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 German directors/investors
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 5 Aug 23:11

They are all going to be in attendance at Saturday`s match apparently.

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: PARSpars  
Date:   Thu 5 Aug 23:22

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 5 Aug 23:11

They are all going to be in attendance at Saturday`s match apparently.


was surprised no one had mentioned it before now
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 00:01

Might be a good time to get rid of the memorial to David Ferguson Hunter VC and The Seven Heroes of Moeuvres, before our German friends arrive. While I agree that there should be a tribute somewhere, perhaps in his home village of Kingseat, I don't really see the need for it at East End Park. The link to the club is tenuous.
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 00:07

I'll hazard a guess that our German investors will be made well aware of its significance and will give it the respect it deserves like normal human beings

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: parfection  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 06:14

The war memorial at East End is, like other sites of remembrance, not a wrong that requires to be hidden or hushed up. The fact that our country was at war with Germany is wholly irrelevant. War memorials are intended to honour men and women who have died in conflict, they are not instances of jingoistic flag waving. Germans have war memorials too - in the very centre of Hamburg where our new investors are based, stands one of the tallest war memorials I’ve ever seen - it is intended to honour the fallen of both World Wars. The German investors will, I’m certain, take no offence whatever at the small bench outside our stadium. Any removal of the same would meet with very deep resentment - I don’t want to turn this into another, frankly rather tiresome debate, about the justification for statues, but let’s all accept that memorials honouring war dead are ubiquitous and for the right reasons.

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: Leamington_sPAR  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 07:49

Quote:

red-star-par, Fri 06 Aug 00:01

Might be a good time to get rid of the memorial to David Ferguson Hunter VC and The Seven Heroes of Moeuvres, before our German friends arrive. While I agree that there should be a tribute somewhere, perhaps in his home village of Kingseat, I don't really see the need for it at East End Park. The link to the club is tenuous.


Thank you for the suggestion!!!!!
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 08:01

Your talents are wasted on here RSP.
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 08:11

Quote:

red-star-par, Fri 6 Aug 00:01

Might be a good time to get rid of the memorial to David Ferguson Hunter VC and The Seven Heroes of Moeuvres, before our German friends arrive. While I agree that there should be a tribute somewhere, perhaps in his home village of Kingseat, I don't really see the need for it at East End Park. The link to the club is tenuous.


Why, just why?

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: Angus_W  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 08:16

Team should run out to “Wunderbar! - Tenpole Tudor”.

“.........your on mute Jordan” 😀
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 08:52

Quote:

red-star-par, Fri 06 Aug 00:01

Might be a good time to get rid of the memorial to David Ferguson Hunter VC and The Seven Heroes of Moeuvres, before our German friends arrive. While I agree that there should be a tribute somewhere, perhaps in his home village of Kingseat, I don't really see the need for it at East End Park. The link to the club is tenuous.


Lucky you are here to decide what they should be offended by 👍🏼


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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 09:40

Im pretty sure its a wind up. I dont agree with him much but he isnt that thick. He isnt thick at all actually, most of his posts have some thought behind them, but that is just too stupid not to be a windup.

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 09:48

Topic Originator: Angus_W
Date: Fri 6 Aug 08:16

Team should run out to “Wunderbar! - Tenpole Tudor”.


Would be the perfect game to have….NO MUSIC…. Certainly after a goal… assuming we score of course 🤭

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: AlterPar  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 11:01

Parfection absolutely nailed it tbh. Hopefully they are treated to a healthy win and a warm reception.
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 11:36

"Might be a good time to get rid of the memorial to David Ferguson Hunter VC and The Seven Heroes of Moeuvres, before our German friends arrive. While I agree that there should be a tribute somewhere, perhaps in his home village of Kingseat, I don`t really see the need for it at East End Park. The link to the club is tenuous."

Don`t mention the war Basil ?

Can`t see our German investors being offended tbh.

That aside, what exactly is his connection to the club ?

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: Big T Par  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 13:43

Quote:

Angus_W, Fri 6 Aug 08:16

Team should run out to “Wunderbar! - Tenpole Tudor”.


Die Toten Hosen's version, with Ed singing, is even better and more German 😉

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: steaua  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 17:37

Looking forward to the game tomorrow.



Post Edited (Fri 06 Aug 19:50)
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: Super Johnnie  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 19:15

"German directors/investors"
Aren`t we being a bit coy here?
Surely a more accurate term is German OWNERS...

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: yorkiepar  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 19:39

I`m reading - but not quite believing - some of the posts on this thread. Quite simply some of the people posting are an embarrassment to the Club and its supporters. Get a grip folks. We`re now living in the 21st century.

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: twin par  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 21:40

Cannot believe some of the ignorant posts on here.Move on and progress, I am sure, the new guys will respect, and acknowledge our memorial, to the fallen .

