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 Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Fri 15 Jan 21:06

With the way the club is going are they going to have their pro youth academy?

There is the Elite academy in Fife but Iv heard they bring a lot of boys in make them wait a year or 2 then they go to hearts/hibs etc?

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Fri 15 Jan 21:24

Is that your interpretation of the Chairmens comments at half-time ?
"Change in the infrastructure" was the quote I believe.

Always been murmurings of setting up our own academy given Fife seems to share its talent between all its clubs.

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Fri 15 Jan 21:28

Eh no..... I just think the pars should have their own pro youth etc.
The amount of young boys that go over to Edinburgh and Glasgow is unbelievable.

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Fri 15 Jan 21:57

Topic Originator: EEP like | nolike
Date: Fri 15 Jan 21:28

Eh no..... I just think the pars should have their own pro youth etc.
The amount of young boys that go over to Edinburgh and Glasgow is unbelievable.


No different to when we did have our own set up.We`ve been behind in that department for years. Not sure what kind of scouting network we have these days.

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Fri 15 Jan 22:16

Surely need to get our own facilities first. Why would anyone come here, over a team with their own training centre/facilities?

If I had a kid with a choice, I’d certainly encourage them to go to a team that had decent facilities. Would give them a much better platform to progress.

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Gun Mech par  
Date:   Fri 15 Jan 22:25

As a dad of a boy thats been in the Celtic academy for 6 years, Dunfermline really should have their own academy set up. I wouldn't read to much into having their own facilities, most other academies use schools for games and training. From personal experience Celtics Barrowfield is one of the worst in the elite teams.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Fri 15 Jan 22:25

There is a brand new pitch at Pitreavie just built so why not make the training down there now.... a brand new facility plus there are changing rooms on site.
I just think fife elite will go if pars set up their own academy?

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Fri 15 Jan 22:39

Honestly the amount of boys that get asked to Fife to train..... then go to other clubs to be signed is unbelievable!

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Gun Mech par  
Date:   Fri 15 Jan 22:49

Fife elite were the only club in the Central belt that never asked about my boy, no disrespect to the coaches but I would never even consider it as a pathway for my boy. I know Falkirk will be starting their academy again soon, and it pains me to say it, I'm sure they will have a good academy again. Motherwell have a good one as well, and Aberdeen are fantastic. If clubs like Ayr, Morton and Killie can have their own, why shouldn't we.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Fri 15 Jan 23:32

I can honestly say Fife Elite are a joke with their progression with young boys.
Their main coach said no to about 5 boys who went onto Hibs/hearts and are doing great.

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: DBA  
Date:   Fri 15 Jan 23:46

Quote:

EEP, Fri 15 Jan 23:32

I can honestly say Fife Elite are a joke with their progression with young boys.
Their main coach said no to about 5 boys who went onto Hibs/hearts and are doing great.


Have you got a personal agenda against Fife Elite? Just curious!
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Polt  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 03:00

I do miss us having youth academy and players feeding through from there. The cost was obviously a massive issue at the time we closed it.
Pars done really well with previous youth set up. I would like to think that some form of the progressive German investment will look at restarting.
Hibs have cracking facilities in east lothian.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 03:39

Quote:

Polt, Sat 16 Jan 03:00

I do miss us having youth academy and players feeding through from there. The cost was obviously a massive issue at the time we closed it.
Pars done really well with previous youth set up. I would like to think that some form of the progressive German investment will look at restarting.
Hibs have cracking facilities in east lothian.


How did we do well? It cost a fortune, and all we produced were players good enough for League 1 or 2, or lower. We haven't produced anyone capable of bringing in a decent fee since McNamara. Better doing what we are doing now
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Polt  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 07:19

We done as well as other clubs in the development league. Not many scottish clubs have made anything from selling youth players. Most of the top talents get taken down south or the 2 ugly sisters take them.
So i suppose mibbe your right too much money for too little if any return
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 08:46

Quote:

red-star-par, Sat 16 Jan 03:39

Quote:

Polt, Sat 16 Jan 03:00

I do miss us having youth academy and players feeding through from there. The cost was obviously a massive issue at the time we closed it.
Pars done really well with previous youth set up. I would like to think that some form of the progressive German investment will look at restarting.
Hibs have cracking facilities in east lothian.


