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 Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 07:46

At various times during the lockdown and throughout last season, there were any number of threads on this forum relating to our goalkeeping position. Posts on the relative merits of Cammy Gill, Ryan Scully and Owain Fon Williams. Posts too, on goalkeepers the Pars should try and bring in.

Now everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think some of these posts are a bit disrespectful to Gill. He's now 22 and has been at EEP since he was 8. He's waited patiently on his chance, but has been used mainly as a back up since he signed professional forms in Jan 2017. During that time he has made 11 first team appearances.

Last season, he started in place of the out of form Scully and did quite well, but in the game at Tannadice he held his hand up for the two goals conceded in a 2-0 defeat and accepted he was rightly dropped. He got another chance and again did OK, but after a 1-0 win at Ayr, he was left out for Scully in a 4-3 defeat at Dens. When Scully's form failed to improve, the Pars brought in Williams and Gill remained on the bench.

As I see it, the time has now come to give Cammy an extended run as our No. 1. If the season starts in October, he should get at least until January to show he's good enough to hold down a place. If it doesn't work out, the manager can then bring in another goalie. Alternatively, if the management don't feel he's ready for an extended run at this level, he should be sent out on loan to a lower league club, where they can guarantee him first team football. He's not going to get any better sitting on the bench every week.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Gareth Keenan Investigates  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 08:02

Wrong season to be bedding in a young keeper if we are going to make a genuine attempt at going up. We can't afford to give him until January if we are only playing twenty seven games.

I liked what I seen in some parts but as with any young inexperienced player mistakes do happen which over a shortened season we can't afford. Loan him out and bring him back with a 'full' season as someone's number one and both ourselves and himself will reap the benefits imo.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 08:04

Agree with much of what you say there, GG. But, I just don't think he's what we need this season if we are chasing promotion.

I think he should be loaned out to a League One side to get some first team experience, but that will mean bringing in two goalies with more on their CV.

We are not going to risk young Ben Swinton as cover in a season where we should be chasing and expecting points in every single game.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Thaipar  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 08:20

Agree with the horsey fella. Gill must be given a chance. We have a very strong team on paper. It's up to the guys on the park to protect Gill.

Please don't book me Admin, it will ruin my life.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 08:32

a new no1 is needed, if we can afford another keeper as well and loan out Gill to someone who will play him then fair enough but id expect him to be the no2 again.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 08:41

Need a new No1.
Gill no where near ready
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: livipar2  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 08:53

He needs to play regularly whether it be with us or elsewhere. Can’t help but feel he has been messed around a bit by a succession of Pars managers. He should have been out on loan and playing games even if it was at junior level. For someone his age he has he has so little match experience.

Mon the Pars!!!!!!!!!!!
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: DBA  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 09:02

Based on his performances last season, Gill is not ready for Championship football. For me, he needs a season as number 1 in League 1/2 to get that experience under his belt then we reassess next year.

We need a new keeper for this season - if we get a solid keeper, we could be in for a very good season.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: DunfyDave  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 09:15

Quote:

DBA, Fri 17 Jul 09:02

Based on his performances last season, Gill is not ready for Championship football. For me, he needs a season as number 1 in League 1/2 to get that experience under his belt then we reassess next year.

We need a new keeper for this season - if we get a solid keeper, we could be in for a very good season.


^^^^^ Totally agree

DunfyDave
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 09:51

It’s been unfortunate in recent times we don’t have the squad to have more keepers on the books which would have meant gill could have been loaned out.

He’d be in a much better position if he had been loaned out for at least a season by now.

Looked raw when I saw him last season. But again as we saw with some of our previous youngsters, game time does not automatically improve players or turn players into championship standard if they are not good enough.

Just sitting here drenched in my own negativity!
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 10:08

Quote:

Berkey, Fri 17 Jul 09:51

Looked raw when I saw him last season. But again as we saw with some of our previous youngsters, game time does not automatically improve players or turn players into championship standard if they are not good enough.


Can't disagree with this, but a run of games will either improve him or show that he's not yet ready. Do you think Gill will become a better goalie just by sitting on the bench every week?


