had the leagues sorted, fixture lists out with proposed start times for next season the it would have kept the fire burning...

...but the fact that none of that has happened and instead, fitba right now is like groundhog day, continually going round the houses and over and over on another incarnation of some nonsense about temporary restructure coupled with the fact that it might actually go through has kinda turned me off a bit to be honest

perhaps when scottish football finally starts to discuss and paint a picture of what football will be like in the 20/21 season then i may get interested again, but as it stands, i haven't really missed it that much either and have enjoyed spending time with family instead (who have no interest in football so don't come with me)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Rigger Al  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 02:24

Somebody needs to explain we cannot open social events ,bars ect .but we can have 100,000s protests all over the world with no social distancing or masks
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 07:55

I'm now at the stage where I just check in on this thread every few days and see what Socks is saying in order to keep me informed.

The problem seems to me that we don't have an objective, independent governing body who has the mandate to do what is right for the overall game. For example, you can't have a board made up of various chairman. It's a direct conflict of interest regardless of how ethical they may be.

This Ann Budge business should never have seen the light of day. Creates a shocking precedent the next time a club has a grievance with how things have panned out for them.

Add in how parochial and lopsided the game is and it's all pretty toxic. I wouldn't give Sportsound the time of day. All these guys have spent their entire lives in football and have neither the intelligence or open mind to debate anything properly. Actually, Stuart Cosgrove is decent but he doesn't make the main show, does he?

Was reconstruction on the table before the pandemic? If the answer is no then it shouldn't be on the table now.

If I was in charge I'd be advocating for something with a bit more imagination to solve the end of season funk. Anyone in a marginal position gets dealt with via super playoffs. Hearts v Hamilton on closed door PPV. Hamilton get a two goal start to reflect the league position. Tenner to watch with profits going to loser as parachute payment. Same with other leagues. Or something like that. Something that tries to strike a balance between paralysing the league + retaining a bit of sporting process.

Stuff like this actually makes me hate the game and everything involved.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 08:01

Good post, Rusty. Couldn't disagree with any of that.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 09:06

Quote:

Rigger Al, Sat 6 Jun 02:24

Somebody needs to explain we cannot open social events ,bars ect .but we can have 100,000s protests all over the world with no social distancing or masks


You're not meant to be. Not in the UK anyway.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 09:12

Agree with all of that rusty
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 09:53

Good Post Rusty

I think it has sickened quite a few folk
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 09:56

Rusty your idea of Hearts v Hamilton sounds good. However the Budge version might be better for her team. Hamilton starts with 5 men, Hearts with 11. Hearts also get 10 goals of a start. Sounds like 5h!te, well so does everything else that comes out of that woman's mouth. Her team were relegated and all that she thinks of is how to stay up.

matt forsyth
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 10:00

"Maybe the enthusiasm will come flooding back when play eventually restarts, or maybe not. I do wonder how many other fans might be feeling the same way."

I'm 50/50 - not in full withdrawal mode.

There are other factors that will impact on attendances when things begin to normalise IMO.

Sadly the country will experience significant unemployment and many supporters will have to prioritise - less attractive fixtures will suffer accordingly.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 10:07

Getting fed up with all the arguments over this.

I must agree that I ain't missing the football at all!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 11:13

Agree with most of what Rusty says but not the point about reconstruction not being on the table now if it wasn’t before the pandemic struck.

At my work there have been huge changes brought in really quickly - many of these are hugely beneficial and here to stay but would never have happened without the pandemic.

This situation has forced the game to look at itself which “should” be a good thing - the problem is self-interest has taken over rather than looking at what is best for the game as a whole.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 11:15

“Maybe the enthusiasm will come flooding back when play eventually restarts, or maybe not. I do wonder how many other fans might be feeling the same way."

I put aside money every month which is then used to pay for my season ticket, it’s all got so tiresome that I’m now thinking of reallocating that money which Is sitting onto something else and just paying at the gate this year. Problem with that is without a season ticket it becomes very easy for my time to be filled by other things and actual attendance falls away quite a bit


[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 11:48

Bang on Rusty 👍
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 12:06

Quote:

AJ27, Sat 6 Jun 11:13

Agree with most of what Rusty says but not the point about reconstruction not being on the table now if it wasn’t before the pandemic struck.

