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 Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: Kerkey  
Date:   Wed 20 May 08:27

I seen a post on a social media platform from a couple of Hearts supporters who said they will not be visiting EEP next season due to our chairman’s involvement on the SPFL board. I couldn’t help but laugh, it’s not Dunfermline Athletic’s fault that hearts are in the situation they find themselves in. It’s 2-3 years of poor decision making and management within the club and the fact that this year they have been absolute horse dung. The final decision to relegate them is maybe unjust to a degree but before the suspension of football kicked in, who was hearts last game against? St Mirren, fellow relegation candidates and what happened. St Mirren won 1-0, so stop blaming others, you’re starting to sound like rangers fans!!!
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 20 May 08:34

They'll be back if Hearts hit a winning run.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 20 May 08:59

They're fizzing and feel unfairly treated. It was the right decision to call the league but you can't blame them for being upset...

However i accept the point that some (or most) of their anger should really be at the club who allowed themselves to be planted bottom of the league and in that vulnerable position anyway.

In fairness, Anne budge had played the unjust card very well to deflect all attention from the poor team /results to its everyone else's fault
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 20 May 09:13

I see George Foulkes is on Twitter asking the UK Government to urge UEFA to investigate the SPFL for calling the Premiership. 🤣😂🤣😂

As if they don't have anything better to do in the middle of a pandemic.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 20 May 09:22

They're clearly in the anger-frustration phase of the change curve / bereavement cycle.

Any one who is new to change management should really watch this evolve... as you will see them clearly move through each phase
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: The Toun Clock  
Date:   Wed 20 May 09:23

Hearts fans will be at East End Park next season in their expected numbers. Football fans struggle to stay away, especially after not having football for so long. There’ll be one or two that don’t but the ones I know are all ready looking to a good day out and a bridie or two.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Wed 20 May 09:26

Shock... Some Hearts fans are bitter!!!
It's not fair... etc
World keeps spinning though.
At least they've got rid of Levein. They might actually get somewhere now... Although they'll need to get out the championship first. I'd imagine they will be favourites for the league.
And they'll bring some bumper crowds to EEP despite what they're saying online.
I work with a few Jambos so I'm hoping we can take a few points off them.... Will make for good banter at work 🤣



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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: General Zod  
Date:   Wed 20 May 09:27

I've said it on here time and time again that hearts fans are generally a bunch of absolute cretins. I know more than enough of them and they are so arrogant about football that it genuinely reaches pus-punching levels. Good pals though just not when it comes to fitba.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 20 May 09:27

That's because by that time they will have accepted the position, deciding to blow every team in the championship away and get back to the spl with a leaner, hungrier, better squad and a club in a much better position than they are now.

They just need a bit of time to get there...
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 20 May 09:39

DA v Hearts would be a good opening fixture. It's usually best to play relegated teams early on. When will it be played though - New Year's Day?
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Wed 20 May 09:40

Fans won't be allowed to attend games next season anyway
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 20 May 09:44

Hearts fans have in their number a fairly large percentage of people who cannot get season tickets for Ibrox. You know the type their knuckles touch the ground. They will make a large percentage of the fans who will not come to EEP. Other more decent ones might stay away on their first visit but will come in huge numbers, especially if they are top of the league.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Wed 20 May 09:47

I’d say it’s less unjust than our relegation in 2012. No-one batted an eyelid then.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 20 May 09:48

"That's because by that time they will have accepted the position, deciding to blow every team in the championship away and get back to the spl with a leaner, hungrier, better squad and a club in a much better position than they are now."

Several clubs have made the erroneous assumption that'll they'll go straight back up - as both sets of fans on Tayside will testify, and the other half of Edinburgh.

They will be favourites of course.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: storminNorman  
Date:   Wed 20 May 11:08

they the fans should be upset as we and most other fans would be if this was a situation any club found itself in but they should be more upset with the goings on closer to home.
Budge has singularly saved that club and also been the guiding light in bringing it to its knees,Levein playing king of the castle and most probably tying her in knots
then her giving him the managers job to boot.the stadium (the fans paid for) the initial cost rocketed for what?is it an outstanding piece of football stadium building?not that i have seen and unbelievably still not complete with further cost involved.the crazy wages Levein and her agreed on to an over inflated squad.
also what happened to giving the club back to the foundation after her millions were paid back? no the fans cant be trusted to run the club at the moment,really and they think she has done an excellent job on that front.

they are obviously upset,angry but when the dust settles (they may still be in the top league) they will hopefully see the bigger picture.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: par_33  
Date:   Wed 20 May 11:22

They are a bitter bunch, just Rangers fans that can't afford a train ticket.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 20 May 11:43

"I’d say it’s less unjust than our relegation in 2012. No-one batted an eyelid then."

