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 Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 07:26

This is the title of a book published in 2006. It is essentially a catalogue of the 480 players who have represented Scotland at full international level in the 60 years from 1946. A good number of the players featured also played for the Pars at some stage of their careers. (I think only one was capped while playing for the Pars.)

I wonder if you can name them all in a collective effort? To make it easier for me to check your answers, please include the year they received their first cap as the book lists them chronologically.



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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 07:44

If it goes up to 2006 then there are two players who were capped while at the Pars - Stevie Crawford (first cap around 1995, maybe in the Kirrin Cup) and Barry Nicholson (first cap around 2000 I think as a right back against Poland in a friendly, then he got one more v Belgium (?) under Craig Brown). Crawford's first obviously wasn't when he was at Dunfermline but he got about 10 caps while with us.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 08:20

Quote:

kelty_par, Tue 28 Jul 07:44

If it goes up to 2006 then there are two players who were capped while at the Pars - Stevie Crawford (first cap around 1995, maybe in the Kirrin Cup) and Barry Nicholson (first cap around 2000 I think as a right back against Poland in a friendly, then he got one more v Belgium (?) under Craig Brown). Crawford's first obviously wasn't when he was at Dunfermline but he got about 10 caps while with us.


Yes, I meant only one Pars player was capped between 1946 and 2006, KP. I had forgotten about Nicholson and unbelievably, I had it in my head that Crawford's caps were out with the window covered by the book. Too early in the morning? šŸ™‚



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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 08:31

There were 2 previously. Eddie Connachan Czechoslovakia 61 & Hungary 62, also Willie Callaghan Ireland 69 & Wales 70 whilst still at the Pars

Post Edited (Tue 28 Jul 08:36)
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 10:04

Would need to sit in a quiet room and think this one through.

Jackie McNamara and Doug Rougvie from the more recent era for starters.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 10:24

Did Doug Rougvie get any caps? I was under the impression he was one of the Don's players who inexplicably didn't.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 10:42

Rougvie got one

Allan Evans, Jimmy Millar, Jim Herriot, Jackie Sinclair, Willie Cunningham all come to mind
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 10:44

''There were 2 previously. Eddie Connachan Czechoslovakia 61 & Hungary 62, also Willie Callaghan Ireland 69 & Wales 70 whilst still at the Pars.''

Ooerr..... I'm not having a very good morning. šŸ˜Ÿ

I started watching the Pars just after Connachan left for Middlesbrough and I was under the impression he'd won his 2 caps while playing for them. Willie Callaghan was the only Pars player from the 60s I remember getting a Scotland cap which is a disgrace when you consider some of the talented players we had during that decade.

Rougvie received his only Scotland cap while an Aberdeen player in 1983, neils.



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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 11:37

Hugh Robertson won one Scotland cap. Ernie McGarr was also capped.

A few internationalists played for the Pars when they were past their best including Derek Ferguson, Simon Donnelly, Ian Ferguson, Joe McBride and Jimmy Wardhaugh.

We seem to have a good record with capped goalkeepers as Paul Gallacher and Nicky Walker both played for Scotland.

I seem to recall George 'Dandy' McLean won a cap as did Stephen Glass and Mark Burchill won a few when at Celtic. Before my time I believe we had a striker called Jimmy Watson who played for Scotland.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 11:53

"Willie Cunningham all come to mind"

WC was capped by Northern Ireland.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: Parahandy  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 11:56

You are referencing the wrong Willie Cunningham - Willie Cunningham from Hill of Beath captained Scotland in the 1954 World Cup
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 12:31

Quote:

wee eck, Tue 28 Jul 11:37

Hugh Robertson won one Scotland cap. Ernie McGarr was also capped.

A few internationalists played for the Pars when they were past their best including Derek Ferguson, Simon Donnelly, Ian Ferguson, Joe McBride and Jimmy Wardhaugh.

We seem to have a good record with capped goalkeepers as Paul Gallacher and Nicky Walker both played for Scotland.

I seem to recall George 'Dandy' McLean won a cap as did Stephen Glass and Mark Burchill won a few when at Celtic. Before my time I believe we had a striker called Jimmy Watson who played for Scotland.


As did Allan McGregor.
I think from my time supporting Dunfermline from 1999 we've had
McGregor, Glass, Gallacher, Crawford, Nicholson, Ferguson, Donnelly, Burchill, Whittaker and McNamara

Do we count AJ?
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 12:38

"You are referencing the wrong Willie Cunningham"

I'd never heard of the earlier version !!!

