DAFC.net
Home 08 May 2021 
 Post Message  |  Top of Board  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Twitter Updates  |  Log In   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 
[ please login to use the Like feature ]
 ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 21 Apr 13:18

To the relief of countless millions of football fans, the elitist European Super League was stillborn and buried within 48 hours, but is it really dead or will we see another ugly reincarnation in a few years time?

With 8 of the Dirty Dozen making their excuses and bowing out already, the remaining clubs have little option but to throw in the towel - for now. Juventus chairman, Andrea Agnelli has admitted as much but still feels that the proposal had a lot of merit and indicated that they (Juve, Milan, Real and Barca) will now sit down to "reshape the project." He also believes the current bid failed because of Brexit..... 😃

https://www.politico.eu/article/juventus-chief-blames-brexit-for-super-league-collapse/

So why did this ill conceived bid fail?

1. It was hatched by executives who only thought about how many $billions it would bring in. There was no consultation with fans, players, managers, national associations, UEFA or FIFA.

2. It would have been more or less a closed shop - the 15* founder clubs would have played every year, regardless of where they finished in the final table. (* The 12 plus PSG, Bayern and BVB, whom they hoped to persuade to join.)

How might they have got what they wanted?

1. Bring their proposal to UEFA and come up with concessions which would benefit all football clubs who didn`t make the ESL, by sharing the prize money generously.

2. Make it accessible to all clubs by building in a pyramid system. e.g. Invite 40 clubs, based on current UEFA rankings, rather than historical merit or the size of a club`s current debt. Split them into two leagues of 20, with 4 up and 4 down between ESL 1 and 2. The bottom 4 in ESL 2 would be replaced by the 4 semi finalists of the new competition which would have to replace the CL.

Clubs playing in the ESL would not play in domestic competitions and those relegated from ESL 2 would return to their national leagues.



Post Edited (Wed 21 Apr 13:19)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Thu 22 Apr 01:32

The economics have not changed despite the heartening response of the last few days. The same people are in charge, within and without football. So GG`s forecast of a European elite league is as valid today as it was yesterday, or the 10 years ago he outlined it.

The fascist ideology behind the ESL- that the strong must dominate the weak- has to be smashed. If not, the ESL beer hall putsch will reappear in a more malignant form further down the line. EUFA has the power to punish those who attempted this coup and if EUFA does not do this- at a time it has popular support to do so- then it will be consumed at some time in the future.

I fear EUFA`s own interests are too closely entwined with those of the ESL to take the action required.

sammer
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 22 Apr 08:13

Much will depend on how hard UEFA chooses to sanction those breakaway clubs. It`s a very fine line that the football authorities have to navigate here.

I think if UEFA was to say, cancel those clubs` entry into European competitions next season, then those clubs would simply create a tournament for themselves. And that would, in all likelihood, make them even more money that if they played within the confines of UEFA.

If that were the case, then I think the breakaway would quickly be revived and the process of separation would be accelerated.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Thu 22 Apr 08:16

Been a little funny seeing all these highly paid players and ex players getting bend out of shape.

They aren't too bothered in making a mint themselves for kicking a ball around but go up in arms when someonr tries to make a few quid more.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Thu 22 Apr 08:16

You say the economics hasn`t changed, but look at the proposal that they made - no broadcast partner, no indication of other funding other than the JP Morgan cash, no word on sponsors, no word on solidarity payments, no word on salary cap, no word on websites, games, image rights, whatever. It seems half baked, and the American owners who fancy replicating the guaranteed profit of the NFL model failed to see that it wouldn`t work in European football. I`m not sure that the numbers stack up in terms of Asian and American audiences, I don`t see how they`ll squeeze more money out of Pay TV and I don`t see what the likes of JP Morgan are getting out of it unless there was some sort of mechanism to guarantee a profit. The proposal was amateur and I can`t see it returning any time soon thankfully.

