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 Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 16:38

“On Wednesday 17th June 2020 Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers were served with a petition lodged in the Court of Session by fellow SPFL member clubs, Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle which, if successful, could prevent our clubs’ promotions, and potentially have catastrophic financial implications for every SPFL member club as well.

Whilst we are extremely unhappy that we have been drawn into this legal action, we can confirm that we immediately instructed external lawyers to act on our behalf and to protect our clubs’ interests. Since the SPFL resolution was passed by 81% of member clubs on 15th April 2020, which confirmed us all as title winners who were to be promoted, we have undertaken extensive and costly preparations for a new season in new leagues, including obtaining major financial commitments from our supporters, business partners and stakeholders. Our removal from those leagues would be ruinous on and off the field.

We have each had a highly successful season, brought to a premature end by something bigger than our clubs and bigger than our sport. Our status as champions of our respective leagues is not being contested, and nor should the promotion which has always, and should always, come with it.

The legal action that has been raised by Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle not only threatens the financial stability of the SPFL, but also its individual member clubs.

For all of these reasons, we must and will robustly defend our position.

As legal proceedings are now underway, we intend to make no further comment on the matter at this time.”

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Post Edited (Fri 19 Jun 17:09)
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: hudza  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 16:59

What a mess
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 17:00

Hearts are like that mate who when you win says " best of 3 ".
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 17:35

Plus this little titbit hidden away in a dark corner of the BBC Sport Scotland website.....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53091719

buffysbuns.wordpress.com
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 18:02

Quote:

Westies squint kicks, Fri 19 Jun 17:00

Hearts are like that mate who when you win says " best of 3 ".


I know they're organising boycotts... but can't image most teams would be happy accommodating that mob in future anyway!

Post Edited (Fri 19 Jun 18:09)
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 18:03

The Purple Sevco - never their fault always blame others
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 18:17

Both Hearts and Partick have absolutely zero integrity.

Considering the crisis our country and planet are currently experiencing and the trials our sport faces to recover from this, they are locking us all in our cabins as they steer directly towards the iceberg.

I do not want them expelled from the league for this gross humiliation they have brought to Scottish football but my word are they making it hard to justify my patience with them.

DunfyDave

Post Edited (Fri 19 Jun 18:18)
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 18:18

Shame it has come down to this egotistical mess

If the Jambo's and Patrick win what is the bigger picture ?

No relegation must have an impact resulting in No Champions and No Promotions for this season surely ??

Or do we just save Hearts and move on

When the Hibee's were relegated their fans stepped up to the plate and supported them with increased support
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 18:26

I had some sympathy for Hearts at first and could certainly see their point but now they are just losing all credibility and the respect and good standing they had in the game, just like their big cousins in blue
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 18:38

Why are Celtic excused being served this petition ?

Hearts only fancy taking on the smaller clubs - don't fancy mixing it legally with the top dog ?
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: brian  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 18:41

DunfyDave has it spot on

The crisis this world is in with coronavirus means everything else is secondary

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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 18:50

Declaring champions and not allowing promotion doesn’t affect Celtic.
Remember Kelty and Brora were declared champions and spfl didn’t allow them to come into league or play the bottom team.
Spfl have made up and created new rules as they have went along to the detriment of many clubs.
Ending season should not have resulted in relegation, just promotions at all levels.
Everyone acting out of self interest. Hearts and partick are quite right, 14/10/10/10 would have solved this mess, everyone would be a winner.
When you then add on the BT bill for 2.5m plus sky 500k over next 5 years too, something clubs were not told about when voted to
End season.
Shambolic at best. I would imagine lots of clubs will be wishing 14/10/10/10 was still an option, no way does top league start in August. No fixture list will be done whole this is going on.
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: brian  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 19:20

You won't please everyone.
You can't predict that Hearts and Partick would have avoided relegation.