Three appearances for the Pars might be a reason !!!

Thanks, everyday is a learning experience.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 12:59

Quote:

Parahandy, Tue 28 Jul 11:56

You are referencing the wrong Willie Cunningham - Willie Cunningham from Hill of Beath captained Scotland in the 1954 World Cup


Indeed. There was a Scottish one, an Irish one, but sadly no English Willie Cunningham who played for the Pars, or there would probably have been a good joke in there.

Mention of the 1954 WC reminds me that Scotland went to Switzerland with 13 players - 2 of whom were goalkeepers. I believe they were outnumbered by SFA blazers. One of the games provided a salutary lesson for the Scots. Pitted against Uruguay, the WC holders, they were 7-0 down with almost half an hour to play. Wave after wave of South American attacks, pinned the Scots in their own half, defending desperately to prevent an even greater humiliation. It was a hot, sunny day, but mercifully, there was no further scoring.

After the game, a wry Tommy Docherty commented, "Even our tongues got a sun tan today."



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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 13:46

The story also goes that the SFA, seeing the tournament was being held in Switzerland that was more famous for winter sports and alpine hiking assumed that the weather would be cold so the players were wearing heavy woolen shirts while the other national teams came prepared with lightweight cotton jerseys.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: DRreturns  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 16:21

Crawford got at 25 of caps whilst at the pars.

Iā€™m here to take over!!
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 16:31

''The story also goes that the SFA, seeing the tournament was being held in Switzerland that was more famous for winter sports and alpine hiking assumed that the weather would be cold so the players were wearing heavy woolen shirts while the other national teams came prepared with lightweight cotton jerseys.''

I'm sure Tommy Docherty confirmed that in his after dinner speeches, KP. He said they were physically shattered after the Uruguay game - partly due to the heat and their heavy, sweat laden shirts and partly because the vastly superior Uruguayans giving them the runaround for the full 90 mins.

The Doc said that none of the Scottish players could understand why their opponents didn't take their feet off the gas even when they were 7-0 up, playing as if they were still looking for a winner, right up to the final whistle. The air was apparently blue with exasperated comments from the beleaguered Scottish defenders. šŸ™‚



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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 17:49

Topic Originator: DRreturns like | nolike
Date: Tue 28 Jul 16:21

Crawford got at 25 of caps whilst at the pars.

Iā€™m here to take over!!


He got 25 caps in total but was a Raith Rovers player when he made his debut, he got 4 whilst at Plymouth and 1 at Dundee Utd by my reckoning.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 23:04

Crawford, like Melrose, was a lively winger to start with. They developed their game to good effect as central strikers but both were a little short of international ability.

The same with Brewster who was always a joy to watch. Like Bert Paton he could drop off and link up attacks and finish with clinical efficiency. Both great Pars players.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: pars4life1  
Date:   Tue 28 Jul 23:23

Most recently Shankland.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 30 Jul 06:32

Impressive stuff. I think we'd do very well if we were involved in a football quiz v fans of other Scottish teams, although it might depend on the questions, of course. šŸ™‚

Here's the (almost) complete list from 1946-2006, according to the book. We're missing No 3 chronologically, but one of our senators is sure to come up trumps.

1. Jimmy Watson
2. Willie Cunningham
3. ?
4. Eddie Connachan*
5. Hugh Robertson
6. Jimmy Millar
7. Jackie Sinclair
8. Joe McBride
9. George McLean
10. Jim Herriot
11. Willie Callaghan*
12. Ernie McGarr
13. Allan Evans
14. Doug Rougvie
15. Derek Ferguson
16. Ian Ferguson
17. Nicky Walker
18. Stevie Crawford*
19. Jackie McNamara
20. Simon Donnelly
21. Stephen Glass
22. Mark Burchill
23. Barry Nicholson*
24. Allan McGregor

*capped while playing for DAFC.



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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 30 Jul 10:34

I think the missing No 3 is ex-Hearts player Jimmy Wardhaugh who had a short spell with us at the end of his career. I actually mentioned him in my post yesterday.

