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 Simply the Best
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 23 May 06:50

An insightful article into the most extravagantly talented British footballer of all time. He would have been 75 yesterday.

https://www.football365.com/news/daniel-storey-portrait-of-an-icon-pele-good-maradona-better-george-best

Better than all the rest......



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: Angus_W  
Date:   Sun 23 May 07:44

Hibs could have done with him yesterday.



Post Edited (Sun 23 May 07:44)
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 23 May 07:55

Most talented British footballer ever? Yeah probably. Greatest ever British footballer though has to be King Kenny.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sun 23 May 08:01

Agree with your first statement, but surely Kenny has a few rivals for that title from yesteryear?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 23 May 08:08

Then let the debate begin and name some names.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sun 23 May 08:28

I’ll throw in Stanley Matthews, Tom Finney, Bobby Moore and Bobby Charlton




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: Parsweep  
Date:   Sun 23 May 08:43

Jimmy Johnstone ?

Bobvo
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 23 May 09:25

I never saw him play, but many consider Duncan Edwards was the most complete footballer from the British Isles.

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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 23 May 09:40

Quote:

wee eck, Sun 23 May 09:25

I never saw him play, but many consider Duncan Edwards was the most complete footballer from the British Isles.


By all accounts, Edwards had it all, although a different type of player to Best, but tragically, he died aged just 21, so he was unable to fulfil his undoubted potential. Best was primarily an attacking player, but he could have played anywhere - even in goal, which he sometimes did in training games. Denis Law said try as they might, they couldn't score against him. πŸ™‚

Edwards would have been a classy midfielder in the modern game. Not necessarily inferior to Best, but different.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Sun 23 May 09:43

Here was me thinking this thread would be about Tina Turner.
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 23 May 09:52

While it might be somewhat unfair in a team sport, in my opinion, a large part of the greatness of a footballer has to be their medal haul at the end of their career.
Take Zinedine Zidane as an example. One of the true greats and easily top five of the past twenty years or so. What if he had decided to represent his parents birth nation of Algeria rather than his own place of birth, France? He wouldn`t have played and scored in the final of two world cups but he`d still have been the supremely talented footballer that he was. What if instead of winning titles and glory with Juventus and Real Madrid he preferred to do a `Le Tissier` and play out his career at a provincial club. Maybe Bordeux or Cannes where he started. He would have still produced sublime moments or brilliance at those clubs and scored wonderful goals but none of them would be remembered like the one he scored at Hampden in 2003.

Eta, so that`s why Kenny gets my vote. Producer of great moments in big moments.



Post Edited (Sun 23 May 09:55)
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sun 23 May 09:55

Good article that, far to often with Best related articles they just skip past what an absolute **** he was.

Being good at kicking a bag of air around doesn't excuse his wrongs.
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: Sliema Par  
Date:   Sun 23 May 11:17

I thought this was about the Dunfermline Athletic book circa 1996.

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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: ianbd6  
Date:   Sun 23 May 12:14

A great article thanks for putting up the link GG Riva. There is a film premiere about Best on BT sport`s this week sometime. A very very talented guy whose off field performances were probably bigger news stories than his football ones. I have just read a book about Pat Partridge the former referee who said that Best was so talented he would put him up with Beckenbauer, Pele and Cruyff. You can`t get much better than that. There was a series a while ago called Football Maverick`s each one was absolutely brilliant with a football but totally flawed in normal life. TOWK mentions medal hauls as an indicator of a football great but up to Bosman the club called the shots. If a club refused to sell a player he was stuck with them until such time as the club no longer wanted them. A good example was Bobby Moore.

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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 23 May 13:26

In some ways I believe Moore proves my point. Part of the reason he is remembered as one of the great defenders, especially in England, is that he won the world cup. Had the 66 final went the other way, which it easily could have, would he be remembered as one of the games greats? Or look at this way. Things pan out differently at Italia 90 and Terry Butcher lifts the world cup aloft in Rome. Does that then elevate his status in the annals of the game? He would only have won an extra two ties and it wouldn`t have changed the talents or qualities he had as a player but I bet he`d now be remembered as one of the England`s greats.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 23 May 14:26

Where`s sammer - to settle this once and for all? 😊😊😊

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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 23 May 14:30

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 23 May 13:26

In some ways I believe Moore proves my point. Part of the reason he is remembered as one of the great defenders, especially in England, is that he won the world cup. Had the 66 final went the other way, which it easily could have, would he be remembered as one of the games greats? Or look at this way. Things pan out differently at Italia 90 and Terry Butcher lifts the world cup aloft in Rome. Does that then elevate his status in the annals of the game? He would only have won an extra two ties and it wouldn`t have changed the talents or qualities he had as a player but I bet he`d now be remembered as one of the England`s greats.


It's fair enough to use medals as an indicator, but it can't be the only yardstick. Lots of great players haven't won the WC. George Best didn't even play in one. Still a phenomenal player though - not his fault he played for a modest footballing country. Maybe if he'd thrown his lot in with England in 66? He was British, after all. πŸ™‚

I think it's significant that footballers who played the game at the highest levels were all in awe of Best's amazing abilities. Players who were legends themselves, like Law and Charlton had no hesitation in saying that George was the player everyone at OT looked up to. Kenny Dalglish aroused the same adulation among his team mates at Anfield. The two are very hard to separate. If Best had been a team mate of Dalglish at Liverpool, do you not think they'd have amassed even more trophies?