How did we do well? It cost a fortune, and all we produced were players good enough for League 1 or 2, or lower. We haven't produced anyone capable of bringing in a decent fee since McNamara. Better doing what we are doing now


I don’t think we can claim to have “produced” Jackie McNamara. He didn’t come through any sort of youth academy here. He was 18 when he signed and went straight into the first team squad iirc.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Gun Mech par  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 08:57

All academies go through dry spells, but if the set up is correct you should be producing players capable of stepping up to the first team. Motherwell are a prime example of this just now. For me its more than that, watching boys playing for the small academies feeling an affinity with their club. Think my boy would love the idea of playing for a Dunfermline academy, but has no interest in a Fife one.
For boys having to travel through to Kirkcaldy or Glenrothes makes no sense when the journey to most central belt clubs are the same, with a higher standard of training and opportunities.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 09:24

Is suppose the issue is that it's hard to compete with the likes of Hibs, Hearts, Celtic and Rangers in terms of what facilities we can offer.

Wasn't this this point of the Fife Elite setup? Pool the resources of all the Fife teams. The issue there is that you've got 4 teams all with very different levels of investment.

The investors will have ideas. Pitreavie has just had work done but their may be some hesitation there due to who owns it.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Gun Mech par  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 10:54

Facilities have not really been an issue for me, like I said my boy was at Barrowfield until last year and its by far the worst of all academies, the pitch is the worst ever, but broken promises from Celtic on getting it upgraded. Fortunately now before the stoppage of youth football and all of last year they have been training at St Ninians High school. Dunfermline need to concentrate on the quality of coaching and having an attractive academy with a pathway. I know parent from all over the Central belt that travel to various academies as they belive they suit their boys. And I can guarantee you not one would consider Fife Elite.
I have seen marked improvement in Killie as I know Paul Di Giacomo who was the u13s coach(now with Celtic), St mirren with Stevie Thomsons son.
My son goes to Graeme High in Falkirk and theres no Fife elite players there but plenty of the smaller teams like St Johnstone and St Mirren, and with Fife Elite supposed to be the same set up as Forth Valley it shows to me it isn't working for us at all.
I personally know dads and players of the top u13s Elite teams that would love to have their boys at a Dunfermline academy with the right coaching but not with the current set up.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 12:23

You need to guve Celtic a break. No club has been affected by this pandemic as much as them.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 12:30

1. possibly yes in the future, same with the idea of a training ground.
2. if/when we do, kids will still go to other clubs, that wont change.

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 13:08

"From personal experience Celtics Barrowfield is one of the worst in the elite teams."

Don`t Celtic use their training complex at Lennoxtown for bringing on youth players ?

I believe they have plans to develop specifically dedicated facilities there, including residential accommodation, for this purpose.

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Gun Mech par  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 13:32

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sat 16 Jan 13:08

"From personal experience Celtics Barrowfield is one of the worst in the elite teams."

Don`t Celtic use their training complex at Lennoxtown for bringing on youth players ?

I believe they have plans to develop specifically dedicated facilities there, including residential accommodation, for this purpose.


Lennoxtown is for the senior academy only with the intermediate academy using it for games, Junior academy still use Barrowfield. Lennoxtown went through the phase 1 of the build during strachens reign and yes there was supposed to be accommodation but that's not happened, and less likely that they put plans in to transform Barrowfield, 2 years on they have moved dirt about and nothings changed.

St Ninians is where the intermediate train 4 nights a week before covid hit. This is the High school they use, we opted for the SFA school in Falkirk due to transport close to my work and staying outside the Celtic bubble, to give our boy more options.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Gun Mech par  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 13:36

Quote:

jake89, Sat 16 Jan 12:23

You need to guve Celtic a break. No club has been affected by this pandemic as much as them.


Having been involved with them for 6 years and all the promises about facilities prior to the covid situation the board are a bunch of charlatans, and their fans lap it up.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 14:13

It's a conspiracy. Celtic would have world leading facilities if it wasn't for people expecting them to pay for it. The government should gift Celtic new facilities after all they've been through. Pray for Celtic.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 14:59

Quote:

Gun Mech par, Sat 16 Jan 08:57
Think my boy would love the idea of playing for a Dunfermline academy, but has no interest in a Fife one.
.