Yours is by no means the only hard, ruthless assessment on this thread, Berkey. He's started a total of 11 games. It would be interesting to know how many of these games, you and the other posters who have been critical of him him, have actually seen. I'm not saying he is or isn't good enough, but unless he is given an extended run, we'll never know.

I also find it astounding to read about us "pushing for promotion" next season, with lots of new players who may or may not gell quickly and before a ball has been kicked.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: RMGpar  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 10:15

If he drops down to league one and plays regularly as a number 1 he will come back stronger.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: parsfan97  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 10:56

We definitely need a new keeper in, don't see how anyone can argue that we don't need a new no 1 in. Gill definitely should be loaned out to get the experience he needs, however finances will mean he is probably staying as back up. We should be aiming for top 4 and that should really be the minimum for us IMO, building a decent squad together
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 11:25

Bottom line, if there is a better keeper available and he is affordable then Cammy is number 2. Should go out on loan to get more experience with a recall in case of injury clause. We wont pass up on a better keeper and hope someone is available in Jan if Cammy doesnr make the grade.

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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 11:32

I'd like us to do well this season so for that reason I hope Gill plays as little as possible tbh. He wasn't very good at all.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 11:34

I can see both sides of the coin here and genuinely feel for the boy He made some outstanding saves when between the sticks ...aye he also made mistakes ...but so did most of the players ...The best keepers in the world make mistakes
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 11:43

Of course stats aren't everything and I stand to be corrected on this but I'm sure in terms of goals conceded per game last season he was exactly the same as OFW. 12 conceded in 12 for Gill and 6 in 6 for OFW. In the last 4 league games Gill played we won all 4 beating Partick, Ayr, Morton and Dundee conceding 2. I felt the team as a whole was more solid, particularly at set pieces when Murray returned and Gill didn't play when he was in the side. Of coursed he showed a couple of nervous moments early on as it was the chance he had been waiting on for years and finally it was here-probably trying too hard to impress.If there is a pre-season I wouldn't be against him playing a few games and seeing how he copes.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 11:56

That’s the harsh reality of being a goalkeeper. It’s not like a backup outfielder, where you get experience coming off the bench etc. What we saw last season, was that Gill is not ready to be number 1, in a team challenging towards the top of this division. There is no point in spending money strengthening every other area of the team, so that they are ready to challenge for promotion, only to leave us with a goalkeeper who is not at that standard just now.

The message from the recent signings seems to be that we now want to be challenging for promotion. Therefore, it would be counter-productive to then stick with a goalkeeper who isn’t ready to be a part of a promotion-challenging team. Unfortunately, mistakes happen with younger/less experienced players. But mistakes from goalkeepers cost more points than mistakes in other positions. It would be ideal if we can loan him out, but I’ll be disappointed if we don’t bring in a more experienced/higher quality of keeper.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: wulliepar57  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 12:11

Unfortunately a goalkeeper is probably under the spotlight more than anyone else one mistake can lose you the game ! most other positions you get away with this
And for me when Cammy got his chances he didn't take it with both hands (no punt intended ) he had a reasonable game and save here and there but unfortunately most games were littered with mistakes ( due to lack of game time? and confidence ), i think there is a goalkeeper in him so would like to see him get game time in league 1 where he is playing every week and getting the confidence he really needs , but it will probably be like last season because we didn't have the cover, If we are going to try and win/be in play offs and remember it is only 27 games there is not really any margin for error this season we need to hit the ground running so this said the lad will probably warm the bench and learn nothing because if we bring an experienced goalkeeper in he will be the back up , He is getting older so really needs to get out and command a position in another team where he is playing every week to boost his confidence and push for that Number 1 spot with the Pars
either way good luck to him
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 12:16

Last 9 league games that he played in


Won 6 Drawn 2 Lost 1(Dundee Utd where he made a mistake and the only loss away at runaway winners.)

We got 2.22 points per game in that period. Dundee Utd who were 14 points clear in the end averaged 2.107 points per game over the season! Is that not form capable of promotion?
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 12:16

I agree with Par-91. I think the fact that the management team chose to bring in a more experienced keeper on loan tells the story tbh. It's tough on him but other players have had to go backwards to go forwards and I fear he'll need to do the same.
I get what you're saying about people being optimistic when they talk about their expectations for the season but when you sign all these premier league players it's inevitable.

