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 Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: pacifist  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 19:59

First game in and the boos were raining down after the first goal. Yeah, tough watch. But this could easily have been the outcome from the cup game. The 4-2 was a travesty. Partick could have been 3-0 up after 20 mins. They just missed opportunity after opportunity. And we won a game we probably didn`t deserve to. Maybe we`ve kidded ourselves as to our quality but it`s too early to say. But we were happy to accept that victory.

Today - Players know when they aren`t performing. They don`t need their own support getting on their back on the first league game of the season. Potentially it can make things worse. When they next come out at EEP are they likely to be confident regarding the crowd or reluctant to try something different with no guarantee of success? They haven`t been in front of a crowd for a while and it`s all about confidence.

I`ve always believed, maybe naively, that a support is there to make a difference if things aren`t going well.

Have we ever made that difference in recent years?

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 20:11

Maybe you could tell us what specific actions you took today to make a difference?

I thought the team were pretty well supported today on the whole, especially so when considering how dreadful it was.

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 20:11

To be fair the only booing that I heard in first half was at half time. I left with about 5 minutes to go at full time. I can only assume that there were a few booing at full time. Unless things improve I would imagine that 1. More people will vent their frustrations and 2. Those without season tickets will stop coming.

matt forsyth
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 20:15

Quote:

eastendalloapar, Sat 7 Aug 20:11

To be fair the only booing that I heard in first half was at half time. I left with about 5 minutes to go at full time. I can only assume that there were a few booing at full time. Unless things improve I would imagine that 1. More people will vent their frustrations and 2. Those without season tickets will stop coming.


I didn't hear much booing if any at full time. I was out the ground before the players got down towards the Norrie tho.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 20:16

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: cfad  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 20:34

Wasn’t as bad as usual today, maybe because only 2000 in the ground and maybe boos are muffled in some face masks 😷 But, I have said before, many of our fan base are pretty poor ‘fans’, too quick to get on the players backs and criticise verbally and boo. We all get frustrated and want to see goals and wins but we are not Barcelona and some seem to forget that with expectations overly high. If you choose to go to EEP for every home game like I do, you must know by now what to expect? Every team have an overly negative group of supporters, but we must be up there with the worst. All we can do to influence a game is try to impact the mood and motivation of the players by how we react. Not blind optimism, just a fact.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: xgatesmafia  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 20:50

You must be mental if you think that our support had ANYTHING to do with that today . Seriously you should be in an asylum .

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: cfad  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 20:52

Quote:

xgatesmafia, Sat 07 Aug 20:50

You must be mental if you think that our support had ANYTHING to do with that today . Seriously you should be in an asylum .


Don’t think that was the point the OP was making. Clearly it was the team that lost us the game today. The point was broader, and not just about today
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 20:55

Quote:

pacifist, Sat 7 Aug 19:59

First game in and the boos were raining down after the first goal. Yeah, tough watch. But this could easily have been the outcome from the cup game. The 4-2 was a travesty. Partick could have been 3-0 up after 20 mins. They just missed opportunity after opportunity. And we won a game we probably didn`t deserve to. Maybe we`ve kidded ourselves as to our quality but it`s too early to say. But we were happy to accept that victory.

Today - Players know when they aren`t performing. They don`t need their own support getting on their back on the first league game of the season. Potentially it can make things worse. When they next come out at EEP are they likely to be confident regarding the crowd or reluctant to try something different with no guarantee of success? They haven`t been in front of a crowd for a while and it`s all about confidence.

I`ve always believed, maybe naively, that a support is there to make a difference if things aren`t going well.

Have we ever made that difference in recent years?


If the defence and goalie could header a corner.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Angus_W  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 21:18

IMO there was just a stunned silence at the end.

We all watched the league cup games & the Morton game was just a blip - today was launch day.

I didn’t think anyone was prepared for such a poor performance.

“.........your on mute Jordan” 😀
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Parsweep  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 21:26

cfad, it's a two way street .
What I saw in that 1st half today was a disgrace .
Don't think any of our lot broke sweat .
I pay good money , that's hard earned for my ST , and I think we deserve max effort from the players .
I certainly didn't boo but had a right good moan at some of the inept performances on show .
If you were cheering anything in that 1st half you really must be deluded .