Post Edited (Fri 06 Aug 21:43)
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Fri 6 Aug 22:10

Quote:

twin par, Fri 6 Aug 21:40

Cannot believe some of the ignorant posts on here.Move on and progress, I am sure, the new guys will respect, and acknowledge our memorial, to the fallen .


I'm sure the post was a wind up. Having lived in Germany for 17 years, no offence would be taken. Indeed, German's are well aware of history.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 07:14

Shakes heid in disbelief, why would the Germans possibly object to the memorial to a local war hero and VC winner?

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: brian  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 07:31

indeed, 1970par,
some of the things on here really take the biscuit and certainly a poor show from that poster.

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 07:47

Folks, surely you can see it's a wind up ?

Red Star's gonna need a bigger net at this rate 🤦
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: Parsweep  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 07:54

Quote:

MikeyLeonard, Sat 7 Aug 07:47

Folks, surely you can see it's a wind up ?

Red Star's gonna need a bigger net at this rate 🤦


Doesn't read like it was meant to be a wind up , and even if it was ,
I'm not sure it's very bright to try and stir folk about such a sensitive subject .

Bobvo
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: SAP PAR  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 09:03

It’s not a wind up. Look back to the original post when the unveiling of this memorial was being discussed and his views are quite clear.
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 09:19

What odds would the bookies give for a small section of the support singing anti German songs?

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 09:23

Clear trolling but not very clever. 2/10
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 10:04

I've got to admit, quite often I am on the wind up, but this is far too serious to joke about. I do apologise if my opinion on this differs from other people and do understand that people might disagree with it, and be annoyed as it is an emotive subject.
I have read a lot about The Seven Heroes of Moeuvres and David Ferguson Hunter and its a tale of tremendous bravery and unbelievable heroism. I mean no disrespect when I say the memorial shouldn't be at East End Park, as it is clear he was a man who should be held in the highest regard. I do believe that there should be a memorial to him, but I don't believe that should be at the main stand at East End Park. It's more common for this type of thing to be situated in the soldiers home village.
The main reason I think it shouldn't be there is because he didn't actually have anything to do with the club, other than being a fan, and having a grandson on the board who seemed to be the main player in making this happen.
Dunfermline Athletic did have players who served in the First World War, David Hardie, Jock Philp, James Gray, David Izatt, and Douglas Morgan. David Izatt and Dunfermline Athletic Committee Member Jimmy Morton were killed at the battle of The Somme and left back Douglas Morgan also perished. Inside-Left James Gray died in Flanders. Goalkeeper Pat Savage survived service throughout the war which included taking part in The Somme. John Frail, outside right, killed in action. Wull Strang, left back, who died at Rouen. Harry Adam, possibly the first overseas player to represent The Pars, who died in Palestine. If we are going to have a memorial at the ground, why is there not a fitting memorial to those individual Dunfermline Athletic players at the ground?

Post Edited (Sat 07 Aug 10:04)
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 10:04

I don`t really care where our owners come from, we are a Scottish club in fact we are a Fife club and nothing will dilute that for me.

The owners are on trial and if they deliver the fans will be happy if not the fans will turn.

The owners have bought my club, I have not just started to support their club, the club will always belong to the fans.

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: RMGpar  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 10:43

Absolute car crash of a thread as per on .net. A thread that was started to welcome/announce that our new owners would be in attendance for our first league game at home.

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 10:52

Great post rsp. Well explained.
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: Athletico  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 10:52

Your initial post RSP is an utter disgrace. 10 German Bombers levels of idiocy.

And who are you to decide where a family wants a memorial placed?

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 10:56

If you have reservations about the siting of the memorial, red-star--par, why raise them on a thread about our German directors/investors/owners? The memorial has been there for some time. Did you raise objections when it was first mooted?

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 11:00

Quote:

Athletico, Sat 7 Aug 10:52

Your initial post RSP is an utter disgrace. 10 German Bombers levels of idiocy.

And who are you to decide where a family wants a memorial placed?


"10 German Bombers level of idiocy" that's a classy turn of phrase
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 11:05

Christ, looks like I ended up in the net masel 😕
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: The Roy Barry Fan Club  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 11:40

There seems to be a good number of assumptions being made by Red-Star-Par (RSP), who I know to be absolutely sincere on this point, and I thought it might be helpful to clarify where I can.

RSP suggests that this "might be a good time to get rid of the memorial to David Ferguson Hunter VC and The Seven Heroes of Moeuvres, before our German friends arrive. While I agree that there should be a tribute somewhere, perhaps in his home village of Kingseat, I don`t really see the need for it at East End Park. The link to the club is tenuous."