They shouldn't have been in that position if they didn't want to get relegated

Have a lot of sympathy for Brora and Kelty Hearts though

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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 19:48

Quote:

dafc, Fri 19 Jun 18:50

Declaring champions and not allowing promotion doesn’t affect Celtic.
Remember Kelty and Brora were declared champions and spfl didn’t allow them to come into league or play the bottom team.
Spfl have made up and created new rules as they have went along to the detriment of many clubs.
Ending season should not have resulted in relegation, just promotions at all levels.
Everyone acting out of self interest. Hearts and partick are quite right, 14/10/10/10 would have solved this mess, everyone would be a winner.
When you then add on the BT bill for 2.5m plus sky 500k over next 5 years too, something clubs were not told about when voted to
End season.
Shambolic at best. I would imagine lots of clubs will be wishing 14/10/10/10 was still an option, no way does top league start in August. No fixture list will be done whole this is going on.


Totally agree with this. 14-10-10-10 should have been the first thing the SPFL suggested to all clubs back in April.
It satisfied all champions.
It satisfied Kelty and Brora.
It satisfied the relegation dilemma.

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 20:12

Would a way of solving this be to dissolve the SPFL and set up a new set of leagues with current teams being invited to join? Hearts and Partick may find their invites are lost in the post...
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 20:33

I thought 14-10-10-10 was a racing certainty - and then I remembered there's no such thing.

Hearts and Ann Budge in particular, didn't help matters by initially asking clubs to vote for temporary reconstruction, which got most clubs backs up. By the time a permanent proposal was put forward, most clubs had been alienated but there's more to it than that.

A 14 club Premiership would have meant a smaller slice of the TV monies for the top flight clubs - they couldn't have that could they? Club's in League 1 didn't want to lose Falkirk and Partick as they carry a decent travelling support, so let's not kid ourselves that Hearts were the only club acting out of naked self interest.

At least the Pars BoD were unanimously behind the more altruistic vote. Taking out Hearts, Partick and Stranraer, only 13 clubs backed reconstruction. Very disappointing, imo.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Fri 19 Jun 20:33)
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 21:04

Hearts holding the whole of Scottish Football to ransom and pointing a gun to everyone's head is a disgrace. There should be a vote to expel them from the League's. Get them and their rabid fans to **** , absolute stain of a club.

Awight Pat!
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 19 Jun 23:24

"Remember Kelty and Brora were declared champions and spfl didn’t allow them to come into league or play the bottom team."

How could the SPFL allow Kelty and Brora to play each other, then play Brechin ?

All league fixtures were indefinitely halted on 13th March, which is why we are where we are now.



Post Edited (Sat 20 Jun 10:42)
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: PostmanPar  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 02:49

“”Why are Celtic excused being served this petition ?

Hearts only fancy taking on the smaller clubs - don't fancy mixing it legally with the top dog ?“”


I believe hearts are wanting Dundee United, cove, raith and Celtic all to still be awarded their individual championships and the prize money that goes with it, just not promotion!! Hence it doesn’t affect Celtic.
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 03:52

Whilst I hate what Hearts are doing, deep down inside there's a part of me that would be bursting with Schadenfreude if United were still in the Championship next season...

:)
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 08:04

Quote:

OzPar, Sat 20 Jun 03:52

Whilst I hate what Hearts are doing, deep down inside there's a part of me that would be bursting with Schadenfreude if United were still in the Championship next season...

:)


Likewise, I don't like what Hearts are doing but can you honestly blame them? I think the antipathy towards Hearts in particular, is blinding some to the fact that this was a great opportunity missed to expand the Premiership to 14 clubs.

And another thing. Who, in their right mind, would want to sponsor the toxic world of Scottish football right now?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 10:00

I don't think anybody in Scottish football likes the current situation nor the hard manner in which it had to be dealt.

But it did need dealing with and was done so in a fair and democratic manner involving much debate between member clubs with landslide majority.

DunfyDave
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 10:27

It wasn't fair or democratic at all.
Firstly, the SPFL told the lower leagues they must vote to call the leagues or they wouldn't recieve their prize money.
Secondly clubs voting no were allowed 28 days to change their minds.
Any club who voted yes could not change their vote.

