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 The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 6 Sep 15:43

Interesting past history!

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/when-celtic-and-dunfermline-were-thrall-boys-brazil-2962765?__twitter_impression=true
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 6 Sep 16:06

Good article, LA.

Don't remember anything about the samba stars signed by Sellick, but I remember being very excited at the prospect of watching Cico Filho playing for the Pars. Unfortunately, I was not considered old enough to travel to away games, so I missed his only game at Cappielow. According to an older friend of mine who was there, he was the best player on the park, a view not shared by anyone connected with the Pars and senior dotnetters who were at the game.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sun 6 Sep 17:01

Here's something I wrote about this last December in a thread titled "Foreign players in Scotland"...

====

Some years ago, I spent a blissful day at the Central Library in Edinburgh with the desk in front of me piled with leather-bound volumes of The Scotsman newspaper covering the 1960s. I read all there was to read in that paper about the Pars during the Sixties.

There were a couple of snippets that I remember from that investigation.

One was that after the Slovan Bratislava game, Dunfermline had made enquiries about signing the Capkovic twins. One of them, who played on the left-wing, was absolutely outstanding that night we played them at EEP. Much as I loved Hughie Robertson playing on our left-wing, I would gladly have swapped him for that guy.

The other story was perhaps even more intriguing. My memory is dimmed, but I know that I read an article that day about the Pars trialling a couple of Brazilians, sometime in the 1963-65 period I think. The story basically said they had come to EEP and turned out to be rubbish. There was more than a hint that we had been the victim of a scam.

I wonder, does anyone have any more light to cast on this incident?

====
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 6 Sep 17:57

There has been a thread about Chico Filho in the past. He spent most of his playing career in France and was a coach after he retired, including a spell at Manchester United. Maybe Fergie remembered him from his time at the Pars. He also managed the Mauritius national team for a year.
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: gordi-b  
Date:   Sun 6 Sep 20:32

Chico was the better of the two Brazilians, im sure the other was called Alexander Gabriel , think he spent most of his time in Joe Maloco,s snooker hall

G.B
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 6 Sep 22:49

Did we not reckon that this was Chico Filho ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Filho_(footballer)

Therefore during his brief time at EEP would have crossed paths with Sir Fergie - long before their hooking up at Old Trafford ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45976285
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Sun 6 Sep 23:08

In Portuguese, "Chico" is the diminutive for "Francisco".

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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 7 Sep 09:14

Nice one Stanza.

His DAFC career was 45 minutes at Morton, opening game of 1965-66 season, if I've made the correct connection.



Post Edited (Mon 07 Sep 09:18)
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 7 Sep 13:02

Quote:

veteraneastender, Mon 7 Sep 09:14

Nice one Stanza.

His DAFC career was 45 minutes at Morton, opening game of 1965-66 season, if I've made the correct connection.


Was he injured, VEE? We're subs not introduced in Scotland until the following year. A famous Scottish international was the first sub, if I'm not mistaken.

And while I'm on the subject, who was the first Scottish manager to sub a sub?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: Ben,D.A  
Date:   Mon 7 Sep 13:40

Ah hope sammers no in the huff.
Surely he might have some more information?

only 11 make the team,the rest can just but dream.
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Mon 7 Sep 15:17

"And while I'm on the subject, who was the first Scottish manager to sub a sub?"

I'm sure there's an example from before this, but Graeme Souness was famously the Southampton manager during the infamous Ali Dia fiasco!
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 7 Sep 18:13

Hi Ben DA,
I can remember the excitement when the two Brazilians, Filho and Gabriella, came on trial at EEP. Weird and wonderful stories began to spread about what they were capable of doing in training: Gabriella could trot down the pitch juggling two balls at the same time! Filho could stand back to goal on the penalty spot, juggle the ball over his head and score with a back heel volley! Despite my keepie uppie record being around 14 at the time I tried, along with a few fellow Pars fans, to emulate these tricks and of course we all failed dismally. So we were desperate to see these wonder moves performed in a black and white jersey.