At my work there have been huge changes brought in really quickly - many of these are hugely beneficial and here to stay but would never have happened without the pandemic.

This situation has forced the game to look at itself which “should” be a good thing - the problem is self-interest has taken over rather than looking at what is best for the game as a whole.


That's a really good point
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 13:27

Good Post AJ27
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 6 Jun 14:42

again agree with that rusty - funnily enough, one of the things i do for my day job is to look at target state operating models and transitions to them so hear exactly what your saying.

although i'm against budge's plan, i'm all for proper reconstruction. if covid 19 forces the agenda on that then great... but that doesn't mean that it should be rushed, temporary, destructive and obviously to suit one clubs interest.

i'd rather the league had timetabled strategic roadmap as soon as it became obvious this was a big issue. however what we actually got was self interest nonsense, squabbles about voting, claims and counter claims about chairmen and their behaviour, rangers "evidence" and multiple sequels of budge's save hearts at any cost campaign.


by now we could/should have agreed the most immediate issue and published how football will start up again (with the current structure and teams promoted / relegated as per their league positions), what matchday will look like for teams and fans and what the income streams will be

by aug/sep we could timetable the start of the new season under whatever guise it will take and given enough time for teams to prepare and to create those income streams along with other requirements (cameras, streaming infrastructure, season passes marketed/solde, etc)

by dec we could have agreed a new permanent restructure of everything, leagues, finances, promotions, relegations, income, etc and how leagues will transition to the new situation, i.e. when 20/21 finishes in whatever state. this could have been done independently and independent of any clubs immediate agenda's which would have had much more chance of success in terms of buy-in from teams/fans (and lets not forget tom english and co!)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 11:16

Details of James Anderson's financial assistance to the Leagues are on the BBC Sport website; no strings attached apparently.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52992075
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 13:13

Quote:

wee eck, Wed 10 Jun 11:16

Details of James Anderson's financial assistance to the Leagues are on the BBC Sport website; no strings attached apparently.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52992075


Dunno if I am just being cynical but it seems convenient that Budge has brought him to the party.

Awight Pat!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 14:40

The fact its never been the case for it being the clubs outwith the Premier league getting this grant which is the complete opposite to what Anne budge said it was doesn't look good on her looking at the whole shambles it has been so far.

c'mon the pars
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 16:32

Anything that involves Budge is dodgy. This windfall to most of Scottish teams will be a saviour. Most if not all of the chairman will look on Hearts more favourably. More than ever, I think Hearts will not not be in our league this season coming.

matt forsyth
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: The Toun Clock  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 21:47

Looks like reconstruction is back on the table then. Should be decided by Monday with a 14-10-10-10 proposal. Hearts would stay up, Utd and Inverness promotes. Thistle stay up with Raith and Falkirk up and so on. Kelty would also get up going down this route.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52999362?__twitter_impression=true
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 21:53

Still think if you finish bottom of league 2 you should go down automatically.

c'mon the pars
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 22:27

Quote:

The Toun Clock, Wed 10 Jun 21:47

Looks like reconstruction is back on the table then. Should be decided by Monday with a 14-10-10-10 proposal. Hearts would stay up, Utd and Inverness promotes. Thistle stay up with Raith and Falkirk up and so on. Kelty would also get up going down this route.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52999362?__twitter_impression=true


I get United going up but why Inverness. They were just a wee bit less sh1te than the other 8 teams in the league

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 23:07

Why would ICT go up - they have no more claim to promotion than Ayr or Dundee - thought this proposal was meant to ensure there was no unfairness?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Wed 10 Jun 23:55

It won’t be decided on Monday - clubs are only giving indications of how they might vote as no resolution has been tabled
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Thu 11 Jun 00:00

Or us.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Thu 11 Jun 08:11

This proposal needs serious consideration it is the fairest possible way of having reconstruction if this is not accepted then there will be no change
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 11 Jun 08:27

it isn't fair to the other playoff teams that are not being put up a league, to ask every club to lose prize money in the changes to that and also the drop from the championship to league 1 is bad financially, if this goes through it would be even worse.



