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 Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: DRreturns  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 11:58

As it says, hearts now must prepare for the league starting in October!

I’m hearing Dunfermline voter in favour bid reconstruction!

I’m here to take over!!
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 13:39

Hearts should now do what they said and take legal action. I don’t think their fight is finished.
Hopefully pars did vote for reconstruction.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 13:57

Quote:

dafc, Mon 15 Jun 13:39

Hearts should now do what they said and take legal action. I don’t think their fight is finished.
Hopefully pars did vote for reconstruction.


Take the medicine and go down with dignity. Legal option is non existent.

Member clubs voted it through here, didn’t happen that way elsewhere.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 14:18

Broken Hearts...
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 14:45

No longer Heart of the matter
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 14:49

STV quoting hearts have started legal action. So it appears they believe from their legal advice they do have a case.
Good on them. We would want the same in their position.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 14:54

"STV quoting hearts have started legal action. So it appears they believe from their legal advice they do have a case.
Good on them. We would want the same in their position."

Excellent, Hearts spending their money on lawyers instead of players.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: par_33  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 14:56

I don't even feel sorry for Hearts, Partick are the ones that had a game in hand and were only 2 points behind QoS, that's a bitter blow.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 14:57

Quote:

dafc, Mon 15 Jun 14:49

STV quoting hearts have started legal action. So it appears they believe from their legal advice they do have a case.
Good on them. We would want the same in their position.


Why are you so bothered?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 15:02

Hearts had plenty chance to get out of their predicament but weren't good enough to. Partick were on a roll while qots were in freefall. Falkirk only had to match Raiths results then beat them at home on the last day to go up, so imo they are the clubs hardest done by.
As for hearts, hell mend them. A legal dispute could bust them. This has been a rotten season for Budge's judgements and it coukd be about to get a lot worse.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 15:03

Said it repeatedly, despite signings galore Partick have been terrible for 3 seasons.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 15:04

Quote:

dd23, Mon 15 Jun 15:02

Hearts had plenty chance to get out of their predicament but weren't good enough to. Partick were on a roll while qots were in freefall. Falkirk only had to match Raiths results then beat them at home on the last day to go up, so imo they are the clubs hardest done by.
As for hearts, hell mend them. A legal dispute could bust them. This has been a rotten season for Budge's judgements and it coukd be about to get a lot worse.


Particks record the 6-7 games before lockdown wasn’t “on a roll”, how many games did they win?
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 15:07

Quote:

da_no_1, Mon 15 Jun 14:57

Quote:

dafc, Mon 15 Jun 14:49

STV quoting hearts have started legal action. So it appears they believe from their legal advice they do have a case.
Good on them. We would want the same in their position.


Why are you so bothered?


He is a closet hearts fan. Been obvious for ages.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 15:25


Hearts behaviour is fkn annoying, they've been dogshiet all season and are bottom of the league for a reason, I said it before but you'd think theyd been saving themselves for a sprint finish and been deprived of the chance to produce it.
Pathetic lack of responsibility over their own miserable efforts this season.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 15:27

By taking the SPFL to court, they are effectively acting against the interests of every club. They can ram it.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 15:42

I wonder what type of business person Ann Budge is. She must be difficult to work with. It is a wonder that she is not suing some stall holder in China for causing Hearts relegation. She is the person responsible for their position, she is the one who employed the people that got them bottom of the league.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: The Toun Clock  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 15:52

Initially I didn’t care too much as I want to have trips to Tynecastle next season (hopefully). But after time I do sympathise with Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer. No real issue with ICT, Falkirk and Edinburgh City because they’re not being relegated to a lower division and they didn’t win their league. ICT wouldn’t have caught Dundee Utd and would have had to win the playoffs which is a big ask. Falkirk would have had to better Raith for the remainder of the season which they hadn’t been doing or win the playoffs which would’ve been another big ask. Edinburgh City wouldn’t have caught Cove so would have to win the playoffs.

I feel for Kelty and Brora. Two teams who won their league but aren’t getting the reward that would normally occur. There’s no way they could play off against each other then play Brechin because the teams have now changed and people have moved on, but both should have been allowed to be promoted into league 2.

