DAFC.net
Home 12 August 2020 
 Post Message  |  Top of Board  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Twitter Updates  |  Log In   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 
[ please login to use the Like feature ]
 Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Parsweep  
Date:   Sat 11 Jul 09:06

Just been announced . He passed away last night . RIP Jackie

Bobvo
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 11 Jul 09:17

Sad news saw him score at Easter Road RIP Jackie
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: General Zod  
Date:   Sat 11 Jul 10:20

He’s a legend in the Republic of Ireland. They’ll be absolutely devastated.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 11 Jul 10:24

Such a genuinely nice fella. Sad to see him go. He was a fine defender and scored a fair few goals with his head at corners. What he did as Ireland manager will never be forgotten and always appreciated.

RIP Jackie.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: wetherby  
Date:   Sat 11 Jul 10:56

Very sad news - Thats 3 or 4 players from that great Leeds side of the late 60s early 70s died in last 3-4 months.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Sat 11 Jul 11:03

Came across as just one of the lads,
RIP Jack

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 11 Jul 11:26

Really sad news.

Jacks' stories about his playing and managing career were always good stuff.

For years I wondered who the 2 players were that he had noted in his wee black notebook - later discovered that Bertie Auld was (allegedly) one, never found out the other.

RIP
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sat 11 Jul 12:11

An outstanding player,a wonderful Manager and a great personality.

Who will ever forget players being eligible for Eire if their Grannie's
budgie came from the Republic?

RIP.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot  
Date:   Sat 11 Jul 12:21

Rest in peace you legend.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Sat 11 Jul 12:49

He should get a state funeral in Ireland.

Awight Pat!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sat 11 Jul 13:06

RIP Jackie, I think most of Scotland was backing you when you were the Republic manager.

matt forsyth

Post Edited (Sat 11 Jul 14:38)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: parfection  
Date:   Sat 11 Jul 13:21

A right good character was Jackie - and a hell of a legacy both as a player and as a coach. His achievements with Ireland were/ are legendary and let’s not forget he had a World Cup winners medal to boot. A life lived to the full I’d say. RIP Jackie.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sat 11 Jul 15:36

Jackie was a cantankerous, opinionated man who could have started an argument in an empty room. Any goal conceded by his team sparked an outburst from him and a great deal of finger pointing. But he spoke a great deal of common sense about football and that larger than life personality served Leeds and England well. It's often claimed that the 1970 England team was stronger than the one in 1966 but if that was true, it lacked the character of players like Jack Charlton and Nobby Stiles.

Jack offered the use of one of his cars to the local striking miners in 1984 and supported them throughout that long fight. His wife worked at a soup kitchen to help feed the miners. His brother Gordon was a miner active in the strike. Jack himself started off in mining but after his first day underground decided that being a 6'3 miner was not a life for him. That turned out to be a good decision.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 12 Jul 14:17

Last night a mate reminded me that Jack didn't make his England debut until the age of 30 in 1965.

Jack may have benefited from Peter Swan's sudden fall from grace after the latter was banned in 1964 following his involvement in the match fixing scandal exposed by the Sunday People.

Apparently Alf Ramsey had told him he was top of the list for the squad selection.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 12 Jul 19:39

Jack was a decent man and good company. His wee brother may have been a far better player, but I know who's company I'd rather keep. Succeeded in management where the dour, introverted Bobby failed miserably.

VEE - I believe the other player in Jack's virtual black book was Johnny Morrissey, a small but uncompromising striker with Everton, when the Toffees were one of England's leading clubs and direct rivals to Leeds who were on the rise under Don Revie.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 12 Jul 20:21

Sounds like you have a story to tell GG. Did you know the Charlton brothers personally?

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 12 Jul 20:25

Spot on G.G.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/mersey-hard-men-johnny-morrissey-3433534
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 12 Jul 22:27

Thanks GG - Morrissey played both legs of the Pars v Everton in the Fairs Cup.

Another rather meaningless piece of trivia about Big Jack - if modern rules had applied in 1966 he might (?) have missed the final, having conceeded a penalty in the semi v Portugal for deliberate hand ball.

Mind you, in those days that wouldn't even have been a caution.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 06:23

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 12 Jul 20:21

Sounds like you have a story to tell GG. Did you know the Charlton brothers personally?


