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 The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 00:02

First of all, this is not a post aimed at defending Peter Grant. But he doesn’t stand alone in the poor performances, some of the attention should be placed on the playing squad too.

Grant has given opportunities to shine to the likes of Mehmet, Graham, Dorrans and Pybus. They have to take some of the blame for their performances. To say they’ve been “off it” is kind.

Two players in particular though who I think have escaped a lot of attention, step forward Dom Thomas and Paul Watson.

Last season, Thomas was posted missing on many occasions, and looked like his attitude was an issue. The move to make him captain could have been an attempt by Grant to manage this out of him and make him a leader, having to strip him of that early on says as much about the player as it does the manager.

The one though that is nagging me the most is Paul Watson. Such a senior player, central defender, you’d think obvious captain material - but never has been made so. He got an easy ride last year but also went hiding when going got tough. This season he again has been part of the problem, and his interview leaves a real bitter taste in the mouth with his obvious dig at the manager.

Grant seems to have been given more time by the board, still think it’s the wrong decision and we should change it - but this squad has a touch of the 2018/19 gang about them which really worries me. Let’s not let the players - in particular those old enough and experienced enough, off the hook.

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: gordi-b  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 06:08

Good post 1885 , was mulling over the same thing yesterday, there is obviously something wrong in the dressing room not just in the defeats but more in the manner of them , the meek way we surrender , no fight or attitude , players looking like they don,t want to be there, and players continually in the starting 11 whose performances do not merit inclusion , partucularly the goalkeeping situation where despite making blunder after blunder he still retains his place, O.F.W. must be bewildered as must other players seeing underachievers constantly selected.

G.B
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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 06:36

A fine post, parsman.

I must confess to being a little bit curious about the rather noticeable scratch on the manager`s nose. The last time I saw something like that, the fella had been in a stramash.

I do wonder if there were some handbags on the training ground last week...?

My money is on YES. And it might well explain a few things.

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: robbie  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 07:57

I thought it was fairly obvious that our 2 central defenders
had downed tools yesterday.
It`s starting to look like Stephen Kennys time with us.

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: davepars  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 08:10

Not advocating Kenny`s time at the club, but at least that came with a cup run beating Rangers, Hearts & Hibs on the way to the final, losing 1-0 to Celtic.
Something this charlatan is never going to achieve.

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 08:38

Actually, as time passes and I reflect on that game, the more I think that many of those ground passes that went to the opposition players from our defenders and midfielders were not unbelievably careless, as I thought at the time, but very likely absolutely deliberate.

Nobody wants that to be the case, but...

I certainly remember thinking at the time that a certain player was taking the p*** when he casually lobbed a goalscoring opportunity over the bar minutes from the end. And his attitude was by no means unique.

For sure, I want Peter Grant out the door, but I think there probably should be a few players quickly following him. At the very least, several need a really good talking to.

Someone with an independent viewpoint needs to go through a game tape, thoroughly review the actions, and report their findings to the board.

Realistically, this is a team that needs a major shakeout, even this early in the season.

The player group might, on paper, be capable of challenging, but as anybody who has been a manager of anything will tell you, sometimes you have to cull a few bad apples if you want to progress.

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 08:45

Alternatively maybe the players recognise an absolute imposter of the highest order when they see one. Someone who repeatedly plays them out of position, one who plays a system that doesn`t suit them, picks players regardless of form or confidence & who it`s pretty obvious is a slavering rambling mess of a man?

Just a thought.



Post Edited (Tue 31 Aug 08:46)
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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 09:21

Watson's interview just reeked of frustration. I think it was pretty telling and good on him for being honest.
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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 09:27

It’s quite ironic that the players most letting grant down just now are the ones he signed! And some on a 2 year deal *shudder*. Filled the squad with central defenders to presumably play 352 but brought nothing into the middle of the park. Were we sold a pup with the big Lithuanian or is he just unhappy he moved into our sh1tshow and benched ahead of a loaner youngster who has barely kicked a competitive ball and it has immediately showed.

I do agree about Thomas, there’s defo an attitude problem there and he reminds me of Higgy, unplayable on his day or worse than a man down when it doesn’t work, he seems to have the same ratio too at about 1 in 10 being a good day which is why he now finds himself going down the way club wise.

I look at our midfield this season and it’s just awful, compounded by everytime I look on LiveScore at the other championship scores I see turner has at least assisted (2 more on sat) what a disaster that was and we still haven’t replaced him. There’s no pace in the team, no craft or guile either. At least we have a decent target man now I guess and pybus can run about.

Got to think morale must be low, comrie a cracking performer last year hung out to dry, Williams watching his replacement who walked Straight in chucking one in every week.

Things will be looking up……..now yogi is gone!

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 10:03

One thing I detest above everything else in football is players `downing tools` to make a point. It`s a total affront to the people who pay their wages. I felt quite uncomfortable reading that interview with Paul Watson. If the players are unhappy with the manager they should take it up with someone inside the club.

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: 1985Par  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 10:05

The players look confused. Grant has come in and imposed a "playing style" on a squad of players who can`t play it. Grant thinks he`s in La Liga. The 3/5 at the back suits nobody in our team, least of all Comrie. He`s told Graham that it`s 1970 again and to play like he`s Beckenbauer. He needs to stop being pretentious and revert to 442. As a result of the confusion we get beat, confidence has dropped and we end up in a vicious circle.