Im quite glad we ended up in a mid table finish this year because nothing really impacts us apart from who’s actually going to be visiting East End (if any of us can).
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 16:09

Exhibit 1 your honour https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/18372420.ann-budge-insists-hearts-will-accept-relegation-that-community-football-clubs-believe-right/
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 16:43

That's an excellent approach.
"If the clubs vote to relegate us, which they won't do, then we will accept it".

Oops.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 17:35

Boycott...

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188468-will-you-boycott/

Awight Pat!
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 19:31

Quote:

eastendalloapar, Mon 15 Jun 15:42

I wonder what type of business person Ann Budge is. She must be difficult to work with. It is a wonder that she is not suing some stall holder in China for causing Hearts relegation. She is the person responsible for their position, she is the one who employed the people that got them bottom of the league.


She's probably fine... as long as you always do what she wants.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 19:42

Jambos are an angry bunch. Suppose they can vent down at the lodge.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 19:56

yeah, horrible bunch and generally along the same lines as their sevco cousins.

i suppose budge and her attitude fits right in with that mob.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 20:30

Hopefully they get their membership revoked if they take the legal route


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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 20:44

The SPFL is the member clubs, so they are taking all the other teams to court, bitter really they have no chance of winning, just a face saving exercise.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: ft media  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 21:22

Are we still getting our 50K?
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: twin par  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 21:26

She is a very angry and bitter person,hearts is all she cares about.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 21:35

What does Anne Budge and the Scottish Premiership have in common...…...

They are both Heartless
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 21:37

I hope the SPFL rips Hearts to shreds if this gets to the courts
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 21:53

Levein interviewed suggesting the likes of Cowdenbeath will be told where to go if they want to loan a player off Hearts. Explains the state they are in with that guy involved.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Rigger Al  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 22:30

Quote:

jake89, Mon 15 Jun 21:53

Levein interviewed suggesting the likes of Cowdenbeath will be told where to go if they want to loan a player off Hearts. Explains the state they are in with that guy involved.

Sure that was his first senior club
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 22:33

They were just used as an example in his ran...statement.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Rigger Al  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 22:48

Quote:

jake89, Mon 15 Jun 22:33

They were just used as an example in his ran...statement.


Think i would have used a different club who effectivley gave him his break
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 23:00

Would we have taken relegation graciously if we'd been in Hearts' position?
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 23:10

Quote:

wee eck, Mon 15 Jun 23:00

Would we have taken relegation graciously if we'd been in Hearts' position?


Of course we wouldn't. What a stupid and pretty pointless question.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 23:16

Quote:

wee eck, Mon 15 Jun 23:00

Would we have taken relegation graciously if we'd been in Hearts' position?


Like when we were relegated despite Rangers going bust? I'm sure we huffed and puffed but we didnt - to my knowledge - suggest a whole restructure of the league, convince a sugar daddy to put up some funds and then threaten legal action when we didn't get our way.

Post Edited (Mon 15 Jun 23:21)
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 23:23

Out of a matter of interest does anyone know what their legal argument is going to be? Tried to do some reading but couldn't find any real detail on what their case is going to be.

Post Edited (Mon 15 Jun 23:23)
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 23:31

Didn't the legal challenges against relegation in France and/or Belgium have some success?

There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody is wrong.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 23:34

Their argument is... It's no fair... We wiz robbed... Naebody likes us... We're too big to play in the championship... We would have won aw oor remaining games... We're half of the Edinburgh Derby.... Ye cannae do this tae us....
Pick any excuse ye want... Or use them all. 🤣



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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 23:37

Quote:

widtink, Mon 15 Jun 23:34

Their argument is... It's no fair... We wiz robbed... Naebody likes us... We're too big to play in the championship... We would have won aw oor remaining games... We're half of the Edinburgh Derby.... Ye cannae do this tae us....
Pick any excuse ye want... Or use them all. 🤣


Am sure you've been telt a million times not to exaggerate

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 23:46

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Mon 15 Jun 23:31

Didn't the legal challenges against relegation in France and/or Belgium have some success?


