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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Sun 31 Oct 15:11
No doubt there will be posts on who we should get - I`m trying to come from a different angle.
In other businesses, if you were going to recruit for a key position, you would take your time, and possibly call in professional help. Ideally you would have plenty notice and you could plan long term. Football tends to think short-term, which is one of the problems. But I hope some "succession planning" has been going on behind the scenes.
The BoD has been criticised (fairly in my view) for its decision making, and I hope that it is trying to learn from its mistakes.
It seems to me that we suffer a little from the “Jock Stein” effect – that we hope, either through luck or good judgement, to appoint someone who will turn out to be brilliant, and who will have a transformational effect. Perhaps our expectations are unreasonable.
Looking at the managers in my lifetime, it seems you can pigeon-hole them into various categories (some will fit into more than one). Some of these were more successful that others. Some had big budgets, some didn’t.
Former Players – Miller, Melrose, Leishman, Paton, Crawford
Played at a high level – Stanton, Forsyth, Grant
Experienced old hand – Munro, Scott, Hay, Jefferies
From within – Campbell, McIntyre, Potter
Left field - Calderwood
Up and coming – Farm, Wright, Kenny
Specific experience - Johnston
Unfortunately, we are appointing from a position of weakness, rather than a position of strength. I think that means we need a safe pair of hands for now, rather than gambling on someone promising but relatively inexperienced. (That can come in a couple of years). But that would suggest someone like Munro, Scott or Hay. We may be in more trouble than I thought...
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Topic Originator: BlackLight
Date: Sun 31 Oct 15:24
I don`t agree that we`re appointing from a position of weakness. The Pars job should be pretty attractive and the only way is up in terms of performance. There are some decent players there and some semblance of a plan, plus some motivation should make a big difference.
I think it`s one of two options:-
Someone who has a connection to the club or
Someone on the up
I really don`t want someone that has been around the managerial merry go round a few times and then just falls off at EEP. Davie Hay, Jocky Scott, ugh.
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Topic Originator: BlackLight
Date: Sun 31 Oct 15:32
I realise that ^^^ actually means Stuart Petrie.
I have no idea whether he`d be any good. I`m not instinctively in favour of the idea, which probably makes it a good idea.
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Sun 31 Oct 15:52
The winning sort.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Sun 31 Oct 16:20
It could be that the sort of manager who could rally the troops and keep us in this league is not necessarily the same sort of manager who in the longer term will build us into a premier league team
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 31 Oct 16:50
Quote:
DBP, Sun 31 Oct 16:20
It could be that the sort of manager who could rally the troops and keep us in this league is not necessarily the same sort of manager who in the longer term will build us into a premier league team
I get where you're coming from, DBP.
A Jim Leishman type to get us into the Premiership and a Jock Stein to have us challenging the big city clubs in the top half. 🙂
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Sun 31 Oct 17:20
If Only G.G.
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Sun 31 Oct 17:34
One that actually applies and doesn't think it's beneath him.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Sun 31 Oct 18:55
How about a dotnet committee.
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Topic Originator: Angus_W
Date: Sun 31 Oct 18:59
“fresh robust recruitment process”
“.........it ain’t over till the Pars score!”
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Topic Originator: purekozma
Date: Sun 31 Oct 19:47
Good summary McCaigs Tower
Being bottom of the league the club currently in doo doo, with the manager to be decided and remaining staff Shields, Whittaker and Meggle in charge you would think senior players like Dorrans and OFW to step up to help out too
Would love to see Hamish French being asked along even for some part time work with the forwards or with fitness, would have said Crawford but too soon too soon - the club can`t ostracise all ex players from the club. Must be tons of extra work to be done like scouting would like to keep ex-players in the family spirit.
‘League 1 title winners 2023.’
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Topic Originator: purekozma
Date: Sun 31 Oct 20:00
Club needs a rebrand soon once appointment has steadied the ship
COYP
‘League 1 title winners 2023.’
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Mon 1 Nov 01:02
I take MCT’s original point about Pars supporters suffering from Jock Stein syndrome: the dubious belief that a manager with a good track record will decide to take up the post at EEP. We are bottom of our division so the only credible candidates will be either unemployed managers with top division experience (and presumably experience of failure) or promising young managers from a lower tier from whatever country.
However I think MCT undermines his own case for a safe pair of hands by referring to Jock Stein, a man with no managerial experience when he turned up at EEP. His CV (not that they existed back then) read:
Coach of Celtic Reserve Team and Youth Coach 1957-1960.