Post Edited (Thu 11 Jun 08:35)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 11 Jun 09:34

Is it still temporary with the default plan to return to current set up?

If so then all we've done is used a different shade of lipstick and therefore not interested!

Post Edited (Thu 11 Jun 09:34)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Thu 11 Jun 09:50

The slashing of the prize money available to the championship teams is being ignored by the cheerleaders of this proposal.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 11 Jun 11:16

Slashing of funds and it dilutes the league. We're lucky we'll benefit from from Falkirk and the wee team under these proposals but we're also losing potential crowds from Hearts.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 11 Jun 11:23

its permanent DBP.

it is elvis but as I said it applies to every club basically, another factor is the "donation" money will presumably have to apply to Brora and Kelty also so that's another cut in finance.

apparently this has come about because of a change of potential support for it, from which clubs and how many? Aberdeen have said they are against any permanent change, Roy McGregor said at the weekend its too late for any reconstruction now and move on, for the championship clubs the negatives far outweigh any positives imo, Brechin have said they would support it but did the other league 2 teams not say from the start they will not vote for it?
or is it simply the threat of legal action from Budge and potential compensation if they won that this is a "cheaper" way out of that financially? think that's more likely to be honest, some clubs might vote for it but I still think it wont go through



Post Edited (Thu 11 Jun 17:55)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: chewie  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 10:25

I think it might go through, although the sticking point might be the Premiership teams needing 11-1 in the voting. While the prize money for Championship is lower as a league, it is still relative to overall position in the country - eg 3rd in Championship would be 17th in the country - similar prize money to 5th place in Championship now (also 17th overall) and so on. Plus the added bonus of potentially playing in a higher league as everyone effectively jumps up 2 places wherever they are.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 11:18

Di we know how many will be prompted to and relegated from the bigger leagues?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 12:26

^^ the same as it is now.

I think "doomed" is one papers take on the plan although most are in agreement this is not going to get voted through.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 13:17

Seriously?

So we're creating bigger leagues but not increasing the gate between them... Does that not effectively make it harder to then to be promoted /relegated, ie more teams fighting for the same 1 automatic promotion /1 playoff spot?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 13:37

No way , Aberdeen Hamilton St Mirren are going to vote to split the money 14 ways

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 17:37

its only 1 bigger league DBP...

"or is it simply the threat of legal action from Budge and potential compensation if they won that this is a "cheaper" way out of that financially?"

all the talk is this last chance proposal wont happen so what comes out now, oh look...

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-staring-6m-compensation-bill-22183365



Post Edited (Fri 12 Jun 17:40)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 19:36

If clubs don't back this then scottish football is heading towards armageddon
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 19:41

Hearts are an embarrassment.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 19:47

I sincerely hope there's no reconstruction. Its purely to save Hearts and therefore totally corrupt. The money their benefactor is offering, plus the 200 tickets a game the old firm are offering to buy for each game for their colts team is nothing short of a bribe. If we don't have the moral integrity to rise above this I would have to consider my near 50 year love affair with Scottish football
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 19:48

Quote:

dafc-chris1, Fri 12 Jun 19:36

If clubs don't back this then scottish football is heading towards armageddon


You sound like Anne Budge.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 19:50

Quote:

dafc-chris1, Fri 12 Jun 19:36

If clubs don't back this then scottish football is heading towards armageddon


How exactly is hearts getting relegated going to cause 'Armageddon'?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 19:56

Because Budge has been relying on donations to keep Hearts afloat.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 20:00

Relegating hearts will cost the clubs Millions when Hearts win their legal case against the spfl
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 20:11

Only if successful. How would Hearts evidence a sudden turnaround in fortunes? Shall we then sue the SPFL as we could've won the league still. Totally unfair that we weren't allowed to finish the season and be promoted the Premiership.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: the saline hill puma  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 20:18

Quote:

dafc-chris1, Fri 12 Jun 20:00

Relegating hearts will cost the clubs Millions when Hearts win their legal case against the spfl


What makes you so sure that they will win and legal case?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 20:34

Hearts have an airtight legal case with a clear precedent set in Ligue 1 in France which makes it highly unlikely that Hearts would lose out
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 20:42

French court != Scottish court.

