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 sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: bigdonnie  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 14:26

article in record today about sir alex hattrick v gers in xmas 1964 put us top of league if we had beat st johnstone at eepark would have won the league seems in report fergie missed good chances to win it in 1-1 drawe probably one of best pars teams ever

donald mcneil
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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 16:23

Yes great days for the Pars and indeed for Scottish football. In Sir Alex`s words makes us feel vewwy pwoud vewwy proud. But watching football from that era emphasises how different it is now, at least for the elite teams who plan their attacks very carefully and work out from the back. The emphasis on ball retention is far more important and skillful ability with the ball in tight spots much more emphasised.



Post Edited (Thu 18 Feb 16:25)
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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 17:36

The biggest change in football during my lifetime has been the shift towards possession being paramount. When I watched Fergie play for the Pars, territory was as important as possession. A player in an attacking area who did not attempt to play the ball forward would be jeered by the crowd, whereas now the player is more likely to be jeered if he attempts a forward pass and loses possession.

Both these approaches have their weak points. In Fergie’s day a wide player would often knock over a poorly struck cross just to keep some vague sort of pressure on the opposition, not really expecting to create a clear opportunity. In the modern game the opposite applies: a player in a wide area will play the ball backwards until it ends up at the halfway line, is recycled across the back four, then ends back on the opposite wing where another wide player repeats the process.

Players now, particularly defenders, are far better at taking a pass and keeping possession. The lighter ball can be pinged around faster than the leather one, plus the restrictions on tackling mean the man on the ball is not at the same risk of being clattered as he was before.

Here’s half hour highlights of Liverpool beating Man City in 1978 with Souness and Dalglish at the height of their powers. Liverpool were known as a possession based side but they are hitting more hopeful balls forward than most teams would do today. There are fewer stoppages for injured players despite some biting tackles, and appeals to the referee are rare. The coaches on the touchline are not considered worthy of attention from the camera. The pace of the game looks as fast as today except that with only one substitute it cannot be maintained, and you can see tiredness in the latter part of the match.

https://youtu.be/lCLA_tg0dO8

If the link doesn’t work it is on youtube, Man City v Liverpool, 26/08/1978

sammer
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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 17:40

Beating St.Johnstone would not have necessarily won the title for the Pars.

I suspect the Record may need to review their records - we did not play Rangers at EEP in 64/65 until mid April - and Sir Fergie didn`t score in the 3-1 victory that night.

Post Edited (Thu 18 Feb 21:20)
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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 17:42

Quote:

sammer, Thu 18 Feb 17:36


https://youtu.be/lCLA_tg0dO8
Works now


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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 17:44

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 18 Feb 17:40

Beating St.Johnstone would not have necessarily won the title for the Pars.

I suspect the Record may need to review thier records - we did not play Rangers at EEP in 64/65 until mid April - and Sir Fergie didn`t score in the 3-1 victory that night.


The Record in shoddy journalism scandal.... Whodathunkit eh 🤣


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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 18:13

Pitches for elite teams are far better presented now which makes the accurate passing game much more possible. In British winters most pitches became bare and rutted which made for a more hit and hope approach.

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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: yorkiepar  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 18:15

Can’t believe they didn’t go to VAR for Man City’s goal and Liverpool’s fourth 😏 Shoddy refereeing! What’s the point in having the technology if you don’t use it?

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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 18:24

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 18 Feb 17:40

Beating St.Johnstone would not have necessarily won the title for the Pars.

I suspect the Record may need to review thier records - we did not play Rangers at EEP in 64/65 until mid April - and Sir Fergie didn`t score in the 3-1 victory that night.


Beat me to it, VEE. I was pretty certain Fergie never scored a hat trick v Rangers at any time during his Pars career, so I checked my Black & White Magic book.

Either someone at the Daily Retard has a feeble imagination or Bigdonnie is talking out of a hole in his balaclava. 🙂



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 19:01

Here is the actual league table at 3pm on Saturday 24th April 1965.

Below that is the "what if" table had the Pars beaten St. Johnstone 2-1 the previous Saturday at EEP rather than the 1-1 draw.


Played / Won / Drawn / Lost / Goals For / Goals Against / Points

Hearts : 33 / 21 / 6 / 6 / 90 / 47 / 50
Kilmarnock : 33 / 21 / 6 / 6 / 60 / 33 / 48
Dunfermline : 33 / 21 / 5 / 7 / 78 / 36 / 47

Played / Won / Drawn / Lost / Goals For / Goals Against / Points

Hearts : 33 / 21 / 6 / 6 / 90 / 47 / 50
Dunfermline : 33 / 22 / 4 / 7 / 79 / 36 / 48
Kilmarnock : 33 / 21 / 6 / 6 / 60 / 33 / 48

The Pars were playing Celtic in the Cup Final so obviously they would have a game in hand - Hearts hosted Killie at Tynecastle.

The key point was that Killie had to win that game by an appropriate score to thwart the Jam Tarts and then hope that Celtic would either draw or win at EEP midweek to make them champions.

In either scenario Hearts only needed a draw to take the title.

I`ll let GG do the arithmetic - the battery on my calculator .................



Post Edited (Thu 18 Feb 20:04)
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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: Townsvillepar  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 20:02

I remember the misses by Fergie and the frustrations that he showed. The result when Killie beat Hearts at Tynecastle was the score that they needed to win the league (I have a good friend here in Townsville who is a Killie fan and he was at the game). However if my memory serves me right the Pars had to play Celtic during the week at East End, after the Cup Final. The Pars won 5 1 at a canter. I remember Hugh Mackie playing that night for Celtic. Oh if we had won by the same margin on the Saturday before in the Cup Final. Would we have won by such a score if the league was still within our grasp, and we had won the Cup? The reality is that even if we had beaten St Johnstone, we would have won on goal average (not goal difference as it is now). The memories!

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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 20:10

Townseviile - it was Hugh Maxwell.

We would only have won the league, regardless of the score v Celtic, if Hearts couldn`t manage a drawn against Killie.

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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 20:18

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 18 Feb 20:10

Townseviile - it was Hugh Maxwell.

We would only have won the league, regardless of the score v Celtic, if Hearts couldn`t manage a drawn against Killie.


That's true, but then regardless of the Dunfermline-St Johnstone score, Hearts still went into the match with Kilmarnock knowing that they would be champions if they managed to draw - and they didn't.

If's, but's and maybe's ...

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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: Townsvillepar  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 20:51

Ah yes it was Hugh Maxwell. the one with the pigeon chest. Thanks VEE
We still had to beat Celtic in the last game, as we finished one point behind Hearts and Killie.

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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 21:25

Alex Ferguson did score a hattrick against Rangers but as far as I remember correctly it was for his previous team St. Johnstone.

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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 21:30

Hugh Maxwell had a spell at EEP of course - strange looking player.

He very nearly equalled Jimmy McGrory’s all time Scottish league scoring record of 8 goals in a single game.

He scored 7 on his Falkirk debut at Brockville but couldn’t notch another in the last fifteen minutes.
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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: Townsvillepar  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 21:33

I can just remember Hugh Maxwell playing for the Pars.

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 Re: sir alex ferguson
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 18 Feb 21:33

Quote:

Paralex, Thu 18 Feb 21:25

Alex Ferguson did score a hattrick against Rangers but as far as I remember correctly it was for his previous team St. Johnstone.


Correct, at Ibrox - I mind coming back from Glasgow and reading details on the train - we had lost at Shawfield if memory serves.........nothing new there !!!
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