Why was it unjust ?

Five wins all season compared to twenty three defeats and 8 points adrift of the second bottom club, with a goal difference of - 42.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Wed 20 May 11:48

Because one team in league ceased to exist.

Precedent seemed to suggest that would save the relegated team - rather than artificially promote a side from the league below who didn't occupy a promotion spot.

Add in to the mix that the club in question had been in administration twice in the previous handful of years and it added up to a pretty horrific decision.

Of course, nobody cared and we now know why. It was still a decision made to spite our board than out of what was right though.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we don't sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna score in every game 'til Christmas,
And every touch is goal la la la, it's goal la la la,
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 20 May 12:17

We deserved to go down - regardless of the Rangers or Dundee scenarios.

If memory serves the club didn't formally dispute the decision, unlike Hearts.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Wed 20 May 12:43

Matter of opinion that. One relegation and promotion place.

Ross County won the Championship and were 24 points clear of Dundee. They were rightly promoted.

In our league, we finished bottom but another club ceased to exist due to financial mismanagement and, as the courts decided, tax evasion.

One up, one gone. As per the rules at the start.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we don't sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna score in every game 'til Christmas,
And every touch is goal la la la, it's goal la la la,
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 20 May 13:02

interesting article on the bbc news that looked at previous seasons to see if anything really changes from the 30 game to the end of the season, both at the top and at the bottom.

basically in the last 5 seasons, St Mirren, Dundee United, Inverness Caledonian Thistle and Ross County all went down after being bottom at the 30-game mark, only once did the bottom team manage to climb from bottom to the playoff spot (where they survived). so in recent history, hearts had an 80% change of going straight down and a 20% chance of getting a lifeline playoff game to stay up.

so the summary from the BBC is, "Could Hearts have made up the six-point gap between themselves and Ross County, or the four points between themselves and Hamilton Academical in the final eight games? Absolutely, but it rarely happens."

nobody in that same time frame went from 11th to 10th... the odds of hearts getting to 10th were (based recent history) 0%

and by the same token, celtic were essentially bolted on title winners
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Wed 20 May 13:05

I'm sure any statistician would argue that using 5 seasons is a pretty small sample size.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we don't sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna score in every game 'til Christmas,
And every touch is goal la la la, it's goal la la la,
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Wed 20 May 13:08

Doesn't matter what the powers that be decided... Someone was going to lose out.
Can't please em all.
Even voiding the season would have seen Celtic, Dundee United and whoever the other league leaders were lose out.



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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 20 May 14:04

Correct - "no other option" said Doncaster.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Wed 20 May 19:55

VEE it was unjust because we were playing in the same division as the team who was cheating.

Dundee, who weren’t affected by Rangers cheating, failed to finish in a promotion place, and yet we’re awarded a place in the top division at our expense.

We may have deserved to go down - but in no way did Dundee deserve to go up.

That’s what makes it unjust.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot  
Date:   Wed 20 May 20:08

In all fairness they were only 4 points behind with plenty of time to turn it around. I can't stand Hearts but I can empathise with them.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 20 May 20:08

It wasn't at our expense - that's the point.

We were going down regardless of how the vacany caused by Rangers' demise was to be filled.

Dundee were fortunate enough to be in the "right" place at the "right" time. If it wasn't them then it would have been whatever club was second to Ross County.

They came straight back down anyway.



Post Edited (Wed 20 May 20:12)
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 20 May 20:18

BROKEN HEARTS...
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 20 May 21:09

Dundee were promoted to give them 4 Tayside derbies!
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 20 May 22:11

It's absolute nonsense to suggest that we weren't completely shafted when Dundee replaced THEM in 2012. Bandy gives a perfectly good explanation above.

There have been plenty examples over the years of the "bigger" bottom team being spared relegation for various reasons. The only season this hasn't been the case was when it involved us up against a prospective Dundee derby.

Of course the "usuals" will disagree.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Wed 20 May 22:56

Another club might have been saved. We were a financial basket case and so there was no appetite to save us. We were a problem they didn't want and happy to be rid of us and I don't blame them.

The thing that annoyed me at the time was Dundee claiming some kind of moral and sporting victory and not acknowledging their extraordinary good fortune.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 20 May 22:58

"There have been plenty examples over the years of the "bigger" bottom team being spared relegation for various reasons."

Who specifically ?

"The thing that annoyed me at the time was Dundee claiming some kind of moral and sporting victory and not acknowledging their extraordinary good fortune."

Didn't Dundee carry over a resentment at the size of the points deduction imposed the previous season when the Pars won the league ?

They might have won it that season had the penalty been less severe.

Not agreeing with them - just their perspective.