Hearts are coming down and they know it. Budge is making Hearts look totally lacking any dignity. They're just a mini-Rangers.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 21:02

I have to agree.
What went on in a French court has no bearing here.



[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 21:51

Quote:

dafc-chris1, Fri 12 Jun 20:34

Hearts have an airtight legal case with a clear precedent set in Ligue 1 in France which makes it highly unlikely that Hearts would lose out


Can you give us any details of the French case and how similar it is to Hearts situation, Chris?



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Fri 12 Jun 22:09

Quote:

dafc-chris1, Fri 12 Jun 20:34

Hearts have an airtight legal case with a clear precedent set in Ligue 1 in France which makes it highly unlikely that Hearts would lose out


Hello Anne, Hello!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 06:32

Quote:

dafc-chris1, Fri 12 Jun 20:34

Hearts have an airtight legal case with a clear precedent set in Ligue 1 in France which makes it highly unlikely that Hearts would lose out


Huge difference, member clubs voted to end season in Scotland. They didn’t in France, the French federation took the decision, no comparison with SPFL and hearts don’t have a case.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 08:53

<<its only 1 bigger league DBP...??

so what is actually being proposed, if it's only one bigger does that mean dundee utd and ICT are both promoted, replacing hearts in the SPFL and everything else stays the same?

can't seem to see any detail on it
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 08:57

No, one bigger league as in one of the leagues is bigger, the rest stay at 10. Dundee Utd and Inverness up, Hearts stay up. Then Partixk stay up, Falkirk come up etc. all the way to Brora and Kelty coming up.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 09:22

"Hearts have an airtight legal case".....

from the Times

"Roy MacGregor, the Ross County chairman, insists that Hearts should forget about pursuing legal action against the Scottish Professional Football League because it is destined to fail.
On the advice of a Queen’s Counsel, MacGregor says there are no grounds for the relegated Edinburgh club to win a court case and that they would be better advised to “take their medicine” in the Championship"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 09:49

<<No, one bigger league as in one of the leagues is bigger, the rest stay at 10. Dundee Utd and Inverness up, Hearts stay up. Then Partixk stay up, Falkirk come up etc. all the way to Brora and Kelty coming up.>>

so a bigger spfl but the entry/exit gate hasn't been widened to increase access to it for those clubs still in the championship?

that sucks. apart from the obvious ambition to save hearts skin, for me that just puts us all at a disadvantage because it further secures those middle sized teams who happen to be that league, who over the course of a few years will continue to benefit financially from being more secure now and the gulf will get even bigger to teams like ourselves.

so i think if DA were in the SPFL right now, i'd love it as it would reduce the potential to be relegated, but for all teams outside the SPFL, this does nothing but mean the likelihood of having a dundee utd, a hearts or hibs in the future breathing fresh life into the championship will greatly reduce.

leagues need to be healthy and have good opportunities for promotion, even the EPL automatically relegates 15% of it's teams to make for new blood. this proposal sounds like it will stick to 1 automatic relegation which isn't even half of that number.

so if it's permanent, then it's a step in the right direction, but there must be more opportunity to allow teams like ourselves to benefit once in a while
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 11:07

"Hello Anne, Hello!"

More like 'Allo, Allo !!!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 11:22

Hearts have information from 2 QC's that they have a strong legal case and are likely to win if they go down that route
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 11:50

Quote:

jake89, Fri 12 Jun 19:56

Because Budge has been relying on donations to keep Hearts afloat.


Is that not what we have been doing relying on our own fans to dig deep for auctions etc to keep us afloat?

c'mon the pars
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 11:56

i hope hearts do take legal action...

