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Topic Originator: EEP
Date: Fri 30 Jul 21:40
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Topic Originator: DJAS
Date: Fri 30 Jul 21:48
Fife Elite is finishing up.
Predictor league winner 2012/2013
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Topic Originator: EEP
Date: Fri 30 Jul 21:51
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Topic Originator: LesliePar
Date: Fri 30 Jul 21:57
The 4 boys just signed you mention will probably end up in our new look academy. Fife Elite is being scrapped. Germans took one look at the model and wanted to change, we provide the majority of the funding and don’t see much benefit. Raith and Cowden can’t sustain the funding required so us pulling out means it will be disbanded.
Post Edited (Fri 30 Jul 22:05)
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Fri 30 Jul 22:02
Dunfermline are missing out ? What great local players have come from the local area in 20 years ,not including Scott Brown ?
Post Edited (Fri 30 Jul 22:02)
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Topic Originator: EEP
Date: Fri 30 Jul 22:07
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Topic Originator: DBA
Date: Fri 30 Jul 22:08
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Fri 30 Jul 22:02
Dunfermline are missing out ? What great local players have come from the local area in 20 years ,not including Scott Brown ?
I'm sure there's plenty. Lewis Stevenson at Hibs springs to mind.
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Topic Originator: EEP
Date: Fri 30 Jul 22:10
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 30 Jul 22:13
The Ross McArthur video suggests we're leaving the Fife Elite setup and will have our own academy for next season.
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Topic Originator: EEP
Date: Fri 30 Jul 22:26
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 30 Jul 22:39
I don't know a thing about coaching but the plans McArthur mentions sound exciting and exactly what we need. If we want to be appealing to players then we need a good training facility. If we want to build a solid team we also need a good academy attracting the best talent and hopefully progressing them through the ranks.
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Fri 30 Jul 22:41
So to my earlier post ,in twenty years we missed out on one Hibs player .
Meanwhile Fife clubs have wasted close on 1 million pounds
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Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks
Date: Sat 31 Jul 07:42
There’s literally hundreds of kids attending ffpa every week, at least 20 at each group anyway. From there Fife Elite will pick them up.
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Topic Originator: EEP
Date: Sat 31 Jul 08:42
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Sat 31 Jul 09:08
Quote:
EEP, Sat 31 Jul 08:42
What’s the FFPA?
Fife Football Performance Academy.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sat 31 Jul 09:18
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Fri 30 Jul 22:41
So to my earlier post ,in twenty years we missed out on one Hibs player .
Meanwhile Fife clubs have wasted close on 1 million pounds
Callum Smith's younger brother, Scotland youth player and captain, on Heart's books.
Young goalkeeper from L/gelly just signed Pro forms with Hearts.
Dunfermline scouts were as rare as dinosaurs teeth when my son was playing mid nineties.
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Sat 31 Jul 09:29
Quote:
Westies squint kicks, Sat 31 Jul 07:42
There’s literally hundreds of kids attending ffpa every week, at least 20 at each group anyway. From there Fife Elite will pick them up.
Only 240. Across 10 or 11 age groups.
Hardly any players at all when you look at it that way.
My sons club have more players.
There are two players who are outstanding for his team, a striker and a keeper, who I'm certain can easily become professionals.
The only scout to attend any of their games was a Morton one, he asked if these two lads and my son could go to a trial for Morton. The coaches wouldn't let them go as they had a friendly game the same day as the trial.
To say I was pissed off is an understatement.
Since that my son has become very disillusioned and is looking for a new team but I think he actually feels like stopping playing altogether. The striker did quit and concentrated on athletics for a season but has now started back at football.
Players are going to be missed all across Scotland cause clubs are not sending scouts to youth games, when they do spot talent coaches are deciding if these kids can go for a trial, it should not be their choice but the parents.
Maybe clubs can't afford to hire scouts so maybe there should be some sort of mechanism where youth teams can put forward their best players to attend trials at clubs.
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Topic Originator: Angus_W
Date: Sat 31 Jul 09:48
Hopefully things are going to change when the new academy comes online.
The west of Fife always has & always will be a nursery for young footballing talent. We now have the planned facilities & investment to take advantage of this.
The future is looking good.
“.........it ain’t over till the Pars score!”
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Topic Originator: 1985Par
Date: Sat 31 Jul 10:48
We get unduly excited with youth academies and the prospective conveyor belt of talent that they consistently fail to deliver. We live in a small country and the best players will always gravitate towards glasgow, edinburgh, aberdeen and maybe dundee united. The Calum McGregors and Kieran Tierneys of this world are not going to be playing for ours or Falkirks or St Mirrens youth academy. I have seen first hand youth players who i`ve been adamant will play for scotland ending up warming the bench at a highland league club. When the actual impact of youth academies is analysed there is nothing in it for most clubs, but it sounds nice.