This makes absolutely no sense.

I'd go as far to say as we should pull all money from youth development ala Brentford.
Within an hour of Dunfermline we have Hearts, Hibs, Rangers and Celtic, we then have established academies in Motherwell, St Mirren, Dundee and Dundee United.

Scotland is a really condensed country, 90% of the country lives within 90 minutes of Kinross, if you're a parent advising your kid on where to play you aren't advising them to play for Dunfermline, even if we had our own academy, hence why when we had our academy the likes of Scott Brown went to Hibs!

If we ran our own academy we wouldn't have enough money to get the facilities and the coaching to challenge the above sides, especially the Edinburgh sides and the Glasgow ones. And then if we are fortunate enough to get a player young, develop him, make him decent, he'd get poached by the Edinburgh or the Glasgow sides for absolutely no money long before we seen them in the first team!
Our best "youth" player we sold on was Jackie McNamara, who we got when he was a month shy of 17! Outwith that the only one I can think off is PJ Crossan? It's an absolutely pointless endeavour.

Withdraw all money from youth development, have a reserve/youth side where we pick up players released from Rangers, Celtic etc at the age of 16/17 and offer them a pathway to first team football.

If we continue to try and do what we've done for the past 40 years it's doubtful we're going to get different results. We need to change it up, we aren't going to compete with the bigger sides and there facilities.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 16:19

Pretty much nailed it Grant.

Pointless for us, many academies also institutionalise players with identical coaching (passing with no purpose, good luck with that)

Who cares if you played for example for Man City, if you are 21 and have never played adult football, just age specific (even 19) then statistically you`ve missed the boat.

Falkirk pulled the plug because it was a waste, despite being occasionally able to sell a player for big bucks to pay for it- the fact they wasted it on Hartley is a different matter...

Brentford are a great example, signing kids with a point to prove.

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 16:52

A lot of club scoop up all the young talent but very few make it. Our market should be aimed at the players who did not make it at the higher level clubs ie Nisbet, but could still have a good career and possibly a sell on fee if they develop at the Pars.

A youth set up would be a waste, look at the talent who decided to go to one of the bigger clubs over the years despite there being a youth set up at Dunfermline at the time.

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 17:10

Good post Grant

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 17:37

Let's he serious from the players we had through our youth system pj Crossan went to celtic now at Dumbarton in league 1 but basically our only success story. None of our current players from youth on our books are good enough. Proof of this is that we have bought players to play in front of them cammy Gill being the example has been about the 1st team for years but aksways buy keepers to play ahead of him. Youth system is a waste of time as teams mentioned above have better facilities and coaches. When i coached a local team hearts loved asking all teams in fife for friendlies at the oriam. Showed them the facilities always hammered them but used it to see the level of players you had to sign up if you were good enough. Coaches not involved spoke to parents about what they can offer their child. Youth system is great if you have the money to throw at facilities and a budget to get the good enough coaches to make it worthwhile which we don't it's a massive risk for little reward.

c'mon the pars
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Gun Mech par  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 17:48

Hello Grant a couple of points I would pick up on

Quote:

Grant, Sat 16 Jan 14:59

Quote:

Gun Mech par, Sat 16 Jan 08:57
Think my boy would love the idea of playing for a Dunfermline academy, but has no interest in a Fife one.
.


This makes absolutely no sense.

It means he has no affinity with a club academy called Fife elite, having played against them a few times, he said he wouldn't want to play for them, but if he played with a Dunfermline top on he would love it.

If we continue to try and do what we've done for the past 40 years it's doubtful we're going to get different results. We need to change it up, we aren't going to compete with the bigger sides and there facilities.


If you think Dunfermline have really had a proper academy in 40 years or set out real plans I must have missed it, it was all a running joke when I was younger, and I was part of it from 93 until 95. We have never committed to run a academy like the established clubs you say above. Or first foray into an academy is Fife elite team which all other areas stopped due to it not being worth the outlay.