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 10:43

"I believe hearts are wanting Dundee United, cove, raith and Celtic all to still be awarded their individual championships and the prize money that goes with it, just not promotion!! Hence it doesn’t affect Celtic."

Thanks - all now clear.
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 11:39

Quote:

AdamAntsParsStripe, Sat 20 Jun 10:27

It wasn't fair or democratic at all.
Firstly, the SPFL told the lower leagues they must vote to call the leagues or they wouldn't recieve their prize money.
Secondly clubs voting no were allowed 28 days to change their minds.
Any club who voted yes could not change their vote.


But changing the whole league set up, increasing the number of teams, so that the team who's chairperson believes that there should only be 20/22 professional teams in the country can stay up, is fair?
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: Parsweep  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 11:48

Quote:

Frank Butchers LoveHandles, Fri 19 Jun 21:04

Hearts holding the whole of Scottish Football to ransom and pointing a gun to everyone's head is a disgrace. There should be a vote to expel them from the League's. Get them and their rabid fans to **** , absolute stain of a club.


Agree wholeheartedly

Bobvo
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 11:52

Quote:

Parsweep, Sat 20 Jun 11:48

Quote:

Frank Butchers LoveHandles, Fri 19 Jun 21:04

Hearts holding the whole of Scottish Football to ransom and pointing a gun to everyone's head is a disgrace. There should be a vote to expel them from the League's. Get them and their rabid fans to **** , absolute stain of a club.


Agree wholeheartedly


Me too. Let's at least have a vote on it.
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 12:06

I understood that partial prize money had already been made to clubs; the final placings would allow the SPFL to calculate where the rest went eg we went down into 6th place and therefore would have received a bigger amount had we remained in fifth.

With regards to the 28 day voting wait this is a common rule in voting structures. The SPFL guidelines clearly state this. Clubs also had the right to change their no vote, which is what Dundee did. (The clubs had been invited to make their vote known by the Friday, to expedite the remaining payments, but this was an informal invitation and they still had the 28 day guideline).

The SPFL is a members’ association and all 42 clubs are members. You may not agree with the voting structure, or the results, but it has actually been fair and democratic, according to the SPFL guidelines.

buffysbuns.wordpress.com
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 12:50

" At least the Pars BoD were unanimously behind the more altruistic vote. Taking out Hearts, Partick and Stranraer, only 13 clubs backed reconstruction. Very disappointing, imo."

Oh come on, let's not try to portray this as those in favour of reconstruction being the good, altruistic people with a keen sense of fairness and those opposed to it being self-interested only with no care for the game generally.

I'm not in favour of it, and I've given the reasons for this and explained the other side of it in a lot of detail over the last few weeks. I'm not minded to repeat all that but there are strong arguments to be made that the outcome as it stands is the one that is least unfair overall and the best that was available.

There are perfectly valid reasons for voting either way and I won't criticise the DAFC board for taking a different view to my own. Equally though, I don't think it's fair that those opposed, including me, should be dismissed as uncaring based on a presumption that reconstruction was obviously the right thing to do. To many of us, it absolutely wasn't.

I'm no great lover of Hearts but I don't have any real antipathy towards them and I've no bad feeling towards the other clubs affected. It's wrong that some want to make out that opposition must be influenced by a dislike of these clubs.

It was a tough situation and there was never going to be universal agreement on what to do. Everyone is entitled to their view, and I'd like to think throughout football generally, we can respect those who took a different view and accept that there were valid reasons for holding that alternative opinion.
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 13:28

Quote:

buffy, Sat 20 Jun 12:06

I understood that partial prize money had already been made to clubs; the final placings would allow the SPFL to calculate where the rest went eg we went down into 6th place and therefore would have received a bigger amount had we remained in fifth.

With regards to the 28 day voting wait this is a common rule in voting structures. The SPFL guidelines clearly state this. Clubs also had the right to change their no vote, which is what Dundee did. (The clubs had been invited to make their vote known by the Friday, to expedite the remaining payments, but this was an informal invitation and they still had the 28 day guideline).