Now the "weaker and smaller" members of the ECA and UEFA need to push back against the stupid Swiss system and legacy coefficient places to try and push home their advantage while they are relatively powerful and popular. Hopefully we get some fairer distribution of prize money etc. but I`m not Golding my breath.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 22 Apr 08:19

I think you're right Oz. I don't think UEFA have much room to maneuvere here and I don't see them levying any kind of meaningful punishment either as they want/need to keep them in the fold.

I wouldn't be surprised if they worked with all the sides to try and give them a bigger slice of the revenue with changed announced in the next 2 to 4 years.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: SeasonedPar  
Date:   Thu 22 Apr 08:44

Change is always inevitable. The ESL was a huge mistake by the clubs - in itself their self-interest and lack of awareness is astounding - unless the ill-conceived project from multi millionaire owners has been floated to test out the potential flaws?

There’s the basis of a great idea there but it must involve fan consultation, a fairer share of the funding to all clubs and promotion/relegation. Big hurdles!

Imagine also a midweek geographic European league for mid-table clubs, with a shortened domestic league to accommodate. End of the stale x 4 format and new opponents to watch live or PPV?

Pars v Dutch, Belgian or French opponents?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: ghostrider  
Date:   Thu 22 Apr 12:08

Sounds to me SeasonPar that what you are suggesting as almost a UEFA League of Nations Format but for clubs instead.

How long do you think it will take them to figure that out and make it as a suggestion to a new CL format.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: SeasonedPar  
Date:   Thu 22 Apr 15:53

Quote:

ghostrider, Thu 22 Apr 12:08

Sounds to me SeasonPar that what you are suggesting as almost a UEFA League of Nations Format but for clubs instead.

How long do you think it will take them to figure that out and make it as a suggestion to a new CL format.


Could well be Ghostrider. But it would be with consultation and negotiation, safeguards over money, and the integrity of promotion and relegation.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Thu 22 Apr 16:39

Change in the game is inevitable and necessary. Given the salaries and running costs of bigger clubs one of the driving factors for change is bound to be financial. There is a price for success and perhaps some of that cost is coming to fruition now. I suspect gone are the days when decisions were made purely on a footballing basis.

Ultimately it depends on what you consider success to be. For smaller clubs like ours, we will never win major tournaments so you have to refocus your metrics to what success should look like. This could be community focus, local engagement, entertainment, success in terms of performance in the higher leagues. Ultimately thegoals have to be measurable and achievable.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 22 Apr 17:15

To me the issue is how big some clubs have become. It essentially makes it unfair on other teams. In Scotland, outside the OF, the size of support and therefore income is largely down to the size of the population around that club. Not so down south.

Promotion into the Premiership results in massive financial rewards. The rewards for sponsors are massive - promotion on TV, in computer games and on humans walking around. Sponsors will pay a lot to be on those strips and around the stadium.

This creates a big issue when team fall out of the Premiership. It's a road to disaster when income is drastically cut and they still have to pay for "superstars". They then need spend to try and get back up.

Look at teams like Newcastle and Blackburn. When I was young they were big teams. Not so much now.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 22 Apr 17:46

I find it hard to believe the ESL clubs were prepared to announce their plans without having a broadcaster on board. Maybe the said broadcaster preferred to keep in the background to see how the news was received before going public.

It`s also a bit rich seeing all these pundits who make a good living out of hawking themselves around the various broadcasters crying `foul` at these proposals. How many of them would turn down the chance of commentating on these games if given the chance?

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Thu 22 Apr 18:32

I remember in the olden days, before the advent of global media and universal access to the internet, that you could go away on holiday for a week or so and be completely oblivious to world events happening elsewhere and only discover months or years later about something that happened or someone who had died whilst you were incommunicado.

I had really been paying attention this week but it turns out I virtually missed the not only the launch but also the collapse of the ESL.

Three things immediately spring to mind.

One is the advent of the SPL – I’ve spoken about this before, but this was intended to revolutionise, modernise and better monetise the Scottish game. Opinion seemed to be divided as to its merits, largely dependent on whether you were going to be better off; whether you were “In” or “out”. Ultimately, I think it did not achieve its aims.