Bobvo
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: cfad  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 21:30

Quote:

Parsweep, Sat 07 Aug 21:26

cfad, it's a two way street .
What I saw in that 1st half today was a disgrace .
Don't think any of our lot broke sweat .
I pay good money , that's hard earned for my ST , and I think we deserve max effort from the players .
I certainly didn't boo but had a right good moan at some of the inept performances on show .
If you were cheering anything in that 1st half you really must be deluded .


Of course I had nothing to cheer in the first half, it was pitiful. I didn’t boo however, although some around me did in the first home league game of the season. That’s what’s poor.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 21:59

Problem we had is we have some "supporters" who couldn't wait to get into PG. "Go back to alloa" inside half an hour is a perfect example of some of the nuggets that apparently support our club.
Yes today was terrible but shouting for the managers head after 2 games is stupidity. Let's not forget Partick will be spending a fair bit of money this year.
I don't think we are better without though as Crawfords team were just clueless without fans as they would be with fans imo.

c'mon the pars

Post Edited (Sat 07 Aug 22:01)
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Angus_W  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 22:01

Maybe another way to look at it………


Keep playing like that & you won’t need to worry about a home crowds reaction!

“.........your on mute Jordan” 😀
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: king lad  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 23:31

I personally wouldn't boo the players but can totally understand people doing it at HT. For the opening home league game of the season that was an utter thrashing, thistle could've and probably should've won that game by 5 goals.

Grant has to take a share of the blame for not changing the system or personnel earlier despite us being dominated completely within the first 45 mins. The tempo was lethargic and the back 3 passed the ball side to side without any purpose. But the experience of players such as Dorrans, Watson and Mehmet especially was disappointing as they couldn't get any sort of control over the team. Thistle were well organised and were happy to let the ball be passed around our back line.

In the games we've played against either teams in the same division or higher both in the cup and the league we've struggled in every game for large portions so I don't buy that it's just "a bad day at the office". It's early days but there needs to be a lot of work done in the next couple of weeks to shore things up, the rangers game is the perfect test to see if the defence can take a step forward and be more difficult to break down
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: hudza  
Date:   Sat 7 Aug 23:42

That was a disgrace today, no blame at all lies with the fans

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 8 Aug 17:40

Think Kinglad was a a different game from me. To say we were completely dominated in the first 45 when I`m sure we had the bulk of possession just doesn`t ring true. They scored from two corners not from sustained spells of pressure.

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Parsweep  
Date:   Sun 8 Aug 18:10

Kinglad was at the same game as me .
We didn't lay a glove on them in that first 45 mins and were lucky not be 4 down at half time .
Marginally better in the 2nd half but that wasn't difficult to be .

Bobvo
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: king lad  
Date:   Sun 8 Aug 19:22

Quote:

Paralex, Sun 8 Aug 17:40

Think Kinglad was a a different game from me. To say we were completely dominated in the first 45 when I`m sure we had the bulk of possession just doesn`t ring true. They scored from two corners not from sustained spells of pressure.


We had a load of possession but passing the ball around the back 3 endlessly is not being on top of a game. When thistle had the ball they were able to quickly get forward and create opportunities. They were happy for us to keep possession when they knew we'd be able to do nothing from it in the first half.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sun 8 Aug 20:24

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Sun 8 Aug 20:44

According to the match statistics we had more shots on target than Thistle. But of course that doesn`t disguise the fact that certain aspects of our game, namely basic defending and an inability to use our greater possession to create real scoring opportunities, were well below standard.

"Faffing about at the back", or patient build up is the tactic most English Premiership teams adopt, playing across the back and up the flanks, with the occasional cross field ball. But they have players like Andy Robertson to inject lightning pace or well placed crosses. They also have players with mercurial ball control who can retain the ball or turn defences. We had neither yesterday so our patient build up had no real end result.

What is the alternative? "A big punt up the park for the big man to chase"? Some of crossfield balls in the second half to McDonald looked promising but too often the balls down the left wing were not to feet but too ambitious and easily mopped up by the Thistle defenders.

If we can eliminate the obvious defensive errors we had yesterday we may have an even chance of beating the better teams in this league but yesterday was so disappointing as to leave us questioning if this team has it in them to make a challenge for the title.

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Sun 8 Aug 21:27

Quote:

Paralex, Sun 8 Aug 20:44

According to the match statistics we had more shots on target than Thistle.


I've posted about this before, but xG will give a far clearer indication of how a game has actually panned out, our first shot on target was in the 45th minute? From a long range shot, while it counts as a shot on target realistically it goes in 4 times out of a hundred etc.

