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 Views on the season finishings and the goings on wth hearts, jags and united etc
Topic Originator: Darrenwntr1984  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 21:34

Hi guys fairly new to.net again what's your view on what's going on with the Scottish game can I ask do hearts have a case do you think ? And thoughts on united setting up a donation page to help the fight on there side and our Fife nabs etc, don't really understand it myself can someone enlighten me .

Cheers.

Darren winter
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 Re: Views on the season finishings and the goings on wth hearts, jags and united etc
Topic Originator: 13en  
Date:   Mon 13 Jul 22:32

Seasons ended in a way nobody could of ever predicted, going off the average points per game is the most fair way to determine the season as all games were cancelled for the foreseeable future and rightly so as people’s health is worth far more than a game of football. If hearts and thistle weren’t relegated and it was Alloa and hearts I find it difficult to believe we would be having these court cases.
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 Re: Views on the season finishings and the goings on wth hearts, jags and united etc
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 07:07

13en, I think that you probably meant Hamilton and Alloa. However it would probably have been the same if it had been Livingston or Ross County and Arbroath.

matt forsyth

Post Edited (Tue 14 Jul 07:08)
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 Re: Views on the season finishings and the goings on wth hearts, jags and united etc
Topic Originator: 13en  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 14:13

My bad yeah alloa and Hamilton just because it’s hearts and thistle doesn’t mean they should be more privileged than any other club, they were both bottom of the league for a reason and now have to face the consequences for it
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 Re: Views on the season finishings and the goings on wth hearts, jags and united etc
Topic Originator: Mr P  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 14:57

What has happened is unprecedented and as it happened, the League had to decide what to do. A vote was taken and it was agreed albeit under difficult circumstances and was a bit of a dogs dinner so to speak in the end.

Then we had the reconstruction of the leagues to allow a bit of status quo in positions, again this was voted out more than once. the only ones to suffer here in my opinion were Kelty Hearts and Brora Rangers.

so if we go to a vote and a majority agree then that should be the end of it, first we had The Rangers trying to stir it up ( for obvious reasons) with a smokescreen. Ann Budge decided to run with plan after plan, then this involve Partick.

This whole fiasco of voting favouring the elite is now a nonsense as they will vote with £ signs in their eyes and the excuse of how do we pay extra prize money? Again another smokescreen as far as I am concerned. Brechin were lucky to get just over £3k if I recall is correct why cant we find another 5-6K for the next two clubs coming in.

If we increase the league to 14 and have an automatic relegation of two and a play off we could generate extra money with a one off game at Hampden for the third bottom and top. No parachute payments either as this would fund the prize money moving forward.

Most Hearts fans I spoke with and I would say a high 90% say they don't deserve to be in the top League they all say that AB is wasting time and money and they fear for the season coming.

Unfortunately in Scotland there must be a very high percentage of prize money going to two teams, they also dwarf clubs in crowd money too. the voting is rigged to give them the final say and they will never agree so we till have the problem---nothing changes.

the solution is the SFA and the SPFL need to work hard at being there for all clubs not just the big two. Grow a set and dictate what will happen, not be dictated to. with Hearts and Partick I would have demoted them to the bottom league for undermining Scottish Football and if they complained let them the rules need to be tightened to stop all this nonsense and perhaps we can have a league that is competitive and worth watching and be proud of. We as a country have suffered with the ten, twelve set up as look at the national team, when was the last time we were able to hold our heads high and be proud of the scottish team.

Anyway you asked the question and I feel better now Rant over.
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 Re: Views on the season finishings and the goings on wth hearts, jags and united etc
Topic Originator: mars par  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 14:58

I still think it's a horrible outcome for anyone who gets relegated by a compromised competition. The format is dictated from the start, if that changes then no-one should lose potentially millions of pounds based on a "well you were closer so..."