Post Edited (Fri 17 Jul 12:19)
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 12:20

Good keepers play well into their late thirties. He could still have a long career ahead of him.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 13:33

He's in a strange position, 22 is youngish for a 1st team keeper, not quite ready for 1st team (not far off either) but being on the bench for a whole season is not good either.

He easily has 15 years of football still in him, so a loan, even to league 2 or lowland would do him and the club a power of good- he just needs experience and a run of games.

Got to say though, would prefer our first choice to be an established keeper this coming season.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Angus_W  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 13:57

I dont doubt C Gills ability in goals.

I do question his physical presence in the box. In the Championship forwards tend to bully opposition keepers if they think they can get away with it. Scully was the same.

OFW - Within 10 minutes of his debut at Palmerston he flattened the CF in a challenge. Made his mark & that was the end of that.

If your Goalkeeper is intimidated he starts to flap followed by the defence. At this level I'd take experience & a physical presence in the box every time.

🔩 ya 🚀
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Ladswell_Thistle  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 14:18

He has been a bit unfortunate. He definitely has what it takes ( going by the game away at Ayr when he was brilliant especially second half) but it's a tough position where you're expected to perform every week and any mistake is probably multiplied as it probably costs a goal. Difficult when you are only 22 with not a lot of first team experience. The only way to get that is by playing games though.



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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Rigger Al  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 14:49

Hes a good promising lad but we need an experienced keeper his tim will come for sure
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: DBA  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 14:49

Quote:

parathletic, Fri 17 Jul 12:16

Last 9 league games that he played in


Won 6 Drawn 2 Lost 1(Dundee Utd where he made a mistake and the only loss away at runaway winners.)

We got 2.22 points per game in that period. Dundee Utd who were 14 points clear in the end averaged 2.107 points per game over the season! Is that not form capable of promotion?


As a team, yes it is. However as we all know, even winning teams can have passengers so you can't judge team performances when speaking about an individual.

I'd like to add I'm definitely not calling Gill a passenger in those game at all. Just saying that team stats don't really mean much when talking about an individual.

I'm sure every Pars fan would love any youngster coming through our youth system to make it. There's certainly no animosity to Gill, it's purely people judging his development so far.

As I said before, I just think he needs a season as number 1 in a lower league to develop. It's a big step up to Championship football and he just didn't seem ready last year. I would love to be proved wrong!
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: AB Loyal  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 15:06

I'd put faith in him.

The Prophet - 12/07/18, 13/06/19, 10/07/20
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: gordi-b  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 15:49

As said before , physical presence is a must for a keeper in our division , afraid Cammy is a bit lacking in that department

G.B
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Bannockburn Par  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 16:02

Crawford said in his latest interview that there was still one position he was looking to strengthen, he didn’t elaborate which one. I imagine that we are definitely looking to add another keeper.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 16:03

Quote:

AB Loyal, Fri 17 Jul 15:06

I'd put faith in him.


I'm encouraged by your post, AB, as I think you are a guy with an ear close to the ground. 🙂 The way I read your comment, is that he's going to be given a chance to claim the No 1 jersey when football re-starts. I'd like to see this happen. He's a hard working, level headed lad, with a great attitude. Age is no barrier - if you're good enough, you're old enough.

Is he good enough? I don't know, but if he gets a run of games, with a decent defence in front of him, we'll find out. One thing I do know is that getting the odd game here and there, is not enough to build up a good understanding with your team mates, nor is it enough to pass judgement on his ability at this level.

The option of going on loan to a League 1 or 2 club is also a good one, as it would allow him to build up confidence and experience. Sitting on the bench for another season, with the odd appearance, should be avoided at all costs.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Fri 17 Jul 17:03)
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 16:04

The one thing that Cammy has struggled with is setting up a defensive wall and his positioning. That, I would have thought is something his GK coach should have worked on.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 16:08

Crawford said a month ago in one of his first interviews back he wanted a new keeper, we need one regardless if Gill gets another go.

a problem with a loan is i reckon there are only 3 teams out of 20 in L1/2 that will be looking for a no1, it wouldnt be a guarantee they would want him either.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 16:26

If Gill wasn't a youth player would anyone, and I mean anyone, be clamoring for him to play based on his career so far?

