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 No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: dpard  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:08

As per Cows. Statement just released.

https://dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=DAFC_Board_Statement_&ID=13512

The flame still burns

Post Edited (Wed 22 Dec 21:09)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:14

Correct decision imo

”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: gordi-b  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:16

Financially and practically the right decision

G.B
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:17

Can’t really argue…

sounds like a bit of frustration that the majority vote was to continue rather than to break for a couple of weeks

Post Edited (Wed 22 Dec 21:43)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: cfad  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:18

Double jabbed and boosted for what? Still locked out...
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:19

It saved a choice of which fans would be admitted.

matt forsyth
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:20

For me this was the only decision that the club could make with all the present circumstances taken into account
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:26

No other practical way of handling this. Big blow financially, though.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:28

Hopefully be some cash coming from the government.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: hudza  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:31

Why would other clubs not vote to have a break?
Good statement and sensible decision by us and at least we have stated our preference was to have a break, so tried to get supporters in for matches.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:32

Agree with the comments above. No win situation for the club. Me and my 10yr old daughter have season tickets and she doesn`t know it but Santa is bringing us hospitality tickets for Sunday. She`s never been before and would be hyper but I`m glad it`s not going ahead. It`s not worth the risk to people`s health. We`ll have a good day out later in the season (I hope).
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: DBA  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:39

Quote:

cfad, Wed 22 Dec 21:18

Double jabbed and boosted for what? Still locked out...


If you got jagged just to get to the fitbaw, you`re probably missing the bigger picture.

Unfortunately, it`s the correct decision. I`ll be enjoying both games with a beer on Pars TV - life could be worse.

Post Edited (Wed 22 Dec 21:39)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: cfad  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:46

Quote:

DBA, Wed 22 Dec 21:39

Quote:

cfad, Wed 22 Dec 21:18

Double jabbed and boosted for what? Still locked out...


If you got jagged just to get to the fitbaw, you`re probably missing the bigger picture.

Unfortunately, it`s the correct decision. I`ll be enjoying both games with a beer on Pars TV - life could be worse.

Post Edited (Wed 22 Dec 21:39)


Of course I didn`t get jabbed just to go to the footy (especially this season given our form...), my anger goes to the politicians for their decisions, not the club. Utter morons.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 21:57

At least an early decision.
Not really a finacial hit as the season ticket holders have already paid and hospitality wil get resheduled.
Not one the club could win, would more than likley be on cost grounds as it would cost for stewards etc even for 500 fans, just unfortunate no fans will get the chance to attend.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 22:06

I think there will be a bigger financial hit than you think Par. Much of the food bought for this weekend`s hospitality for a start.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 22:14

no idea if we want to or have already tried but with both clubs out of the cup moving the Caley game to the free Saturday in January would be more of an option now.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: PilmuirPar  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 22:16

Are we the only team in our league voluntarily banning our fans?

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: parfection  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 22:52

I agree with the majority view here - our club has taken the only rational decision under the circumstances. Whether the 500 limit is, in itself rational, is possibly up for debate, but the logistics of organising the chosen few at such short notice added to the financial costs of running the stadium for public use of a mere 500 fans, indicate the inevitability of our club’s action here.

Enjoy the game if you’re fortunate enough to have a season and, above all, look after yourself and those you love and care for. COYP.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 23:24

It`s a rotten situation for all clubs affected by this, and indeed there was no easy way of sorting it out. However, I can`t go along with the decision in full.

For the Arbroath game it`s probably reasonable due to the short notice, but it`s a full week until we play Inverness so I`m not sure the `short notice` argument applies so much for that one. This line annoys me a bit:

"A restricted crowd of 500, which is also subject to a 1 metre social distance, is actually worse than a closed door event, as we will still carry a large number of our costs with no revenue in return."

Small clubs all over the country routinely open their gates for crowds of 500 and often much less. If we opened one stand, with people spread out (using the ticketing system as used for the league cup games), do the costs exceed what would be paid out by a smaller club who would regularly have that number in their ground? If so, why? As for no revenue in return, that is demonstrably not true. The club already have the revenue that these people (and many others) contributed when they paid for the whole season up front back in the summer.

I know they`ve been left in a horrible position and I know it`s not a decision they`d want to make. But, the tone comes across to me as `500 isn`t worth the hassle`, and that grates a bit. Even though odds would have been against being successful in any ballot, I`d still like to have had the chance. And having paid up front, I think it`s fair to expect that wahtever can reasonably be done to get people into the ground, should be done.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 23:29

Have to hope the SG have a refund facility, as DAFC need to claim.
I wasn’t bothered 19/20, I bought my 20/21 knowing the chances were slim. But 21/22 is just getting silly!! The data out today is is it 20% as virile as previous strains, so less than normal flue!

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 23:44

Have to say I`ve kept an eye on this debate all night without contributing as I thought I`d be a lone wolf but I agree 100% with Socks.

We should have been able to make 500 work for next Wednesdays game.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: CrossPar  
Date:   Wed 22 Dec 23:49

I also agree with that viewpoint.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: bannerpar  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 01:09

Much as it`s a bummer not getting to these games I can see the club`s point of view in not wanting the costs of administering a ballot and dealing with 500 season ticket holders at a game providing no extra income at all. I think it`s the costs that will be bothering them more than the `hassle`. The financial position since 2020 must be horrendous.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: SergioDuarte  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 01:47

Utter joke decision from the club ….. again.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 07:06

"Are we the only team in our league voluntarily banning our fans?"

That`s a rather simplistic view, PP. The club has been shafted by an 11th hour decision by the SG and then inexplicably kicked in the nuts by at least 6 fellow Championship clubs, voting in their own, narrow self interests. I could probably work out who they are by looking at the upcoming fixture list. I wonder if the owners of these clubs gave even a passing thought to what their fans wanted? If the restrictions are extended, these same clubs may well regret their decision as they will lose out on more home games than they will initially.

"I know they`ve been left in a horrible position and I know it`s not a decision they`d want to make. But, the tone comes across to me as `500 isn`t worth the hassle`, and that grates a bit. Even though odds would have been against being successful in any ballot, I`d still like to have had the chance. And having paid up front, I think it`s fair to expect that wahtever can reasonably be done to get people into the ground, should be done."

I get where you`re coming from, Socks, but it`s a classic no-win scenario for the club. Leaving aside the financial considerations, can you imagine the outrage among those fans (including ST holders) who would inevitably miss out, if there was a 500 limit for the Caley game?

If you read the COWS statement again, you`ll see that the short notice refers only to the Arbroath game and that the Caley game is probably more accurately described by "creating potential divisions between supporters." We may not agree with the club`s evaluation, but I fully understand it.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 07:09

Quote:

da_no_1, Wed 22 Dec 23:44

Have to say I`ve kept an eye on this debate all night without contributing as I thought I`d be a lone wolf but I agree 100% with Socks.

We should have been able to make 500 work for next Wednesdays game.


But would the 500 not have to be season ticket holders? So, cost of a ballot, cost of stewards etc., no doubt other costs involved in having 500 people in the stadium, but no revenue.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: arpar  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 07:23

Quote:

GG Riva, Thu 23 Dec 07:06

"Are we the only team in our league voluntarily banning our fans?"

That`s a rather simplistic view, PP. The club has been shafted by an 11th hour decision by the SG and then inexplicably kicked in the nuts by at least 6 fellow Championship clubs, voting in their own, narrow self interests. I could probably work out who they are by looking at the upcoming fixture list. I wonder if the owners of these clubs gave even a passing thought to what their fans wanted? If the restrictions are extended, these same clubs may well regret their decision as they will lose out on more home games than they will initially.

"I know they`ve been left in a horrible position and I know it`s not a decision they`d want to make. But, the tone comes across to me as `500 isn`t worth the hassle`, and that grates a bit. Even though odds would have been against being successful in any ballot, I`d still like to have had the chance. And having paid up front, I think it`s fair to expect that wahtever can reasonably be done to get people into the ground, should be done."

I get where you`re coming from, Socks, but it`s a classic no-win scenario for the club. Leaving aside the financial considerations, can you imagine the outrage among those fans (including ST holders) who would inevitably miss out, if there was a 500 limit for the Caley game?

If you read the COWS statement again, you`ll see that the short notice refers only to the Arbroath game and that the Caley game is probably more accurately described by "creating potential divisions between supporters." We may not agree with the club`s evaluation, but I fully understand it.