Nah, but I've read Jack's autobiography and Sir Bobby doesn't come out of it too well. Admittedly, I should have read up on both to get a better sense of balance. Another telling fact for me is that Our Kid couldn't stand and barely spoke to George Best. How could anybody fail to warm to the most brilliant footballer these islands have ever produced?

VEE - I think it was Jimmy Greaves who coined the phrase, "getting your retaliation in first", referring to Johnny Morrissey. 🙂



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: parfection  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 09:36

“ How could anybody fail to warm to the most brilliant footballer these islands have ever produced?”

Quite easily I’d say. Yes, he was a rare talent and may well be the greatest player we’ve had in Britain - but he was an inveterate womanizer, a drunk and a footballer with a dissolute lifestyle. Many people have venerated him because of his ability, some have venerated him because of his lifestyle and image, but a great many, particularly those of the previous generation in the 60’s, had little time for Besty and his wicked ways. He was definitely someone who divided opinion.

To me it isn’t too surprising that the slightly dour Bobby Charlton wasn’t perhaps Besty’s biggest fan. Many people have certainly bemoaned what they saw as a reckless squandering of the great gift he was born with. Bobby Charlton was schooled in the 50s and while he was a Busby babe of the tragic Munich generation, he was taught that hard work and application were the cornerstones of success. Neither of these are words we’d readily associate with George Best.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 11:39

Quote:

parfection, Mon 13 Jul 09:36

“ How could anybody fail to warm to the most brilliant footballer these islands have ever produced?”

Quite easily I’d say. Yes, he was a rare talent and may well be the greatest player we’ve had in Britain - but he was an inveterate womanizer, a drunk and a footballer with a dissolute lifestyle. Many people have venerated him because of his ability, some have venerated him because of his lifestyle and image, but a great many, particularly those of the previous generation in the 60’s, had little time for Besty and his wicked ways. He was definitely someone who divided opinion.

To me it isn’t too surprising that the slightly dour Bobby Charlton wasn’t perhaps Besty’s biggest fan. Many people have certainly bemoaned what they saw as a reckless squandering of the great gift he was born with. Bobby Charlton was schooled in the 50s and while he was a Busby babe of the tragic Munich generation, he was taught that hard work and application were the cornerstones of success. Neither of these are words we’d readily associate with George Best.


You make a very good point about Sir Bobby growing up in the austerity of post war Britain, but there were plenty of other team mates of that era who had a very different relationship with Best, (Denis Law practically hero worshipped him) so perhaps it says more about Charlton than the little Irish genius. Nobody would deny that Best was no saint and all the imperfections you pointed out are true, of course, but in the swinging 60s he was mainly regarded as a lovable rogue by the younger generation. Even Matt Busby, who was a good bit older than Charlton, indulged Best like a favourite son and was obviously very fond of him.

Could Our Kid have perhaps been a little jealous of Best's greater talent and unprecedented popularity, which transcended these shores?



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 11:42

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sat 11 Jul 09:17

Sad news saw him score at Easter Road RIP Jackie


I'm intrigued by that statement, BPP. I was at the Hibs v Leeds UEFA Cup tie in the early 70s. Both legs finished 0-0 and Leeds went through on pens.

Did Big Jack score in the shoot out?



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: thenatural  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 11:44

^this^ The trauma of the Munich disaster must have been immense. The loss of his team mates, Duncan Edwards in particular, had enormous, long lasting consequences for Bobby Charlton. Best’s celebrity lifestyle and and approach to the game were completely at odds with someone who came through in a different footballing generation, one born pre-WW2, the other after.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 12:34

I think parfection is very near the mark about Bobby Charlton's relationship with George Best.

Charlton's humble upbringing, combined with his experience at Munich, where he saw his colleagues, including the reputedly fabulous talent of Duncan Edwards, wiped out in an instant, would have scarred him for life.

Always the consummate professional, you could well imagine why he found Georgie's antics grating. He probably thought of Edwards every time he saw Best play up.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 13:11

Quote:

OzPar, Mon 13 Jul 12:34

I think parfection is very near the mark about Bobby Charlton's relationship with George Best.

