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 Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: kylebrown88  
Date:   Mon 29 Jun 13:31

I wonder if anyone can point me in the right direction here? My Uncle Jimbo's famous claim to fame story at the christmas table is the old one about him playing for Scotland School boys back in the day against England at Wembley in his youth.

It's a bit like the Jim Leishman scoring the winning goal at Ibrox story but maybe been told more times! Apparently it was televised on the BBC, but I can't find footage of it in the obvious places like youtube. I'm wondering if any of you old football historians that often post on here got any contacts etc?

I'm sure he said he scored. It would be great to see the footage. I'm assuming it's sitting in a dusty old archive somewhere in London.

Cheers



Post Edited (Wed 01 Jul 15:40)
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 29 Jun 15:10

Can't help with finding the footage.

I can just about remember seeing the game. I think your uncle must be Jim Brown who lived in Crossford area and who I saw play for Hibs reserves in midfield. I think his goal was a shot which went into the roof of the net.

Bets of luck.
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Mon 29 Jun 15:11

What a memory Sammer!!
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: auldpar  
Date:   Mon 29 Jun 15:23

Jim Brown was/is from Limekilns. I remember watching the game. In fact I'm sure his name came up in conversation when we met in the Seven Kings, Sammer. Roy Barry knew him as they would have been at Hibs together.
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 29 Jun 16:04

Scotland won 4-2 and Jim Brown was inside right but no sign of any footage.
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: kylebrown88  
Date:   Mon 29 Jun 16:20

Thanks everyone, yeah that's him Sammer /AP. Just done a Google search with Roy and Jim's name and stumbled across an old Hibs Squad photo with the pair of them in it. He did say Eddie Turnbull came to the family home to sign him up. Unfortunately didn't get a break into the first team from what I remember, think they had a decent competitive side back then.

Sorry I'm murder with posting html links on this, the guide doesn't make sense to me. Here's the pic....

https://thevintagefootballclub.blogspot.com/2020/04/hibernian-fc-1975-76.html?m=1


I might make an enquiry with the BBC archive service directly, it could be costly for an investigation and result in nothing, but worth a shot!



Post Edited (Mon 29 Jun 18:12)
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Mon 29 Jun 17:43

Hibs had an outstanding team during that period, even though they didn't win much (anything?) Was completely packed with fantastic players, one of their best squads ever- it would have been incredibly difficult to make any impression.

Just at the tail end of a golden era for Scottish teams, be really interesting to see what you come up with!
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: GEW35  
Date:   Mon 29 Jun 17:51

Remember Jimmy Brown well from my younger days in Limekilns. The village was dead on the day of the game, everyone was inside watching the local lad playing at Wembley. When he got on the school bus the following week there was a big round of applause for him! I always felt he was the one who should have gone all the way to the top in the game, Allan Evans was at Woodmill at the same time - in plenty folks opinions (including mine) Jimmy was a far better footballer. As they say “thems the breaks”......
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 29 Jun 18:11

I used to live about 10 minutes from Easter Road so often went to watch the Hibs reserves play.

One afternoon I was watching Jimmy play and some loudmouth right next to the touchline was giving him non stop abuse. If you think a player is playing badly by all means groan and shake your head, but this character was shouting 'That laddie will never be a player. He's putrid!' Not exactly helpful to youngster who would be around 17.

Not being much older myself I didn't have the confidence to tell the loudmouth to shut up but I did make a point of shouting appreciation anytime Jimmy played a good ball. He turned round and glowered in my direction a few times. Jimmy was dropping deep to pick up balls from defence and looking to play Pirlo type diagonal balls to the wings. I thought he looked a genuine prospect since he had good control and a bit of a football brain. Yet the player who made it from that promising bunch was in my opinion one of the weakest: Ally Brazil.
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 29 Jun 18:30

I found a programme for the match on the internet. According to it the Scotland squad was :-

J Lorimer J Brogan A Jamieson G Boyd (c) M Mowat P Carroll J Casey J Brown G McCluskey A Henderson R Ross

Subs - R Tolmie (GK) C Robertson C Williamson R Hannah G Boyd

G McCluskey might have been George McCluskey who had a long career, mainly with Celtic and Hibs, and was born on 19/09/57
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 29 Jun 19:44

Off topic slightly - but boys selected to represent Scottish Schools had to be approved by their headmaster to confirm their regular and punctual attendance, and behaviour/attitude etc.

One one occasion at least this approval was withheld.
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 29 Jun 21:09

WOW never knew that Vee
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: kylebrown88  
Date:   Mon 29 Jun 21:43

Done a bit more googling..

It was likely it was on ITV, I'm assuming there would have been separate regional broadcasts of it.

I've emailed ITV archives for more info!