Not one, in the games where we won, he'd still make mistakes, that Ayr United game where he made a good save at the end? Wasn't punished for handling errors through the game. He just isn't good enough, the wanting for him to play comes from fans wanting a youth product to do well, rather than Gill actually being good enough. I'm sorry to say but with how bad Scully was last season then Gill should've absolutely cemented that position, as it was he was just as dodgy.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 17:10

Quote:

Grant, Fri 17 Jul 16:26

If Gill wasn't a youth player would anyone, and I mean anyone, be clamoring for him to play based on his career so far?

Not one, in the games where we won, he'd still make mistakes, that Ayr United game where he made a good save at the end? Wasn't punished for handling errors through the game. He just isn't good enough, the wanting for him to play comes from fans wanting a youth product to do well, rather than Gill actually being good enough. I'm sorry to say but with how bad Scully was last season then Gill should've absolutely cemented that position, as it was he was just as dodgy.


You're a hard, hard man, Grant. Is there a footballer at our level who doesn't make mistakes? I'm not "clamouring" for him to get a game, but I would like to see him get a wee run, maybe up until Christmas, to see if he can make the jersey his own. Failing that, he has to go and play somewhere else.

He can't just warm the bench for another year, don't you agree?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 17:25

I remember when Andy Goram was goalkeeping coach he spoke very highly of Gill as a prospect but his career seems to have stalled since then.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 17:32

Quote:

GG Riva, Fri 17 Jul 17:10

Quote:

Grant, Fri 17 Jul 16:26

If Gill wasn't a youth player would anyone, and I mean anyone, be clamoring for him to play based on his career so far?

Not one, in the games where we won, he'd still make mistakes, that Ayr United game where he made a good save at the end? Wasn't punished for handling errors through the game. He just isn't good enough, the wanting for him to play comes from fans wanting a youth product to do well, rather than Gill actually being good enough. I'm sorry to say but with how bad Scully was last season then Gill should've absolutely cemented that position, as it was he was just as dodgy.


You're a hard, hard man, Grant. Is there a footballer at our level who doesn't make mistakes? I'm not "clamouring" for him to get a game, but I would like to see him get a wee run, maybe up until Christmas, to see if he can make the jersey his own. Failing that, he has to go and play somewhere else.

He can't just warm the bench for another year, don't you agree?



Some footballers make less mistakes than others.

I want the best keeper we can possibly get at Dunfermline, and if that's Gill we're struggling.

As harsh as this may sound, I support Dunfermline and not Cammy Gill, I'm far more interested in what it is good for Dunfermline, not Gill.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 17:52

It seems that Cammy hasn't really been given an appropriate amount of time to develop and/or establish himself enough that people still aren't sure if he's actually going to be of a high standard or not.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 18:03

Quote:

Grant, Fri 17 Jul 17:32

Quote:

GG Riva, Fri 17 Jul 17:10

Quote:

Grant, Fri 17 Jul 16:26

If Gill wasn't a youth player would anyone, and I mean anyone, be clamoring for him to play based on his career so far?

Not one, in the games where we won, he'd still make mistakes, that Ayr United game where he made a good save at the end? Wasn't punished for handling errors through the game. He just isn't good enough, the wanting for him to play comes from fans wanting a youth product to do well, rather than Gill actually being good enough. I'm sorry to say but with how bad Scully was last season then Gill should've absolutely cemented that position, as it was he was just as dodgy.


You're a hard, hard man, Grant. Is there a footballer at our level who doesn't make mistakes? I'm not "clamouring" for him to get a game, but I would like to see him get a wee run, maybe up until Christmas, to see if he can make the jersey his own. Failing that, he has to go and play somewhere else.

He can't just warm the bench for another year, don't you agree?



Some footballers make less mistakes than others.

I want the best keeper we can possibly get at Dunfermline, and if that's Gill we're struggling.