Charlton's humble upbringing, combined with his experience at Munich, where he saw his colleagues, including the reputedly fabulous talent of Duncan Edwards, wiped out in an instant, would have scarred him for life.

Always the consummate professional, you could well imagine why he found Georgie's antics grating. He probably thought of Edwards every time he saw Best play up.


I wouldn't argue with any of that in mitigation, Oz, but Bobby does come across as a bit of a miserable sod. There may have been other Man U players of that era who couldn't stand Best, but if they did, they hid it well. The Scottish contingent were all very fond of him for starters. The falling out with Jack because he wouldn't visit their dying mother because she didn't get on with his wife, also speaks volumes about his character.

I think it's fair to say that Jack and Bobby, brought up in the same era and environment, couldn't have been more different.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 13:15

I was impressed by the tribute given by the new Taoiseach Micheal Martin on "The Andrew Marr Show".
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 13:38

While the two of them do seem to have been very different, is this not a case of the narrative being set by the loud, vocal people?

Because the chatty extraverts are more likely to speak up, the world is more suited to their ways and behaviours meaning that those with introverted personalities are often left feeling isolated. The phrase 'the dour, introverted...' above is not really a good one in that context, implying introversion is not a good thing. It also seems unreasonable to make any judgements about someone's character based on one side of a particular story, read from a distance. Family relationships can be complex, and I don't think any of us can fairly make a call on that.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 13:41

I think you are being very harsh on Bobby Charlton GG. Two brothers with the same upbringing but with different personalities is one thing but you seem to be hinting that Bobby is a flawed character on the basis of his brothers auto biography. You suggest that Bobby was perhaps envious of George Best's incredible talent. Well maybe Jack was envious of how much better than him at football his little brother was?
Now I don't believe that but I also don't believe that Bobby was jealous of George. As has already been said he probably just seen a man with all this talent and could see he was going to throw it all away.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: WarringtonPar  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 14:01

I think some of the comments on Bobby Charlton are a bit harsh. My daughter worked in the corporate boxes at Old Trafford for 5 years and met Bobby and his wife on numerous occasions and says you couldn't meet a nicer man, always talkative and interested in what you were doing in your own life. She was at Uni at the time and after the summer break one year on meeting her without prompting the first thing he asked was how her exams had gone. She was by no means alone in this he spoke to all the staff and was never stuck up or High handed.

Post Edited (Mon 13 Jul 22:48)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Johan_Cruyff  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 14:12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffxx3sh88Fc

RIP Jackie - If Carlsberg did careers his would be up there !

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 16:03

It's a good job Best could kick a ball, because usually womanising, wife beating a*******s are classed as such rother than "lovable rogues" just because he could kick a bag of wind about it.

Breaking a women's nose in a nightclub? Ach it's alright he can do a stepover!

Stealing money of people he didn't know? Ah well he could put it in the top bins from 20 yards!

Not for me.

Post Edited (Mon 13 Jul 16:04)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 16:20

Quote:

Grant, Mon 13 Jul 16:03

It's a good job Best could kick a ball, because usually womanising, wife beating a*******s are classed as such rother than "lovable rogues" just because he could kick a bag of wind about it.

Breaking a women's nose in a nightclub? Ach it's alright he can do a stepover!

Stealing money of people he didn't know? Ah well he could put it in the top bins from 20 yards!

Not for me.


I wasn't aware that Best was a "wife beater", Grant, nor that he broke a woman's nose in a night club. Were these allegations or was Best charged and convicted for either? I loved his playing skills, but if what you've posted is accurate, it's indefensible and reprehensible. Nor would I excuse him on the grounds of his alcoholism.

Socks, TOWK and Warrington, you all make a good case as to why I may have been rather harsh on Bobby Charlton. I did say further up that I'd only read Jack's autobiography and that perhaps I didn't have the most balanced and objective of views.

Perhaps the bit that I find hardest to digest concerning Bobby was his refusal to visit his mother when he knew she was dying. I just can't get my head round that. Everybody's mum should be a really cherished person, especially in the twilight of her life. She must have been desperately saddened to know that her child did not want to see her for one last time.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 16:22

Football is the great cleanser of sins. Be it on a personal or state level.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 18:13

Quote :-
Topic Originator: GG Riva like | nolike
Date: Mon 13 Jul 11:42

Quote:

Buspasspar, Sat 11 Jul 09:17

Sad news saw him score at Easter Road RIP Jackie


I'm intrigued by that statement, BPP. I was at the Hibs v Leeds UEFA Cup tie in the early 70s. Both legs finished 0-0 and Leeds went through on pens.