I`d much rather see Boys Clubs empowered and see them work with the pro teams. Top players could still be identified and nurtured - there is a snobbery within the game, an impression that a young player can only reach their potential if they`re at a youth academy from the age of 8. Pro clubs should get involved when prospective talent turns 16/17.
Post Edited (Sat 31 Jul 10:53)
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Sat 31 Jul 11:10
SadIndieFreaks story about the coaches stopping the kids going on trial is shocking, you would think any coach worth his salt at that level would delighted to say "I've had 3 kids on trial at Morton".
Our youth teams previously haven't been too successful at getting players through to be established first team here although, I suppose if we can produce good squad players like Shaun Byrne, Ross Millen, Lewis Spence, Kevin McHattie that could be seen as success.
When you see the conveyer belt of talent that goes through Hutchison Vale BC, it puts most other professional youth academy's in the shade. We need to get that guy involved, how does he do it?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47962601
I think what I would like to see is Stevie Crawford involved in this, this is an area he excels in
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sat 31 Jul 11:17
Just reading about Chris Hamilton out on loan to Arbroath from Hearts, signed from Crossgates Primrose at age 8yrs old!
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Topic Originator: allparone
Date: Sat 31 Jul 11:49
Coaches not letting players go to trials should be reported. It’s been going on for years and is normally done by coaches who are more interested in personal glory rather than a kids development. Sad sad people.
I think that Kids outside the Edinburgh and Glasgow areas are at a bit of a disadvantage due to the fact that the best coaches and development centres are quite far away from them. The teams with the most money attract the best coaches and pay for the better facilities so for players in Fife and further afield it means a lot of travelling nearly every day of the week in order to get the best chance of development. Going Pro Youth takes a huge commitment from parents as well as kids and I wonder how many players have been lost because their parents, understandably were unable to get them to one of these centres for 5 o’clock every weeknight.
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Topic Originator: EEP
Date: Sat 31 Jul 23:25
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Topic Originator: Rigger Al
Date: Sun 1 Aug 01:27
Do we still have the likes of
Leven Royals
Hill o beath swifts
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Topic Originator: FRED1981
Date: Sun 1 Aug 06:16
I was co-founder and manager of the swift’s from 73 until 83 ,in these days there were only 8 teams in Fife at under 14 level .Leven royals and Glenrothes strollers were our biggest rivals .Even in these days I cannot remember a Dunfermline scout being at our games .The only 2 scouts that were regular were Andy Young from lochgelly for Leeds Utd and Alastair Mcilroy from Leven who was with Bolton .In fact we won the Scottish juvenile cup in 81 at under 14 level and the only two teams represented were The management team from Dundee and scouts from Dundee Utd .Two of that team signed for Utd and one for Forfar another fact from the cup winning team was Ian Livingstone the chief constable of Scotland played in midfield for me .The swift’s had two under age teams 2 years apart from each other .The main signings from the Swift’s to go senior we’re Craig Robertson for Hearts and Gordon Durie to East Fife also Malpas who played for Leven Royals went to Dundee Utd .Two or three others signed for Dunfermline Ian Heddle ,Rowan Hamilton, Russel Dunlop quite a few went on to play Junior so nothing much has changed in all this time.
F muller
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sun 1 Aug 08:17
Gordon went to east Fife from inverkeithing.
Played against or with all those guys, Fred
Jim Baxter was my best man. Neil Brand was a cracking wee player
Alistair McIlroy scouted me.
It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Sun 01 Aug 08:18)
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Topic Originator: FRED1981
Date: Sun 1 Aug 14:43
It was laughable Duries father went to watch him play for the swift’s and support him ,then he would come to watch his older son campbell playing for inverkeithing against my swift’s team and call us for everything and he was really vocal.
F muller
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Sun 1 Aug 15:31
Its important to give this the chance it deserves. This is more than just about developing young players both physically and academically. It is about development in a wider context in a systemic way to connect and engage with the local community.
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Topic Originator: back oh the net
Date: Sun 1 Aug 16:38
Quote:
Rigger Al, Sun 01 Aug 01:27
Do we still have the likes of
Leven Royals
Hill o beath swifts
Leven royals became Norton house (might be wrong) then turned amateur and sadly folded
Come on ye pars ⚽️
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Topic Originator: Grant
Date: Sun 1 Aug 17:14
When I was going through there was United and Livingston, however Alloa probably had the most scouts at games.
At least fife elite you can point to Bowie as someone who came through and was sold on for decent cash.
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Mon 2 Aug 09:53
Probably couple of things at play in terms of academy and Fife Elite. New owners looking to change club infrastructure etc but also the ending of Funding for "Project Brave" https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/performance/performance-strategy/
centralised or "pooled" performance academy across all Fife teams and back to ondividual clubs to fund to maintain.
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Topic Originator: Bigfoot
Date: Mon 2 Aug 13:35
Interesting debate regarding teams picking up players down at Pitreavie.