This is the reason why most parents and children would not choose us as a viable academy.

Falkirk are setting up a new academy, it will be discussed at their next AGM.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 18:20

Quote:

Gun Mech par, Sat 16 Jan 17:48

Hello Grant a couple of points I would pick up on

Quote:

Grant, Sat 16 Jan 14:59

Quote:

Gun Mech par, Sat 16 Jan 08:57
Think my boy would love the idea of playing for a Dunfermline academy, but has no interest in a Fife one.
.


This makes absolutely no sense.

It means he has no affinity with a club academy called Fife elite, having played against them a few times, he said he wouldn't want to play for them, but if he played with a Dunfermline top on he would love it.

If we continue to try and do what we've done for the past 40 years it's doubtful we're going to get different results. We need to change it up, we aren't going to compete with the bigger sides and there facilities.


If you think Dunfermline have really had a proper academy in 40 years or set out real plans I must have missed it, it was all a running joke when I was younger, and I was part of it from 93 until 95. We have never committed to run a academy like the established clubs you say above. Or first foray into an academy is Fife elite team which all other areas stopped due to it not being worth the outlay.

This is the reason why most parents and children would not choose us as a viable academy.

Falkirk are setting up a new academy, it will be discussed at their next AGM.


So we chuck a Dunfermline top into the mix and all of a sudden every top young talent in the area, that currently doesn't join us due to that will be right with us? Aye pull the other one.

We haven't had a proper academy because we can't afford one, that's why the Fife clubs pulled whatever resources we have together. If we were to go it alone we'd have even less money to put into it with even less grants from the SFA. No amount of kids willing to play just because they could wear a Pars top would make up for it.


The whole thing is a massive waste of time and money for Dunfermline.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 18:21

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Sat 16 Jan 17:37

Let's he serious from the players we had through our youth system pj Crossan went to celtic now at Dumbarton in league 1 but basically our only success story. None of our current players from youth on our books are good enough. Proof of this is that we have bought players to play in front of them cammy Gill being the example has been about the 1st team for years but aksways buy keepers to play ahead of him. Youth system is a waste of time as teams mentioned above have better facilities and coaches. When i coached a local team hearts loved asking all teams in fife for friendlies at the oriam. Showed them the facilities always hammered them but used it to see the level of players you had to sign up if you were good enough. Coaches not involved spoke to parents about what they can offer their child. Youth system is great if you have the money to throw at facilities and a budget to get the good enough coaches to make it worthwhile which we don't it's a massive risk for little reward.


Lewis Martin.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 19:56

Martin, Williamson, Crossan, Phinn, Spence, Henderson, Smith and White come to mind. Most being championship quality or playing in the Prem but yeah, we have always struggled to produce good youngsters honestly
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 20:20

Martin - injury prone and doesn't stand out when he does play as a player who can make the step to next level.
Williamson - league 1
Crossan - league 1
Phinn signed from hearts boys at 16 but good player
Spence - signed after leaving rangers 16 Signed for Dundee after we released him.
Henderson- imagine your on about Blair henderson league 2 never found a good level after we released him
Smith - wasn't getting a game for us went to Hamilton scored once
White - 18 games no goals for Motherwell. Released from us after hardly any game time.
So not exactly producing loads of talent good enough to justify the money spent.

c'mon the pars
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Polt  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 20:33

Quote:

Andrew283, Sat 16 Jan 19:56

Martin, Williamson, Crossan, Phinn, Spence, Henderson, Smith and White come to mind. Most being championship quality or playing in the Prem but yeah, we have always struggled to produce good youngsters honestly


In fairness most of them only got a chance because we were in administration. See... I like the Spanish way of things. IF we could field a youth squad in the east of Scotland league to develop and play week in week out get the true understanding of professional football then it would work and players would develop better.
The cost though...is significant very few teams actually pay for a player in Scotland amd if they do it is a pittence. Unlike English league's there is no money in our game.

In order for it to work we would need to sell at least one player to English side Willing to part with good money and sell on clause.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 21:05

Or better, sign young promising players, and loan out to league 1/2 or Lowland league on 6 month/1 year deals, while training part time at both clubs.