I think it`s harsh on blaming how clubs voted on this at short notice. Every other time there has been any sort of restrictions in place its gone well beyond the initial time period. What happens if these remain in place for longer? The government is the only one responsible for this.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 08:31

“Cost of a ballot” there’s apps that do this for free! It would cost nothing to pick 500 names. I agree about the Arbroath game (just), but having no fans for Inverness with a weeks notice is very poor. You’d only need to open the Norrie, have 6 or 7 stewards, no catering.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: LEGEND85  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 08:36

I think it`s only fair that the games are behind closed doors I don`t think loyal supporters should be prevented from going to games.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 08:53

If they can get 500 ST holders in against Arbroath and Inverness, they should do it.

Given the number that won`t go due to the prevalence of the virus, coupled with those already isolating, you`d be very unlucky not to get in to one of them.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 09:05

Topic Originator: LEGEND85 like
Date: Thu 23 Dec 08:36

I think it`s only fair that the games are behind closed doors I don`t think loyal supporters should be prevented from going to games.

300 plus loyal supporter would get to go to the games, better than none. Perhaps the easy option to allow no fans but would cause divisions whatever choice they made.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 09:12

Do 500 people cover the cost of having the stands open, stewarding, health and safety personnel etc? Surely that`s the reason? The club would effectively lose money as season tickets are prepaid and the food outlets would likely be closed.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: GPar00  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 09:39

Does no one remember when Inverness had to do a ballot when they where in zone one? People got tickets via the ballot and then didn’t turn up. Don’t think the club would want to open a stand for fans, already making a loss, and then be faced with the same scenario with less than the lucky 500 turning up? Would be another meltdown on here from people who didn’t get a ticket.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: oapar  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 10:04

Let`s face it folks the club were in a no win situation after the FM announcement, whatever they did some fans were going to disagree with their decision. Just because it is the Season of Goodwill don`t expect our fans to all agree. That will never happen. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: halbe  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 10:58

It doesn`t sound like the other clubs gave them any choice but watching football online without fans is beyond bad. Pars TV do a great job and we have season tickets and doesn`t cost extra but just not interested. I cant understand why the other clubs didn`t agree to a delay. At least for those of us who go the pars game but watch the premier league down south on TV looks like it is going ahead with fans.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 11:13

Quote:

arpar, Thu 23 Dec 07:23

I think it`s harsh on blaming how clubs voted on this at short notice. Every other time there has been any sort of restrictions in place its gone well beyond the initial time period. What happens if these remain in place for longer? The government is the only one responsible for this.


Short notice has nothing to do with it, arpar. It`s completely baffling that some clubs who can attract at least 3 or 4 times as many fans to a home game would rather play with a maximum of 500. I bet it`s those who only have one home game during the 3 weeks the restrictions apply. My gut feeling is that we`ll get at least another 3 weeks of it after that, so those clubs are likely to lose out on a further 2 home games.

I would love to hear the reasoning behind this decision, by those who voted against a suspension.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 11:14

Assuming we’d be in the same position as Falkirk, with 120 ‘tickets’ being required for sponsors, players’ families etc, it really doesn’t seem worth the costs for the club, to have 380 fans getting in and getting absolutely no money for that.

Cheapest solution would be everyone in the main stand, since that would have to be powered on for directors box and media seats anyway. But there’s still additional stewards, police costs etc as well as presumably the ticketing agent we use probably asking for money to change the system, so that only 380 tickets could be sold and they all had to be distanced etc. I’d imagine that the vast majority of Future Ticketing staff are probably on annual leave, so they would likely be looking for a decent fee if we’re asking for additional work/requirements. In short, it really isn’t easy to organise this during the festive period. Every single thing that we outsource (stewards, policing, contractors etc) will cost more at this time of year. I’m sure we’ve all experienced that when we’ve required ‘emergency’ call outs for electricians, plumbers etc during that time. This decision also allows directors to enjoy time with their families just now, rather than rushing around trying to organise access to these games/ballots, which can only result in the club losing money.

I believe that our game at home to Hamilton on 15th Jan is within this 3 week window, but that hasn’t been confirmed as behind closed doors? Again, this suggests the increased costs of services over the festive period have a significant impact on this decision.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 11:41

^^^^^ Par 91 makes a valid point. I believe stewards, catering and bar staff etc. are paid double the normal rates at Christmas and New Year, but not sure if that would apply to the Caley game.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 11:59

Yeah, I don’t really know about the Caley game. But kind of going off the assumption that evening/night time rates for policing, stewards etc will still be higher than daytime rates?
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: arpar  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 12:07

Quote:

GG Riva, Thu 23 Dec 11:13

Quote:

arpar, Thu 23 Dec 07:23

I think it`s harsh on blaming how clubs voted on this at short notice. Every other time there has been any sort of restrictions in place its gone well beyond the initial time period. What happens if these remain in place for longer? The government is the only one responsible for this.


Short notice has nothing to do with it, arpar. It`s completely baffling that some clubs who can attract at least 3 or 4 times as many fans to a home game would rather play with a maximum of 500. I bet it`s those who only have one home game during the 3 weeks the restrictions apply. My gut feeling is that we`ll get at least another 3 weeks of it after that, so those clubs are likely to lose out on a further 2 home games.

I would love to hear the reasoning behind this decision, by those who voted against a suspension.


That would be a 6 week suspension while still paying all staff and possibly having to extend the season. Premier had a break anyway so no actual ficture dated lost as they are restarting early.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 12:34

If the league accepted a pause, we would be paused until fans were allowed back in significant numbers. This could end up with the season not being completed. A quick look at the league table tells you why at least 5 teams wouldn’t be keen for that. Clubs in 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th are all in with a chance of winning the league and club in 10th will want the season played to completion. If season 19/20 tells us anything, it’s that if the season isn’t played to completion, there’s no playoffs.

Likewise, if there are covid outbreaks after an extended break, this will result in ridiculous fixture pile ups at the end of the season. Again, clubs finishing 9th or 2nd-4th could end up playing 3 games per week in the lead up to the play offs. Which is just ridiculous.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 13:08

I`m going bak to the `no revenue` point that a few have made above, and I`ll say it again - the 500 who would attend were it made possible have already provided the club with revenue up front. Is that money now just taken for granted? I think Ross McArthur said at a fans meeting once that the cost per fan of stewarding was about £1 per game. Hardly huge, and people with season tickets have already paid this.

Here`s a look round the league:

Arbroath - no comment on their website yet

Inverness - nothing yet

Raith Rovers - nothing yet

Partick Thistle - voted to play on, allowing fans in to all home games by ballot

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/upcoming-home-games-update/

Kilmarnock - voted for a suspension, allowing fans in by ballot

https://kilmarnockfc.co.uk/news/club-information-home-festive-fixtures/

Hamilton - not stated, but a hint they wanted to continue. Allowing entry to those with season tickets only (asume numbers mean no ballot needed)

https://hamiltonacciesfc.co.uk/supporter-update/

QOS - no hint of how they voted, allowing fans in by ballot

http://www.qosfc.com/news-5617

Ayr - no hint on how they voted, tickets for games available to those with season tickets (first come basis, no ballot)

https://ayrunitedfc.co.uk/supporters-update-raith-rovers-boxing-day

Morton - no hint on how they voted, splitting their 900 season tickets into two groups, half getting a ticket for each game

https://www.gmfc.net/supporters-update-queen-of-the-south-dunfermline/

Based on that, does anyone still want to argue that they way we`ve chosen is the only way, given that we`re the only club in the league so far to stop fans from attending entirely? And if DAFC were to change their mind for the Inverness game, would you be saying that they were wrong to do so? If you want to be consistent, then you should.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 13:27

I thnk it`s a poor move from DAFC to shut the ground entirely to fans.
500 is better than nothing and even if they are pre paid ST holders, a physical support in the stand(s) is beneficial to the players on the park.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 13:28

Quote:

arpar, Thu 23 Dec 12:07

Quote:

GG Riva, Thu 23 Dec 11:13

Quote:

arpar, Thu 23 Dec 07:23

I think it`s harsh on blaming how clubs voted on this at short notice. Every other time there has been any sort of restrictions in place its gone well beyond the initial time period. What happens if these remain in place for longer? The government is the only one responsible for this.


Short notice has nothing to do with it, arpar. It`s completely baffling that some clubs who can attract at least 3 or 4 times as many fans to a home game would rather play with a maximum of 500. I bet it`s those who only have one home game during the 3 weeks the restrictions apply. My gut feeling is that we`ll get at least another 3 weeks of it after that, so those clubs are likely to lose out on a further 2 home games.

I would love to hear the reasoning behind this decision, by those who voted against a suspension.


That would be a 6 week suspension while still paying all staff and possibly having to extend the season. Premier had a break anyway so no actual ficture dated lost as they are restarting early.


