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 Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: Polt  
Date:   Sun 9 May 19:19

Even though we're out, I still believe the current play off system is highly unfair. Asking a team that finishes 4th to play 7 games in 21 days (if season ends on previous Saturday) just reeks.

Kelty vs Brora highly entertaining games it seems. Champion vs champion then 2 legs against play off place in league 2.

I am in favour of 12 teams in lower leagues. Also kinda like the league split after 22 games then home and away for 10 games. It should create a champion and a play off side. 1st and 2nd. No advantage to any team, teams well rested and hopefully have something to play for.

Scottish football needs a massive shake up. We have teams there able to create a larger more entertaining league which I am sure will attract better deals for the clubs. Cannae keep running it on pitiful prize money we currently see.
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 9 May 19:25

Two leagues of 22 4 up 4 down no split no playoffs simples

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 9 May 19:31

"I am in favour of 12 teams in lower leagues. Also kinda like the league split after 22 games then home and away for 10 games. It should create a champion and a play off side. 1st and 2nd. No advantage to any team, teams well rested and hopefully have something to play for."

Why not just let second top of lower league play off against second bottom of higher league in a single game at a neutral venue to determine league status the following season ?

Why a team 3rd or 4th in a league of 12 should get a chance at promotion is unfair on the second place side.

The classic example was when Brechin went up from 4th place in 2016/17 despite having lost more league games that they won in the regular season.

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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 9 May 19:51

It's just a money spinner. I preferred it when it was a simple second top Vs second bottom...apart from us losing against the likes of Aberdeen!
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Sun 9 May 19:55

Quote:

Polt, Sun 9 May 19:19

Even though we're out, I still believe the current play off system is highly unfair. Asking a team that finishes 4th to play 7 games in 21 days (if season ends on previous Saturday) just reeks.

Kelty vs Brora highly entertaining games it seems. Champion vs champion then 2 legs against play off place in league 2.

I am in favour of 12 teams in lower leagues. Also kinda like the league split after 22 games then home and away for 10 games. It should create a champion and a play off side. 1st and 2nd. No advantage to any team, teams well rested and hopefully have something to play for.

Scottish football needs a massive shake up. We have teams there able to create a larger more entertaining league which I am sure will attract better deals for the clubs. Cannae keep running it on pitiful prize money we currently see.


A team that finishes 4th in a 10 team league is frankly lucky to be in any promotion play Offs in my opinion.

Awight Pat!
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sun 9 May 19:59

Outside of the Old Firm, the terms "money-spinner" and "Scottish football" rarely work in the same sentence...

I agree with the idea of dropping the present system and returning to the second top v the second bottom arrangement.

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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Sun 9 May 20:00

Agree with FBLH and on that basis having them go through more fixtures to stand a chance to get promotion I’m in favour of tbh.
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Sun 9 May 20:02

Winners of Scottish cup guaranteed European football till xmas and up to 3m windfall, for clubs the size of both st Johnstone and Hibs that’s a pretty big Windfall.
Play offs for premiership weighted in favour of top league, again leagues and clubs missed the chance to sort this out a few years ago. Top league will never vote to change that now

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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 9 May 20:41

"A team that finishes 4th in a 10 team league is frankly lucky to be in any promotion play Offs in my opinion."

How did I think we were in a 12 team league - DOH !!!

Makes 4th place even less of an achievement, especially over 27 fixtures.

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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: Polt  
Date:   Sun 9 May 20:50

Quote:

dafc, Sun 09 May 20:02

Winners of Scottish cup guaranteed European football till xmas and up to 3m windfall, for clubs the size of both st Johnstone and Hibs that’s a pretty big Windfall.
Play offs for premiership weighted in favour of top league, again leagues and clubs missed the chance to sort this out a few years ago. Top league will never vote to change that now


That's the problem since they changed voting system it is totally in old firms hands. They talk about wanting to be in a competitive league....yet hold everyone else back.

