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 Honesty
Topic Originator: BlackLight  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 17:05

In my job, if you achieve your goals you get rewarded.

If SC`s goal was getting into the playoffs, then he gets whatever is promised to him (which presumably, isn`t the sack)

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: squish  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 17:08

This a joke?


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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 17:09

That is the puzzle. As turgid and lacking in entertainment as it has been, it`s difficult to create a case for sacking a manager whose team have spent the vast majority of the season in the Top 3 and have now ultimately qualified for the play off`s, when realistically that was the achievable aim.
Much will depend on the efforts in the knockout games I`d think.

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 17:19

If the board/investors look at our performances over the last 4/5 months, I’d be amazed if they believe Crawford is the right man to take us forward.

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 17:55

What makes you think the Board (three of the German investors have been members of the Board all season, BTW) have not been watching the matches and looking at performances, as well as being privy to all the behind-the-scenes stuff that none of us sees?

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Post Edited (Sat 24 Apr 17:56)
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: The moose  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 17:57

Quote:

Stanza, Sat 24 Apr 17:55

What makes you think the Board (three of the German investors have been members of the Board all season, BTW) have not been watching the matches?


Come on Stanza, he has to go.

BCM
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: Bannockburn Par  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 18:05

Crawford will gone by Xmas, the football has been horrible for months. Any other club and he would have walked ago.

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: PARS207  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 19:00

you must be raging tonight then bannockburn we got into the playoffs.....

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 19:17

Crawford very much in the same situation as Neilson at Hearts ,both may have achieved the targets set by the respective boards, but the fans have not been happy with the style of play,and a fair amount of the results .
A question for both boards, can you sack a manager who achieved targets,or do take account of the fans reaction to the on field play ?

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 19:20

BlackLights put down a pretty simplistic post which I don’t think is inaccurate to be honest.

If the objective was playoffs, and he’s achieved it, then a tick in a box and an easy nights sleep for him, well so it should be.

In majority of other job performance reviews it would be classed as ‘met expectations’.

Do I think he is the long term best option for us, certainly not but it’ll be hard to justify giving him the boot if he’s delivering what was asked of him.

You have to give him some credit, after that spanking from Raith we’ve gone five games unbeaten, not pretty by any means and has been tactically naive for me but.. it’s been effective as evidenced by us securing playoffs with a game to spare.

What’s his contract situation?
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 19:21

Quote:

saltonsgonagetu, Sat 24 Apr 19:17

Crawford very much in the same situation as Neilson at Hearts ,both may have achieved the targets set by the respective boards, but the fans have not been happy with the style of play,and a fair amount of the results .
A question for both boards, can you sack a manager who achieved targets,or do take account of the fans reaction to the on field play ?


This....
I'm personally utterly confused.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 19:21

`Crawford will gone by Xmas,..`

What a strange comment but it makes as much sense as a lot of the stuff on here.

The last two games have been pretty entertaining if you like biting your nails.

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: rossmcno1  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 19:27

For me, if he gets us up through the playoffs, then he deserves to have a chance to lead us in the Premier League.

If not, then for me it’s time for a change. Our performances have been as a whole unacceptable over the season, and we have staggered over the line for playoffs in 4th place, which is the minimum objective.

We have recent history when a manager has demonstrated inability to take us forward in strides, and our stuttering results and performances are no better than AJ in his third season. We MUST learn from our mistakes. A Crawford led team in the Championship next season will haemorrhage season ticket holders and support in my opinion.



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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: d3monstrate  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 19:30

"What’s his contract situation?"

Is he still on the rolling contract that was signed at the start? Don`t remember anything to say otherwise...

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: vasco  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 19:34

Making the play-offs with a game to spare after some poor form isn`t bad given the artificial match atmosphere with no fans present.
Pars were knocked out of both cups on penalties, once by a Premiership club.
In theory 3 wins and 3 defeats and we can still be in the top league next season.
Neither Dundee nor Raith are significantly better and it`s looking like it`s between Hamilton and Ross County for the play-off final, both of these are eminently beatable.
I`m hopeful and definitely not confident but we are still in there.

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: ParfectXI  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 19:35

Okay he ticked the box of reaching the playoffs, but the collapse that led us to dropping out of 2nd place has got to be a cross in the box, especially since it happened last year too.

The other thing the BOD will look at is style of play/entertainment value, while you have your hardcore season ticket holders and fans who will go to every game they can no matter what, the ultimate aim is to get as many fans through the gates and to keep them coming back. This again is another big cross, if the gates were open and a member of public came to some of our home games recently they’d go home bored and doubtful of going back on a regular basis.