No, clubs voted for it here as a members organisation. In France it was the federation (eg: SFA) that made the decision without consulting clubs.

The case won’t get anywhere
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Mon 15 Jun 23:57

Out of a matter of interest does anyone know what their legal argument is going to be? Tried to do some reading but couldn't find any real detail on what their case is going to be.

A few weeks ago, Leslie Deans suggested that the SPFL was "ejecting" Hearts rather than "relegating" them, because the league campaign had not been completed.

He said this was an arbitrary decision by the SPFL, since other aspects of the relegation scenario (the play-offs) were being ignored, and that the clubs owed to each other the duty of doing no harm.

He also said that it had been wrong of the SPFL Board not to have put to the clubs the 14-10-10-10 proposal at the time of the decision to call the Premiership.

He wrote to the SPFL just before the vote, threatening that Hearts might seek interdict against the league restarting and if that is not granted, then suing for £8m.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-have-strong-legal-case-if-they-are-ejected-spfl-premiership-2844719

_________________

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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Ben,D.A  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 00:39

We should all hope for hearts to win this case and expose the SPFL for there corupt worth. Then when the Empress budge has been chosen to run the intergalactis finals between Hearts and w8uhegfue the eight legged champions from star flight 23, hosted on netune and sponsored by Uranus.
Sorry Anne, give up now and give up hearts as your dreams will never come true.

only 11 make the team,the rest can just but dream.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 00:43

Quote:

Stanza, Mon 15 Jun 23:57

Out of a matter of interest does anyone know what their legal argument is going to be? Tried to do some reading but couldn't find any real detail on what their case is going to be.

A few weeks ago, Leslie Deans suggested that the SPFL was "ejecting" Hearts rather than "relegating" them, because the league campaign had not been completed.

He said this was an arbitrary decision by the SPFL, since other aspects of the relegation scenario (the play-offs) were being ignored, and that the clubs owed to each other the duty of doing no harm.

He also said that it had been wrong of the SPFL Board not to have put to the clubs the 14-10-10-10 proposal at the time of the decision to call the Premiership.

He wrote to the SPFL just before the vote, threatening that Hearts might seek interdict against the league restarting and if that is not granted, then suing for £8m.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-have-strong-legal-case-if-they-are-ejected-spfl-premiership-2844719


Cheers Stanza!
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 03:21

Ex-Hearts Chairman says they have a case...must be true then...
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 07:02

Regarding their boycotts, isolating themselves by not offering loan players, wanting to refuse to play in cups, etc and setting the mood music as this is us against everyone else - they become even more sevconian!

This attitude comes from the top, so clearly budge is a threatening, toys out the pram, baby out with the bath water, cut off your nose to spite your face kinda business woman.

They're already past the siege mentality, they're past the no ones likes us, we don't care and next stop is we are the people!

Post Edited (Tue 16 Jun 08:05)
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Pars Athletic  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 08:09

I was listening to the super scoreboard phone in last night and the jist of it was.

If they have a case, they could get an injunction against the Premier league restarting in August. This would mean that sky would hold back the 1st installment of the new TV money and any other installments if its dragged through the courts for months. This would hurt a lot of Premier league teams, and if they somehow won the case the teams that voted against them would foot the bill for it.
But the general consensus was that they will play in the championship next season and look for compensation through the courts.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 08:50

I've read on here that some folk think Hearts could be financially ruined if they lose the case, but is it not likely that they have been promised the backing of their millionaire fan who has already promised a sizeable sum to all league clubs? There may also be other rich Jambos who are prepared to dig into their pockets to ensure their favourites can challenge the SPFL without endangering the club's future.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 09:12

Quote:

jake89, Tue 16 Jun 03:21

Ex-Hearts Chairman says they have a case...must be true then...


My gut feeling was that I thought they might have a half decent case which is why I was interested in the technical argument.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 10:05

"My gut feeling was that I thought they might have a half decent case which is why I was interested in the technical argument."