The clubs could have reversed any decision made now in 3 weeks time, even if the restriction continue beyond that. I just think it`s very short sighted of them but we live in a democracy..... With regard to wages, I`m sure the SPFL would have been able to give any clubs in difficulty an advance on their share of TV and sponsorship monies. They might need to ask anyway, playing in front of 500 fans, all/most of whom will ST holders.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 13:41

And in the top division, of the clubs at home on boxing day (the only affected date in that league)...

Rangers - ballot
https://www.rangers.co.uk/Article/supporter-information-rangers-v-st-mirren/4h2RlzVhNalWXqfrnrmxZQ

Hearts - no explicit comment

Motherwell - ballot
https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2021/12/22/apply-for-our-livingston-ticket-ballot/

Dundee Utd - ballot
https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/7144/HIBERNIAN-FIXTURE-GOES-AHEAD-AS-SPFL-BRINGS-WINTER-BREAK-FORWARD.html

Aberdeen - no explicit comment


St Johnstone - ballot
https://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/news/article/st-johnstone-vs-celtic-ballot-process-details

And outside the top two divisions, Falkirk are comparable to us in many ways...

Falkirk - first-come basis, no ballot
https://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/2021/12/23/supporters-update-falkirk-v-clyde-ticketing/

So the top and bottom of it is that every comparable club who has already `declared` is allowing fans in up to the limit allowed, but we are not. This is an awful look - come on Pars, this surely has to be changed, at least for the Inverness game.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: LEGEND85  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 13:44

I`m happy with DAFC decision to close the doors
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 14:42

Quote:

LEGEND85, Thu 23 Dec 13:44

I`m happy with DAFC decision to close the doors


How can that possibly make you happy?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: KilsythPar  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 15:14

In my opinion, the club should be allowing 500 supporters to attend, as other clubs are doing. Poor judgement by whoever made the decision. Very disappointed.

C`mon
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: LEGEND85  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 15:47

If the doors are closed then every single pars fan is in the same boat.

Why should someone get to go ahead of other loyal supporters based on some ballot.

Either that base it on a points system so folk that go week in week out are first on the list.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: parsfan97  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 16:06

And what if restrictions are longer than 3 weeks? We just playing behind closed doors at home until they are lifted? We also have a home game v Hamilton that fall under restrictions too, so there’s 3 games everyones locked out

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: CrossPar  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 16:33

We seem to be the only club that have chosen to go down this route of excluding all fans. Speaks for itself.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 16:34

Fans should have at least been given the chance, most who wanted to go would have had a chance over the restricted games.

How are other clubs managing this, seems some are more proactive than others!

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 16:49

Topic Originator: CrossPar like
Date: Thu 23 Dec 16:33

We seem to be the only club that have chosen to go down this route of excluding all fans. Speaks for itself.

Moneys in the bank so why go out our way to cater for theses noisey pesky supporters, afterall we and our friends can get in as normal.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 16:56

Quote:

LEGEND85, Thu 23 Dec 15:47

If the doors are closed then every single pars fan is in the same boat.

Why should someone get to go ahead of other loyal supporters based on some ballot.

Either that base it on a points system so folk that go week in week out are first on the list.


So no one gets to go because all of us can`t. What an utterly bizarre concept. So, for example, should Scotland play the playoff game behind closed doors? Demand outstrips supply so no one gets to attend?

Frankly I think it`s a p*sh solution and I rarely criticize the club. Not too late to change it for next week.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"

Post Edited (Thu 23 Dec 16:57)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 16:58

Looking at the way the English Premier is going, with games already being postponed because of covid, how long till it starts affecting the playing squads?

Coincidentally I am seeing many posts from people that got negative lateral flow tests being confirmed as positive through a PCR test.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 17:01

Quote:

LEGEND85, Thu 23 Dec 15:47

If the doors are closed then every single pars fan is in the same boat.

Why should someone get to go ahead of other loyal supporters based on some ballot.

Either that base it on a points system so folk that go week in week out are first on the list.


I`m only guessing, but perhaps this is the dilemma those running our club wrestled with. They came out with the decision quite hastily, perhaps wanting to give fans as much notice as possible.

Maybe if they`d held off another day and looked at how other clubs were approaching it, they might have done it differently. It is disappointing for everyone but there would have been disappointment and unhappiness no matter what the club did. Other than Kilmarnock, we have the highest average attendance in the Championship, so it will be easier for most other clubs to satisfy their core supporters, you`d imagine.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 17:01

It`s genuinely spreading like wildfire. In my team we`d had a couple of people off over the past year. This week alone we have three off with it. One has had it twice now!
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: CrossPar  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 17:02

Remember a few weeks ago when Yogi said that Dunfermline were the laughing stock of Scottish football? Well when we make decisions like this, it just reinforces that opinion. But worse than that, it shows a disrespect for our own fans.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 17:12

I have to smile when folk say we`re the laughing stock of Scottish football. In my experience very few fans have a clue what goes on at EEP and couldn`t care less about us. That`s reflected in the media coverage too.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: CrossPar  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 17:15

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 23 Dec 17:12

I have to smile when folk say we`re the laughing stock of Scottish football. In my experience very few fans have a clue what goes on at EEP and couldn`t care less about us. That`s reflected in the media coverage too.


Eck, it was our own manager that said it!
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 17:26

"I`m only guessing, but perhaps this is the dilemma those running our club wrestled with. They came out with the decision quite hastily, perhaps wanting to give fans as much notice as possible."

Fine, but there`s still time to change it for the Inverness game. And it should be changed.

Raith Rovers now also going with a ballot system, and how they`ve done it looks very sensible to me. Probably the best of all the clubs so far.

https://www.raithrovers.net/51752/ticketing-update.htm

"Other than Kilmarnock, we have the highest average attendance in the Championship, so it will be easier for most other clubs to satisfy their core supporters, you`d imagine."

That`s fair comment, but the fact is that Kilmarnock with 4000 season tickets are attempting something to allow some people to see the game. As are Dundee United and Motherwell, who will also have more than us.

I know I`m banging on (and on) about this quite a bit, but it`s more than just an annoyance. I genuinely believe this is fundamentally wrong and that we should be fining a way to allow entry to as many as possible given rules in place.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 17:53

It doesn`t matter who says it, CrossPar. It`s a while since anybody outside our own wee community bothered about what`s happening at EEP.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 18:05

Oh no, do people think we`re a joke? I don`t know how I`ll sleep tonight...
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: GJS93  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 18:06

Inveress game on Sunday now off due to covid cases and close contacts so presumably that will put doubts over our game next week.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 18:09

I didn’t respond to this thread last night as I was very surprised that everyone appeared to back the club’s stance. I have had a season ticket for 35 years and like Socks have already paid for these games. Last year I would have been much cheaper just paying the PPV each week but had no complaints as it was no fault of the club. In view of this though I was a little disappointed at the cost of my season ticket this year but understand how difficult it must have been for the club.

This decision though just feels like a slap in the face - in my view any season ticket holder wishing to attend should be able to enter a draw of some kind (I fully appreciate the difficulties for a parent and child with season tickets but I’m sure this can’t be insurmountable) - I would have no problem whatsoever with others going if I was unsuccessful.

I see Ayr and Kilmarnock are attempting to get their Derby game rearranged.

Andy J
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Thu 23 Dec 18:15

Quote:

GJS93, Thu 23 Dec 18:06

Inveress game on Sunday now off due to covid cases and close contacts so presumably that will put doubts over our game next week.


Maybe the club knew this and was why they didn’t go to the hassle of holding a ballot for a fixture that isn’t going to happen anyway.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 00:56

I plan to request a refund on my ST’s. Personally I find the clubs attitude disrespectful.
I was happy to buy multiple season tickets over the last few years to support the club, I bought last year without thinking I would get in.
However the decision that already paid fans are to much hassle to accommodate a ballot is beyond logic!!!

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: par-91  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 08:59

What is it with people in 2021? Suddenly everyone has this sense of entitlement and self-importance. Club makes a decision that people don’t agree with and people talking about asking for refunds on their season tickets. All the people cancelling lifeline over the Grant fiasco as well.

The club made business decisions. Just because you don’t agree with one or two decisions doesn’t entitle you to a refund on your season ticket. It also didn’t justify people deciding to stop contributing money that the club budgets for, in the Grant scenario. The club opting not to lose money for the sake of making around 20% of their season ticket holders happy is hardly outrageous. Whether you think it’s the right decision or not, the directors won’t have taken any joy in making this decision.

Pathetic tantrums on here. No interest in looking at things from the club/directors’ point of view and only care about themselves. Probably throw a similar tantrum if they were unsuccessful in any ballot as well.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 09:16

I agree with the points about peoples attitudes in 2021, but disagree with the examples.