The SPFL is a members’ association and all 42 clubs are members. You may not agree with the voting structure, or the results, but it has actually been fair and democratic, according to the SPFL guidelines.


^^^^ Totally agree. Every club had a say = Democracy

DunfyDave
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 14:58

Quote:

buffy, Fri 19 Jun 17:35

Plus this little titbit hidden away in a dark corner of the BBC Sport Scotland website.....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53091719


So he can sit on SPFL board and do nothing about the bile that comes from the ugly sisters every week, and takes a different stance in Euro competitions?

Bit of a catch 22 situation?🤔🤔🤔
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 15:27

Quote:

Socks, Sat 20 Jun 12:50

" At least the Pars BoD were unanimously behind the more altruistic vote. Taking out Hearts, Partick and Stranraer, only 13 clubs backed reconstruction. Very disappointing, imo."

Oh come on, let's not try to portray this as those in favour of reconstruction being the good, altruistic people with a keen sense of fairness and those opposed to it being self-interested only with no care for the game generally.

I'm not in favour of it, and I've given the reasons for this and explained the other side of it in a lot of detail over the last few weeks. I'm not minded to repeat all that but there are strong arguments to be made that the outcome as it stands is the one that is least unfair overall and the best that was available.

There are perfectly valid reasons for voting either way and I won't criticise the DAFC board for taking a different view to my own. Equally though, I don't think it's fair that those opposed, including me, should be dismissed as uncaring based on a presumption that reconstruction was obviously the right thing to do. To many of us, it absolutely wasn't.

I'm no great lover of Hearts but I don't have any real antipathy towards them and I've no bad feeling towards the other clubs affected. It's wrong that some want to make out that opposition must be influenced by a dislike of these clubs.

It was a tough situation and there was never going to be universal agreement on what to do. Everyone is entitled to their view, and I'd like to think throughout football generally, we can respect those who took a different view and accept that there were valid reasons for holding that alternative opinion.


I agree that there are perfectly valid reasons for voting either way, Socks. Unfortunately, those clubs voting for the status quo, did so mainly out of self interest, imo. Top tier clubs didn't want to expand the Premiership as that would mean less TV monies - clubs in League 1 didn't want to lose Partick and Falkirk. I don't think there's any doubt about that - some Chairman have been very candid about that. Now we'll have a situation which could be potentially disastrous for two middle ranking full time clubs, who may not kick a ball next season.

Of course Hearts would have been the main beneficiary of scrapping relegation and I'm under no illusion that Ann Budge was motivated purely by her club's predicament. I wasn't suggesting that the Chairmen who voted against the proposal did so because they don't like Hearts - it was some posters on here who I feel were against it for that reason.

For our club to vote for a proposal which kept Hearts in the Premiership was unselfish and by extension altruistic, because we'd be potentially turning our backs on two big home gates. It would also have thrown a lifeline to Partick and Falkirk, who were (arguably) unfairly treated. Yes, there was a (democratic) vote, but that doesn't guarantee justice and fairness - look at the Government we voted into power last Christmas.

I can't understand why any Pars fans would be against an expanded Premiership. A 14 club Premiership would have been a step in the right direction and potentially open it up to ambitious clubs like ourselves, who are currently stuck in a Catch 22 situation in that we can't win promotion because we can't compete with bigger clubs with bigger budgets.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: Mr Mac  
Date:   Sat 20 Jun 16:17

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Sat 20 Jun 14:58

Quote:

buffy, Fri 19 Jun 17:35

Plus this little titbit hidden away in a dark corner of the BBC Sport Scotland website.....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53091719


So he can sit on SPFL board and do nothing about the bile that comes from the ugly sisters every week, and takes a different stance in Euro competitions?

Bit of a catch 22 situation?🤔🤔🤔


Its someone who would be seen to have a vested interest recusing themselves which is standard practice. The other nations could argue he was supporting Scottish clubs to their detriment.