No point in any youth team anywhere, they need to play with and against adults in a competitive environment in my opinion.

If you are 18 or 19 and still playing with kids, unlikely to happen in any meaningful way.

This pretty much seems to be what we are doing regards recent signings, and I think is good.

I really don`t see the value or point in academies after a certain age, even the big English clubs have moved away from this, realising churning out hundreds of kids who can do step overs and constantly get caught in possession aren`t really needed.

Your right Grant, Hibs and Hearts also have superb facilities to draw on, and here`s the thing- neither are producing in house anything near an acceptable standard of player....and have to scour the transfer market, instead of being the bulk of the team.

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 21:33

From the 11 years old hibs,hearts,Celtic and Aberdeen have great teams of boys tbh.
Fife had at least 7 of these boys training with them and would not sign them and they went to Hibs etc.
Why? The set up at Fife is one of the worst Iv seen and we are loosing local lads that want to play together to other teams...



Post Edited (Sat 16 Jan 21:40)
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: FA1968  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 22:14

Probably the way the OF are looking at it as well, Colt teams in the lower leagues.

Our Youth Development program has been criticised since I was a bairn with no real return on minimal investment. The only really successful Academy/Youth Program has been Aberdeen`s around 25 years ago which regularly churned out a reasonable standard of player.



Post Edited (Sat 16 Jan 22:18)
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 22:53

The alternative view is that you get some investment, say from Germany, build a bit of infrastructure, get the coaching right throughout all age levels of the club and develop a reputation for giving young players a chance, making them better and providing a platform for them to move on to bigger clubs.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: FA1968  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 23:20

A much sounder structured business plan I think DGPA, which is the only way the Investors will see a return for their investment.

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Sat 16 Jan 23:26

There is a good research report here worth looking at which may add to the debste.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ecaeurope.com/media/2730/eca-report-on-youth-academies.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj57ID5yqHuAhUD-6wKHb91BZUQFjASegQIGRAB&usg=AOvVaw2-gMnIKUQTeI5W3rlDJHxD
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sun 17 Jan 02:36

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Sat 16 Jan 20:20

Martin - injury prone and doesn't stand out when he does play as a player who can make the step to next level.
.

If Martin stays clear of injuries he's absolutely a premier league player.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sun 17 Jan 02:43

Quote:

FA1968, Sat 16 Jan 23:20

A much sounder structured business plan I think DGPA, which is the only way the Investors will see a return for their investment.



It's not though, for one having that structured youth set up with all the bells and whistles to compete with Hearts and Hibs etc costs money, an absolute shed load of it. And it's not like you bang in a one off payment, it's money every year that's going in over a prolonged period of time. You also the need the manager to buy into it and continually play these youth prodigys, considering most managers are a bad run of form away from the sack it's pretty hard to get them to buy into that idea.

Is that better than just investing more in the scouting side of the club and picking up 16-20 year olds who have been cast off from larger sides/up and coming players from the lower leagues?

Kevin Nisbet was brought in for nothing, cost us hee haw to develop and will net us over half a million pound.

We've sold 2 youth products for money during my time supporting the Pars, PJ Crossan and Iain Campbell, I doubt the combined total of both sales would run an academy for one year.

Invest more in the scouting side of the first time trying to pick up undervalued players, from living down in England for a while I've been to plenty Brentford games and it's the way forward.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 17 Jan 09:34

It's down to the people managing the club. There are different models that work all over the world. Equally, there's even more examples of the same models failing because they aren't as well executed.

There's no doubt the Brentford method or the Udinese/Watford plan have both worked well on the whole.

Falkirk, on the other hand, seemed to have an excellent youth set up and sold plenty of players for 6 or even 7 figure sums and definitely had a reputation for being somewhere kids would get played, flourish and be able to go on to somewhere where they start earning folding money.

Of course, they had experience around the youngsters, but they seemed to do reasonably well. I know it was ditched, but I also know the board who made that decision have gone now. They also made the decision when they were looking at cutting costs, short-term, to throw more money at trying to avoid relegation - a situation they'd caused themselves by unsuccessfully trying to plunder the academy market down south.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sun 17 Jan 12:09

Quote:

DA-go Par Adonis, Sun 17 Jan 09:34
.