I can't understand the fans who think Hearts and Partick are in the wrong by suing the other clubs. We collectively turned our backs on them and voted for unfair devastation on the part of Hearts, Partick and more simply because it saved the rest a bit of money. I'd want Dunfermline to be doing the same were we in their position

League reconstruction would have meant the burden was shared, Scottish football chose increased uncertainty and financial disaster for an unfortunate few

This is a sad sad period for Scottish Football
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 Re: Views on the season finishings and the goings on wth hearts, jags and united etc
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 15:05

What I dont understand is why utd and raith have to fight in court, SPFL made the decision to promote them without the season getting played to a finish. Surely it should be the SPFL going through court proceedings rather than the clubs.

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: Views on the season finishings and the goings on wth hearts, jags and united etc
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 15:23

Quote:

mars par, Tue 14 Jul 14:58

I still think it's a horrible outcome for anyone who gets relegated by a compromised competition. The format is dictated from the start, if that changes then no-one should lose potentially millions of pounds based on a "well you were closer so..."

I can't understand the fans who think Hearts and Partick are in the wrong by suing the other clubs. We collectively turned our backs on them and voted for unfair devastation on the part of Hearts, Partick and more simply because it saved the rest a bit of money. I'd want Dunfermline to be doing the same were we in their position

League reconstruction would have meant the burden was shared, Scottish football chose increased uncertainty and financial disaster for an unfortunate few

This is a sad sad period for Scottish Football


That nails it for me. The top flight is unbalanced pre split in the number of games home and away at the best of times and Hearts had also played all their games against Rangers and Celtic whereas some above them hadn't.

They could very easily have avoided relegation if the season had played to a finale. Unsurprisingly clubs voted to suit themselves on the whole and those that were avoiding relegation and getting their payouts were happy to vote to end the season knowing full well they wouldn't go down and knowing they would get money coming in. For me it was the worst out of 3 bad options. If all promotions and relegations were essentially going to be formalities then it might have been the best option but I'd be expecting our board to do the same too in the circumstances.
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 Re: Views on the season finishings and the goings on wth hearts, jags and united etc
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 16:11

I too can understand why Hearts and Partick fought this and would have expected our board to do the same if we had been in their position. It could all have been avoided if the rules of the SPFL had included a provision to cover the possibility of the season having to be suspended for reasons which could not be anticipated. I'm surprised there has been no suggestion to include such a provision now in case a similar situation should arise again but maybe the clubs like having the latitude to play things by ear.
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 Re: Views on the season finishings and the goings on wth hearts, jags and united etc
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 16:40

That's just far too sensible mate.
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 Re: Views on the season finishings and the goings on wth hearts, jags and united etc
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 17:44

Totally disagree mars par.

For one thing, this is an unprecedented situation. Is it a touch unfair? Perhaps. But a lot less unfair than people losing their jobs in the entertainment industry, catering, etc., people having to postpone weddings and holidays and of course people losing loved ones.

Second, suing the other clubs is a huge no-no. Not only does it go against all the usual norms (FIFA don't take too kindly to taking governing bodies to court, they prefer the arbitration route all the way to CAS if needed) but it pits club vs. club and fan vs. fan in a way that just seeds division. Many clubs who can't afford any extra outgoings at this time being forced to fund legal cases? Monet potentially being taken out of the main pot to pay for compensation and to pay legal fees? How does that help the other clubs in Scotland? Someone like Stenhousemuir have no skin in this game but could potentially lose out on a fair whack if Hearts get a lot of compensation and the SPFL have to pay legal fees.

People say that the other clubs voted out of self interest. Of course they did! What do think Hearts et al are doing? Had Hearts beat St Mirren in their final.game and went above them, would they be crying about reconstruction? Of course not. Anne Budge has already upset plenty in the game by suggesting that there are too many clubs in the game. Their press release screamed of "it's no fair!!! We're too big to go down" and laughably mentioned that they'd spent big trying to get out the hole they'd dug for themselves.