As he’s on a year to year contract and may not cost anything to release him the sensible option would be to cut loose (or move him to another role like asst manager to a new man)

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 19:44

A one year rolling contract means he always has a one year contract, so if the club terminate that they owe him a years salary, and the same to whichever back room staff they also terminate. So he can’t be let go at no cost to the club.
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: 1985Par  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 19:48

Crawford`s done alright. Raith played some pretty good football the night they stuffed us but other than that I`m struggling to recall any game or any team that have blown me away with beautiful football. Every team bar the wee team are complaining about their manager and their playing style, even the team that won the league at a canter. If free flowing, passing, utopian style football is what you`re after, you`re looking in the wrong place in the Scottish championship. You struggle to find it in the premier.

Play-offs secured. Job done.

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 19:55

^^ not just the championship, its the same at every level and this is nothing to do with lockdowns, not being at games etc, this was happening long before that although its maybe accelerated a bit because of that.

i said 2 years ago Crawford shouldnt go but he might as well as some will never have it no matter what, still the case now as posts during and after the game show.

Post Edited (Sat 24 Apr 20:19)
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: ParfectXI  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 20:05

1985Par wrote:

> Crawford`s done alright. Raith played some pretty good football
> the night they stuffed us but other than that I`m struggling to
> recall any game or any team that have blown me away with
> beautiful football. Every team bar the wee team are complaining
> about their manager and their playing style, even the team that
> won the league at a canter. If free flowing, passing, utopian
> style football is what you`re after, you`re looking in the
> wrong place in the Scottish championship. You struggle to find
> it in the premier.
>
> Play-offs secured. Job done.
>
>


Not at all - just reading the stats ever since he took over is something akin to a Stephen King book. They are awful. We were complaining about the style of play, had he lost the dressing room, how we were struggling to see the positives last year as we finished in 6th (and if the season hadn’t ended then it could have been worse). 12 months on and it’s just the same. We may not get free flowing football but we do want heart and players motivated to win games.... that has been something we sadly have not had in a lot of games.

So yes he did the bare minimum and got us into the playoffs despite throwing away a 2nd place to manage a 4th (3rd is doubtful) but he’s not cut out to be a manager of a club such as ours (and apparently East Fife)

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 20:17

Come on, let’s give it a rest for the night, we’ve just qualified for the playoffs, right now don’t think many give a toss how we got there, fact of the matter is we’re there and that’s worthy of a celebration in itself.

Think we just need to put all negativity to one side and back the manager and the players.

For now, let’s just enjoy the win!
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 20:27

No doubt the folk who are screaming for his head now are the folk who told us after the 5-1 defeat to the Rovers that he`d lost the dressing-room and couldn`t motivate a team, that we`d be struggling to get another point and had more chance of being in the relegation play-offs than the promotion play-offs.

Well, he proved you all wrong. No doubt it was down to luck, like the run we had at the start of the season and all the goals we scored from set-plays, other teams `doing us a favour` etc.

Give the guy some credit and let`s see how the season pans out. And why bring up his time at East Fife which must be over 10 years ago when he was still playing as well?

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: cfad  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 20:31

Quote:

vasco, Sat 24 Apr 19:34

Making the play-offs with a game to spare after some poor form isn`t bad given the artificial match atmosphere with no fans present.
Pars were knocked out of both cups on penalties, once by a Premiership club.
In theory 3 wins and 3 defeats and we can still be in the top league next season.
Neither Dundee nor Raith are significantly better and it`s looking like it`s between Hamilton and Ross County for the play-off final, both of these are eminently beatable.
I`m hopeful and definitely not confident but we are still in there.


I feel that the lack of fans inside EEP has actually done the management team a favour in many ways. I've said it before, but the sheer amount of Boo Boys in our fan base would have maybe forced the boards hand before now, and most probably would have dented the teams confidence to the point where we wouldn't have made the playoffs. It can get really negative, really quickly inside EEP when things are not going well (certainty where I sit anyway), and for me that's always been an issue for our club. Not saying that everyone doesn't want us fans back in the stadium, just that it's a different dynamic
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 20:42

Could have gone the other way. Most home fans don't see the majority of away matches.

Our home record, results wise, is excellent this season.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 20:44

it isnt going to get any better when fans are allowed back in to grounds either cfad.

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 22:14

Quote:

Berry, Sat 24 Apr 20:17

Come on, let’s give it a rest for the night, we’ve just qualified for the playoffs, right now don’t think many give a toss how we got there, fact of the matter is we’re there and that’s worthy of a celebration in itself.

Think we just need to put all negativity to one side and back the manager and the players.

For now, let’s just enjoy the win!


Again...this.