I'd have thought that with it being the league making the decision through a democratic vote of all clubs, which is in the league rules, and not the Football Association, which was the case in Belgium and France, they wouldn't have much grounds?
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 10:14

Case for the defence?

Did the Chairperson say in April that they'd respect the decision? Yes.

Did the club also vote in favour of ending the season and thus relegating themselves? Yes.

Defence rests.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 10:36

Quote:

Lambo1885, Tue 16 Jun 10:05

"My gut feeling was that I thought they might have a half decent case which is why I was interested in the technical argument."

I'd have thought that with it being the league making the decision through a democratic vote of all clubs, which is in the league rules, and not the Football Association, which was the case in Belgium and France, they wouldn't have much grounds?


That might well turn out to be the case but as Stanza's post alludes to there has been an inconsistent approach in the application of the league rules in scrapping the play off but not relegation.

If it was us in that scenario I think we'd be doing exactly the same thing.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 10:59

Quote:

londonparsfan, Tue 16 Jun 10:36

Quote:

Lambo1885, Tue 16 Jun 10:05

"My gut feeling was that I thought they might have a half decent case which is why I was interested in the technical argument."

I'd have thought that with it being the league making the decision through a democratic vote of all clubs, which is in the league rules, and not the Football Association, which was the case in Belgium and France, they wouldn't have much grounds?


That might well turn out to be the case but as Stanza's post alludes to there has been an inconsistent approach in the application of the league rules in scrapping the play off but not relegation.

If it was us in that scenario I think we'd be doing exactly the same thing.


Nope can't agree as mainly we don't have the funding to take legal action.
We would have huffed n puffed but at the end of the puffing no air left to blow the league down

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 11:53

Are Hearts really going to do this. I cannot understand the logic in a completely pragmatic point of view.
Hearts fans say they will boycott, yet how can you boycott an already empty stadia.
Ann budge wants to take the SPFL to court, when all member clubs made the decision.
I hear trade agreements as if the SPFL is like any other business. It isn’t. In open business, communication between competitors can be seen as ethically wrong if the interests of the individual company not observed. Football is a member club for some reasons I believe. All businesses have self interest to keep afloat. Odd isn’t it. So my point is do they want to be a business or be part of a membership driven club with the advantages and disadvantages.
I read a figure of £8m being ring-fenced by the courts to ensure sufficient funds. Why £8m.
They are they losing money hand over fist with no clear strategy and a win or bust (could it be bust) attitude.
I genuinely don’t understand it. Please help me dot netters.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 12:31

"That might well turn out to be the case but as Stanza's post alludes to there has been an inconsistent approach in the application of the league rules in scrapping the play off but not relegation."

As I said tho, this was voted on and agreed by all the clubs. It's not like the governing body said this is what's happening.... You can't just keep going to court when the majority of club vote in a manner you don't like.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 13:02

Agreed Thaipar.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 15:32

Terrible source but are they even allowed to go to domestic court?

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5648689/hearts-sfa-membership-revoked-court/


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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 18:40

please let that be true! please let that be true!

see how a year out in the cold suits them, have to reapply for membership and start at the bottom, end up even more like their sevco cousins

please let that be true!
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 18:46

it is true, the SPFL have their own sanctions available also.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 18:49

If Hearts and Partick are kicked out of the league their spaces could be given to Kelty and Brora. That way the league would stay the same size. Falkirk and Edinburgh City would get promoted.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 19:16

I'll get excited about it when a credible news source reports it.
It's the super sensational soar away sun min 🤣



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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 19:24

Quote:

P, Tue 16 Jun 15:32

Terrible source but are they even allowed to go to domestic court?