He wonders why there is no war memorial at the ground, and further quotes some of the people who fought and died in the First World War. This research seems very familiar to me as I am the author of the Programme article and the entries on the Dunfermline Athletic Heritage Trust Facebook page on this subject. Those articles were based on the very extensive research of Gordon Baird on the subject, who in my view is the expert on the history of the Club in this period. The point made in those articles is that Dunfermline Athletic never had a war memorial (to the best of my knowledge) because it was, and still is, very difficult to be certain that all the names are correctly placed upon it. Scores of players came and went during the First World War -- some only playing one or two games before being transferred to another part of the country or direct to the Western Front. The Scottish Leagues were suspended and Dunfermline played in a number of ad-hoc leagues and cups. For example, RSP lists David Halliday who was killed in the war, but whom Gordon has not been able to prove actually signed for the Athletic. Similarly, George Millar dies in the war and was associated with the Club, but there is no evidence yet seen by me that he signed formally. In that context, I have concluded that the Committee of the Club after 1918 were probably right not to risk an inaccurate war memorial.

RSP`s main assertion is: "The main reason I think it shouldn`t be there is because he didn`t actually have anything to do with the club, other than being a fan, and having a grandson on the board who seemed to be the main player in making this happen." This fails to understand the position which gave rise to the Hunter memorial at the ground, which Stanza and I have explained several times in the past. The position is that in early 2014, the UK government decided to give a Victoria Cross paving slab for each of the WWI Victoria Cross winners. The government press release and relevant Statutory Instrument makes it clear that it is for the family of the Victoria Cross holder, in conjunction with the relevant local authority, to designate a suitable spot in that local authority for the paving slab to be laid. Ideally it was to be one of meaning to that person in the opinion of his/her family.

Consequently, it is for the family and not for anyone else to suggest a suitable site and seek the agreement of the local Council. I note that RSP takes it upon himself to suggest Kingseat, presumably because David Hunter was born there and worked in the Dean Colliery, Kingseat, in 1914? However by September 1918 when the action took place at Moeuvres in France, David Hunter`s family home was Forth Street in Dunfermline. After the war, David Hunter became a postman and worked both in Dunfermline and in the country areas to the west of the town. He had a number of homes, and his last house was in one of the streets off Townhill Road. The Hunter family decided that in common with many working men of the age that he lived for his fortnightly attendance at East End Park. He stood for sixty years on the same spot, and in later years this was with his sons and grandsons, including both Davie Hunter , a much respected coach at the Club for many years, and Ian Hunter, a director of the football club in recent years (and who has actually been heavily involved in the contractual detail of securing the German investment ). However the Hunter family is a couple of dozen strong and it is quite wrong of RSP to personalise matters.

Accordingly the Hunter family approached the Board of Pars United (East End Park) Ltd, who continue to own the ground, along with the Board of Dunfermline Athletic. They were happy to agree to this request, as were Fife Council. A volunteer built the podium on which the paving slab is placed. This contains a time capsule from local school children and also bricks sent by the Maire of Moeuvres in France. The information board was designed and paid by the Heritage Trust, whilst the granite bench was donated by the Co-op Funeralcare. Personally I am proud to have a VC winner associated with the Club, even if he was only ever a supporter. Ultimately it is not for me or anyone else to decide. It is a matter for the Hunter family. I am glad however that they made the choice that they did.

Post Edited (Sat 07 Aug 18:21)
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 12:07

If the "other forum" had an app, this forum would be in trouble.
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 12:19

Not really Jake, because all the idiots on here are free to post on other forums

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 12:29

TRBFC- interesting read, thanks for posting

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 12:54

Perfectly explained 👏👏👍👍

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"

Post Edited (Sat 07 Aug 12:55)
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 12:55

Enjoyed that TRBFC, really informative post, thank you.
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 13:06

Quote:

red-star-par, Sat 7 Aug 10:04

I've got to admit, quite often I am on the wind up, but this is far too serious to joke about. I do apologise if my opinion on this differs from other people and do understand that people might disagree with it, and be annoyed as it is an emotive subject.
I have read a lot about The Seven Heroes of Moeuvres and David Ferguson Hunter and its a tale of tremendous bravery and unbelievable heroism. I mean no disrespect when I say the memorial shouldn't be at East End Park, as it is clear he was a man who should be held in the highest regard. I do believe that there should be a memorial to him, but I don't believe that should be at the main stand at East End Park. It's more common for this type of thing to be situated in the soldiers home village.
The main reason I think it shouldn't be there is because he didn't actually have anything to do with the club, other than being a fan, and having a grandson on the board who seemed to be the main player in making this happen.
Dunfermline Athletic did have players who served in the First World War, David Hardie, Jock Philp, James Gray, David Izatt, and Douglas Morgan. David Izatt and Dunfermline Athletic Committee Member Jimmy Morton were killed at the battle of The Somme and left back Douglas Morgan also perished. Inside-Left James Gray died in Flanders. Goalkeeper Pat Savage survived service throughout the war which included taking part in The Somme. John Frail, outside right, killed in action. Wull Strang, left back, who died at Rouen. Harry Adam, possibly the first overseas player to represent The Pars, who died in Palestine. If we are going to have a memorial at the ground, why is there not a fitting memorial to those individual Dunfermline Athletic players at the ground?