People can cancel contributions for whatever reason they see fit - if you believe an organisation is making poor decisions or going down a road you don’t like/agree with them you are completely entitled to withdraw support.

As for season tickets, if you were to treat it like any other transaction where you pay for goods or a service, then where you think that company doesn’t even try to provide that service, then you can see a case building for financial recompense.

Now your post wasn’t aimed at me, I’m a season ticket holder who didn’t ask for a refund last season and will watch the games from home if required this season… but people are entitled to spend their money where and when they want and equally to raise concerns if they don’t believe they are getting their monies worth or believe the company isn’t trying on their behalf to deliver what they paid for
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: cfad  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 09:21

Ok, but are we not meant to be `fans` (Google it), not `customers`?
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 09:23

Its nothing to do with "people in 2021"

Those who don`t agree with the decision have put over valid points as to why the club shouldn`t have went down this path and asked the question as to why similar sized clubs have taken a different decision.

If there had been a ballot and I lost out then so be it. I won`t cancel anything. But I have to say if this is how it`s going to be every winter, it`s giving me a decision to make about next years season ticket. Not a "pathetic tantrum", just a financial decision.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"

Post Edited (Fri 24 Dec 09:23)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 09:24

Another tone deaf statement from the board.

Some fans better than no fans. Surely. No matter the circumstances.

The points above from Socks and others illustrate this so much better.

Penny pinching attitude from the board coming across here rather than first thinking about what COULD be done.

Really disappointing behaviour and this is for me another negative out of a potential positive. Shutters down screw the fans. Nah lads, screw you. Stick your season book and TV feed up your bahookie, football without the fans is nothing - time you learned that DAFC board.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 09:26

It`s the old argument about whether you see your dealings with the football club as partly emotional or purely commercial. Personally, I view my lifeline contribution and season ticket renewal differently from paying my insurance premiums or utility charges but accept that others may feel differently.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Bamba-Daft  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 10:03

Season ticket holders have paid for these games, it’s no different to someone who has bought a walk up ticket online last week for the Arbroath game.. the club would refund that ticket I’d imagine. the club have the option of allowing 500 of them to access what they have paid for.. and are choosing not too, despite almost every other club taking steps to ensure they get as many fans in as possible. It’s poor from the club, but not a surprise.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 10:57

The mechanics of running a ballot for ST holders is a considerable challenge for the club.

Anybody got a suggestion as to how to do it ?
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 11:03

The statement did outline their reasons for coming to this decision.

Now it could be that any monies saved or less spent, can go to the manager to allow him to bring in some much needed recruits next month. ?

Perhaps the club can’t afford to do both ?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 11:18

Don’t see it as mutually exclusive TBH

You are be both a fan and a customer. You give the club money from both an emotional and commercial point of view.

It’s not the same as insurance as you’re paying to spectate… so more like cinema - so a purely commercial decision would be like deciding between the new Spider-Man or matrix film. Equally, If it was purely commercial decision for football then you’d consider questions like, will I but a season ticket for the pars or hibs next year or maybe even hearts as they’re likely to provide better entertainment?

So we’re all clearly fans… However, just because you are a fan doesn’t mean you shouldn’t expect a commercial agreement to be fulfilled as best as it can be
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 11:34

Imagine paying for something and feeling "entitled" to receive it.

I think most people here have been very calm about it, just disappointed that the club have chosen not to honour an agreement. I just hope no one from the board complains about any drop in season ticket sales next summer. It`s decisions like this that make it much easier not to make that commitment.

As for the ballot, if you can run a football club you can run a ballot. It`s not that difficult and, even if it is, that`s not a reason to not do it. If you can`t figure it out yourselves then ask one of the other clubs how they`re doing it, or the fan base. Don`t just give up without trying.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 11:35

I didn`t say they were mutually exclusive; that`s why I said partly emotional.

When STs went on sale for this season it was explained that there was no certainty about the service that would be on offer throughout the season and this was probably why prices were kept at the same level as for the 2019/20 season.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 11:52

Quote:

veteraneastender, Fri 24 Dec 10:57

The mechanics of running a ballot for ST holders is a considerable challenge for the club.

Anybody got a suggestion as to how to do it ?


Maybe they could ask all the other clubs in the same league? Honest to god it canny be that hard!

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"

Post Edited (Fri 24 Dec 11:52)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 12:22

Nah I’m sorry. How can almost every club elsewhere allow fans, but our doesn’t? Things that bad? They’re not. We have the cash there to deal with it of course we do. It’s sheer utter complacency and contempt of the fans in my opinion. It’s not that hard to set up a ballot on a spreadsheet by season ticket number. It’s also not hard to say as well “listen it’s tight for us to let you in with constraints, to help out with our costs why not think about donating a tenner to the fund if you get a ticket?”.

Nah, default of our club just now - the fans are a problem- that’s how it comes across.

Smacks of just screw the fans, after doe-eyes platitudes the past two years prompting a huge number of us to dig deep emotionally and financially to help out.

We’re fans when they want us to be, and now customers because it suits them.

Merry Xmas, lol. 🥺😂

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 12:24

If we conduct a 50/50 draw every other week then surely to God we can hold a ticket ballot?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 12:25

We really don’t know what difficulties the club faced when considering what to do. Pointless listing what other clubs were doing, as five clubs didn’t have to make a decision about Boxing Day as they were playing away. Of the five home teams, Hamilton and Ayr decisions probably very easy given the low number of season ticket holders. Inverness said nothing but probably knew their game was going to be off. Morton are splitting 50:50. No doubt their fans will complain that families/friends end up at different matches or they get allocated the wrong match.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 12:51

It isn`t pointless to discuss other clubs in our league. It`s perfectly valid.

What`s pointless is just accepting as one of those things we have to put up with it without reasoned debate.

Dare I say it might come back to haunt us next May/June when season ticket renewals are put on sale?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 12:52

Malcolm Canmore wrote:

> We really don’t know what difficulties the club faced when
> considering what to do. Pointless listing what other clubs were
> doing, as five clubs didn’t have to make a decision about
> Boxing Day as they were playing away. Of the five home teams,
> Hamilton and Ayr decisions probably very easy given the low
> number of season ticket holders. Inverness said nothing but
> probably knew their game was going to be off. Morton are
> splitting 50:50. No doubt their fans will complain that
> families/friends end up at different matches or they get
> allocated the wrong match.
>
>

But at least they are doing SOMETHING.

Our lot are the ONLY ones (unless someone can correct me) across ALL the fixtures in the professional league set up that is closing full stop.

That cannot go unnoticed nor unchallenged.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 12:52

Quote:

da_no_1, Fri 24 Dec 12:24

If we conduct a 50/50 draw every other week then surely to God we can hold a ticket ballot?


They don’t even have to do a ballot that involves drawing 500 tickets. Season tickets are numbered already so do it in numerical order, the 1st 500 season ticket numbers get entry this time then the next 500 next time and so on.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 13:05

"They don’t even have to do a ballot that involves drawing 500 tickets. Season tickets are numbered already so do it in numerical order, the 1st 500 season ticket numbers get entry this time then the next 500 next time and so on."

So what happens when there are households with more than one ST holders, or a child`s number comes up ?

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 13:11

The board have never been fan minded either critising fans that travel 100`s of miles and now this, not a thought given to the fans just a can`t be bothered attitude.

Our BoD do not have a good record when it comes to desision making and it will cost in the long run.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 13:11

Quote:

veteraneastender, Fri 24 Dec 13:05

"They don’t even have to do a ballot that involves drawing 500 tickets. Season tickets are numbered already so do it in numerical order, the 1st 500 season ticket numbers get entry this time then the next 500 next time and so on."

So what happens when there are households with more than one ST holders, or a child`s number comes up ?


Tough. There’s always winners and losers in these situations.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 13:16

"Tough. There’s always winners and losers in these situations."

I doubt the potential losers will agree with that lame justification.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 13:17

They use a database at the club, you can see it in operation behind the counter when they are doing tickets. That means the data is exportable. Could set it up to pick certain ticket types or whatever. Or even (novel idea) talk to other clubs about how they are making it work. I mean not so long ago we were very goo d at talking to other clubs when selecting managers…

Oh erm… never mind….

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 13:26

“There’s always winners and losers in these situations.”

Which is what the COWs statement was referring to. They’ve made a decision so that there is no division of fans.

“It also creates potential division between supporters all of whom are understandably desperate to attend East End Park.”

”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 13:30

Quote:

veteraneastender, Fri 24 Dec 13:16

"Tough. There’s always winners and losers in these situations."

I doubt the potential losers will agree with that lame justification.


What an absolutely crap argument to justify doing nothing

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 13:33

I don`t see that much division between Fans, looks like the majority of Fans think the BoD should have done more to allow some fans in!