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5648689/hearts-sfa-membership-revoked-court/


There's no way the SPFL will throw out two relatively big clubs, but FIFA don't like courts to get involved in football matters and could well issue fines and/or threaten more punitive sanctions.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 19:55

So if Hearts are punted, do Partick go down, or do Falkirk come up?
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 20:14

Is that the same sfa rules which were in place for pyramid play off as it was a sfa competition.
Only league didn’t comply (spfl) and sfa Done nothing there. Sfa won’t do anything. Sfa membership would that mean just no playing in Scottish cup? As other competitions are spfl?
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 16 Jun 20:37

Quote:

Thaipar, Tue 16 Jun 10:59

Quote:

londonparsfan, Tue 16 Jun 10:36

Quote:

Lambo1885, Tue 16 Jun 10:05

"My gut feeling was that I thought they might have a half decent case which is why I was interested in the technical argument."

I'd have thought that with it being the league making the decision through a democratic vote of all clubs, which is in the league rules, and not the Football Association, which was the case in Belgium and France, they wouldn't have much grounds?


That might well turn out to be the case but as Stanza's post alludes to there has been an inconsistent approach in the application of the league rules in scrapping the play off but not relegation.

If it was us in that scenario I think we'd be doing exactly the same thing.


Nope can't agree as mainly we don't have the funding to take legal action.
We would have huffed n puffed but at the end of the puffing no air left to blow the league down


Actually being to skint to do it would be a problem!
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 07:35

"Is that the same sfa rules which were in place for pyramid play off as it was a sfa competition.
Only league didn’t comply (spfl) and sfa Done nothing there. Sfa won’t do anything. Sfa membership would that mean just no playing in Scottish cup? As other competitions are spfl?"

All play-offs were cancelled, this was part of the vote ending the season.
SFA are the governing body for football in Scotland, and teams need an SFA membership to compete in SPFL.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 11:12

Quote:

wee eck, Mon 15 Jun 23:00

Would we have taken relegation graciously if we'd been in Hearts' position?


I hate when people draw this comparison. Because if it was anyone apart from the Glasgow or Edinburgh clubs league reconstruction wouldn't have even been talked about if anyone did mention it we wouldn't have got to a vote. If we were in that situation we would have been relegated case closed.

c'mon the pars

Post Edited (Wed 17 Jun 11:17)
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 11:21

I asked the question because I get the impression from this thread that a lot of folk on this forum don't like Hearts and that colours their attitude towards them being relegated. Maybe we wouldn't have gone as far as to suggest reconstruction as a way of avoiding relegation if we'd been in their situation, but I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have taken it lying down. At the start of the season you assume you're going to be assessed over the full round of fixtures, not at some arbitrary stage.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 11:35

"We wouldn't have taken it lying down"

Mr Sutton over to you.....

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"

Post Edited (Wed 17 Jun 11:35)
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 11:38

One or two fans,displaying their Anti Jambo bias ,are very quick to dismiss the French and Belgian precedent.

The French National Court ruled in favour of Amiens and Toulouse ie there could not be relegation from Ligue 1. And then the comparable Belgian Court ruled the same regarding Waasland-Beveren and the Jupiter Pro League.

I would be interested to hear from the Pars fans on this site who are Lawyers or Pars fans in those two countries.

If Hearts and Partick Th press the nuclear button and go for interdict,all Scottish football will be suspended.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 11:52

Quote:

Sliema Par, Wed 17 Jun 11:38

One or two fans,displaying their Anti Jambo bias ,are very quick to dismiss the French and Belgian precedent.

The French National Court ruled in favour of Amiens and Toulouse ie there could not be relegation from Ligue 1. And then the comparable Belgian Court ruled the same regarding Waasland-Beveren and the Jupiter Pro League.

I would be interested to hear from the Pars fans on this site who are Lawyers or Pars fans in those two countries.

If Hearts and Partick Th press the nuclear button and go for interdict,all Scottish football will be suspended.


Then if they lose how much compensation will they be liable for?

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 11:57

If who loses?

The Scottish media believe Hearts and Partick Thistle can expect to win around £3m.

I would prefer a Pars supporting Lawyer to comment though.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 12:21

Quote:

Sliema Par, Wed 17 Jun 11:57

If who loses?

The Scottish media believe Hearts and Partick Thistle can expect to win around £3m.

I would prefer a Pars supporting Lawyer to comment though.


