DAFC.net
Home 06 July 2022 
 Post Message  |  Top of Board  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Twitter Updates  |  Log In   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 
[ please login to use the Like feature ]
 Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: rawpars  
Date:   Wed 3 Nov 22:24

Correct me if I`m wrong but apart from jock stein we have had

Tam Forsyth
Pat Stanton
Davie Hay
Peter Grant

To name but a few..

Do you think we should avoid old firm players / managers for the pars

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Wed 3 Nov 22:30

Yes but exFalkirk player/s make rather good Dunfermline managers.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Wed 3 Nov 22:47

I wish we'd had Alex Totton. Always liked what he did and how he came across.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Wed 3 Nov 22:51

Always liked him until the night we were at a capacity Brockville and the majority of the Falkirk fans were singing hate filled songs about Norrie’s demise - afterwards Totten claimed it must have been a tiny minority as he hadn’t heard anything.

Andy J
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: Never10yairds  
Date:   Wed 3 Nov 22:51

I’ll disagree because that rule would have barred Alex Ferguson from ever managing the pars, something that could have been amazing.

I don’t think being a former old firm player should give you an advantage in getting a manager job anywhere tho. Some great coaches had average or worse playing careers.



Post Edited (Thu 04 Nov 07:27)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 3 Nov 23:28

Although he never played for them Jimmy Calderwood is a massive Rangers fan and he didn't do too badly.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 4 Nov 02:46

... and let`s not forget Jock Stein.

:)

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Thu 4 Nov 07:14

Quote:

OzPar, Thu 4 Nov 02:46

... and let`s not forget Jock Stein.

:)


He didn't.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
-
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Thu 4 Nov 07:54

The names listed in the op are amongst the worst managers in our history. Hopefully the BoD don't fall for the media hype of pushing former OF player just because they played for one of them.

I doubt any of them mentioned so far will come with the full backing of the fans and would have to get off to a good start.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 4 Nov 13:02

Apart from Big Jock (obviously) the others mentioned were less than a success.

Any reason why Harry Melrose was omitted from the list ?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: rawpars  
Date:   Thu 4 Nov 13:12

Veteran as l said in my post l said correct me if l am wrong and you have as Harry did play for rangers.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: rawpars  
Date:   Thu 4 Nov 13:13

And munro

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 4 Nov 13:23

Quote:

rawpars, Thu 04 Nov 13:12

Veteran as l said in my post l said correct me if l am wrong and you have as Harry did play for rangers.


Mea culpa etc.

Senior moment.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: rawpars  
Date:   Thu 4 Nov 13:45

Mate l liked the post earlier on when Oz par Said and let`s not forget jock stein and par replied he didn`t.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 4 Nov 16:45

I would prefer we didn't get a coach with a connection to either Glasgow club. The sad fact of the matter is that most of our players openly admit that they are fans of Celtic or Rangers, including any who don't come from the West of Scotland. I know this because they were frequently asked this very question during the primary school visits we held from 2014 until the pandemic brought them to an abrupt halt in March 2020. (Even sadder, from Pars perspective, this pattern was repeated among the children themselves - I always asked the kids what their favourite team was as an ice breaker. It may be hard to believe but in some classes there wasn't a single Pars fan. ☹)

If we appointed a former Celtic player as manager, there may well be difficulties in his relationship with players who lean towards Rangers and vice versa. You may think I'm exaggerating and that players would be far too professional to allow this to colour their relationship with the manager, but prejudice, mistrust and downright antipathy are not uncommon. Before you know it, players who are not getting a regular start and think they should be, believe the manager isn't playing them because of his sectarian bias.

Appointing a non OF manager avoids these potential pitfalls.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: rawpars  
Date:   Thu 4 Nov 18:24

Brilliant post GG totally agree with you.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 4 Nov 18:49

Not that we could afford him but I'd take Derek McInnes in a heart beat and I'm going to have to respectfully say there's nothing in GGs post that would change my mind on that front.

Aberdeen are no lovers of Rangers and there were no issues with McInnes on that front that I'm aware of.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Fri 5 Nov 05:28

"Mate l liked the post earlier on when Oz par Said and let`s not forget jock stein and par replied he didn`t."


Yes, another senior moment from the Australian contingent, I am sorry to say. It is happening too frequently these days.