Post Edited (Wed 20 May 23:10)
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 21 May 00:04

I think that was probably Motherwell and Aberdeen.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Thu 21 May 01:44

<<"There have been plenty examples over the years of the "bigger" bottom team being spared relegation for various reasons."

Who specifically ?>>

Really? Again?

There were umpteen examples of the bottom team being saved from relegation, rather than a new promotion being created - all across Europe.

Yes, we were rank poor, and most likely would have had another season of getting pumped, however, the issues were 'precedent' & 'sporting integrity'

NEITHER of which were applied, in the face of gerrymandering 4 Tayside Derbies.

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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Thu 21 May 08:28

"Didn't Dundee carry over a resentment at the size of the points deduction imposed the previous season when the Pars won the league ?

They might have won it that season had the penalty been less severe."

No they wouldn't have. They were deducted 25 points and finished 26 behind us.

As much as it probably helped us get rid of Masterton in the long run, there is no way anyone can see how we were treated that season as fair.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 21 May 08:41

"There were umpteen examples of the bottom team being saved from relegation, rather than a new promotion being created - all across Europe."

I thought we were discussing Scotland ?

What does or doesn't happen elsewhere is irrelevant.

Motherwell did get a reprieve, but that was based on Falkirk's inability to have a stadium which met standards. a condition which all clubs had to meet, and Falkirk had avoided over many years.

It's also worth noting that Falkirk were saved from lower division relegation by the disappearance of the original Airdrie.

The same scenario with Aberdeen if memory serves.

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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Thu 21 May 09:03

When we played Aberdeen, they were given the victories by pathetic refereeing.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 21 May 10:08

The McKimmie back flip onto Moore in the box was a shocker.

I also think someone on here put up the stat that if 3 points for a win had been introduced the year before we would have gone up as champions and if it remained 2 points for a win the year it came in then we also would have won the league.

I know that's the "if your auntie had baws scenario" but it shows you can be unlucky with the timing of some of these things.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 21 May 11:15

In the mid to late 80s, one of the best eras to watch the Pars, I used to go to the games on the Supporters Bus with a guy from school (he knows who he is)

He had us beat before we left the car park every week.

Some folk just can't see anything good about the team they claim to support. Young or OLD...……….

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 21 May 13:34

reading stuff on twitter and other forums i thought it would be tough to beat Rangers fans after recent weeks but Hearts fans are running them very close, this is before Budge has even put her proposal forward too
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 21 May 18:56

When I lived near Tynecastle they often seemed much the same. The billboard by our flat would always feature a three letter abbreviation whenever Celtic came to play...
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 21 May 19:11

Quote :-
Topic Originator: londonparsfan like | nolike
Date: Thu 21 May 10:08

The McKimmie back flip onto Moore in the box was a shocker.

I also think someone on here put up the stat that if 3 points for a win had been introduced the year before we would have gone up as champions and if it remained 2 points for a win the year it came in then we also would have won the league.

No LPF
I think the original post to compare 2 points vs 3 was GG
There is a table online that shows the teams that would have been promoted or indeed relegated if it had been one or the other

Unfortunately we would not have been champions
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Thu 21 May 21:01

No, that's wrong. LPF is correct.

Had it been 3 for a win in 93/94 and all results had been the same we'd have finished top by two points, but with the system that was used we finished second, one point behind Falkirk.

In 94/95, the first season with 3 for a win, we finished second, a point behind Raith Rovers. Had it still been 2 for a win and all result had been the same, we'd have been top on goal difference.

It's easy enough to check.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 21 May 21:15

I'm sure it's right too as I checked whenever the person on here put it up. Cracking fact but I can't take credit for it.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Thu 21 May 21:18

This was pretty much common knowledge at the time.

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I love it when we don't sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna score in every game 'til Christmas,
And every touch is goal la la la, it's goal la la la,
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 21 May 21:33

I'd never seen it - I'm easily impressed though 😂
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Thu 21 May 23:38

Quote:

Socks, Thu 21 May 21:01

No, that's wrong. LPF is correct.

Had it been 3 for a win in 93/94 and all results had been the same we'd have finished top by two points, but with the system that was used we finished second, one point behind Falkirk.

In 94/95, the first season with 3 for a win, we finished second, a point behind Raith Rovers. Had it still been 2 for a win and all result had been the same, we'd have been top on goal difference.

It's easy enough to check.



That's a grim couple of seasons
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 22 May 01:33

Quote:

Grant, Thu 21 May 23:38

Quote:

Socks, Thu 21 May 21:01

No, that's wrong. LPF is correct.

Had it been 3 for a win in 93/94 and all results had been the same we'd have finished top by two points, but with the system that was used we finished second, one point behind Falkirk.