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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sun 21 Jun 11:49

GG - sorry, but that doesn't make logical sense to me. If a bigger league is beneficial to DAFC to the point where you can't understand why some of us would be opposed to it, then you can't also say that the same club voted in favour of it out of altruism rather than our own self interest.

As I said, I don't have a problem with our vote even though it's different to what mine would have been. There are valid reasons for either stance but I find it unreasonable to just dismiss those opposed as having little regard for what's best overall, while considering those in favour as being altruistic, ethically sound types.

I know that many people have wanted a bigger league for a long time and will obviously be disappointed that this, for now, has failed. That's fair enough, but it isn't fair to be so critical of the opposing stance without trying to understand the reasons for it. Those who wanted this to go through should perhaps examine their own ethics here, and decide whether or not it was reasonable to use the current situation as a vehicle to force reconstruction. Was it a valid approach or was it naked opportunism?
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sun 21 Jun 12:55

Nailed once again by Socks.
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 21 Jun 15:13

Quote:

Socks, Sun 21 Jun 11:49

GG - sorry, but that doesn't make logical sense to me. If a bigger league is beneficial to DAFC to the point where you can't understand why some of us would be opposed to it, then you can't also say that the same club voted in favour of it out of altruism rather than our own self interest.....

It doesn't make sense if you assume that the club and its fans share the same reasons for wanting a bigger Premiership. I believe that the majority of fans who are in favour of a bigger top flight think that this would increase our chances of achieving promotion and establishing ourselves in it.

Our BoD may also believe that, but I was speaking to one of them earlier in the week and he told me that the club voted in favour of reconstruction because it was unanimously felt that it was unfair to relegate the 3 clubs who happened to be bottom when the football was stopped and also because it would have thrown a lifeline to Partick and Falkirk, who risk playing no football at all next season, a scenario which could see these proud old clubs going under. Surely none of us would celebrate that, even though there's no love lost between us and Falkirk?

These are the altruistic reasons I was alluding to earlier. Clubs at the top of each league would have had their achievements recognised and rewarded, those at the foot would have been reprieved since all fixtures hadn't been completed. There's no way those voting against were doing anything other than ensuring that they don't have to share the TV money with another two clubs.

I hope that clarifies the apparent contradiction in my earlier post.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Sun 21 Jun 15:42

Quote:

GG Riva, Sun 21 Jun 15:13

Quote:

Socks, Sun 21 Jun 11:49

GG - sorry, but that doesn't make logical sense to me. If a bigger league is beneficial to DAFC to the point where you can't understand why some of us would be opposed to it, then you can't also say that the same club voted in favour of it out of altruism rather than our own self interest.....

It doesn't make sense if you assume that the club and its fans share the same reasons for wanting a bigger Premiership. I believe that the majority of fans who are in favour of a bigger top flight think that this would increase our chances of achieving promotion and establishing ourselves in it.

Our BoD may also believe that, but I was speaking to one of them earlier in the week and he told me that the club voted in favour of reconstruction because it was unanimously felt that it was unfair to relegate the 3 clubs who happened to be bottom when the football was stopped and also because it would have thrown a lifeline to Partick and Falkirk, who risk playing no football at all next season, a scenario which could see these proud old clubs going under. Surely none of us would celebrate that, even though there's no love lost between us and Falkirk?

These are the altruistic reasons I was alluding to earlier. Clubs at the top of each league would have had their achievements recognised and rewarded, those at the foot would have been reprieved since all fixtures hadn't been completed. There's no way those voting against were doing anything other than ensuring that they don't have to share the TV money with another two clubs.

I hope that clarifies the apparent contradiction in my earlier post.


If the BOD agreed it was unfair to relegate the three teams, why did they vote to do just that two months ago?

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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 21 Jun 16:23

Quote:

AdamAntsParsStripe, Sun 21 Jun 15:42

If the BOD agreed it was unfair to relegate the three teams, why did they vote to do just that two months ago?