I liked the old league set up. Agree with what people are saying about 2nd top and second bottom play off. There is limited ability for the leagues to say there is financial benefits. Apart from crowd and extra games there is only tv interest in the play off finals.

So after reading and seeing what folk are saying then.... spl don't want to change the top tier then experiment with lower leagues. Make them 2 x16 still have a play off final which is media's interest but 3 up 3 down with 4th top and bottom playing off.
I think if the leagues are increased so should the opportunity to be promoted or relegated.
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Mon 10 May 08:18

Team finishing 2nd bottom gets relegated. 4th plays 3rd at 3rds ground, one off game, winner plays 2nd at 2nds ground in one off game. Winner gets promoted.

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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Mon 10 May 09:52

I'm on board with BuspassPar, but I would have 2 leagues 22.

3 up 3 down

4th bottom plays 4th top home and away.

And to keep tv happy over Christmas and new year we can have.... The SKYQ Bigot Cup played over 2 legs. Tv gets it 4 hatred games

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.

Post Edited (Mon 10 May 09:53)
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: RhinoPars  
Date:   Mon 10 May 10:34

I like the 16 team top two division set up we have here in South Africa. This constant yo-yo`ing of fairly large clubs from Premier League to Championship is not good given the very different economics of the two leagues. Playing 15 different teams a season twice in the league is more interesting than just 9 or 11 four times a season. Relegation threat is lower. Here the bottom team is automatically relegated and the second bottom team goes into a home and away mini-league against the teams finishing 2nd and 3rd in the second tier league to settle final relegation/promotion spot. The top division side is not advantaged like in Scotland. Here there is a prestigious Top8 knockout cup tournament at the start of every season for the teams finishing in the top half of the league the previous season. Teams in mid to bottom of the table therefore have something to play for right up to the end of the season - either trying to finish in the top 8 or avoid being sucked into relegation positions. Our equivalent of the OF (Kaiser Chiefs and Orlando Pirates) also have a sponsored pre-season match for a Carling Black Label Cup in pre-season. Thus with Top 8 (and this cup) and the other two national cups, the bigger teams get to play a number of games against each other each season. The Top8, league cup and main cup equivalents (Telkom and Nedbank cups) are all respected. There is also a much fairer distribution of money which helps improve competitiveness of teams in the league.



Post Edited (Mon 10 May 10:35)
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: Polt  
Date:   Mon 10 May 11:07

That sounds pretty decent set up Rhinopar. If i remember correctly it was one of the reasons for the change in Scottish football was felt there was too many teams with nothing to play for near the end of the season. I like the idea of a mini league cup.
This playing teams 4 times is brutal tbh
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: RhinoPars  
Date:   Mon 10 May 12:29

Polt they still have a league cup equivalent earlier in the season for top 16 teams (except this year) and the main cup competition later in the season with the additional Top8 knockout cup first up and starting just before the league season. The best two supported clubs also have their annual pre-season challenge cup match. So much more interesting to play more teams less frequently in the league. With the Top8 competition most teams have something to play for right up to the end of the season most seasons despite the larger league. In the top 8 the team that finishes top plays 8th, 2nd plays 7th etc. Semi-finals are played over two legs and what is unusual is that the winner gets 58.8% of the prize money and remaining seven teams just get 5.9% of the prize money each. Thus the winner gets 10 times more than the other seven clubs in prize money. In 2020 total top8 prize money was £454,000 (R13.6m with winner taking R8m and other seven each R0.8m). Thus Top8 winner gets £267,000 which is similar to Betfred Cup winner getting £300,000. Not sure what happens re TV and gate takings.

Post Edited (Mon 10 May 17:47)
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: RhinoPars  
Date:   Mon 10 May 12:52

The local Telkom Cup was only open to the 16 teams in the top league. Total prize money for this competition last year was R14.2m with prize money + participation fee ranging from R450,000 for the 8 first round losers to R4.25m for the winner. Every club gets R250,000 participation fee with prize money varying from R200,000 to R4m. (1£=R19.38). Telkom has just stopped sponsoring this competition. Therefore this season there will only be two Cup competitions not three. It has been announced that a sponsor has been lined up for next season. Not having this cup this season will help ease fixture congestion in a Covid delayed season.