I see Paul Gallacher isn't on the list. Is that because he was on loan with us? Lawrence Shankland falls into the same category as does Allan McGregor but he is on the list. I demand a recount!
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Thu 30 Jul 11:31

Gallacher and Shankland were after 2006. Mind and leave wee eck out the quiz team until he reads the question :)



Post Edited (Thu 30 Jul 11:34)
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 30 Jul 11:58

Gallacher was capped between 2002 and 2004 but didn't join the Pars until 2007 so maybe that's why he was excluded. McGregor was on loan for the 2005/6 season but wasn't capped until 2007 so it's not clear why he has been included as the book was published in 2006.

I demand a statement from the Quizmaster!
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 30 Jul 12:58

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 30 Jul 11:58

Gallacher was capped between 2002 and 2004 but didn't join the Pars until 2007 so maybe that's why he was excluded. McGregor was on loan for the 2005/6 season but wasn't capped until 2007 so it's not clear why he has been included as the book was published in 2006.

I demand a statement from the Quizmaster!


The Quizmaster is actually Boris Johnson in disguise, wee eck. ā˜¹

Jimmy Waurdhaugh was the missing player at No. 3. Only a really old fossil was ever going to get that right.

Paul Gallacher should have been included, but Alan McGregor shouldn't have because his cap falls out with the 60 year window covered by the book. This Auldtimer's is getting serious.... ā˜¹

I set this quiz to some pals of mine in our back garden yesterday and they came up with McGregor. One of them is now away with the book, but happy to take your word for it, eck. They came up with two other goalies, (Hamish McAlpine and Stewart Kennedy) but I disallowed these after consulting VAR. Both were hairline offside.

Anybody know why? And don't tell me goalies can't be offside...šŸ™‚



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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 30 Jul 13:07

I don't think Stewart Kennedy actually played a game for the Pars although he was on our books and Hamish McAlpine never won a full cap.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 30 Jul 13:11

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 30 Jul 13:07

I don't think Stewart Kennedy actually played a game for the Pars although he was on our books and Hamish McAlpine never won a full cap.


Correct on both counts, eck. I think you should take over as Quizmaster. Boris will be mightily relieved. He's got far more than he can handle on his plate. šŸ™‚



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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 30 Jul 13:28

It's been an interesting thread, GGR, and some surprising names came out of it. I've got to admit to having a copy of that book which made things a lot easier!

It might be interesting to compile a list of non-Scottish internationalists who have played for the Pars since, say, 1945. The problem would be finding an authoritative source to verify such a list.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Thu 30 Jul 13:31

Was reminded when looking at that list that Alex Ferguson was not capped either.

Given that he was joint league top scorer with Joe McBride when with the Pars, then was sold to Rangers for a Scottish record fee, was playing and scoring in league and in Europe
(often not playing for one of the OF seemed to be the 'reason' for non-selection)
seems a bit strange that he never got the call...

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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 30 Jul 13:49

Fergie played for Scottish League v English League at Hampden - had a very average game.

TBH I doubt he was full international level.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 30 Jul 14:11

Fergie played for a Scotland XI on a tour of the Far East in 1967 I think but the matches weren't recognised as full internationals.
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 Re: Scotland! Scotland!
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 30 Jul 15:00

Quote:

Luxembourg Par, Thu 30 Jul 13:31

Was reminded when looking at that list that Alex Ferguson was not capped either.

Given that he was joint league top scorer with Joe McBride when with the Pars, then was sold to Rangers for a Scottish record fee, was playing and scoring in league and in Europe
(often not playing for one of the OF seemed to be the 'reason' for non-selection)
seems a bit strange that he never got the call...


As VEE says, Fergie was no great shakes as a footballer, but give him his due, he had an eye for goal and he wasn't scared to have a go when any chance presented itself. He probably played in the Pars finest ever team, which failed to win the league by a single point and lost the SC Final to Celtic (without Fergie) after twice being ahead and in spite of starting the game as hot favourites with the bookies. That team really should and could have completed the double. The comparison with Joe McBride isn't a good one. McBride was out with a knee injury for about half the season and still equalled Fergie's tally. That Celtic team went on to win every trophy they played for including the European Champions Cup, without McBride. Both teams had so many fine players that created loads of chances for their strikers.

Fergie used to run like a jogger, with his arms held high and his elbows sticking out, but he had a good game against Rangers, so they did what they always did in such cases and signed him. A decent enough striker but not good enough to get in ahead of the likes of Denis Law and Alan Gilzean. He might have managed to get into the current Scotland team given he always carried a goal threat.



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