Falkirk, on the other hand, seemed to have an excellent youth set up and sold plenty of players for 6 or even 7 figure sums and definitely had a reputation for being somewhere kids would get played, flourish and be able to go on to somewhere where they start earning folding money.



It wasn't massively profitable though due to the costs involved in the academy, as well as that Falkirk never achieved promotion.


Not a model that seemed very successful tbh.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie  
Date:   Sun 17 Jan 12:23

Quote:

Gun Mech par, Sat 16 Jan 10:54

Facilities have not really been an issue for me, like I said my boy was at Barrowfield until last year and its by far the worst of all academies, the pitch is the worst ever, but broken promises from Celtic on getting it upgraded. Fortunately now before the stoppage of youth football and all of last year they have been training at St Ninians High school. Dunfermline need to concentrate on the quality of coaching and having an attractive academy with a pathway. I know parent from all over the Central belt that travel to various academies as they belive they suit their boys. And I can guarantee you not one would consider Fife Elite.
I have seen marked improvement in Killie as I know Paul Di Giacomo who was the u13s coach(now with Celtic), St mirren with Stevie Thomsons son.
My son goes to Graeme High in Falkirk and theres no Fife elite players there but plenty of the smaller teams like St Johnstone and St Mirren, and with Fife Elite supposed to be the same set up as Forth Valley it shows to me it isn't working for us at all.
I personally know dads and players of the top u13s Elite teams that would love to have their boys at a Dunfermline academy with the right coaching but not with the current set up.


What age level is he at?

I know the Lennoxtown setup reasonably well from living there for a few years. Didn't realise they still used Barrowfield except for the youngest age groups so if he's still there he won't be far off moving up? Facilities there are first class.

Not sure how the performance schools go for where you live but St Ninnians in Kirkintilloch was the local one and it has an excellent reputation academically.

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"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 17 Jan 12:52

"It wasn't massively profitable though due to the costs involved in the academy, as well as that Falkirk never achieved promotion.


Not a model that seemed very successful tbh."

For a proportion of that time, the were in the SPL, so had nowhere to be promoted. When they came down, they made the play-offs regularly, but were unfortunate enough to be doing well when the likes of Rangers, Hibs, Hearts and Utd were in the same league. They were also level in the cup final with 5 minutes to go and a man advantage. I think their performance on the pitch stacks up for a small club. They had a bad start and season, sacked Houston and have thankfully gone in to meltdown since.

Re the cost vs income from their academy, none of the two of us really know. You'd need to know the inner workings of their management accounts and other factors within the club. I do know that the board running the club when the academy was axed, were not well thought of (evidenced by their dealing of the Dene Shiels debacle).

No doubt some years it's not going to pay off, but it would be interesting to see what players they've sold over the years, apportione it across the time they really started to work on their youth system and ask a reputable chairman if they think the income covers the cost.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.


Post Edited (Sun 17 Jan 13:13)
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Gun Mech par  
Date:   Sun 17 Jan 13:01

Quote:

TAFKA_Super_Petrie, Sun 17 Jan 12:23

Quote:

Gun Mech par, Sat 16 Jan 10:54

Facilities have not really been an issue for me, like I said my boy was at Barrowfield until last year and its by far the worst of all academies, the pitch is the worst ever, but broken promises from Celtic on getting it upgraded. Fortunately now before the stoppage of youth football and all of last year they have been training at St Ninians High school. Dunfermline need to concentrate on the quality of coaching and having an attractive academy with a pathway. I know parent from all over the Central belt that travel to various academies as they belive they suit their boys. And I can guarantee you not one would consider Fife Elite.
I have seen marked improvement in Killie as I know Paul Di Giacomo who was the u13s coach(now with Celtic), St mirren with Stevie Thomsons son.
My son goes to Graeme High in Falkirk and theres no Fife elite players there but plenty of the smaller teams like St Johnstone and St Mirren, and with Fife Elite supposed to be the same set up as Forth Valley it shows to me it isn't working for us at all.
I personally know dads and players of the top u13s Elite teams that would love to have their boys at a Dunfermline academy with the right coaching but not with the current set up.