A second was World Series Cricket – Kerry Packer did revolutionise the game, but there was a lot of grief for a while, with players being banned. (This foreshadowed rebel tours to apartheid era South Africa, and further bans). Ultimately I think the game of cricket was marketed better, became more profitable and most players since have benefited.

The third is the concern that with the vast sums involved, and the vast indebtedness of the industry, is that financial model is fractured, and ultimately may collapse. (Was it ITV Digital that went bust about 20 years ago? As well as Setanta…)

There is a whiff of hypocrisy here IMO. In the past fans have seemed to be relatively comfortable for rich owners to take over their club and bankroll their way to success and to make it harder for other clubs to take their “rightful” position from them. The Scottish League was pretty much a closed shop for over 120 years.

If there is a problem (and I think there is) then there continues to be a need for a solution. Obviously the big participants are going to want a bigger cake and a bigger slice thereof and that will remain the case. I fear I am in agreement with GG and we haven’t seen the last of this. (Not that I was particularly bothered to be honest; I’m not that fussed about watching Atletico play Milan once a season, let alone 15 or however many they were planning).

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Thu 22 Apr 19:45

I agree. I dont really know what the fuss is about. It wont affect us and wont change my world.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 23 Apr 07:17

"One is the advent of the SPL – I’ve spoken about this before, but this was intended to revolutionise, modernise and better monetise the Scottish game. Opinion seemed to be divided as to its merits, largely dependent on whether you were going to be better off; whether you were “In” or “out”. Ultimately, I think it did not achieve its aims."

Indeed, MT, as I recall having a Super League of 10 clubs, pushed through by the OF in the early 70s, was supposed to cure all our games problems with a single stroke. Instead of visits from poorly supported clubs like Airdrie and Stirling Albion, the Premier Division clubs would get an extra visit from the OF, Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen. Clubs would also be allowed to keep their own gate money, which didn`t turn out to be too great a deal for all but the OF.

The Pars voted in favour, but didn`t make the cut. It would be 12 years of scrapping around in the lower leagues before Jim Leishman led us to the Promised Land..........

Back to the modern version - it seems that one of the prime movers is convinced that he can resuscitate his pet project:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56842442



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 25 Apr 07:28

Havering or slavering?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56873448



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Sun 25 Apr 07:29)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: yorkiepar  
Date:   Sun 25 Apr 08:46

Yes. Saw that article, GG. Sounds either like a desperate man or one with an utterly ruthless and determined agenda. If what he says is true though the concept of an ESL or something similar is not going to fade away anytime soon .... as you have previously pointed out.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 25 Apr 09:37

Good input from Rovers` fan Gordon Brown there.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Sun 25 Apr 09:52

Yes, good words from Gordon Brown, he is a genuine fan like us so knows what it`s about.

On the ESL the football authorities should crush this gently.

Already the clubs resigned from the big table, and in no way will get back in until the CL is reformed.

On the EPL the clubs have already been written to,expect their resignation s to avoid sackings. Then the 14 clubs can decide what to do.

There can`t be negotiation here, as it`s just a tool to take it further.

Real and More Than A Club have a combined debt of 2Billion, that`s the story.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: ESL - Down but not out
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 25 Apr 11:42

I'm no legal eagle, so I've no idea how legally binding a "legally binding" contract is. Perhaps they'll each have to pay an exorbitant fine? Serves them right if they do. It appears that the 14 Premiership clubs want the "Big 6" sanctioned in some way, but nothing too drastic - they're not daft and are well aware that they need them to safeguard TV money.

An interesting article in the Manchester United Evening News suggests that the prime movers were Real and Juve, with support from Barca, Liverpool....... and United.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/what-pep-guardiola-told-khaldoon-20453775.amp

A similar picture is unfolding in Serie A, where 11 clubs have said that "Juve, Milan and Inter must face consequences."

Neils, in the interests of fairness, if you're going to refer to Barca as "More than a club", Real have to be "The Galacticos." 🙂



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Sun 25 Apr 11:43)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Top of Board  |  Forum List  |  Threaded View   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 


Rows: 0
 Forum List  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Security : type 'pars' in the box:
email:
© 2020 -- DAFC.net