:)

GG, your point is valid. I had wondered if this might well have been an issue between Grant and true-blues like Shields and Whitaker.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 5 Nov 06:54

"Not that we could afford him but I`d take Derek McInnes in a heart beat and I`m going to have to respectfully say there`s nothing in GGs post that would change my mind on that front.

Aberdeen are no lovers of Rangers and there were no issues with McInnes on that front that I`m aware of."

Equally respectfully, I think you may have misinterpreted my post, lpf. The problems, if indeed there are any, are confined to within the club itself. Those who are not getting a regular game might have an additional issue with the manager, believing he`s leaving them out for sectarian reasons, rather than tactical ones or their own short comings. (Just like there are no guilty people in prisons, there are no footballers who don`t believe they should start every week.)

"GG, your point is valid. I had wondered if this might well have been an issue between Grant and true-blues like Shields and Whitaker."

I very much doubt it, Oz. I prefer to believe that coaches and senior players are far too professional to allow such prejudices to interfere with their working relationships. Besides, if Grant had an inkling that this was an issue, he`d have been chapping on the Chairman`s door before you could say didgeridoo. 😀

In the case of young players, a difficult relationship with a manager from the "other side" of the sectarian divide, is far more plausible, unfortunately.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 5 Nov 07:59

I did indeed misinterpret your post but if we do have any players that would misbehave or not perform because they were into the Rangers/Celtic nonsence then I'd be getting them out of the club ASAP rather than potentially limiting my choice of managers. I'd hope that wouldn't be an issue but if it is I'd back a manager over the player in that scenario.

If someone was an out and out bigot, we obviously shouldn't hire them.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Fri 5 Nov 10:33

Given the suggestions that a manager’s allegiances can impact his relationship with players, it’s worth noting that Dom Thomas is a huge Celtic man, who clearly fell out with PG. Meanwhile, Dorrans is obviously a Rangers man and seemed to have a good relationship with him.

Regardless of what club they have grown up supporting, professional footballers will just get on with things 99% of the time and that won’t have any real effect on their relationship with a coach. Same with coaching staff and their past allegiances to clubs.

If they’re the right person for the role, I have no issues with us employing someone who is formerly of Rangers, Celtic, Falkirk, Raith Rovers etc.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 5 Nov 10:40

‘’The sad fact of the matter is that most of our players openly admit that they are fans of Celtic or Rangers, including (m)any who don`t come from the West of Scotland. I know this because they were frequently asked this very question during the primary school visits …. Even sadder, from Pars perspective, this pattern was repeated among the children themselves.’’

An interesting topic, GG. I’m not sure how much of that affinity with the Old Firm is sectarian and how much is simply ambitious youngsters being dazzled by success. The first Rangers team I saw play had four Hearts fans (Ritchie, Greig, Millar, Brand) and one Hibs fan (Jim Baxter.) Given how successful the Edinburgh sides were in the 1950s it maybe is not so surprising that a generation of young players identified with Hearts and Hibs. There were plenty of young Pars fans around when we were successful in the 1960s and a whole batch of Dundee United supporters appeared on the East Coast in the 1980s.

A young player who feels he is being left out of the side due to sectarian bias is surely clutching at straws; no manager would risk not playing what he thought was his best team on a Saturday. I’m sure managers often select players they personally dislike, so religion can hardly be an issue.

sammer
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 5 Nov 10:48

Quote:

par-91, Fri 5 Nov 10:33

Given the suggestions that a manager’s allegiances can impact his relationship with players, it’s worth noting that Dom Thomas is a huge Celtic man, who clearly fell out with PG. Meanwhile, Dorrans is obviously a Rangers man and seemed to have a good relationship with him.

Regardless of what club they have grown up supporting, professional footballers will just get on with things 99% of the time and that won’t have any real effect on their relationship with a coach. Same with coaching staff and their past allegiances to clubs.

If they’re the right person for the role, I have no issues with us employing someone who is formerly of Rangers, Celtic, Falkirk, Raith Rovers etc.


Good post mate.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 5 Nov 11:41

Quote:

sammer, Fri 5 Nov 10:40

‘’The sad fact of the matter is that most of our players openly admit that they are fans of Celtic or Rangers, including (m)any who don`t come from the West of Scotland. I know this because they were frequently asked this very question during the primary school visits …. Even sadder, from Pars perspective, this pattern was repeated among the children themselves.’’