If Hearts and Partick seek an injunction and its then found that there case is lost am pretty sure the Football authorities on behalf of all clubs affected would seek compensation.
Just because they have been advised they have a case doesn't mean they will win.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 12:42

Thaipar: perfectly true.

Though Hearts,Partick Thistle and Rangers took legal opinion from Senior and Junior Counsel.

Which sgreed their case was pretty watertight.

That is why one of the Pars supporting Lawyers on this site could offer some expertise.



Post Edited (Wed 17 Jun 12:43)
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 12:44

"One or two fans,displaying their Anti Jambo bias ,are very quick to dismiss the French and Belgian precedent."

That's because it's not a similar precedent. In France and Belgium the Football governing body finished the leagues and relegated teams, here it was a democratic vote by all the member clubs.

I've no 'Anti Jambo bias' just don't believe you can hand out titles and promotions and not have relegation. The fact that if it was hamilton, St Mirren or Ross County that were bottom and we wouldn't be having this discussion doesn't help either.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 12:55

''The fact that if it was hamilton, St Mirren or Ross County that were bottom and we wouldn't be having this discussion doesn't help either.''

That's not a fact, it's an opinion - a common error on this forum.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 13:05

Quote:

wee eck, Wed 17 Jun 12:55

''The fact that if it was hamilton, St Mirren or Ross County that were bottom and we wouldn't be having this discussion doesn't help either.''

That's not a fact, it's an opinion - a common error on this forum.


Agree it is all about opinions rather than facts and not helped by biased and not objective journalism. A bit like Tom English’s opinion on Ross County in “free fall” to back up his league reconstruction agenda.
I used to like Hearts. Been to hospitality at Tynecastle, Bayern Munich game, etc. But unfortunately my opinion has changed and I would love to see them get a spanking off the court, UEFA, SFA, SPFL and other clubs.
However it will be interesting when it comes round to court, but not so interesting if leagues are delayed or they eek out a compensation deal of any kind.
There is one thing for sure, if the leagues are delayed Ms Budge could find boardrooms a bit frosty.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 13:10

"''The fact that if it was hamilton, St Mirren or Ross County that were bottom and we wouldn't be having this discussion doesn't help either.''

That's not a fact, it's an opinion - a common error on this forum."

Very true, worded incorrectly. But, do you honestly believe that if Hamilton were bottom we'd be having this discussion?
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 13:11

the French case could still see the teams relegated, they were ordered to look into other options....which in Scotland they have done numerous times already.

as for the legal advice, Roy MacGregor and Les Gray have sought legal advice and are very confident in the league's decision etc, Donald Findlay QC also agrees with that.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 13:13

"as for the legal advice, Roy MacGregor and Les Gray have sought legal advice and are very confident in the league's decision etc, Donald Findlay QC also agrees with that."

All well and good but Tom English says..........
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 13:17

''Very true, worded incorrectly. But, do you honestly believe that if Hamilton were bottom we'd be having this discussion?''

I've no idea how Hamilton would have reacted if put in that position. I'd be surprised if they didn't do all they could to avoid relegation though.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 14:06

"I've no idea how Hamilton would have reacted if put in that position. I'd be surprised if they didn't do all they could to avoid relegation though"

I'm sure Hamilton would have, as have Hearts, but I personally doubt there would've been any reconstruction committees, never mind votes, if they had finished bottom.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 17:00

Quote:

Lambo1885, Wed 17 Jun 13:10

"''The fact that if it was hamilton, St Mirren or Ross County that were bottom and we wouldn't be having this discussion doesn't help either.''

That's not a fact, it's an opinion - a common error on this forum."

Very true, worded incorrectly. But, do you honestly believe that if Hamilton were bottom we'd be having this discussion?


As stated above if it wasn't hibs, Hearts, the rangers, celtic or Aberdeen nobody would give a toss.

c'mon the pars
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 17:05

Absolutely that. Hamilton would have said all the same things as hearts did initially, not fair, we could have turned out around etc etc (while ignoring the results that got them in that position in tuned first place)

Only difference is they would have been saying that against a completely different backdrop as everyone would have voted through finishing early and would already have moved onto to more pressing matters.