What age level is he at?

I know the Lennoxtown setup reasonably well from living there for a few years. Didn't realise they still used Barrowfield except for the youngest age groups so if he's still there he won't be far off moving up? Facilities there are first class.

Not sure how the performance schools go for where you live but St Ninnians in Kirkintilloch was the local one and it has an excellent reputation academically.


Hello TAFKA, hes in his first year in the intermediate academy u13, with COVID the academy are not allowed to use Lennoxtown. Hes used it for games and the odd international academy visits and recently games due to the Barrowfield astro not being fit for purpose for the older boys. In the few games they have played last year it was back to the grass pitch at Barrowfield, and they used Clyde's stadium a couple of times.

We knocked back the St Ninians programme as they wanted him to join in S2 , we told Celtic that he will be joining a high school and staying put so he joined greame high a couple of years back, as its easier for travel and he doesn't need to get a taxi early in the morning. I work at Grangemouth so the SFA school is ideal for us.

He was still training at St Ninians 3 nights a week before Christmas after the tier 4 was reduced in Kirkintilloch, now its all home programmes for now.

Post Edited (Sun 17 Jan 13:11)
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sun 17 Jan 13:59

In the past, each club could only sign a certain number of youth players for a given season, meaning that there was value in most clubs taking players from a young age. Without that limit, the big clubs will be able to take nearly all of the most promising youth players and it just seems inevitable to me that smaller clubs are going to be limited to the occasional player who wasn`t spotted by a big club but who goes on to make it.

Raith Rovers recently sold a player that came through FEFA and there have been the odd one or two from other small clubs with Hamilton noticeably making a lot of money from a couple of players sold a decade ago. But, coaching players from the age of 10-16 is unlikely ever to produce regular income for any of these clubs, so it`s totally fair to question it. Putting money into it is the same as taking a long-term speculative bet at long odds against - a gamble that might pay off, but probably won`t. Occasionally it will, but does the return from the odd player who makes it justify the costs?

If it`s purely a financial decision, it probably doesn`t make sense to do it. However, football clubs also need to have some community involvement, and giving local players a way into professional football maybe has to be seen as a part of that. Probably not quite as simple as a simple financial calculation.

On balance, I think I prefer the option of forgetting it below age 16, and trying to pick up players released elsewhere from that age on. It would be interesting to know where players aged 20-25, currently playing in the top two divisions, started out in youth football. Knowing what percentage played at Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs and Abedeen, who smaller clubs will never be able to match, would be useful info.

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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: SeasonedPar  
Date:   Sun 17 Jan 14:29

Agreed, nowadays the main consideration has to be a financial return from the academy.

The community involvement is a very important point, but getting sponsorship to top up SFA grants must be pretty hard in our current climate. It’ll be interesting to see the plans of our new investors and again the key word is investor - while supporting community involvement, they rightly expect a level of return
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 17 Jan 14:34

Came back to add that the ethos behind the club, and part of the reason we attracted investment, was the community involvement of the club.

Socks has kind of made the point though.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Sun 17 Jan 15:03

Quote:

Grant, Sun 17 Jan 02:36

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Sat 16 Jan 20:20

Martin - injury prone and doesn't stand out when he does play as a player who can make the step to next level.
.

If Martin stays clear of injuries he's absolutely a premier league player.


On what evidence? He hasn't had a long run in the team

c'mon the pars
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sun 17 Jan 15:07

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Sun 17 Jan 15:03

Quote:

Grant, Sun 17 Jan 02:36

Quote:

cammypar 1995, Sat 16 Jan 20:20

Martin - injury prone and doesn't stand out when he does play as a player who can make the step to next level.
.

If Martin stays clear of injuries he's absolutely a premier league player.


On what evidence? He hasn't had a long run in the team



Well he has, he played pretty much every game last season? And was consistently our best player.
The season where we reached the playoffs he was a big improvement on Jason Talbot at left back.
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 Re: Dunfermline Pro Youth Academy
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sun 17 Jan 15:48

We don't know for sure that he can cut it in the Premier League because he has never played there. On the flip side, Shaun Rooney is plying his trade up there.

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I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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