An interesting topic, GG. I’m not sure how much of that affinity with the Old Firm is sectarian and how much is simply ambitious youngsters being dazzled by success. The first Rangers team I saw play had four Hearts fans (Ritchie, Greig, Millar, Brand) and one Hibs fan (Jim Baxter.) Given how successful the Edinburgh sides were in the 1950s it maybe is not so surprising that a generation of young players identified with Hearts and Hibs. There were plenty of young Pars fans around when we were successful in the 1960s and a whole batch of Dundee United supporters appeared on the East Coast in the 1980s.

A young player who feels he is being left out of the side due to sectarian bias is surely clutching at straws; no manager would risk not playing what he thought was his best team on a Saturday. I’m sure managers often select players they personally dislike, so religion can hardly be an issue.


With respect, sammer, the 60s was a long time ago. I actually noted the info I gathered during our school visits, out of curiosity, as much as anything. Regarding the children, there was clear bias, no doubt due to family influences. Pupils in RC schools overwhelmingly cite Celtic as their favourite team, those in non denominational schools, Rangers. I attended an RC primary myself in the 60s and the distribution of Pars fans and Celtic fans was approx 50-50, which conveniently allowed us to play Pars v Celtic during the lunch hour. Today's ratio in these schools is about 10:1 in Celtic's favour. A similar ratio in Rangers favour can be found in many non denominational schools, probably due to the Pars lack of success now compared to the 60s.

With the players, I was specifically referring to those who do not get a regular game possibly feeling aggrieved. I completely agree that no manager would leave his best p.ayers out because they went to the "wrong" school. That would be foolhardy in the extreme and could only bring forward his dismissal.



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Fri 5 Nov 12:16

Media exposure must play a part in the ratios of Old Firm supporters as well. Even a Rangers or Celtic diehard back in the 1960s- when admittedly we were successful- could not avoid seeing 20 minute highlights of a Dunfermline game on TV at least half a dozen times a season. Newspapers had local editions so that the back pages of Sunday newspapers often featured Pars reports and behind the goal photos of Charlie Dickson planting a header into the net. The Dunfermline Press, widely read, did the same at the end of the week.

In short, a football fan living in Fife was served up the Pars on his menu whether he supported them or not. With the decline of TV and print media that can no longer be the case.

sammer
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Fri 5 Nov 13:27

GG makes reference to "the sectarian divide" with regard to those who may favour Rangers or Celtic. In my long association with the City and knowledge of the supporters of both teams, I observe that while sectarianism may be an issue with relatively few, most supporters choose to support one or the other for less obvious reasons. Some do so because of their geographical location in the city, where there may be enclaves of supporters of one of the teams, irrespective of any sectarian understanding. Others may do so because maybe like us Pars fans they saw the team playing great football and decided, that`s the team for me. I know too many from nominal and committed "Reformed church" backgrounds who support Celtic and some from RC backgrounds who support Rangers to conclude that sectarianism is the reason for choosing one team and not the other.

I would imagine that the Dunfermline school kids that GG refers to haven`t chosen on of the Glasgow big two due to sectarian reasons but because they like what they see when their Dad (or Mum for that matter) tune in to see either team in European competition, which seems an impossible dream to most other Scottish teams. In other words, they like to back a winner.

From my point of view, I would wish that young people of all backgrounds or types would have much more understanding of the issues, not of their sect but of their relative faith association since last Wednesday a friend who is a director of Scripture Union, which has done great work in Scottish schools for many years, mentioned that less than 15 percent of Scottish school children believe in a God.



Post Edited (Fri 05 Nov 13:41)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Old firm pars managers...
Topic Originator: summeragent  
Date:   Fri 5 Nov 21:25

Quote:

rawpars, Wed 03 Nov 22:24

Correct me if I`m wrong but apart from jock stein we have had

Tam Forsyth
Pat Stanton
Davie Hay
Peter Grant

To name but a few..

Do you think we should avoid old firm players / managers for the pars


If we can entice Steven Gerard I would take him 🤔.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Top of Board  |  Forum List  |  Threaded View   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 


Rows: 0
 Forum List  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Security : type 'pars' in the box:
email:
© 2021-- DAFC.net