In 94/95, the first season with 3 for a win, we finished second, a point behind Raith Rovers. Had it still been 2 for a win and all result had been the same, we'd have been top on goal difference.

It's easy enough to check.



That's a grim couple of seasons


Made the next one even more special.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 22 May 09:12

Quote :-

Topic Originator: Socks like | nolike Like: 1
Date: Thu 21 May 21:01

No, that's wrong. LPF is correct.



Apologies and stand corrected I am getting mixed up again :(


How relegation would have been affected had three points for a win applied before 1994.

1st to 2nd 1921-22 to 1973-74

1925 Motherwell would have gone down instead of Ayr United and while Third Lanark would still have been relegated they would have finished second last with ‘Well bottom.

1926 St Johnstone instead of Raith Rovers.

1927 Dunfermline instead of Morton

1938 Not only would Dundee have avoided relegation they would have climbed five places to 14th, even finishing ahead of Queen’s Park who were 12th and would have dropped three places. Ayr United would have dropped two places and gone down.

1971 Dunfermline instead of St Mirren

1972 East Fife instead of Clyde. Dunfermline would still have gone down but would have been second last with East Fife bottom.

1974 Dunfermline (for the third time) instead of East Fife

No changes Premier to 1st 1975-1994 so in 66 seasons of relegation, seven changes, three of which would have relegated Dunfermline.

No changes to top ten in 1974-75 that qualified for Premier Division

1st to 2nd 1975-1994

1989 Clyde instead of Kilmarnock

So 19 seasons of relegation in two divisions and only one change would have occurred under three points for a win.

How promotion would have been affected had three points for a win applied before 1994.

1921-22-1973-74

1930 Promoted clubs Leith Athletic and East Fife would have swapped places with the latter winning the title.

1938 No change but three for a win AND goal difference would have seen Airdrieonians replace Albion Rovers on goals scored.

1963 Morton instead of East Stirlingshire.

1972 St Mirren (4th) instead of Arbroath on goal difference

No changes to top six in 1974-75 that qualified for 1st division

1st division 1975-1994

1978 Dundee instead of Hearts

1979 Clydebank instead of Kilmarnock

1982 Hearts instead of Kilmarnock

1994 Dunfermline instead of Falkirk

No changes to 2nd-7th places in 1994 that qualified for the 1st in 1994-95.

Only two changes in 66 seasons to 1975 but four in 19 seasons afterwards.

2nd to 1st promotion 1975-1994

1980 Promoted clubs Falkirk & East Stirlingshire would have swapped places with ‘Shire champions.

1981 Cowdenbeath instead of Queen’s Park

1982 Arbroath instead of Alloa Athletic

1983 Promoted clubs Brechin & Meadowbank would have swapped with the latter as champions.

1987 Ayr United (4th) instead of Raith Rovers who would have dropped to 4th.

1990 Promoted pair Brechin & Kilmarnock would have swapped with Killie as champions.

1992 Promoted pair Dumbarton & Cowdenbeath would have swapped with Cowden as champions.

1993 Promoted pair Clyde & Brechin would have swapped with Brechin as champions.

1994 No changes to 2nd-6th placed clubs that went into the 2nd in 1994-95.
Top



Post Edited (Fri 22 May 09:19)
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Fri 22 May 10:12

Why is nobody suggesting the obvious that will make everyone happy (including the poor.l victimised Jambos)?

Promote everyone and relegate no-one.
It's a win-win for everyone!

A 42 (or maybe 44) team SPL. Everyone plays each other once at a neutral ground. The Old Firm game can be held in a purpose-built 1 million seater stadium in the middle of the Irish Sea. Tickets will be 10 grand each and pay-per-view at least 100 quid. Borders (UK and Ireland) can be closed during.the game to stop the fans coming back.

I can't see any flaws in this.
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Fri 22 May 10:19

Can we have monster trucks at half time and added time multi-ball in the event of a draw?
If so... I'm in 🤣



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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Fri 22 May 10:37

"Why is nobody suggesting the obvious that will make everyone happy (including the poor.l victimised Jambos)?

Promote everyone and relegate no-one.
It's a win-win for everyone!

A 42 (or maybe 44) team SPL. Everyone plays each other once at a neutral ground. The Old Firm game can be held in a purpose-built 1 million seater stadium in the middle of the Irish Sea. Tickets will be 10 grand each and pay-per-view at least 100 quid. Borders (UK and Ireland) can be closed during.the game to stop the fans coming back.

I can't see any flaws in this. "


See the Sportsound thread 5 days ago....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we don't sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna score in every game 'til Christmas,
And every touch is goal la la la, it's goal la la la,
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 Re: Bitter Hearts Fans
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Fri 22 May 13:02

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52758193


Oh dear Jambos 😂😂😂
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