...could do with a club that size in the championship having crippled themselves financially on a fools errand, so they'll have to field the utter dross they have left in their team

i also think that if we bow to this threat, anytime a 'bigger' club doesnt' like something, they just need to get a couple of willing QCs to make the right noises and can threaten anyone else to get their way - no thanks to that prospect
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 12:11

"Hearts have information from 2 QC's that they have a strong legal case and are likely to win if they go down that route."

Delete "information" and insert "an opinion" - other legal experts disagree.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 12:25

Correct VEE. Leslie Deans said as much on the radio a few saturdays ago.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 12:33

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Sat 13 Jun 11:50

Quote:

jake89, Fri 12 Jun 19:56

Because Budge has been relying on donations to keep Hearts afloat.


Is that not what we have been doing relying on our own fans to dig deep for auctions etc to keep us afloat?


Hearts contributions are in the millions. That stand didn't pay for itself.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 13:24

Still struggle to see your point

c'mon the pars
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 13:35

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/board-update-13th-june-2020/

brought a tear to the eye....yep down you go, see ya!



Post Edited (Sat 13 Jun 13:37)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 14:03

Quote:

GJS93, Sat 13 Jun 13:35

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/board-update-13th-june-2020/

brought a tear to the eye....yep down you go, see ya!


Absolutely terrible last season.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 14:16

Their statement is asking clubs to vote for reconstruction to save a few clubs from harm. The clubs have to weigh up what option causes the least damage. If clubs think that 14 teams in the Premiership causes more damage than reconstruction then that’s how they should vote. Reconstruction will not happen. Not even maybe.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 14:18

No sympathy, I still remember their fans goading and laughing at us in our darkest hour.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 14:30

Quote:

Par, Sat 13 Jun 14:18

No sympathy, I still remember their fans goading and laughing at us in our darkest hour.


I had forgotten about that day. Down they go!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 14:59

Quote:

BigJPar, Sat 13 Jun 14:03

Quote:

GJS93, Sat 13 Jun 13:35

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/board-update-13th-june-2020/

brought a tear to the eye....yep down you go, see ya!


Absolutely terrible last season.


Terrible for THREE seasons!

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 15:36

I thought the boys on Sportsound would have sorted out this reconstruction thing by now.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 18:30

14 10 10 10 is fairest solution and gets season started and fixtures sorted.
No one loses.
Leagues can then decide if they want to play full of part season, otherwise teams are all obliged to play out season fully or risk expulsion.
It would also suit pars if altered as gives us better chance of promotion.
Hearts Dundee and Inverness will all be in front of pars next season in championship. This gives us a real chance of challenging Dundee.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 19:17

Quote:

dafc, Sat 13 Jun 18:30

14 10 10 10 is fairest solution and gets season started and fixtures sorted.
No one loses.
Leagues can then decide if they want to play full of part season, otherwise teams are all obliged to play out season fully or risk expulsion.
It would also suit pars if altered as gives us better chance of promotion.
Hearts Dundee and Inverness will all be in front of pars next season in championship. This gives us a real chance of challenging Dundee.


Hearts and Dundee will be no chance re Inverness. They’ve lost half a team and are in dire financial straits.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 21:13

Quote:

dafc, Sat 13 Jun 18:30

14 10 10 10 is fairest solution and gets season started and fixtures sorted.
No one loses.
Leagues can then decide if they want to play full of part season, otherwise teams are all obliged to play out season fully or risk expulsion.
It would also suit pars if altered as gives us better chance of promotion.
Hearts Dundee and Inverness will all be in front of pars next season in championship. This gives us a real chance of challenging Dundee.


How the feck is 14-10-10-10 fair? Why do hearts deserve to be saved?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 21:37

Quote:

Lambo1885, Sat 13 Jun 21:13

Quote:

dafc, Sat 13 Jun 18:30

14 10 10 10 is fairest solution and gets season started and fixtures sorted.
No one loses.
Leagues can then decide if they want to play full of part season, otherwise teams are all obliged to play out season fully or risk expulsion.
It would also suit pars if altered as gives us better chance of promotion.
Hearts Dundee and Inverness will all be in front of pars next season in championship. This gives us a real chance of challenging Dundee.