I'm no mind reader, AAPS, but was the SPFL's not offering an option of call the season now and we'll give you the money?

For cash strapped clubs like our own, getting the money released straight away was of huge importance. I think, in some ways, the SPFL held a gun to the heads of the clubs it's meant to serve. I also believe that talk of reconstruction was in the air at that time - in fact, the SPFL said something like "Call the leagues now and we'll look at reconstruction later." The Premiership was only spared the vote then because some idiot officials at UEFA were threatening a European ban on clubs who called their season early - a position they subsequently backed down from when the scale of the pandemic became apparent.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sun 21 Jun 20:47

Right, so it's possible for those in favour of reconstruction to take that view both because of their own interests (bigger league means better chance of getting up) and also a wider concern, but clubs opposed can only possibly take that stance because of a narrow short term interest. And individual fans could only really disagree with your view because of a dislike of Hearts and Falkirk. That's the argument, yes?

Surely you must see that's not a reasonable position. The opposing view has been outlined over several weeks by a few people here (myself, Lambo1885 and DBP seem to be those most vocal about it) so why should that just be dismissed and assumptions made about motive that are entirely different? It just seems unreasonable to take a view, ignore the other side of the argument, and then present a motive entirely different to that which has actually been expressed by people who oppose your view.

Some seem to have taken a stance of 'reconstruction at all costs'. Perhaps I'm wrong, and that some of the proposals would have been less acceptable to you than the existing system? But, I don't recall reading any comment from those of you most vocal about wanting reconstruction that any of the proposals would have been a bad idea.
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 22 Jun 06:31

Quote:

Socks, Sun 21 Jun 20:47

Right, so it's possible for those in favour of reconstruction to take that view both because of their own interests (bigger league means better chance of getting up) and also a wider concern, but clubs opposed can only possibly take that stance because of a narrow short term interest. And individual fans could only really disagree with your view because of a dislike of Hearts and Falkirk. That's the argument, yes?

Surely you must see that's not a reasonable position. The opposing view has been outlined over several weeks by a few people here (myself, Lambo1885 and DBP seem to be those most vocal about it) so why should that just be dismissed and assumptions made about motive that are entirely different? It just seems unreasonable to take a view, ignore the other side of the argument, and then present a motive entirely different to that which has actually been expressed by people who oppose your view.

Some seem to have taken a stance of 'reconstruction at all costs'. Perhaps I'm wrong, and that some of the proposals would have been less acceptable to you than the existing system? But, I don't recall reading any comment from those of you most vocal about wanting reconstruction that any of the proposals would have been a bad idea.


OK, let's nail a few misconceptions and make my position clear:-

I'm not in the "reconstruction at all costs" camp.
I agree that the present 12-10-10-10 structure works reasonably well.
I'm happy to debate with those who have differing views rather than dismiss them.
I think Hearts, Partick and Stranraer (and Falkirk) have been hard done by
I believe a bigger top flight would be healthier for Scottish football.
I think monies from sponsorship and TV should be shared more equitably.*
I believe that some fans let their dislike of a particular club(s) cloud their judgement.
I'm convinced that most clubs voted purely out of self interest.
I'm equally convinced that the BoD of DAFC carefully considered the greater good of Scottisn football, as well as our own club's situation, before casting their vote.

*A far greater issue than the league set up, imo.

I'm aware that you're very much in the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought and I respect that. I also agree that the timing of this reconstruction agenda was all wrong, but sometimes you have to try and grab an opportunity when it presents itself. (Naked opportunism, I know.) A great chance to make changes for the greater good of the game was missed in 2012, starting with the 11/1 vote, when Rangers went bust in 2012.



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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 25 Jun 17:27

Even more of a stramash if this is true.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dundee-united-raith-cove-offered-22248147.amp



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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 25 Jun 19:13

Only winners here will be the lawyers.
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 Re: Joint Statement by Cove, Raith & Dundee United re Court Petition Served by Hearts & Thistle
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 25 Jun 19:41

I thought all clubs were skint because of current crisis?
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