Sadly, it never happened. After Filho’s uninspiring debut at Cappielow he moved to France where he had a pretty decent career mostly in the second division. Things worked out well for the Pars as well. We’d scored 83 league goals the previous season with John Mclaughlin leading the line but when he left, Ian Hunter and Hugh Maxwell failed to convince, hence the interest in the Brazilians I suppose. With the Brazilians out of the equation, manager Willie Cunningham tried Jim Fleming, until then mostly a right winger, as a target man with Bert Paton and Alex Ferguson playing off him. It worked like a dream and we scored 96 league goals with that system. But no back heel volleys that I can remember.

On subs, I think the first sub in Scottish football was Archie Gemmill at St. Mirren, presumably sent on by Alex Wright.
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 7 Sep 19:27

GG - I must be confused with the only 45 minutes at Cappielow !!!

I didn't think he lasted the whole game.



Post Edited (Mon 07 Sep 22:00)
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 8 Sep 07:14

The first Scottish sub was indeed Archie Gemmill, Sammer and I'm fairly certain the first manager to substitute a substitute was none other than our own George Farm, though, for the life of me, I can't remember the players involved.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 8 Sep 11:09

The first sub to score in a Scottish competitive match was a Motherwell player at EEP.

Gus Moffat in a League Cup pool match ?
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 8 Sep 14:15

VEE,
I think you must be right about Gus Moffat being the first sub to score in Scottish football. He is officially named as such and in the first competitive game of the season in 1965-66 we beat Motherwell 2-1 at EEP in a League Cup tie so he presumably scored their goal. I can’t say I remember him at all.

The first sub in Scottish football was not made by Alex Wright since he arrived as manager of St. Mirren a few months after 18 year old substitute Archie Gemmill replaced Jim Clunie. Archie was a midfield dynamo around 5’6 while Fifer Jim was a sturdy centre half who was over 6 feet tall, so not exactly a straight swop.
At that time substitutions were only supposed to be made in respect of injured players but it is hard to believe this rule could have been enforced. However it was not unusual for the 12th man, as he was often called at the time, to remain unused since he was viewed as emergency back up in the event of injury. With hefty tackling and more cross balls to be cleared it made sense to keep the spare man on the bench until needed.
Jim Thomson was an example of a versatile sub, a man who could slot anywhere into the back four or defensive midfield in the event of injury, and he did that memorably when replacing the injured Jim Fraser at Parkhead in our 2-0 win in 1968. However for the Cup Final itself Jim remained on the bench throughout.

GG,
To sub a sub would have been a grand gesture typical of George Farm but he can’t have managed to do this while Pars manager. The two substitute rule was only introduced in season 1973-74 by which time he was back managing Raith Rovers. I think the awareness of tactical substitutions increased as a result of this change.
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 8 Sep 18:25

Quote:

sammer, Tue 8 Sep 14:15

GG,
To sub a sub would have been a grand gesture typical of George Farm but he can’t have managed to do this while Pars manager. The two substitute rule was only introduced in season 1973-74 by which time he was back managing Raith Rovers. I think the awareness of tactical substitutions increased as a result of this change.


That would explain why I can't remember the Pars players involved, Sammer. I'm fairly sure he was the first Scottish manager to sub a sub, but it may well have been at the San Starko, rather than EEP.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 8 Sep 19:55

"Jim Thomson was an example of a versatile sub, a man who could slot anywhere into the back four or defensive midfield in the event of injury, and he did that memorably when replacing the injured Jim Fraser at Parkhead in our 2-0 win in 1968. However for the Cup Final itself Jim remained on the bench throughout."

Sammer - I'll challenge you on the 1968 cup tie at Parkhead !!!

Was it not Ian Hunter who replaced Jim Fraser after Bertie Auld's wicked "challenge" in the second half ?

I clearly mind Ian taking the ball up the right wing and laying it on for Shug Robertson to score the opener at the second attempt.

Not like you at all.................................

Tragically Ian died very young in the late 1970s, aged 34, whilst player manager of Brora Rangers after collapsing, having complained of chest pains.
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 Re: The Brazilian connections
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 8 Sep 20:25

Vee it was Hunter

I was at Parkhead for that game with my Pal John Hanlon who's Family were die hard Tics but John escaped from the dark side

We were in amongst a volatile Celtic support who shoved their scarfs and chanted in our faces when we cheered after we went 1 - 0 up courtesy of Shug

Then when Pat scored the second we expected the worst ... but they had all gone home ...phew
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