32 teams go into the main draw for the main Cup competition. This includes all 16 top league teams, half (8/16) of the second tier league teams (decided from 8 qualifying ties played by the 16 teams in that league) with the final 8 teams in the draw coming from lower divisions (with qualification through a series of qualifiers to get into the main draw). Prize money varies from R100,000 for last 32 to R7m for the winner. This is the only local cup competition where one can get giant killing by teams outwith the top league.

Again not sure what the payments are from TV or how gate revenue is split.

The main league has a system where each team in the top two leagues gets a monthly grant from the league with the balance being prize money according to final league position.

South Africa benefitted from having an Englishman, Trevor Phillips, involved with helping to set up and revamp their top premier league system. He was league CEO over two periods before retiring and had been involved with marketing and setting up of the Premier League in England. He emigrated to S.Africa and retired with his family here, sadly dying this year. I wonder what Scottish Football would have been like if he had been in charge of developing the game instead of the likes of Neil Doncaster.



Post Edited (Mon 10 May 13:03)
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Mon 10 May 13:00

If you go the entire season and play the other sides home and away finishing 1st or second, you have earned promotion. If you finish in the bottom 2, you deserve demotion.
Why should you have to earn the right to earn it again?

Dundee should be promoted.

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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Mon 10 May 13:08

The only 2 ways there will be a shake up in scottish football are

1) the bigot bros leave scottish football.

2) the other 40 teams decide to let the ugly sisters colt teams play in the SPFL lower leagues

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Mon 10 May 16:19

I like the set up as it is. Keeps the leagues interesting all the way through. One tweak I'd make is having 4th play 3rd and then the winners of that play the second bottom team in the semi.

The winner of that plays the 2nd place side. That way second is properly rewarded and second bottom doesn't have so much loaded in their favour. 3rd and 4th have to jump through hoops which is how it should be.
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Mon 10 May 16:21

"I like the set up as it is. Keeps the leagues interesting all the way through. One tweak I`d make is having 4th play 3rd and then the winners of that play the second bottom team in the semi.

The winner of that plays the 2nd place side. That way second is properly rewarded and second bottom doesn`t have so much loaded in their favour. 3rd and 4th have to jump through hoops which is how it should be. "

I don`t see why the bottom team deserves a second chance. relegate bottom and second bottom, then 3v4 with winner playing 2nd. All one off games.

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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Mon 10 May 16:39

Lamb, why does 2nd bottom deserve to be relegated but 2nd top in championship doesn't deserve promotion?

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Tue 11 May 08:08

"Lamb, why does 2nd bottom deserve to be relegated but 2nd top in championship doesn`t deserve promotion?"

A straight 2 up 2 down, would be my preference. But, if you`ve to have play off the 2 bottom team shouldn`t be involved imo.

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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Tue 11 May 09:53

Cheers lambo

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: Play Offs - need rejuvenation
Topic Originator: vasco  
Date:   Tue 11 May 18:09

I think we need proper reconstruction.

Top league 20 clubs play twice 38 games bottom 4 relegated.

Second League split into North and South - 12 clubs in each, play each other twice 22 games.
This league splits and top 6 in each play twice for 22 more games.
The top 4 are promoted.
The bottom 6 in each league play twice and also have 22 more games.
Points gained in first 22 games carry forward post split.
Bottom two relegated to Highland or Lowland League.
Highland / Lowland league winners promoted.

Pro`s - Should have a scramble for points to finish in top 6 in the second league. More match days for second league. Only have to play 5 teams 4 times a season rather than 9 teams. Removes unfairness of clubs winning Highland and Lowland leagues having to play another 4 games to get promoted and the current Premiership play-off debacle.
Con`s - because there will only be two Celtic v The Rangers games it`s a non feckin starter.

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