I used to coach a couple of kids teams (2010 to 2015ish) and Hearts were infamous for "sweeping" up kids at Pitreavie. Kids who showed a bit of skill would move to (say Hearts) only to be dumped (sometimes a few weeks later for not cutting it). A lot of the picking was done based on the physical/skills aspect rather than awareness.
At that age (ie pre-high school) kids are still maturing both physically and mentally. Further, at that kids should be looking to develop their skills through fun and playing without fear.
I walked out on the coaching at a particular club because their emphasis was on winning rather than development.
Boys were being picked week in week out in particular positions, rather than rotating them.
So a goalscorer was always picked as the striker - he had no idea how to defend, was lazy and criticised the defender when goals were lost. Likewise a fast left-footed player, who was brilliant as a left winger, was never picked as right back.
Now I appreciate winning is important but it shouldn`t be the fundamental factor. Selecting prima donna`s to play in specific positions means they forego work ethic, playing with both feet, spatial awareness and understanding the roles within a team.
I would hazard a guess that the teams that let the youngsters play without fear to try things and not to worry about losing have developed more well-rounded and adjusted individuals (who I suspect are better players because of that) then those who play to win and keep the scores etc.
I would also suggest that parents need to have a look at themselves - pushing for wee Johnny to play as goalie or stricker or whaterver and complaining about decsions etc. On numerous occasions I had to speak to a parent complaining because a kid did a foul shy, or something equally benign.
So fecking what.... let them play. Putting pressure on kids not too lose means they are unlikely to try things.
I noted someone was fuming at the coach not allowing their kid to go to a senior club. From my perspective that coach should be applauded!
I also applaud Dunfermline for not sending down scouts to pick up kids.
RANT OVER
Jesus saves, but Kirk nets rebound
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Topic Originator: Bigfoot
Date: Mon 2 Aug 13:37
1985 Par - you have echoed my sentiments far more eloquently that I could ever do.
Jesus saves, but Kirk nets rebound
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Mon 2 Aug 13:50
Quote:
Bigfoot, Mon 2 Aug 13:35
I noted someone was fuming at the coach not allowing their kid to go to a senior club. From my perspective that coach should be applauded!
Yeah my son who was showing great potential has now all but given up football because of it but round of applause to that coach.
He didn't let them go cause the team had a friendly that day. Not for some greater plan in their development.
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Topic Originator: Polt
Date: Tue 3 Aug 00:27
Having read a few of the comments above. I remember wondering why there was never scouts at the school leagues. One player I remember was Blair Moffat for Cowdenbeath. Pounded us a new rear opening. Fortunately he did play professional. I don`t know who was scout down in East Lothian but a fair few players from Dunbar area have played youth for Dunfermline, the few that went to Hutchison Vale went onto Dundee United youths which had a fantastic reputation back then.
The whole game is different now compared to before. Training right through to basics. I think this system will be different for us with input from the German aspect as well. Using past knowledge of where we went wrong and where other countries/teams have it right. Within the budget restraints. I liked the comment above about Stevie Crawford being involved as i also believe that is where his best skills are and would be good with kids development, mild mannered as well which will be beneficial.
If we get the right network, the right coaches and management of the youth academy then I could see us doing well from it.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 3 Aug 08:33
The Edinburgh clubs had a continuous stream of players from Salveson, Hutchison Vale and Tynecastle Boys Club, any Fife boys had to join one of them to be considered.
That was back in the 80s/90s, even Cowdenbeath Youth trained at Craigmillar, they had that many Edinburgh players.
Livingston were taking coach loads across the bridge due to Mcarthur (ex Pars) scouting the area in the late 90s.
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Topic Originator: Pokitren
Date: Sat 20 May 13:27
Hi mate, Blair Moffat here, had to send a message, came across this post in a Google search and I had to find out when we played against each other? Going back a lot of years
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Mon 22 May 12:31
Looking at the scouting system logically, it strikes me as being very systematic rather than systemic.
One scout, one opinion, one game for the most part, one moment in time, perhaps looking for one outcome. As a system it is not very purposeful.
A youth academy set up as a purposeful system should permit, multiple coaching perspectives, evaluation coaching and development over many games, player good and bad days with learning from the bad days, possibility of multiple outcomes in terms of development, playing position, fitness, natural progression etc.
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Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie
Date: Mon 22 May 13:58
Seen the `win at all costs` mentality through my own eyes with a certain team through my way.
Cherry picking boys` at the very first stage of Fun Fours at 5/6 years of age and only taking ones of certain ability, filling their heads full of mince and then they get dropped like a hot potato when someone better comes along. Beating teams by cricket scores and actively thinking that it somehow benefits anyone at that age whilst the parents are all under the same spell.....it is utterly toxic.
Scouts are there more often than you think, just generally will only identify themselves to the coach out of common courtesy and also to stop any undue pressure on boys in question and likewise to keep a distance / aynonimity from parents due to their behaviour.
---------------------------------------------------------------
"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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