Now if you had just posted that rather than your original post, i don't think anyone would have disagreed.

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: cumbrian par  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 14:01

PARrot wrote:

>
Quote:

red-star-par, Sat 7 Aug 10:04
>
> I've got to admit, quite often I am on the wind up, but
> this is far too serious to joke about. I do apologise if my
> opinion on this differs from other people and do understand
> that people might disagree with it, and be annoyed as it is an
> emotive subject.
> I have read a lot about The Seven Heroes of Moeuvres and David
> Ferguson Hunter and its a tale of tremendous bravery and
> unbelievable heroism. I mean no disrespect when I say the
> memorial shouldn't be at East End Park, as it is clear he
> was a man who should be held in the highest regard. I do
> believe that there should be a memorial to him, but I don't
> believe that should be at the main stand at East End Park.
> It's more common for this type of thing to be situated in
> the soldiers home village.
> The main reason I think it shouldn't be there is because he
> didn't actually have anything to do with the club, other
> than being a fan, and having a grandson on the board who seemed
> to be the main player in making this happen.
> Dunfermline Athletic did have players who served in the First
> World War, David Hardie, Jock Philp, James Gray, David Izatt,
> and Douglas Morgan. David Izatt and Dunfermline Athletic
> Committee Member Jimmy Morton were killed at the battle of The
> Somme and left back Douglas Morgan also perished. Inside-Left
> James Gray died in Flanders. Goalkeeper Pat Savage survived
> service throughout the war which included taking part in The
> Somme. John Frail, outside right, killed in action. Wull
> Strang, left back, who died at Rouen. Harry Adam, possibly the
> first overseas player to represent The Pars, who died in
> Palestine. If we are going to have a memorial at the ground,
> why is there not a fitting memorial to those individual
> Dunfermline Athletic players at the ground?

>
> Now if you had just posted that rather than your original post,
> i don't think anyone would have disagreed.
>
>

If RSP HAD posted that in the first place, it still would’ve had no relevance to the thread title.

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 14:18

I know the title of the thread is an easy shorthand way of referring to the new directors, and I have used it myself - most of us don`t know them personally, so it`s understandable. However, IMO we need to start referring to them as individuals or as owners or as directors etc - their nationality is irrelevant and constantly referring to it perhaps contributes to threads like this being diverted onto a different topic.

On the issue raised by RSP (and his second post is a much more reasonable approach to it), the only thing I can add to TRBFC`s excellent post is that (along with TRBFC, 1970Par and several other Pars fans) I have been several times to Contalmaison in France, to remember on 1 July the achievements and sacrifices in 1916 of the men of McCrae`s Battalion (16th Royal Scots).

We travel at our own expense, but the wreaths we lay are in the name of Dunfermline Athletic FC, since many West Fife men, quite possibly DAFC supporters, served in the battalion - with several dying in the Battle of the Somme, including two DAFC players (Davie Izatt & Jimmy Morton.)

We are regularly joined at the annual commemoration service by a small German contingent, who lay their own wreath, an example of which is shown below. The event is never triumphalist, and focuses on the sacrifice and futility of war, along with the need for reconciliation. I have every confidence that our new directors will adopt that same approach as we go forward together.


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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 15:23

Could they bring some players with them next time maybe

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 19:40

Thank you for the contributions by Stanza, and The Roy Barry Fan Club, very interesting information provided there on which I will base further research. I have also been to Ypres, and several fields in Flanders and it is a very sobering experience. Seeing my own great grandfather's final resting place in a field in Belgium was difficult, especially when at the time I was 16 and he was forever 17. A crazy situation. Reading back on my initial post, I should have taken a bit more care of it, but I do stand by the sentiment of the second post. Certainly Mr Hunter was a great man
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 21:03

Thank you for that last post, RSP. I completely understand your sentiments and the feelings you must have had standing at your great-grandfather`s grave.

I defy anyone to visit any of the cemeteries or memorials on the Western Front to feel differently and it`s particularly acute for youngsters to see the ages of some of those soldiers.

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 21:12

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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 21:51

I remember being on a Leger tour to the Normandy beaches. It was very sad seeing the young ages of the participants from both sides. My grandfather was killed in Mesopotamia defending it from the Turkish hoards. My mum was 2 so she could not remember anything about. I wouldn't think that our clubs owners would think badly about the seat.

matt forsyth
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 Re: German directors/investors
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 22:01

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