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 13:56

Conducting a ballot of all season ticket holders is relatively easy. I assume it would also be easy to have winning tickets “authorised” for entry through the turnstiles, rather than have the owners queue up to get issued with a paper ticket on presentation of a lucky season ticket card.

Presumably you need to ask people to “opt-in” otherwise half the winners will be unavailable for a variety of reasons – they had other plans, can’t or don’t want to go on their own etc.

But that introduces complications – the phone lines will be busy. Emails will have to be answered.

Then you have to contact the winners - again by email or by phone, and probably individually – I’m not sure whether publishing bulk lists would be compliant with Data Protection laws.

These are big jobs to do at short notice when I assume the office was going to be shutting early for Christmas.

Then what is the legal position? There may be a force majeure clause that suggests that the contract need not be fulfilled in the case of pandemic. But what happens if it can be fulfilled for some people but not for others who have paid for the same service? Normally, they would be entitled to a refund. Has the club taken legal advice?

How many people get to go to a “behind closed doors game”? Presumably coaching staff, spare players, club officials, health and safety people, media. Does the 500 exclude those or include them?

Maybe the club did consult with others and decided that what they proposed wouldn’t work. (The bigger teams may have tried and tested procedure for conducting ballots for European games or Cup Finals). Maybe the players wanted to play in an empty stadium?! 😉

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 13:59

Now it could be that any monies saved or less spent, can go to the manager to allow him to bring in some much needed recruits next month. ?

Come on, seriously? If I didn`t imagine reading the comment that it costs about £1 per fan for stewarding then it`s likely going to be less than £2k in total for the three home games. Or about the cost of 7 adult season tickets. In terms of player budget for half a season, that is effectively zero. If the actual costs incurred are much higher I`d like to hear what they actually are. I might reconsider my stance in that case.

As for how a ballot should be run, I`d suggest people look at the link I put up last night on how Raith Rovers are doing it. It looks by far the best option and means that you go into the ballot as a group, with either all or none of that group getting a ticket. If it`s done differently then some people might be annoyed but it would still be better than just saying `nobody is getting in`.

"Pointless listing what other clubs were doing, as five clubs didn’t have to make a decision about Boxing Day as they were playing away. Of the five home teams, Hamilton and Ayr decisions probably very easy given the low number of season ticket holders. Inverness said nothing but probably knew their game was going to be off. Morton are splitting 50:50. No doubt their fans will complain that families/friends end up at different matches or they get allocated the wrong match."

So what about Motherwell, St Johnstone and Dundee United, two of whom will have more people in their ballots than we would? It`s not pointless listing them at all. By listing all of them, it shows that we are the only club (possibly along with Aberdeen and Hearts, couldn`t find info there) that will have nobody at our game on Sunday. And every other club at home on Wednesday will have some fans at their games.

So where does it end? If we stick with this line and have nobody at the Hamilton game also, will that be acceptable?

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 14:13

I see Hearts are playing behind closed doors on Boxing Day ? I don’t know what reasons they have given




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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 14:14

Socks wrote:

> Now it could be that any monies saved or less spent, can go
> to the manager to allow him to bring in some much needed
> recruits next month. ?

>
> Come on, seriously? If I didn`t imagine reading the comment
> that it costs about £1 per fan for stewarding then it`s likely
> going to be less than £2k in total for the three home games.
> Or about the cost of 7 adult season tickets. In terms of player
> budget for half a season, that is effectively zero. If the
> actual costs incurred are much higher I`d like to hear what
> they actually are. I might reconsider my stance in that case.
>
> As for how a ballot should be run, I`d suggest people look at
> the link I put up last night on how Raith Rovers are doing it.
> It looks by far the best option and means that you go into the
> ballot as a group, with either all or none of that group
> getting a ticket. If it`s done differently then some people
> might be annoyed but it would still be better than just saying
> `nobody is getting in`.
>
> "Pointless listing what other clubs were doing, as five
> clubs didn’t have to make a decision about Boxing Day as they
> were playing away. Of the five home teams, Hamilton and Ayr
> decisions probably very easy given the low number of season
> ticket holders. Inverness said nothing but probably knew their
> game was going to be off. Morton are splitting 50:50. No doubt
> their fans will complain that families/friends end up at
> different matches or they get allocated the wrong match."

>
> So what about Motherwell, St Johnstone and Dundee United, two
> of whom will have more people in their ballots than we would?
> It`s not pointless listing them at all. By listing all of them,
> it shows that we are the only club (possibly along with
> Aberdeen and Hearts, couldn`t find info there) that will have
> nobody at our game on Sunday. And every other club at home on
> Wednesday will have some fans at their games.
>
> So where does it end? If we stick with this line and have
> nobody at the Hamilton game also, will that be acceptable?
>
>

This.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 14:15

Quote:

buffy, Fri 24 Dec 13:26

“There’s always winners and losers in these situations.”

Which is what the COWs statement was referring to. They’ve made a decision so that there is no division of fans.


Well that worked well then eh?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 14:31

"What an absolutely crap argument to justify doing nothing"

Not when the doing "something" is liable to be divisive.

The standard arguement is that ST holders should get preference over walk up fans - that is fair, STs have pledged their cash to the club ahead of PATG.

However, if you follow that line then households who have paid upfront for multiple STs should have priority in a random draw over single STs.

That`ll be popular.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 14:36

Quote:

veteraneastender, Fri 24 Dec 14:31

"What an absolutely crap argument to justify doing nothing"

Not when the doing "something" is liable to be divisive.

The standard arguement is that ST holders should get preference over walk up fans - that is fair, STs have pledged their cash to the club ahead of PATG.

However, if you follow that line then households who have paid upfront for multiple STs should have priority in a random draw over single STs.

That`ll be popular.


Just like this decision then?!

Oh well. See you in August then.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 14:39

Why not address any queries to the Supporters` Liaison Officer, Drew Main, who is on the board? I don`t know how the line of communication is supposed to work but he posts on here.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 14:39

A ballot? That`ll be hard.

We`re looking at three games at least. Everyone who wants to will get to go a game, they`ll also all miss out (except maybe the people who made the decision).

The feeling I`m getting from posters arguing against the decision is that they`d be perfectly happy taking their chances and taking what they can get. The people against having the club honour its commitments as best it can seem happy to think the worst of us.

People understand the situation and, yes, bought season tickets in the knowledge that games might be behind closed doors again. Not that the club would choose to lock them out when it didn`t have to.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 14:39

No decision was going to be universally popular.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 14:52

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 24 Dec 14:39

Why not address any queries to the Supporters` Liaison Officer, Drew Main, who is on the board? I don`t know how the line of communication is supposed to work but he posts on here.


Andrew@dafc.co.uk

I`m going to be very popular with Drew, when he finds his mailbox is jammed with complaints from unhappy Pars fans..... 😃



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 14:55

That`s you off his Christmas card list permanently GG.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 15:07

His email address is on COWS so it`s no secret.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Kaiser Chief  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 15:10

Not at all GG 😡. Seriously though, always happy to respond to any emails I get. Might take me a bit longer at the moment as I`m on holiday but I`ll do my best to get back to anyone who gets in touch.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 15:18

Quote:

Kaiser Chief, Fri 24 Dec 15:10

Not at all GG 😡. Seriously though, always happy to respond to any emails I get. Might take me a bit longer at the moment as I`m on holiday but I`ll do my best to get back to anyone who gets in touch.


Is that smoke I see coming out of your ears?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: brian  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 16:13

I`m really not sure what people expect, it`s a pandemic.
the club made a decision so you may not liek it but thats the way it is.

further matches are now being postponed.

I would have agreed that the next 3 weeks should have been postponed, but there are other reasons for not following that line of discussion.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 16:44

brian wrote:

> I`m really not sure what people expect, it`s a pandemic.
> the club made a decision so you may not liek it but thats the
> way it is.
>
> further matches are now being postponed.
>
> I would have agreed that the next 3 weeks should have been
> postponed, but there are other reasons for not following that
> line of discussion.
>
>

Take your last point first, of course that’s what SHOULD have happened. I’d love to know who voted against us and why. I would like to think our board are so quick to deny those clubs access to our facilities when they visit, maybe let them feel how our fans feel? No? Didn’t think so. Anyways - broadly agree with that point.

Will take issue with some other things there.

You’re not sure what people expect? Maybe for the club to have a wee think about what it CAN do for some fans rather than just pulling the shutters down. Considering the amount the fans have helped the club over the last couple of years, I would have thought an opportunity to get some much needed goodwill from a supporter base who have already suffered more than most these last couple of seasons. It should be an absolute last resort to exclude opportunity for any fans to attend games. Full stop. But the recurring attitude these last few seasons is that it feels like fans should just pipe down and get on with what the club decides, like we are an inconvenience to them.