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: Gaz3822  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 10:37

I agree with all of the above.

But the big problem will be, who the hell do they bring in as replacement?

Who will they bring in and stabilise things on the park ?
Because let`s face it, the last 4 years, and this now being the 5th, we`ve been an absolute shekshow on the park, and thing`s are seemingly getting worse.

The board can`t afford to make another mistake that`s for sure, so the next guy needs to be a proven manager.

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 12:44

On these two players, I think I have a bit of sympathy.

Thomas is a winger and a decent one at that. When we were playing the 3-4-3 system there was no room for a winger (which makes the signing of Kennedy bizarre too) so Thomas must have thought his chances of playing a major role were thin. He was was pressed into service as a central midfielder which is something he is definitely not suited to, and was then bombed out the team when that experiment unsurprisingly didn`t work. When we played a more orthodox 4-4-2 on Saturday, Grant picked Kennedy and Dow despite complaining post match that they lacked fitness as if somehow there were no other options to okay wide. When Thomas did come on it was in place of Pybus and there was another reshuffle with Dow playing in the middle which isn`t his preferred position although he`s better there than Thomas I`d suggest. So we have a guy who we know is inconsistent but on his day can be a threat, a guy who developed good understandings with the full backs Edwards and Comrie last season but who doesn`t fit into the system the manager went with, was played in a position alien to him, was dropped then passed over for players who were said to not be 100% fit. How would you feel in that situation?

On Watson, last season he was with a fairly consistent three others in a flat back four and with a goalkeeper he knew. In pre season and the Premier Sports Cup we rotated the goalkeepers which is fine in isolation but also moved to a back three and had several new centre backs to bring into the squad. Now he is by far the most experienced defender and has a goalkeeper he can`t trust behind him and a couple of defenders he can`t trust alongside him. He also doesn`t have any protection in front of him as the wing backs are instructed to push on and thr two central midfielders seem to have no defensive responsibility. When we played with a back 4 on Saturday both full backs were still very high up the pitch and the central midfield pair weren`t tracking runners so he was often left in a de facto back two with a shaky goalkeeper behind him. It seems from the comments that he didn`t expect to be playing until Graham tested positive for Covid (which is baffling in itself) and that the squad were expecting to play a back three I til the positive tests. So we have a senior player having to try snf hold together some inexperienced teammates with little support from the midfield and then he`s told he won`t be playing but rather an on loan player who has been directly or indirectly to blame for several goals conceded this season would be playing in his place. Again, how would you feel?

Players are humans like everyone else and want consistency, want to feel wanted, want to play a role where they can be at their best to influence things - both these players have had none of that which is why I sympathise with them more than thr OP.

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 13:15

I thought Dom Thomas underwhelmed last season too after a positive start. He has scored one league goal for us which is a poor return for someone of his ability. He put in a few corners early on in the season that Euan Murray converted but didn`t create much from open play in the games I watched either.Far from being the worst but we need more out of him although I appreciate he has been played out of position so far this season which doesn`t help.

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: Ianoappar  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 14:06

Yes I heard that there was a confrontation between Grant and a player,person sitting behind me on Saturday mentioned Dom Thomas allegedly.

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: back oh the net  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 14:34

Quote:

OzPar, Tue 31 Aug 06:36

A fine post, parsman.

I must confess to being a little bit curious about the rather noticeable scratch on the manager`s nose. The last time I saw something like that, the fella had been in a stramash.

I do wonder if there were some handbags on the training ground last week...?

My money is on YES. And it might well explain a few things.


Or mibby he’s been clowning around wae the dog (or cat) and it’s caught him wae a left paw and scratched his nose? Handbags at training? Doubt it he strikes me as the type of manager that would bin a player sharpish for that sort of carry on

Come on ye pars ⚽️
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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 14:38

Kelty I think you’ve nailed it. Man management like that will quickly see you out a job at full time level.

Might explain the decision to try 442 instead of stick with the 352 as we just didn’t have the right personal due to 2 players missing through covid.

Things will be looking up……..now yogi is gone!

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 15:42

I don`t think you are too wide of the mark there, Kelty?

I was delighted when we got Thomas to replace Kiltie. A good, old fashioned winger, who could beat a full back on either side, but he has never reached the levels he showed when we had him on loan.




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 16:57

A scratch and a whisper in the crowd and now the manager`s fighting with a particular player - who still made the squad and came on as a sub at half-time.

All these suggestions that Grant struggles with full-time players are a bit much too. He`s been in the game for about 40 years as a player, coach and manager and his two seasons with Alloa are his only experience with part-time players.

He`s in the firing line of course but some stuff`s just OTT.

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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 18:11

I would be disappointed if the players were not trying. This league is very competitive so players and manager I would hope are focussed on turning things around very quickly.

Post Edited (Tue 31 Aug 18:30)
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 Re: The players - their responsibility?
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 18:25

Cuz, that post must have taken 20 minutes to write. 20 minutes you could have been plowing the wife😘.

Any kids on the horizon yet? I`m having trouble with mine but won`t go into it on a public forum.

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