Dalglish, like Maradona, was almost impossible to shove off the ball. He put it down to having a big @rse. Best was an absolute wizard with the ball at his feet, who sometimes overdid it, playing to the gallery. He just shades it for me.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 23 May 15:04

I`m certainly not saying winning the world cup is the be all and end all. Plenty average players have world cup winners medals. I think a couple of league titles and a European Cup gives Best a decent tally in the medals regard. Best was, I think a more skilful footballer than Dalglish but I think Kenny had more about him as an all round player. He was more than the sum of his parts but I don`t think you could say the same about Best.

We all hate poverty, war, and injustice.
Unlike the rest of you squares.
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 23 May 15:45

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 23 May 15:04

I`m certainly not saying winning the world cup is the be all and end all. Plenty average players have world cup winners medals. I think a couple of league titles and a European Cup gives Best a decent tally in the medals regard. Best was, I think a more skilful footballer than Dalglish but I think Kenny had more about him as an all round player. He was more than the sum of his parts but I don`t think you could say the same about Best.


We won't fall out over it, but I'm not moving, TOWK. Not being either Scottish or Irish, I can claim to be completely impartial..... πŸ™‚

Eta. I wasn't claiming Best was the greatest, in any case - just that he was "the most extravagantly talented", a judgement you appear to agree with. You then waded in and moved the goal posts. 😞



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Sun 23 May 15:51)
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 23 May 19:35

Georgie B had decent career achievements - a European Cup and two top league championship titles.

However his playboy lifestyle and personal demons resulted in a reduced sell by date, whereas King Kenny looked after himself throughout his professional and his impressive track record speaks for itself.

Celtic - 200 + appearances

Scottish Division One/Premier Division: 1971–72, 1972–73, 1973–74, 1976–77
Scottish Cup: 1971–72, 1973–74, 1974–75, 1976–77
Scottish League Cup: 1974–75
Drybrough Cup: 1974–75
Glasgow Cup: 1974–75

Liverpool - 350+ appearances

Football League First Division: 1978–79, 1979–80, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1985–86
FA Cup: 1985–86
Football League Cup: 1980–81, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84
FA Charity Shield: 1977 (shared),1979,1980,1982, 1986 (shared)
European Cup: 1977–78, 1980–81, 1983–84
European Super Cup: 1977



Post Edited (Sun 23 May 19:36)
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: parfection  
Date:   Sun 23 May 19:56

I agree with TOWK. Kenny was a better team player and made more of the talent he had. Best had sublime skills, but Kenny brought more players into the game. This ability was lauded by none other than Bob Paisley himself who said Kenny was the best he ever worked with. That’ll do for me.

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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Sun 23 May 20:49

Whenever there is a debate about the best-ever British player, inevitably we tend to favour those in the modern era of widely-televised matches and media coverage.

Probably just before then, and at the edge of my memory, a candidate for one of the best ever would have been John Charles, one of the very few British players to have been successful in the UK and abroad (Juventus fans voted him their greatest-ever foreign player.)

He had a good haul of medals in Italy too, with 3 league championship and 2 cup-winners` medals. And amazingly, in 1958 he came close to a World Cup medal with Wales, who drew in the group stage with eventual finalists Sweden and only lost 1-0 to Brazil (Pele) in the quarter-final. Charles was injured for the Brazil match, and Wales manager Jimmy Murphy said that "with John Charles in the side we might have won".

Amazingly, in his whole career he never received a caution.

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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 23 May 21:17

John Charles occurred to me too, mainly because of his versatility. He was equally comfortable at centre-half or centre-forward yet averaged better than one goal every two games in his career.

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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Sun 23 May 21:32

George Best, with that terrific balance and control, was the most naturally talented UK player I have seen, but as others have pointed out his style was very individualistic. He hadn’t the option to throw in his lot for England in 1966, which may be just as well since Alf Ramsey might have viewed him as expendable as Jimmy Greaves. Better the all round consistency of Alan Ball rather than the mercurial flashes of George Best may have been Ramsey’s logic, especially when the going got tough. Best never lacked confidence in his ability, nor did he lack bravery in taking on hard defenders but there was a chink in his armour: if a game was going badly he became frustrated, something Leeds United were alert to and set to bring about. As Best’s career developed he seemed to lose interest when things weren’t going his way. He as good as admitted he didn’t want to play for Man Utd when the better players had to retire; the notion that he could perhaps help develop the next generation never seemed to be an option. He was no leader, his mentality remained that of the teenage prodigy.

Browsing through MOTD highlights from the 1960s it has surprised me how little influence Best had in Man Utd’s build up play. In many games he was peripheral and in others nearly anonymous. When he did run at defenders he lost the ball more than he delivered. The real heart of the team was the triangle of Crerand, Charlton and Law.

Despite that, there was always a buzz of anticipation when Best received the ball that no other player could match. And when he pulled off a piece of improvised genius you knew it would stick in the mind for all time. Most pro footballers have to cut out the playground tricks in order to make a career: George Best was so good he just kept on using them, which is why he was so special.

sammer
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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Sun 23 May 22:16

That`s a really good summation Sammer, what is clear is that his career and life was wrecked by alcohol. Saw him when at Hibs a few times, including At EEP, and even then was ludicrously gifted like I have never seen.

By all accounts modest and respectful, but the circus around him must have been impossible. He was effectively retired at 27, and when you look at the age he was when certain things happened health wise, showed a punishing level of addiction.

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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: Johan_Cruyff  
Date:   Mon 24 May 02:53

I watched a 8-10min video of gazza recently on social media and would argue he would be in top 5 naturally gifted players from the UK. If he had it together he could have done anything. .

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 Re: Simply the Best
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Mon 24 May 10:05

Best or Dalglish?... Best


Best or Gazza?... Best


Best or Beckham?... Beckham.

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