As harsh as this may sound, I support Dunfermline and not Cammy Gill, I'm far more interested in what it is good for Dunfermline, not Gill.


That's a fair enough comment, Grant.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 18:34

If Gill is not ready to step up now - when will he ever be ?

He's 22 and been with the club since 2016.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 18:42

Quote:

veteraneastender, Fri 17 Jul 18:34

If Gill is not ready to step up now - when will he ever be ?

He's 22 and been with the club since 2016.


He might not be, however goalkeepers do peak later. But then our past highly rated youth keepers by and large haven't done well after dropping down the leagues...

Ironically the best youth keeper we produced was Murdoch, who then spent a significant proportion of his career as a number two.

As a number two Gill does for us, he'll be on comparitively cheap wages, can step in when required and if we needed a permanent solution you can always get a keeper in on loan.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 18:57

I'm going back a good few years now but Eric Martin signed for the Pars as understudy to Jim Herriot, aged 18. He took over just over a year later when Herriot was sold to Birmingham and he himself left for Southampton aged just 21 to be replaced by his Danish namesake, Bent who won a SC medal in 1968.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: 13en  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 19:30

I like cammy Gill a lot and has good potential to become a real asset to this club, a lot of the stick he’s receiving on here is very uncalled for considering he’s barely played. Top top players make mistakes as does everyone in life, give the lad a bit of slack he’s a young goalkeeper and gives his all every time he plays
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 19:31

He let himself down a couple of times last season by flapping at a high cross ball which resulted in a goal against. That part of his game seems suspect. Williams appeared to be a more solid keeper. It would be a pity if Gill moved elsewhere and suddenly became a great all round keeper but his early career suggests some major deficiencies in his game. Football is very unforgiving and a goalie that doesn't inspire confidence won't get much game time.

GG Riva was probably his school teacher or some kind of mentor or family friend. Maybe that's why he's pushing his case.



Post Edited (Fri 17 Jul 20:25)
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: 60yearapar  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 21:20

Remember when de Gea first signed for Man U, the criticism he received for some basic mistakes, rated one of the best next couple of seasons
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 21:34

I've said I don't think he is ready.
I won't expand on that.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 22:31

Quote:

Paralex, Fri 17 Jul 19:31

He let himself down a couple of times last season by flapping at a high cross ball which resulted in a goal against. That part of his game seems suspect. Williams appeared to be a more solid keeper. It would be a pity if Gill moved elsewhere and suddenly became a great all round keeper but his early career suggests some major deficiencies in his game. Football is very unforgiving and a goalie that doesn't inspire confidence won't get much game time.

GG Riva was probably his school teacher or some kind of mentor or family friend. Maybe that's why he's pushing his case.


GGRiva seems a fair man, I doubt he would push his case even if that were the situation. Gill looks a good keeper, needs to get some games under his belt at a lower level, get some experience and then come back next year to stake his claim, much like Craig Gordon did at Cowdenbeath. No point sitting on our bench for another year
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 22:56

I'm just being slightly light hearted red star. GG Riva does seem to have some rapport with the young local lads and some of them were pupils of his. So I just wondered if his judgement might be a little skewed by his personal friendships. But there is no harm in that, we all have our particular favourites.



Post Edited (Fri 17 Jul 22:56)
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 23:00

I think Gill's from Edinburgh and GGR taught in Dunfermline but he gets to know some of the players quite well through the promotional work he does with them on the Schools programme. I'm sure he'll clarify it in the morning.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 23:07

Sean Murdoch wasn't ready when he was 22. Came back when he was 29 and was great. Would still be our keeper today if he stayed fit and didn't decide to move on.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 23:26

I quite like GG's insights on players, as you said he obviously gets to know them through the schools engagement program and he's got some good feelgood stories and questions the kids ask etc. He'll know the players on a personal level better than most on here.

Can't be understated how important it is to get the next generation of fans believing that EEP is the place they want to be. GG and his team are a big part of that.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: USMac  
Date:   Fri 17 Jul 23:31

Craw will bring in another keeper, and if Cammy wins the starting job, so be it. I'm fine with it either way.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 18 Jul 05:55

''I think Gill's from Edinburgh and GGR taught in Dunfermline but he gets to know some of the players quite well through the promotional work he does with them on the Schools programme. I'm sure he'll clarify it in the morning.''