However (even though we all know the conversation on that matter would have ended a long time ago), if we pretend that the same scenario had played out and like hearts, let's say Hamilton:
-said they'd accept the decision of their fellow member clubs and then changed that view
- refused to call it relegation and spun the lines about being demoted in the boardroom
-said they were too big to go down and that their fellow members are stupid to allow the 3rd biggest club to go down and they wouldn't survive without them
-came up with the most brass necked proposal for temporary reconstruction
- jumped up and down and forced the agenda on that same proposal for far too long
- rolled out a big spending pal to offer everyone sweeteners (no strings attached but still through them) to win favour
-turned what should have been the clubs coming together to get through an unprecedented situation, into nothing but a divisory, playground spat
-took legal advice and paraded that as a hanging threat against their fellow members
-completely spat the dummy after their fellow members didn't take up their proposal and rolled out ex directors off football to essentially say they won't participate in loan deals etc, ie they have announced they are to become hostile members of the organisation
-demanded to know who voted against their proposal so they can presumably look for some form of payback / revenge
-and on top of all that, if the Hamilton fans continued that theme and organised campaigns against all the other member clubs with talk of boycotts gaining momentum...

... In that scenario, I think I their actions would colour my view of them and i would develop an anti Hamilton outlook and would love for them to get their comeuppance!

However it's not Hamilton who are being the nasty bully, it's hearts. so right now, I can't stand hearts, hope they get pumped in court and pumped out of the football league!
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Wed 17 Jun 23:39

"There's no way the SPFL will throw out two relatively big clubs"

it would require a vote but they just might depending on the levels of anger towards them, if the Record is to be believed it could become an option.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-partick-thistles-10million-pay-22210164

from the articles of association:
"166. The Company may by Qualified Resolution from time to time and upon such terms and conditions as it may think fit, expel or accept the retirement or resignation of any Club from the League"



Post Edited (Wed 17 Jun 23:42)
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 11:58

The only club that should be aggrieved is Kelty, who I feel have been hard done to.

Hearts have been crap all season and Partick might have caught QOS, but we'll never know.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 12:00

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Thu 18 Jun 11:58

The only club that should be aggrieved is Kelty, who I feel have been hard done to.

Hearts have been crap all season and Partick might have caught QOS, but we'll never know.


Why should Kelty be any more aggrieved than Ayr United or Airdrie?
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: jock-par  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 12:19

Or more so than Brora Rangers? I would like to add that Kelty hardly ran away with the Lowland league and could have been caught by Bonnyrigg

We are Dunfermline, we're on our way back!
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Blackandwhiteblood  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 12:37

Has everyone forgotten why all this happened.
A worldwide deadly virus.
This is causing chaos in everyone's life not just football.
Rumours from the usual suspects don't help. The plus side is that the posts from Sammer and many others are brilliant. Thank you for that folks.
It would be nice if the keyboard warriors can base their posts on facts for a wee while.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 16:57

part of the story in the Record was about letters sent to Dundee Utd, Raith and Cove....

well the Sun are reporting the reason for those is part of the legal action is to have promotion blocked! it all sounds a lot like their plan with Rangers and Inverness before the first vote and the "bullying" allegations came out.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5716731/hearts-court-action-dundee-united-promoted/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1592492641



Post Edited (Thu 18 Jun 16:59)
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 18:11

At least Hearts will be top of the league of something. Shame it'll be the league of scummy teams.
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 Re: Hearts officially relegated.
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Thu 18 Jun 18:38

Quote:

Sliema Par, Wed 17 Jun 11:57

If who loses?

The Scottish media believe Hearts and Partick Thistle can expect to win around £3m.

I would prefer a Pars supporting Lawyer to comment though.


I think most lawyers would be reluctant to offer a legal opinion on a fans forum, especially without access to all the documentation that may be put before a court.

And any lawyer advising a client will give that advice in private (which may differ from any public statement made anyway.)

So I don't think you'll get your wish, Sliema! :)

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