How the feck is 14-10-10-10 fair? Why do hearts deserve to be saved?


No more fair than Partick being relegated.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 22:19

Right, officially getting bored with this now... it's like groundhog day

We've been round all the arguments and there's no point repeating them all again!

From where I'm sitting, some believe hearts who have played 30, rooted to the bottom and been rank all season don't deserve to go down on the off chance they may scrape out of it and support restructuring the league structure to save them. Some are scared of hearts threats and would change the league structure to appease them and others believe the league has been called, top teams get the prize and bottom teams are relegated.

From my perspective, I'm sick of the whole thing. Sick off the self serving, squabbling, tantrums, threats and pathetic leadership. Sick of the fact we're burning calories on this nonsense and not on what's important, e.g. how, when, where we'll get going again.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sat 13 Jun 23:05

Quote:

AdamAntsParsStripe, Sat 13 Jun 21:37

Quote:

Lambo1885, Sat 13 Jun 21:13

Quote:

dafc, Sat 13 Jun 18:30

14 10 10 10 is fairest solution and gets season started and fixtures sorted.
No one loses.
Leagues can then decide if they want to play full of part season, otherwise teams are all obliged to play out season fully or risk expulsion.
It would also suit pars if altered as gives us better chance of promotion.
Hearts Dundee and Inverness will all be in front of pars next season in championship. This gives us a real chance of challenging Dundee.


How the feck is 14-10-10-10 fair? Why do hearts deserve to be saved?


No more fair than Partick being relegated.


Yeh, but as **** as it is for Partick, let's be honest, this is all about Hearts.
I'm not against reconstruction. But it's got to be done for the right reasons and this is just a complete shitshow to save Hearts. If Celtic, Utd, Raith and cove get a league title, you need to have a loser. Unfortunately Hearts, Patrick and Stranraer are those losers.
Let's be honest, hearts have been murder all season and were unlikely to have escaped.
Would I have had a different opinion is it was the Pars? Possibly, but that doesn't make it and more or less fair. Hearts need to deal with it, and move on. And at the end of the day f**k Patrick and Falkirk.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 07:11

Wonder how we will be voting regarding the 14,10,10,10 fudge to save hearts.
Surely it's got to be a no.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 08:45

Can't see any benefit myself?

Just means a rival gets a free pass into the league above and there's a smaller likelihood of them coming back down, so the gap between us and them will widen.

So voting for something which only introduces a disbenefit, all for the sake of preventing a club from being relegated who deserve to go down anyway (and have been pretty nasty about the whole thing) seems daft... So can only assume common sense will prevail and we vote no
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 11:51

Apparently it has fallen through with 3 premier league teams voting against. My bet is Aberdeen Hamilton will be 2 of the 3

c'mon the pars
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 12:20

I would guess that the 3 teams would have been Hibs,Aberdeen and Ross County
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 12:29

Is this vote now binding though.
From what I heard yesterday this was a preliminary vote to decide if the SPFL board could hold an EGM next week for the proper vote but they needed to guage if there was sufficient support to put it to the test next week.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: No league reconstruction ~ yet
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 12:41

Kheredine Iddesane on Twitter:
“BREAKING NEWS:
@spfl reconstruction fails , with only 16 clubs backing it from the 42 ...“

This from the @spfl , who confirm 12-10-10-10 for the coming season with @JamTarts in 27 game Championship; @PartickThistle in League 1 and @StranraerFC in League 2.... :

“ The SPFL Board announced a league-wide consultation exercise has shown there is insufficient support for a new divisional structure
& that the current 12-10-10-10 format will remain in place for Season 2020/21. 16 of the 42 clubs favoured changing to a 14-10-10-10 structure but this was short of the numbers required* and, as a result, the SPFL Board has agreed to draw a line under reconstruction talks. “

buffysbuns.wordpress.com

Post Edited (Mon 15 Jun 12:47)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Top of Board  |  Forum List  |  Threaded View   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 


 Forum List  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Security : type 'pars' in the box:
email:
© 2020 -- DAFC.net