Did Big Jack score in the shoot out?


It was the Fairs City cup G.G. around 1968 I was an apprentice printer and two of my journeymen took me to the game as a wee treat He scored with a header with minutes to go.. but fouled 2 Hibs defenders as he barged into the box Colin Stein scored first and the atmosphere was electric that night



Post Edited (Mon 13 Jul 18:19)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 18:24

Just found this G.G.


http://www.ozwhitelufc.net.au/10-01-1968%20Hibernian%20v%20LUFC.htm
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 18:25

George Best is a relatively minor figure (no. 15) in the Footballers Hall of Shame.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/859240-15-footballers-who-spent-time-in-jail

That said, assaulting a policeman is not a good career move.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 18:46

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-why-do-we-ignore-the-abuse-of-women-400397.html%3famp

"When Paul Gascoigne admitted to having hospitalised his wife, Sheryl, "Bestie" leapt to his defence. "We all give the wife a good slap. I know I do"


Just give "George Best - Domestic Abuse" a google GG, admittedly I never saw him at his peak but I find it very, very, very hard to take to him as some loveable rogue when you look at his history, to me he comes across as an utter be!!end.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/fionola-meredith/fionola-meredith-remembering-george-best-as-both-a-deeply-flawed-man-and-a-fabulous-football-genius-37502831.html

"He repeatedly beat up his wife, Alex. Not long after they married at Chelsea Register Office in 1995, Alex woke up in the middle of the night to find her inebriated husband hacking off her hair with a pair of scissors and scribbling on her skin with a black marker pen"

https://www.newstatesman.com/node/163369

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk/1999/nov/28/deniscampbell.theobserver

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fampeople.com/cat-george-best_3%3famp

"Earlier in the book it is revealed that he struck another of his girlfriends at least once and was arrested and charged with assault on a waitress, Stevie Sloniecka, in November 1972, when he fractured her nose in Reuben’s nightclub, Manchester.Lovejoy, Joe (1998), "Bestie", Pan, pg 236 He was successfully defended when the case reached court in January 1973 by barrister George Carman QC, a close drinking companion of Best, as acknowledged in his book, Scoring at Half Time."
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 19:01

Pal reminded earlier of an old Cascarino story from USA 94.

Apparently the bus was drawing up to stadium ahead of the Italy game and all you could see was a sea of green and white with thousands upon thousands a of Irish fans swarming all over the place. Big Jack apparently then turns to Cascarino and says "For f*ck sake, Tony, you must be the only Italian here".

---------------------------------------------------------------


"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 20:49

I'm genuinely shocked at my ignorance of many of the revelations concerning George Best, above. I did know he spent some time in jail after a drunken altercation with a policeman, but none of the others. I think my schoolboy infatuation with Best the footballer has somehow contributed to erasing any nasty stories circulating about him in the press. It's called a scotoma - we hold on to what we like and forget what we don't.

Cracking tale 're Big Jack, TAFKA.

Eta. Thanks for clearing up my confusion BPP. I didn't know Hibs had drawn Leeds twice in Europe. I only went to watch them when the Pars dropped out.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Mon 13 Jul 20:51)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 21:15

No worries G.G. I just checked the attendance that night and it was 40,000 no wonder the place was buzzing

I can also remember a wee hibs supporter in front of us with no teeth in and the linesman flagged for a hibs offside

So he shouts ... aw lineshmin yer nothin but a bashtard .... True
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 08:49

Are you sure that wasn’t Sean Connery berating the linesman ?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Jackie Charlton
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 15:47

LOL vee ....He then started to call the ref Humphy Dumphy for reasons which i never understood Then shouted Aw Humphy Dumphy whaur dae ye come fae ..True ...he kept us amused all night :)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Top of Board  |  Forum List  |  Threaded View   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 


 Forum List  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Security : type 'pars' in the box:
email:
© 2020 -- DAFC.net