Trophies won: Second XI Cup 1958.
And Jock Stein didn’t apply for the job either! He was invited to a meeting of the BOD. Our situation in March 1960 was worse than the one our next manager will inherit: 6 games to avoid relegation.
As for all the talk of a new manager needing funds to build a new squad, Jock Stein didn’t seem to need that. He just made the players already there play better as a team. When we won the Scottish Cup in 1961, 8 of our players had played in Jock Stein’s first game as manager.
sammer
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 1 Nov 07:44
Quote:
sammer, Mon 1 Nov 01:02
And Jock Stein didn’t apply for the job either! He was invited to a meeting of the BOD. Our situation in March 1960 was worse than the one our next manager will inherit: 6 games to avoid relegation.
As for all the talk of a new manager needing funds to build a new squad, Jock Stein didn’t seem to need that. He just made the players already there play better as a team. When we won the Scottish Cup in 1961, 8 of our players had played in Jock Stein’s first game as manager.
The late, great Geordie Peeples once told me that "Jock Stein used to make us feel 10 feet tall and believe we could beat anybody."
Considering Peebles was almost half that height, it was no mean feat. 🙂 (Is there a pun in there?)
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Mon 1 Nov 13:25
Quote:
GG Riva, Mon 1 Nov 07:44
Quote:
sammer, Mon 1 Nov 01:02
And Jock Stein didn’t apply for the job either! He was invited to a meeting of the BOD. Our situation in March 1960 was worse than the one our next manager will inherit: 6 games to avoid relegation.
As for all the talk of a new manager needing funds to build a new squad, Jock Stein didn’t seem to need that. He just made the players already there play better as a team. When we won the Scottish Cup in 1961, 8 of our players had played in Jock Stein’s first game as manager.
The late, great Geordie Peeples once told me that "Jock Stein used to make us feel 10 feet tall and believe we could beat anybody."
Considering Peebles was almost half that height, it was no mean feat. 🙂 (Is there a pun in there?)
Just making a heel of yourself with your bad puns. However, I will toe the line and laugh. Ha! Ha!
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Wed 3 Nov 17:19
Sammer – re Jock Stein, I’m not sure that was the point I was trying to make. I certainly wouldn’t have classified him as experienced, or a “safe pair of hands”.
I’m too young to remember, but how was Jock’s appointment viewed at the time? Did people say “he’s promising, we’ve done well to get him”? Or was it more like “who? What’s he ever done”?
If he was invited to apply, he must have had some sort of recommendation or reputation, but from this distance it seems like he was a surprise choice, but presumably he impressed the board and they took a bit of a punt, because we were likely to be going down anyway. And their gamble paid off spectacularly.
But this can be a problem with long-shots paying off – you are attempted to replicate the feat, usually without success. (I was going to illustrate this with the punter who backed Foinavon in 1967 who thinks the way forward is to back horses named after Scottish mountains…)
I suspect many BoDs want to unearth the next Stein, the next Ferguson, the next Shankly or the next Clough – someone who seemingly get players (and teams) to outperform – and enjoy some success before they move on to bigger things. But this seems high-risk.
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Wed 3 Nov 17:23
It could be that the sort of manager who could rally the troops and keep us in this league is not necessarily the same sort of manager who in the longer term will build us into a premier league team
That’s a fair point DBP – for example we allegedly appointed Allan Johnston as he had a track record of getting promotion from tier 3, and that’s what we wanted. Unfortunately, he couldn’t move to the next level (a bit like some of the players who can win you promotion).
Normally I would favour someone up and coming, someone with ideas and enthusiasm, a spark of originality and with a little bit of experience and who could implement a long term plan, founded on a successful youth development program with firm roots in the community. Someone who we would struggle to hold onto, but who would have groomed a successor. I’m not sure such a candidate exists, within our budget.
I certainly wouldn’t want one of the worthy but dull brigade, or a media darling.
There are some candidates who appear to have performed minor miracles at some places, and totally bombed at others – Hopkin might be in this category – are they a one-trick pony; did they just get lucky? Most managers seem to have failures on their c.v. so I’m not sure you can rule them out for that.
Going back to Jock Stein would it be fair to say he was exceptional because he got players to over-perform? Whereas our squad seems to be underperforming. Which is why I think if an old head could get to the root of that and just get them to perform to their abilities we could finish midtable.
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