Further Details:

Saturday, 9th June 1973 - Schoolboys
Empire Stadium, Wembley
England 2 Scotland 4 - World of Sport (ITV)
3:23pm - 4:55pm (all regions)
commentator Hugh Johns
(Coverage began after the 3:05 horse race at Epsom)



Post Edited (Mon 29 Jun 22:05)
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: 68guns  
Date:   Tue 30 Jun 09:57

"England 1 Glen Ellis 2 Roger Wade 3Derek Scott 4 David Bradley 5 Mark Higgens 6 Alan Curbishley 7 David McLean 8 James Scanlon (Cap ) 9 Tommy Langley 10 Ray Storey 11 Shaun Penny subs Tony Maggiore, Robert Fletcher,Alan Hoult, Ray Botham &Harry Holman Scotland 1 James Lorimer 2 John Brogan 3 Alex Jamieson 4 George Boyd ( Cap ) 5 Martin Mowat 6 Pat Carroll 7 Jim Casey 8 Jim Brown 9 George McCluskey 10 Atholl Henderson 11 Brian Ross Subs Ron Tolmie,Chris Robertson ,Colin Williamson ,Robert Hannah & Gordon Boyd The score was 4 -2 to Scotland and if I remember correctly watching it live on TV and Jack Charlton was in the commentry box as a summeriser and he was so impressed by the Scotland captain Boyd who in his words was another Billy Bremner, he went down to the dressing room after the game and signed him for Middlesbrough ."
*Boyd actually signed for Leeds two weeks later*

"This was actually the first schoolboy international to be shown live on TV. The teams given earlier are correct but I think there was only one substitution allowed. Harry Holman was non-playing sub for England and Chris Robertson came on for Scotland replacing McLuskey."

Found this info on an old football forum
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 30 Jun 13:37

Kyle,

I remembered in the pub last night that there was a schoolteacher from Kirkcaldy who had a large archive of tapes (possibly Betamax) of Scottish Schools matches. He was a big shot inside the Scottish Schools set up and often travelled abroad with squads.

He is still around and I am sure will still have his archive which he was always happy to show to others. His name is Bob Docherty and he can be contacted through Kirkcaldy High School since although now retired he still organises some activity within the school. If Bob has a copy I am sure he would be delighted to share it with you.
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: The Roy Barry Fan Club  
Date:   Tue 30 Jun 13:52

I know Brian Ross who played on the wing in that game.

Had a couple of seasons at Dunfermline after coming across from Hibs in the late 70's.

Lived in Portobello. Brother of one of my business partners in the past. Brian did an interview for the Dunfermline Athletic Heritage Trust last year. He is now a manager for a company putting in and maintaining alarms. Still lives in Edinburgh.

Had trials for several top flight English sides, but preferred to stay at home. A series of bad knee injuries brought his career to a premature close.
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 30 Jun 15:02

"WOW never knew that Vee"

I can't divulge details for obvious reasons.

Boys were selected to represent Scottish Schools, not Scotland - that may seem a pedantic difference, however the SSFA's code of conduct policy was well known, as was their requirement for the nominee to have the heads approval.
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: WarringtonPar  
Date:   Tue 30 Jun 15:06

I used to live next door to Jim when I lived in Limekilns in 80s and 90s. I'm sure he got two goals in that game? I can remember watching the game, everyone at Woodmill were proud of him. He did tell me he gave a certain AlanCurbishley the run around. Also note Pat Carroll ex wee team and Brian Ross who I think had a spell at the Pars and were both youth team mates of Jim at Hibs were also in the Scotland side.
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 30 Jun 19:55

Quote:

sammer, Tue 30 Jun 13:37

Kyle,

I remembered in the pub last night that there was a schoolteacher from Kirkcaldy who had a large archive of tapes (possibly Betamax) of Scottish Schools matches. He was a big shot inside the Scottish Schools set up and often travelled abroad with squads.

He is still around and I am sure will still have his archive which he was always happy to show to others. His name is Bob Docherty and he can be contacted through Kirkcaldy High School since although now retired he still organises some activity within the school. If Bob has a copy I am sure he would be delighted to share it with you.


Rector at KHS is big Pars supporter, sits 5 rows in front of me in the Norrie.
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: kylebrown88  
Date:   Tue 30 Jun 20:11

Managed to get in touch with Bob Docherty, he's not got it on tape but he's going to do some investigation work with the Scottish Schools FA etc for me, what a Gent!

Thanks for that Sammer!



Post Edited (Tue 30 Jun 20:11)
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 30 Jun 22:49

Bob won't let you down. If it is there he will help you find it.

I'd love to see Jim's goal again. It was at the right hand goal from TV angle and struck high into the net. If you strike lucky please put online here. You can see the amount of affection we all shared with that moment. I hope you can communicate that to Jim.
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: Stella Kozma  
Date:   Tue 30 Jun 23:53

I know Bob from Wine Tastings in Kirkcaldy. Always a gent. Never knew he was a Pars man.

Makes him even more of a top bloke.



Kirkcaldy Parasites Live On


Post Edited (Tue 30 Jun 23:57)
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 Re: Scotland Schoolboys vs England 9th June 1973
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 1 Jul 01:40

I think Bob's a Raith man actually. But his love of football is genuine despite that.
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