This “that’s the way it is” approach is exactly the kind of chat that one by one by one tips folk over the edge from being a fan to a passing customer. And that’s exactly what a lot of folk have started doing - when it comes to supporting the club, they’re now passing. Declining attendances, decreased revenues throughout commercial activity and declining social media interest.

I get that times are tough and this is a kick in the hawmaws for the club and folk are trying their best - but when it comes to it, this club for all its rhetoric doesn’t half sometimes completely miss the point and likes to give the paying supporter a right good kick in the stones themselves.

To quote the clubs very own marketing campaign from 7th June on Facebook.

“It’s not home without you”.*

* = except when you are a clear hinderance to us, terms and conditions apply.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 16:50

As I suggested above, why not address your comments to the SLO? No one on here can deal with them.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 16:52

Very eloquently put Parsman1885. 👏👏
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 17:00

Wee eck. I will do that separately. I’m also well aware that no one on this site can “deal with them”, but this IS a discussion forum.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: MDCCCLXXXV  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 17:19

If there is going to be a draw for ST holders, how do I go about not putting my name in the hat.

East End Park is a symbol of all that is DAFC.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: brian  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 17:35

I am very sure the club have thought about it very seriously.

you missed my point about futher matches being postponed, perhaps the club had an idea and looked at the best way forward should the game be called off.

I have no idea, I am just surmising.

I also take the point you can`t please everybody all the time, no matter how harsh that seems

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 18:41

Look I get the point how hard it is, its a rotten state of affairs.

The point about postponement I understand u now, apologies. Still think the club took a particular view without properly thinking what’s right for the supporters. Which for me has been a pretty recurring theme. Cest la vie.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: ParfectXI  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 19:07

I wonder if the SPFL will show some sense and allow the matches to be played at some other point or go down the route of whoever has the outbreak gets a 3-0 against them?

If they go down the 2nd route then it brings a whole different perception to not having any fans in the ground for the games - properly minimising any outside contact for the team (we really aren’t in a position to give away 3 points)

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Fri 24 Dec 21:57

The 3-0 thing was only agreed for the league cup, games will be replayed under current rules.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Taxipar  
Date:   Sat 25 Dec 11:50

Think it’s the correct decision by the club 500 fans and the other 2500 fans can’t go. Plus what if a family of 4 or 5 has season tickets and enter a ballot and only 2 gets picked is that fair!! Nobody like the SG decision but we have to go with it

A par since 1985
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 25 Dec 12:09

Quote:

Taxipar, Sat 25 Dec 11:50

Think it’s the correct decision by the club 500 fans and the other 2500 fans can’t go. Plus what if a family of 4 or 5 has season tickets and enter a ballot and only 2 gets picked is that fair!! Nobody like the SG decision but we have to go with it


Why do we have to go with it? And if a family of 5 have season tickets and only 1 is drawn then this is the way.

It`s no Disneyland it`s only Dunfermline v Arbroath FFS. I`m sure whoever is unlucky not to be drawn will get over it quite quickly.

1885 sums up my feelings perfectly. I'm seriously p1ssed off with this. After 37 years supporting the club I've never felt more detached from them than I do right now.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"

Post Edited (Sat 25 Dec 12:12)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Sat 25 Dec 15:45

Quote:

Taxipar, Sat 25 Dec 11:50

Think it’s the correct decision by the club 500 fans and the other 2500 fans can’t go. Plus what if a family of 4 or 5 has season tickets and enter a ballot and only 2 gets picked is that fair!! Nobody like the SG decision but we have to go with it


Yeah, but we`re not going with the government`s decision are we? If we were then 500 Pars fans would be able to go tomorrow and we wouldn`t be having this debate.

As for the family situation, that`s easily resolved. It just needs a bit of imagination and a can-do attitude.

Is it any wonder we are where we we are in the league with this level of defeatism running through the club from the boardroom to so many on here?

On the other hand, maybe Peter Grant`s team of signings who`ve never played in front of a crowd before will finally be allowed to shine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: steaua  
Date:   Sat 25 Dec 20:06

The enemy here is NOT DAFC or The Scottish Government , it is the PANDEMIC. i am really happy we have people who are taking our Nation`s well being first and foremost . AND please top all this crap against the football club, they are doing ok .

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Sat 25 Dec 21:52

Quote:

steaua, Sat 25 Dec 20:06

The enemy here is NOT DAFC or The Scottish Government , it is the PANDEMIC. i am really happy we have people who are taking our Nation`s well being first and foremost . AND please top all this crap against the football club, they are doing ok .


The enemy is Sturgeon and her stupid unscientific rhetoric
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Sat 25 Dec 22:14

It`s not `crap` to say you disagree with a decision, and how you feel about it.

Everyone is entitled to their own view and I think it`s been a good discussion in the main, with by far the majority of the comments being respectful, even towards viewpoints we might strongly disagree with. Probably the best discussion on this forum for some time.

I`ve been trying very hard not to use emotive language, but I have to say I`m struggling. I don`t think I`m particularly demanding - although I`ll absolutely call out terrible displays on the park when they happen, the Pars are my team and I`ve never considered giving up on the club during times when things are not going well. However, this feels different. It actually feels hurtful. The club I have supported continuously for more than 30 years makes a statement and includes the line "A restricted crowd of 500, which is also subject to a 1 metre social distance, is actually worse than a closed door event". I still find that astonishing. It says that it`s worse to have some of the people who paid for these games in the ground than none.

When the time comes to renew next summer, I know that I almost certainly will. I`m fortunate that I have the means to see my team almost every week home and away, though it`s the one and only extravagence in my life. I want to keep doing it because it`s the one thing that my Dad and I are both still able to do together. But, this hasn`t half rocked how I feel towards my football club. And if others feel similarly but have a more difficult financial choice to make in the summer, it might not be good news.

I know some people just don`t like hearing anything negative or critical directed towards the club they support, especially publicly, and I get that. However, I think you should listen to this, and not dismiss it. This is not an irrational, unconsidered rant. This is not people having a go without considering how it might be from the perspective of those making the decision. For me this goes to the core of what it is to be a football fan - the simple act of being able to go and watch our team.

No, still not impressed, still scunnered with it.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: steaua  
Date:   Sat 25 Dec 22:17

That`s right blame Nicola Sturgeon. From the start of the pandemic I am sure she has had Pandemic professional people working in the Scottish Government, and is taking professional advice from these said people. Thank the Lord we have had her leading our Country.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 00:21

Steaua.

Your loyalty to the club and your political party are to be commended.

But you can’t just swipe away criticism of the club and their behaviours as just “crap” and it has to stop.

The club absolutely deserves criticism when it does things that people think are awful. I think what they’ve done about fans is absolutely awful. Others don’t. Matter of opinion.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 00:35

I think in this era of social media and polarised black/white (pardon the pun) opinions it`s really important to retain the ability to change your mind on things. And Socks has changed my mind on this.

I can understand the short notice of tomorrow but we should be facilitating a few hundred fans for Caley to reward a small proportion of fans who have funded the club with season tickets during pretty bleak times both on and off the field.

I`ll always err on cutting the board slack given how difficult it is running a business at the best of times, let alone how torturous it must be to run an under performing football club during a pandemic, but I think they`re wrong on this for the reasons Socks outlines.

I think the club needs help with the way they communicate.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 01:43

Socks is absolutely entitled to state his views, which he has done respectfully, cogently and IMO persuasively.

Given the awful timing it`s understandable why the Arbroath match is behind closed doors. And there could be a whole tranche of reasons and a watertight case why the club was right to decide immediately that no fans would be allowed into the Inverness game as well - but so far those reasons have not been disclosed and therefore (IMO) the case has not been made. There will be "known unknowns" (staff availability, IT/ticket issues, etc) and probably "unknown unknowns" that the club is concerned about.

Like Rusty I am very reluctant to criticise the Board, particularly when not in possession of all the facts - I have some idea of how much effort on a daily basis the Board members put into running the club, and I am absolutely sure any decision was taken in what they thought was the club`s best interests, and was not meant to be a disregard of the fanbase. Their preferred solution of a mid-season break had been rejected by the other Championship clubs so I can understand why a quick decision was made to simply have no fans present.

But other clubs (some larger than DAFC, some smaller) seem determined to achieve something for their fans, which suggests the problems are not insuperable if the will is there - DAFC is an outlier in this. It`s not beyond the bounds of possibility that the Covid restrictions will be extended until the end of January at least, so an action plan is needed for that eventuality.