Sadly xG aren't published for the championship as far as I know, it can help give an indication if you're going through an unlucky run and just not taking your chances, or whether the scoring is fair.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Gaz3822  
Date:   Sun 8 Aug 21:49

Our `ball possession` reminded me yesterday of Man Utd last season.

Slow as feck passing between the back 3, someone makes a bit of headway down the channel to be met with a brick wall.

The ball gets played back to said back 3 who just do the same thing again, until someone tries something different and immediately gives the ball away in midfield.

The game is seemingly turning into rocket science and the players aren`t capable of playing on instinct anymore.

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: DBA  
Date:   Sun 8 Aug 22:52

I'd be surprised if Ross Graham didn't have the most touches of any player in the first half. Thistle realised that of our back 3, Comrie is the only one who can carry the ball forward. As a result, Graham had all the time in the world as everyone knew he would run forward 20 yards then pass back to Watson.

Massive improvement needed from every single player for the Rovers game. Blocking out this Friday.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 8 Aug 22:58

Quote:

EEP, Sun 8 Aug 20:24

I watched the Hibs v Ross county game and Hibs player were taking 1 to 2 touches before playing forward creating chances…We faff about.


For once I agree. Chief culprit was Graham at the back. Slower than a week in jail

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 10:22

Graham will never make it as a pro footballer, rarely see a centre half as useless as playing in defence
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Frank Butchers LoveHandles  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 10:38

Quote:

Andrew283, Mon 9 Aug 10:22

Graham will never make it as a pro footballer, rarely see a centre half as useless as playing in defence


That's the spirit. Written him off before he is barely got going. FFS!

Awight Pat!
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Ladswell_Thistle  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 10:57

Excuse my daftness but what is xG?



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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 11:03

Slower than a week in jail, DAno1, do you speak from personal experience?
Seemingly xG is an abbreviation meaning expected goals. Probably a calculation based on other statistics of the match. Sounds a bit boring to me.


Post Edited (Mon 09 Aug 11:07)
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Kessel  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 11:08

Quote:

Gaz3822, Sun 8 Aug 21:49

Our `ball possession` reminded me yesterday of Man Utd last season.

Slow as feck passing between the back 3, someone makes a bit of headway down the channel to be met with a brick wall.


This is what happens when your Chairman appoints a clueless manager who never even applied for the job.

Either get used to it or hope that now our new board members are in control that they punt Grant and get a real manager in pronto.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 11:14

Our new board members approved PG`s appointment by all accounts.

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Kessel  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 11:18

McArthur & Braisby did Eck Lad. Now that new board members have control they'll hopefully deal with it in the correct manner 👍🏿
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 14:13

So first it was the chairman, now it`s the chairman and vice-chairman! Any advance on that? I think you just make it up as you go along.

I find it inconceivable that the board would appoint a new manager without consulting the people who were on the point of taking control of the club.

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 14:53

"I am involved with all decisions the club have made in the past and i was involved in the decision to sign Peter as well"

Thomas Meggle at the takeover press conference.

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 15:21

Quote:

GJS93, Mon 9 Aug 14:53

"I am involved with all decisions the club have made in the past and i was involved in the decision to sign Peter as well"

Thomas Meggle at the takeover press conference.


Ach, you don't want insignificant little facts like that to get in the way, when you have an agenda to push, GJS. 😉



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 15:28

Expected goals are published for the Championship:

https://footystats.org/scotland/championship/xg

Not sure who publishes the underlying stats footystats uses.

Also averages in more detail on the Pars stats page.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 15:33

Actually I just saw footystats use their own calculation methodology so not sure how that stands up to some of the bigger names publishing the XG stats.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 16:34

Playing without a crowd may work better than what we tried on Saturday...playing without a midfield 😉

You can't judge a manager in 3 months, 3 weeks of which we have played football.
PG will be given AT LEAST this season and IMHO rightly so.

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 18:34

Quote:

Ladswell_Thistle, Mon 9 Aug 10:57

Excuse my daftness but what is xG?


Short for "expected goals"

It's just another way of interpreting who's been the better team in a game, for example some people will say "We dominated possession and had more shots on target so we should've won" however xG quantifies how good a chance those shots were.

For example if a team had 20 shots but they were all from miles out and never posed a threat to a keeper, and they got beat by a side who had 2 shots however they were open goals from a cutback, who "deserved" to win?