Well it's morning and true to form......🙂

I taught in Dunfermline and Glenrothes and Gill is an Embrae boy. The only recent Pars I've taught are John Potter and Paul Allan.

''I quite like GG's insights on players, as you said he obviously gets to know them through the schools engagement program and he's got some good feel good stories and questions the kids ask etc. He'll know the players on a personal level better than most on here.''

Cheers, Grant. The schools programme (note spelling) keeps me away from the keyboard once a week. 🙂 The feedback we get from the kids and their teachers is always very positive and I know the players enjoy it, too, although they're sometimes a bit nervous on their first visit, especially the younger ones.

I remember Cammy's first school visit. We usually get first team players, but on this occasion it Gill and Ryan Williamson. I hadn't met either of them. ''You look like you've not long left school, lads'', I said. ''We're still at school'' Ryan replied. I believe they had some kind of arrangement whereby they attended their schools for part of the week and trained with the Pars on the remaining days as work experience. It was quite common during some pupils' final months at school, especially for Christmas leavers.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: arpar  
Date:   Sat 18 Jul 10:47

Goalkeeper is such a difficult position to breakthrough in. You can only play one position and very rarely get used as a sub or squad rotation and only likely to get a chance due to injury or a series of poor performances from the first choice gk. Then you have the pressure of performing with every mistake likely to be costly to your team. Not an easy situation to perfect your craft.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sat 18 Jul 14:06

Good quality thread this. A balanced mix of opinions, insights and history. Riva's playing a blinder. A good team effort all round!

FWIW I agree with USMac (Fri 17 Jul 23:31):

<<< Craw will [likely] bring in another keeper, and if Cammy wins the starting job, so be it. I'm fine with it either way. >>>



Post Edited (Sat 18 Jul 14:13)
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Number Eleven  
Date:   Sat 18 Jul 17:36

I think that another goalie is a must. 2 goalies in the squad aren't enough, especially when they are both inexperienced and 1 may not be ready for the first team. I like to see the clubs develop their own young players but I think we need to bring in a more experienced keeper and let him and Gill compete for the starting place.


DA are the number one
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie  
Date:   Sat 18 Jul 17:47

I think we keep hanging onto this 'promising youngster' type tag as if he is a 16/17 year old on the edges of the first team.

If he is/was good enough to be a bonafide 1st choice starter then i think it would have happened by now.

---------------------------------------------------------------


"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sat 18 Jul 18:07

Quote:

TAFKA_Super_Petrie, Sat 18 Jul 17:47

I think we keep hanging onto this 'promising youngster' type tag as if he is a 16/17 year old on the edges of the first team.

If he is/was good enough to be a bonafide 1st choice starter then i think it would have happened by now.


Correct
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Sat 18 Jul 18:37

BigJPar wrote:

>
Quote:

TAFKA_Super_Petrie, Sat 18 Jul 17:47
>
> I think we keep hanging onto this 'promising youngster' type
> tag as if he is a 16/17 year old on the edges of the first
> team.
>
> If he is/was good enough to be a bonafide 1st choice starter
> then i think it would have happened by now.

>
> Correct

Can't apply the same rule to goalkeepers particularly one thats started only 11 Championship games.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 18 Jul 18:59

Quote:

BigJPar, Sat 18 Jul 18:07

Quote:

TAFKA_Super_Petrie, Sat 18 Jul 17:47

I think we keep hanging onto this 'promising youngster' type tag as if he is a 16/17 year old on the edges of the first team.

If he is/was good enough to be a bonafide 1st choice starter then i think it would have happened by now.


Correct


Nonsense, goalkeepers usually take longer to establish themselves
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 09:45

''GG Riva was probably his school teacher or some kind of mentor or family friend. Maybe that's why he's pushing his case.''

I know you were just pulling my leg, Paralex, but I wonder whether you subconsciously got notion that from living in the West for so long?