In terms of reconstruction, their 14-10-10-10 plan was bad enough and their 14-14-14 plan was even worse. A 14 team league with a split after 26 games would be a nightmare with too many teams having dead rubbers and missing out on big crowds after the split. It would also need a change to the distribution of the prize money so there would be a big hit for all the clubs in the top flight unless they kept the percentages (which would have the knock on effect of reducing the Championship prize fund and of course money would have to be found for the extra two clubs in the first model). Arguably the best compromise would have been a 12-12-10-10 - Kelty and Brora would come up, Partick and Stranraer would be saved, Falkirk and Edinburgh City would come up...the only losers would he Hearts (relegated) and the likes of Inverness, Ayr, Dundee, Elgin and the others who could have been involved in the play offs. Still unfair, but probably more fair than the current solution and it also avoids a stupid 14 team league with insanely timed split. There are multiple reasons why the clubs themselves voted against the reconstruction plans put forward - they were a terrible solution that made things worse for the majority of clubs and benefitted only a few (no surprises it was Hearts, Patrick, Stranraer and the likes of Falkirk and Inverness, almost everyone else was disadvantaged).

Lastly, in terms of Hearts having a chance of getting out of it had the league been played -it was impossible to play the rest of the season anyway for about a million reasons - of course they did, but I've got a chance if a dirty weekend with Kelly Brook. Doesn't mean it's likely. Hearts have been dung all season other than the big derbies and games v Rangers. Their form was the worst of the bottom six before the league ended, and their head to head record against the bottom six clubs who they'd be playing again after the split was the worst of the lot. They had a chance to get off the bottom before the shutdown and blew it away to St Mirren. They were by far the worst team in the division and were relegated on sporting merit, which is what UEFA demanded if leagues had to be called. I suppose I have a little more sympathy with Partick since they had played a game less but again on PPG, by form (their record since New Year is abysmal) and every other metric has them bottom for a reason. Maybe if they suggested the 12-12-10-10 model they might have been saved but they hitched their wagon to the Hearts vanity project and in the end they'll have to go down.

TL; DR - its not perfect but Hearts et al just need to take their medicine.
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 Re: Views on the season finishings and the goings on wth hearts, jags and united etc
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Tue 14 Jul 18:14

Quote:

Mr P, Tue 14 Jul 14:57

What has happened is unprecedented and as it happened, the League had to decide what to do. A vote was taken and it was agreed albeit under difficult circumstances and was a bit of a dogs dinner so to speak in the end.

Then we had the reconstruction of the leagues to allow a bit of status quo in positions, again this was voted out more than once. the only ones to suffer here in my opinion were Kelty Hearts and Brora Rangers.

so if we go to a vote and a majority agree then that should be the end of it, first we had The Rangers trying to stir it up ( for obvious reasons) with a smokescreen. Ann Budge decided to run with plan after plan, then this involve Partick.

This whole fiasco of voting favouring the elite is now a nonsense as they will vote with £ signs in their eyes and the excuse of how do we pay extra prize money? Again another smokescreen as far as I am concerned. Brechin were lucky to get just over £3k if I recall is correct why cant we find another 5-6K for the next two clubs coming in.

If we increase the league to 14 and have an automatic relegation of two and a play off we could generate extra money with a one off game at Hampden for the third bottom and top. No parachute payments either as this would fund the prize money moving forward.

Most Hearts fans I spoke with and I would say a high 90% say they don't deserve to be in the top League they all say that AB is wasting time and money and they fear for the season coming.

Unfortunately in Scotland there must be a very high percentage of prize money going to two teams, they also dwarf clubs in crowd money too. the voting is rigged to give them the final say and they will never agree so we till have the problem---nothing changes.

the solution is the SFA and the SPFL need to work hard at being there for all clubs not just the big two. Grow a set and dictate what will happen, not be dictated to. with Hearts and Partick I would have demoted them to the bottom league for undermining Scottish Football and if they complained let them the rules need to be tightened to stop all this nonsense and perhaps we can have a league that is competitive and worth watching and be proud of. We as a country have suffered with the ten, twelve set up as look at the national team, when was the last time we were able to hold our heads high and be proud of the scottish team.

Anyway you asked the question and I feel better now Rant over.


Guid rant Graham
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