The reason I'm bringing it up, is I'm sure there's been plenty time where the pars have been going through a bad run of form, however you feel like you're not necessarily playing badly, you're just not quite getting the run of green? xG would go someway to explaining that.


I use Brentford as an example allot because I follow them down here, but Thomas Frank had a hopeless start in terms of winning games and getting points, however xG showed we were playing well and things could, and should turn. So the owner didn't panic, the next season they reached the playoff final and the season after they got promoted.


Wyscout would have the data, no paying for it though.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: The Toun Clock  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 18:54

If professional footballers can’t take a little stick for a poor performance then maybe it’s not for them. Do you think Peter Grant was all nicey nice in the dressing room after? Doubtful.

If I’m forking out for season tickets, shirts etc then I’ll let my feelings know. It’s very early in the season but the league form has been dismal. There seems to be a lot of expectation on us this season. The manager created that with his talk and ambition, the new takeover adds fuel to it as does signings like Kennedy & Dorran’s, so when you’ve just been played off the park to Thistle a bit of vocal disapproval is absolutely justified.

It’s more the fashion we lost on Saturday, out without a whimper. If players are battling and giving their all then the fans Will back them, but that was weak on Saturday. The players need a kick up the bottom .

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: LazyBW  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 20:07

Worth noting that xG can't always be the sole indicator of whether a team deserved to win or not.

The Scotland v Croatia game had the xG as Scotland 1.54 and Croatia 0.78 which gives the impression that Scotland should've won based on the chances created. However the full story of the game that day showed that Croatia were worthy of their win as they dominated the match through an inspired display from Luca Modric.

I hope that doesn't come across as argumentative - more just that xG isn't complete fool proof.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 21:13

Quote:

LazyBW, Mon 9 Aug 20:07

Worth noting that xG can't always be the sole indicator of whether a team deserved to win or not.

The Scotland v Croatia game had the xG as Scotland 1.54 and Croatia 0.78 which gives the impression that Scotland should've won based on the chances created. However the full story of the game that day showed that Croatia were worthy of their win as they dominated the match through an inspired display from Luca Modric.

I hope that doesn't come across as argumentative - more just that xG isn't complete fool proof.



Oh absolutely agreed LazyBw, like any bit of data it need supplemented by the mk1 eyeball.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 21:28

Sport is funny in a way. You go to the cinema, theatre, museum, art gallery or wherever and don't like something you maybe mutter to yourself and leave at most. You've paid an entry fee but don't feel it gives you permission to yell that it's rubbish. Yet put people in a stadium and suddenly it's normal to be screaming abuse.

What's funnier is the notion that we believe that by yelling a remark like "get [name] off the pitch, he's hopeless!" is going to result in a sudden improvement in performance.

Even people voting with their feet won't guarantee change at a club our size. If it gets to a point where a manager needs to go but hasn't been sacked, it's likely that it's cheaper to see out their contract than have a few hundred less in the stadium. Maybe that'll be different with the new owners.

I'm not having a go at people who scream abuse (no-one on here can claim they haven't done it!), just that it's odd when you think about it. We're "supporters" but only offer support when the team is doing well.
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: The Toun Clock  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 22:25

It’s sport, it happens everywhere in sport. You can’t compare it with cinemas and museums. Theatres to an extent because you’re paying to watch a live performance but they tend to be quiet places, it would be completely unnatural to shout at the theatre. Sporting arenas aren’t quiet places, and tend to house supporters that are very passionate.

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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 9 Aug 22:39

Not all sport. I had a moment similar to the scene in Still Game when Jack and Victor take in an ice hockey games in Canada. This was at a baseball game where "aw fur f's sake" was quickly found to not be the appropriate response accepted in the arena 🙊
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 Re: Would we be better playing without a crowd?
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Tue 10 Aug 08:50

Quote:

The Toun Clock, Mon 9 Aug 22:25

Theatres to an extent because you’re paying to watch a live performance but they tend to be quiet places, it would be completely unnatural to shout at the theatre.


You say that, but then there's always this story, which I've heard from a couple of different sources. This one lifted from a music forum.

There was (probably still is) a woman called Pia Zadora, who was/is an actress, model & singer who was spectacularly mediocre at all three.

Someone had the bright idea of casting her in the lead rôle in a Broadway production of ‘The Diary Of Anne Frank’.

Come the opening night, her performance was so execrable that when the Nazi soldiers stormed onto the stage looking for Anne, the whole audience was said to have cried out in unison, “She’s in the attic!”.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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