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: StuPar82  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 23:05

Quote:

dd23, Sat 24 Apr 19:44

A one year rolling contract means he always has a one year contract, so if the club terminate that they owe him a years salary, and the same to whichever back room staff they also terminate. So he can’t be let go at no cost to the club.


That’s not my interpretation of what, to my mind, was a pretty ambiguous description of his employment arrangements . The above, as you describe, is surely a permanent contract with a one year notice period (rather than it being a rolling contract). I believe Stevie’s contract expires every May (presumably) with the default being it automatically rolls for another year unless the board decide to act otherwise.
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 23:05

Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Sat 24 Apr 20:42

Could have gone the other way. Most home fans don`t see the majority of away matches.

Our home record, results wise, is excellent this season

Great point with a 9-3-2 home record and making the playoffs, I think a season with fans in he would have a lot less complaining

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: fcda  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 23:11

Fine margins. Had we seen out the Dundee game from 2-0 up, we'd swap places with them and still be in contention for 2nd.

Post Edited (Sat 24 Apr 23:11)
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Sat 24 Apr 23:23

Quote:

fcda, Sat 24 Apr 23:11

Fine margins. Had we seen out the Dundee game from 2-0 up, we'd swap places with them and still be in contention for 2nd.


We were lucky we didn't lose that 5-2. We were never in that game after we went 2 up.

Awight Pat!
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: Gadgie59  
Date:   Sun 25 Apr 02:00

I think SC deserves some credit, or at least some slack.

With 6 games left to play this season, I really couldn’t imagine us winning another game - but, hey ho, we’ve beaten QOS & Arbroath; both of those teams being on good form prior to visiting EEP.

Personally, I anticipated a few dull draws and probably a sucker-punch defeat by Arbroath. But naturally I am absolutely chuffed at the last two results and also securing a promotion play-off spot.

Now living the dream that top-flight football awaits next season!

Is SC able to cut it as a Premiership manager?

I’d like to think so; but some of the performances over the last few months have been, well, horrendous.

Even after today’s 4-3 win, I came away feeling that Arbroath seemed to look like they were able to score all game; even when they were 2-0 and 4-2 down.
Is it just me? But I feel we don’t carry that sort of threat .... listen to me! We scored four goals. ..... aaaarrrrgggg!


“Football is a beautiful game,
It should be played beautifully.”
Brian Clough.
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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sun 25 Apr 02:32

The 12 Month Rolling Contract (by Mike Thornton)

This is a contract that is often mentioned in relation to managers and coaches of football clubs and is favoured because it allows a person to be employed for one season during which the fortunes of the club may change; promotion or demotion may, in the club’s eyes be tackled better with a new person in charge, for instance.

The 12 Month Fixed-term Contract is well understood by most people to be one that ends automatically when the season ends but many are confused when the word “Rolling” is included. Many users of social media have said that they interpret a 12 Month Rolling Contract to be a standard Indefinite-term contract as defined in the first section above and the notice period for either party is 12 months, rather than a more normal 30 days.

However, this is not the case: a 12 Month Rolling Contract is a 12 Month Fixed-term Contract, as defined in the second section above, that includes clauses under which each party can ask the other to renew it, or “roll it over”; either party can decide not to renew and there is no obligation on either side to pay compensation in such a case.

Thus, a typical Fixed-term Rolling Contract will normally include a date at which both parties should indicate whether they wish the contract to roll over at the termination date; this will often be set some months earlier than termination rather than being something like 30 days and allows each party sufficient time to find alternative employment or employees.
There is no limitation to what clauses can be added to such fixed-term rolling contracts and it is perfectly possible to add events such as promotion or relegation to the rollover decision.

Of course a normal Fixed-term Contract can be renewed when it ends but the benefit of the Rolling Fixed-term Contract is that both parties declare their intentions well in advance. Many a football manager/coach has been left in limbo until late in the season by indecisive club owners and Chairmen; the rolling contract helps to minimise this by allowing discussions between both parties to occur early and plans to be laid.

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 Re: Honesty
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 25 Apr 07:41

Quote:

BlackLight, Sat 24 Apr 17:05

In my job, if you achieve your goals you get rewarded.

If SC`s goal was getting into the playoffs, then he gets whatever is promised to him (which presumably, isn`t the sack)


The BoD will make a decision after the play offs. If we negotiate our way through 6 really tough games to win promotion, it's a no brainer - Crawford & Co will be rewarded with a new, improved contract. If we don't make it, much will depend on our German investors. If the minimum target was to secure a top 4 place, then that has been met. AJ was kept on when he achieved the same, but the make up of the Board has changed since then so it's anyone's guess.....



Not your average Sunday League player.
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