As a young teacher, I once went through to a trial for Scottish schools with one of our lads. There were lots of teachers in attendance, but those with Glaswegian accents seemed to be far more vocal and stood close to those I later discovered were selectors. Armed with this knowledge, their comments were very telling:-

''Great tackle, No. 2. What school is he from? ''

"Who's that No. 7? He's faster than a greyhound."

"What a pass from that No. 10. He's already some player.''

You, catch my drift? No wonder it was even harder for kids from the East to get into the Scotland team than their senior counterparts.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: rossmcno1  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 10:38

I’m torn a bit between my rose tinted specs view of Cammy and his progress and the reality of him not quite making the breakthrough. That said I still think he was the best of the three keepers last season on the performances I saw. Scully just didn’t cut it at all and OFW I think was at direct fault for two goals that I can remember. OFW Never quite convinced me.

Cammy’s best game (and correct me of wrong here as I has been known 🤣) was against Ayr away, and then he was dropped the following week? He just doesn’t seem to have had that run in the position that a keeper his age needs. He needs game time. This season has to see him kick on, and if we do sign another goalie, he needs to prove he is a better keeper. If not, he has to move on.



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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 12:05

He wasn't actually dropped after that Ayr game which was played in midweek. He played the following Saturday at home to Morton but by then Scully had recovered from the injury he sustained in the Scottish Cup game at Stranraer two weeks before. Scully was chosen for the next game at Dundee. It's not unusual for an established player to regain his place after a short-term injury so it could be argued Gill wasn't 'dropped' at all. He was dropped earlier in the season after a poor performance at Tannadice which ended a seven-match run in the side.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: rossmcno1  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 12:46

That’s right eck. Shut out v Ayr and then Morton game. Dropped (I’ll stick with that word tho to be fair) for dundee away where we conceded 4. Followed by Inverness conceding 2 and Alloa conceding 3.

Just maybe he hasn’t had the full chance yet I would argue.



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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 13:47

You can't automatically attribute the number of goals conceded in a game to the performance of the keeper. He had a good chance to consolidate his position with that run of games early in the season but blew it with his performance at Tannadice which was woeful.

What we don't know is how he was performing in training. After Scully was outjumped by the smallest man on the park at Cappielow in January SC gave Gill the next game, which we won 2-0 at home to Dundee, but then signed OFW before the transfer window closed. With Scully's confidence gone he obviously felt we needed an experienced keeper for the run-in. It's a tough one to call.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 15:06

Well GG Riva, perhaps I don't have a broad Fife accent now because I had to moderate it a little when I came here as a young laddie because many classmates presumably recognising I was different wanted to fight me. Not that I didn't relish a physical challenge of that kind but after a while I thought better of it and tried to speak Glaswegian. But alas probably not sufficiently well enough to be selected to play for Glasgow schools, although I was in the last 22 and the only scorer in the final trial game. A big lazy looking centre forward in the other team got the nod but I suspected nepotism rather than East/West bias.

But certainly in the past I have detected a greater degree of confidence regarding football ability among Glaswegians than in other parts of Scotland but I am suspicious that comes from ignorance rather than actual ability. There may be an inferiority complex among players from the nether regions of Scotland because the big teams are in Glasgow. Those teams that have bucked the trend over the years have generally had managers fron the west including Jock Stein, Alex Ferguson and Jim McLean who presumably instilled into their players the fact that they were in no way inferior to their counterparts in Glasgow.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 15:56

How has this gone from Cammy getting a game to West of Scotland's religious hatred?

My view is Cammy should be loaned out to a team where he'll get game time. I thought he did really well when picked last season. Few mistakes but I've seen worse from far more experienced keepers. He needs to get game time and he could be a great prospect.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 16:03

Quote:

jake89, Sun 19 Jul 15:56

How has this gone from Cammy getting a game to West of Scotland's religious hatred?

My view is Cammy should be loaned out to a team where he'll get game time. I thought he did really well when picked last season. Few mistakes but I've seen worse from far more experienced keepers. He needs to get game time and he could be a great prospect.