Even with the short time left before kick-off on Wednesday it should be possible to put in place a quick and dirty scheme, which could be improved for later matches.

For example, and probably someone can come up with better ideas:

- Only the Main Stand needs to be open, with successful disabled fans using the platform in front of the Main Stand. (This assumes the ticket system allows Norrie and NW Stand ST holders access to the Main Stand.)
- Any unauthorised access by an unsuccessful ST holder would result in their ST being cancelled for 3 games.
- Possibly an email "ticket" could be sent before the match and checked manually, but that is labour-intensive and only a last resort.
- DAFC staff to do a quick ballot of ST holders and get a list of 500 "winners" plus a reserve list of 100 (depending if official match attendees are counted in the 500).
- A handful of volunteers to make phone calls between Monday and Wednesday, no more than two calls to anyone, with failure to answer or to confirm attendance losing the spot to someone on the reserve list.
- Volunteers would use their own phones, with any costs reclaimed from DAFC.
- Fans would have to accept that the calls could be at any time of day.
- if that is all still too difficult in the time, then instead of a ballot and phone calls, the first 500 ST numbers on the system should be allowed entry and the numbers published - very harsh and unfair and fewer than 500 would actually attend, but at least some recognition would be made of fans' importance.

Even if the Inverness match is postponed due to their Covid situation it would be good to see DAFC come into line with other clubs and plan to allow fans to attend any match when they have already paid for their season ticket and there is no Government advice to the contrary.





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Post Edited (Sun 26 Dec 08:15)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: The moose  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 05:02

Quote:

steaua, Sat 25 Dec 22:17

That`s right blame Nicola Sturgeon. From the start of the pandemic I am sure she has had Pandemic professional people working in the Scottish Government, and is taking professional advice from these said people. Thank the Lord we have had her leading our Country.


That`s why she sold social care staff down the river with the 2% pay rise she awarded them.

BCM

Post Edited (Sun 26 Dec 05:05)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 06:51

I agree with Socks that this thread has seen many posters expressing their views in a polite, reasoned and persuasive manner, none more so than the man himself.

Like Rusty, I have been persuaded by Socks` argument that the club could and should have put something in place at least for the Inverness game on Wednesday. The only plausible reason I can think of for not making any arrangements is that directors were aware that there was a Covid outbreak in the ICT squad and that there was little or no prospect of the game going ahead on the 29th. Obviously, this knowledge would not have been something the Pars would want to make public - that`s the responsibility of ICT.

Even if the game is called off now, some damage to the club`s relationship with its supporters will have been done, which is regrettable. Mistakes have been made, we all make them. It`s perfectly reasonable for fans like Socks to point these out and hope that those running our club take note. I hope we can all come round to forgive, but not forget, these mistakes. The important thing is to learn from any mistakes, so they are not repeated.



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Sun 26 Dec 06:52)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Angus_W  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 08:32

"A restricted crowd of 500, which is also subject to a 1 metre social distance, is actually worse than a closed door event".


My take on that that statement is purely financial. Ie - On a game that the club were going to make money on due to a larger Xmas gate, they are potentially going to loose revenue due to restrictions on attendance numbers. EEP will be > 5% full but we will still incur the running costs of the game.

Why should the club take the financial hit when they have an alternative of minimum costs & fans can still watch the game?

How do we make up the lost revenue? Potentially money for January loans.

What happened to “We are all in this together”.

I agree with the clubs decision………..

“.........your on mute Jordan” 😀
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 08:36

I think the descision was a bad one and along with other statements alinating the fans certainly does not show a compassion towards the loyal fanbase from the BoD.

This has caused damage and hopefully the BoD will realise this and when they meet today discuss and explain why the fans are not at the centre of their decission making, afterall are we not the lifeblood of the club.

It will be intresting to see who is allowed into the game today!



Post Edited (Sun 26 Dec 08:37)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 08:48

Pointing fingers gets you nowhere.

Nicola Sturgeon may lead this country but she acts on the basis of advice from professionals. These professionals are actually experienced in health protection, unlike most people on this forum!

Yes, it`s frustrating. Yes, you may not agree. But getting angry and blaming people won`t get us anywhere. "It is what it is" so let`s get on with it.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 08:49

Quote:

GG Riva, Sun 26 Dec 06:51

I agree with Socks that this thread has seen many posters expressing their views in a polite, reasoned and persuasive manner, none more so than the man himself.

The only plausible reason I can think of for not making any arrangements is that directors were aware that there was a Covid outbreak in the ICT squad and that there was little or no prospect of the game going ahead on the 29th. Obviously, this knowledge would not have been something the Pars would want to make public - that`s the responsibility of ICT.


And perhaps preliminary discussions were/are already underway with ICT to move the game to the next Scottish Cup weekend, as someone on this forum suggested earlier. ICT have already gone public on the practical problems of players being unable to use the team bus or shower post-match due to Covid.

Quote:

I hope we can all come round to forgive, but not forget, these mistakes. The important thing is to learn from any mistakes, so they are not repeated.


This.

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Post Edited (Sun 26 Dec 08:50)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 09:26

Did anyone take up the suggestion of raising the matter with the SLO, Drew Main? If so, it would be interesting to know what he had to say.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: arpar  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 10:16

Quote:

Angus_W, Sun 26 Dec 08:32

"A restricted crowd of 500, which is also subject to a 1 metre social distance, is actually worse than a closed door event".


My take on that that statement is purely financial. Ie - On a game that the club were going to make money on due to a larger Xmas gate, they are potentially going to loose revenue due to restrictions on attendance numbers. EEP will be > 5% full but we will still incur the running costs of the game.

Why should the club take the financial hit when they have an alternative of minimum costs & fans can still watch the game?

How do we make up the lost revenue? Potentially money for January loans.

What happened to “We are all in this together”.

I agree with the clubs decision………..


This statement is not true though. 500 fans paying at the gate would not cost the club money. Season ticket holders have already paid but I feel there taking that revenue for granted to a certain extent.
Yes you don`t want to have a stand open to accommodate 500 fans but in this case I think they should have done it as your regular fans are what makes the club.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 10:43

Quote:

Rusty Shackleford, Sun 26 Dec 00:35

I think in this era of social media and polarised black/white (pardon the pun) opinions it`s really important to retain the ability to change your mind on things. And Socks has changed my mind on this.

I can understand the short notice of tomorrow but we should be facilitating a few hundred fans for Caley to reward a small proportion of fans who have funded the club with season tickets during pretty bleak times both on and off the field.

I`ll always err on cutting the board slack given how difficult it is running a business at the best of times, let alone how torturous it must be to run an under performing football club during a pandemic, but I think they`re wrong on this for the reasons Socks outlines.

I think the club needs help with the way they communicate.


Absolutely bang on Rusty.

These type of situations, are where people should benefit from being a session ticket holder....
While if I missed out in a ballot I`d be disappointed, I`d still rather the club did this and I had had the chance, rather than a blanket no.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: auldpar  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 11:12

Regardless of your political affiliations, how come it`s OK for Boxing Day sales to go ahead as usual? Crowds of people indoors, travelling to shopping centres, queuing, using toilets, food outlets etc. Looks like discrimination to me.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 11:35

Whilst I can understand the clubs decision I also understand those who are against it

What I can say is that I will be very disappointed if I see the directors box full when watching on TV, closed doors should mean closed doors to everyone

If fans are not allowed to attend then those who run the club should not be treated differently

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 11:36

"These type of situations, are where people should benefit from being a session ticket holder....
While if I missed out in a ballot I`d be disappointed, I`d still rather the club did this and I had had the chance, rather than a blanket no."

If the club allows fans to attend ST holders should get preference, that`s a given IMO.

Following on from that then families with multiple STs should be given first priority in rank order of how many STs they have purchased.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 11:40

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 26 Dec 11:36

"These type of situations, are where people should benefit from being a session ticket holder....
While if I missed out in a ballot I`d be disappointed, I`d still rather the club did this and I had had the chance, rather than a blanket no."

If the club allows fans to attend ST holders should get preference, that`s a given IMO.

Following on from that then families with multiple STs should be given first priority in rank order of how many STs they have purchased.


B0ll0cks

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 11:42

Quote:

1970par, Sun 26 Dec 11:35

Whilst I can understand the clubs decision I also understand those who are against it

What I can say is that I will be very disappointed if I see the directors box full when watching on TV, closed doors should mean closed doors to everyone

If fans are not allowed to attend then those who run the club should not be treated differently


Don’t be silly, Directors have a legal responsibility to manage the club including all operational tasks. What if the manager takes ill?
Player seriously injured requiring on field issue?
Stadium issue?

Directors and match day staff have to attend games.