Not sure where you picked up the religious hatred bit, Jake. I was just picking up on an earlier Paralex post, where he was pulling my leg by countering that West Coast teachers liked to talk up their pupils at Scotland schoolboy trial games, although I'm sure there would be plenty of Fife teachers eminently capable of doing the same.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 16:42

Nothing religious aluded to. Perhaps a bit of West of Scotland bìas and suggested nepotism but absolutely no sectarianism.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 19:17

Watching the English Semi Final. Utd have to be looking at Cammy he is significantly better than the Bozo that they've got. De Gea your time must be up.

matt forsyth

Post Edited (Sun 19 Jul 19:18)
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 19:22

Beat me to it John emphasises the point that ALL keepers make mistakes
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Ben,D.A  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 19:36

De Gea has been to blame for the last 3 goals united lost. Cammy still has a future with us and I'm sure he has and will continue to learn and improve from not only other keepers we loan, but also the players in front of him. As they say, 'The last line of defence is the first line of attack'.

only 11 make the team,the rest can just but dream.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: RossDAFC  
Date:   Sun 19 Jul 22:51

Tough spot where I think his ability is good enough to be a starting league one goalkeeper, needs a full season of football, but loaning him means needing to get two GKs in which isn't really feasible. I'd be tempted to gamble on loaning him until January and getting in OFW and see how it goes given it's only two months from the start of the season. Saying he has no future at the club is nonsense FWIW.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Mon 20 Jul 00:25

I felt he was a bit unfortunate to get dropped when he and Scully were both in contention at the same time.

Needs game time, a loan would do this but as above the dilemma is we end up short ourselves.

GK is such a crucial position, we can't wing it.

The idea he has no future I don't agree at all.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 20 Jul 06:53

Reading through this thread, I can see that the contributors split into two broad groups:-

1. Those who agree with me and think 11 non consecutive starts is not enough to pass judgement on.

2. Those who believe they've seen enough and have decided he's not good enough to help the club towards promotion.

I have to say I think those in group 2 would almost certainly make better managers.🙂

Going off topic, I think I can clear up Jake89's misunderstanding further up, when I posted, ''Great tackle, No. 2. What school is he from? ''

I was meaning that the lad in question was from the teacher's own school, but the teacher talking him up was pretending he didn't know him, so that his comment would carry more weight. Jake may have thought the teacher was looking for a religious reason to select/not select him for the Scotland squad.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Wed 22 Jul 13:37

It seems inevitable that the manager will bring in a new No.1 however there's every chance he will need another GK on top of that.
Cammy is at the stage where he can't sit another season on the bench so he's likely to either go out on loan or look to get a permanent move elsewhere.
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: Pars11  
Date:   Wed 22 Jul 13:56

New rules on loan players should be used to give Cammy Gill experience at other clubs, he needs to be given a run in a team to build confidence. We need a confident experienced Goalkeeper and also a back up. Paul Gallacher is a registered Hearts player as well as Goalkeeping coach, lesson may be to bring in experience as first choice and also another as a coach who can play the odd game to cover injury to the first choice. All our signings are good and right to try and turn our fortunes.

Bluebell Polka
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 22 Jul 17:35

Is Westwood still our GK coach. He must be the only Dunfermline Athletic goalkeeper to have 100% record. Anyone else at the game he played, we won 1 - 0 away at Cowdenbeath. A John Watson head from a Ziggy Bowie cross. I think everyone was packed into the old wooden stand. I don't know if he could still play for us if required.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: rossmcno1  
Date:   Wed 22 Jul 18:07

eastendalloapar wrote:

> Is Westwood still our GK coach. He must be the only Dunfermline
> Athletic goalkeeper to have 100% record. Anyone else at the
> game he played, we won 1 - 0 away at Cowdenbeath. A John Watson
> head from a Ziggy Bowie cross. I think everyone was packed into
> the old wooden stand. I don't know if he could still play for
> us if required.
>
>



The 61 year old Dave Westwood? No sure. Maybe we should look at younger backup from maybe John Burridge? 😉



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 Re: Cammy Gill
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Wed 22 Jul 18:56

the talk about having no future etc, going into the final year of his contract there must be doubts from both player and club going beyond that when you look at all aspects of it.
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