Ballot should have been done for the 500 though
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 11:49

“Topic Originator: 1970par like
Date: Sun 26 Dec 11:35

Whilst I can understand the clubs decision I also understand those who are against it

What I can say is that I will be very disappointed if I see the directors box full when watching on TV, closed doors should mean closed doors to everyone

If fans are not allowed to attend then those who run the club should not be treated differently“



I remember clearly Ross’ words at the supporters forum about how awful it was watching a game behind closed doors. “It was horrendous and I can’t honestly say while some thought it might have been a privilege for us being there, it was soulless. I don’t ever want us to be in that position again”.

I imagine his (and the boards) feelings haven’t changed, but even more surprising that they were so quick to pull the shutters down on the fans.

It’s done now, but a wound will need to be catered to by the board following this.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 11:59

If a director needs to present to deal with issues fair enough, that dosent mean they should all be there though

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 12:11

"B0ll0cks"

That`s a persuasive argument.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 13:15

It`s not so much the Director`s being there that would bother me it the hangers on.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 13:20

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 26 Dec 12:11

"B0ll0cks"

That`s a persuasive argument.


If you actually take the time to read through the thread you`ll see quite clearly my thoughts on this subject.

Come back to me in April when you're still watching the team you claim to support on a laptop in your front room.

Some of us would rather speak up now and voice our opinions on this ridiculous decision than just sit on our hands letting the club walk all over us.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"

Post Edited (Sun 26 Dec 13:23)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 13:35

So has no one actually contacted the club? I would find that quite surprising given the strength of feeling expressed by so many on this thread.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 13:43

Quote:

da_no_1, Sun 26 Dec 13:20

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 26 Dec 12:11

"B0ll0cks"

That`s a persuasive argument.


If you actually take the time to read through the thread you`ll see quite clearly my thoughts on this subject.

Come back to me in April when you`re still watching the team you claim to support on a laptop in your front room.

Some of us would rather speak up now and voice our opinions on this ridiculous decision than just sit on our hands letting the club walk all over us.


What thread ? I must have missed that.

After 60 years of regular following - long before the laptop, and spare us your sanctimonious judgements.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 13:53

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 26 Dec 13:43

Quote:

da_no_1, Sun 26 Dec 13:20

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 26 Dec 12:11

"B0ll0cks"

That`s a persuasive argument.


If you actually take the time to read through the thread you`ll see quite clearly my thoughts on this subject.

Come back to me in April when you`re still watching the team you claim to support on a laptop in your front room.

Some of us would rather speak up now and voice our opinions on this ridiculous decision than just sit on our hands letting the club walk all over us.


What thread ? I must have missed that.

After 60 years of regular following - long before the laptop, and spare us your sanctimonious judgements.


Yes you have missed it. Try reading back thro this thread.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 13:53

Forget it


Post Edited (Sun 26 Dec 13:54)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: SeasonedPar  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 13:59

Some interesting points and a decent discussion on what`s a very tough call for any Board.

I`ve re-read the Board statement, and I`m pretty sure the last thing they wanted to do was alienate any section of our support.

"The health of everyone in our local community, and the wider country is without question the most important thing that we must consider" - as a starting point, it explains why the decision to have no fans in the stadium was taken and the whole statement must be read with that sentence in mind..

The club are responsible for the care and welfare of all employees, players, non-playing staff like hospitality, stewards, and ticket offices and having no fans at this difficult time of Omicron shows the take their job of care and welfare seriously.

Loss of revenue from no fans is weighed up with the stadium costs of having fans present. From the statement, it sounds like hospitality is postponed, meaning supplies wasted and more costs without income to cover.

They could`ve mentioned the huge financial difficulties of the last 18 months, the cost of terminating Peter Grant`s contract, or the expectations of fans that Yogi will have a budget to bring in new faces (much needed) in January. So, watching the pennies even more crucial atm.

All in all, a difficult but balanced decision, taking a big number of variables into account. I`m off to watch on PPV and wish all Pars fans everywhere a happy xmas and a good new year. As Pars fans, we deserve that!

Post Edited (Sun 26 Dec 14:16)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 14:17

"Yes you have missed it. Try reading back thro this thread."

Looks like you didn`t read through what I had said earlier.

Your position in essence is that a family of 5 STs should have the same chance as a single ST holder, and only get 1 ticket in the lucky dip.

If you accept that ST holders should take priority over PATG fans, which is totally fair, in my opinion, then it follows (again in my view) that a multiple ST group should have preference ahead of a single ST buyer.

Therefore the family/families of 5 should get their five tickets first, then a family of 4 to receive four and so on.

Once these calculations are made then the aggregated total is deducted from the 500 "chosen few" and thereafter single ST holders get a chance in a random draw.

That maintains the mindset that those who have contributed the most financially to the club get priority consideration.



Post Edited (Sun 26 Dec 14:20)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 14:33

You really are over complicating this.

A family of 5 will get 5 entries in to the draw. A family of 4 will get 4. I`ll get 1.

If your precious family of 5 only get 1 ticket then tough.

Like I said I`m sure the little kiddies will not talk in years to come of the terrible boxing day when they missed the Arbroath home game.

Anyway I`ve had enough. Enjoy the game.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 14:55

Agreed, no case for child deprivation in this scenario.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 15:53

At least the players will not get booed off.

matt forsyth
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Murphy  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 16:52

So glad I wasn’t at EEP today in the freezing cold watching that guff.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 16:55

A big vote of thanks due to the board ,stopping 500 fans having to suffer that utter dross.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 17:34

Or maybe the players would have performed better with fans there demanding a bit more….

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: k76  
Date:   Sun 26 Dec 21:28

Great call by the BOD.

Out played and out thought the whole game, no boos.

At least we could switch off when we wanted.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Mon 27 Dec 01:32

“Topic Originator: wee eck like
Date: Sun 26 Dec 13:35

So has no one actually contacted the club? I would find that quite surprising given the strength of feeling expressed by so many on this thread.”


Yes I did contact the club, as I expected I got zero response.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Kaiser Chief  
Date:   Mon 27 Dec 09:17

^^^ Can I ask who you tried to contact DulochConvert?
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Mon 27 Dec 15:03

I take it that there has been no change of mind from the BoD for the Caley game.

Kaiser as SLO did the BoD consult you and have you fed the coments by the fans back into the BoD, if so what was their response.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Kaiser Chief  
Date:   Mon 27 Dec 15:17

I am also on the BoD as well as being SLO so was involved in the decision making process as always.

I have received one email of complaint on this and responded to it earlier this afternoon.

Just to add balance, I also received one email in support of playing the games behind closed doors.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: CrossPar  
Date:   Mon 27 Dec 16:23

Quote:

Kaiser Chief, Mon 27 Dec 15:17

I am also on the BoD as well as being SLO so was involved in the decision making process as always.

I have received one email of complaint on this and responded to it earlier this afternoon.

Just to add balance, I also received one email in support of playing the games behind closed doors.


Just because you have only had one email of complaint, doesn`t mean there is only one person unhappy with the decision. It may however reflect the apathy that has set in after many years of suffering bad decisions. Are we the only club in Scotland to have taken this decision? What about all the lower league teams who barely scrape up 500 fans every week? They would be as well packing in based on our clubs philosophy.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Mon 27 Dec 16:25

Topic Originator: Kaiser Chief like
Date: Mon 27 Dec 15:17

I am also on the BoD as well as being SLO so was involved in the decision making process as always.

I have received one email of complaint on this and responded to it earlier this afternoon.

Just to add balance, I also received one email in support of playing the games behind closed doors.

Thanks for the clarification. I know you use this site regularly to awnser queries and promote inatives so given the level of diagreement on this the main Pars fans website and some well balanced points put forward was there ever any thought given to change the decission.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 27 Dec 18:54

Didn`t the board make a formal statement on the Arbroath and ICT matches ?

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: arpar  
Date:   Mon 27 Dec 18:56

Quote:

veteraneastender, Mon 27 Dec 18:54

Didn`t the board make a formal statement on the Arbroath and ICT matches ?


Yes it basically said we already have the money from the season tickets so why bother having 500 of them in the ground when we won`t make anymore money from them. They can just watch on Pars TV if they can login.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 27 Dec 20:00

The decision was made, rightly or wrongly, and reasons given, no amount of debate on its merits, or otherwise, will change things.

Register your dissatisfaction, let`s move on.



Post Edited (Mon 27 Dec 20:01)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 11:30

Us fans have no right to question the always impeccable decisions of the BOD, I was really angry that not only the directors (and guests as I don’t think we have that many directors) were at the Arbroath game but we could clearly see other club employees in the hospitality boxes

Perhaps the club shop needed to be open before the game so the BOD could make some post Christmas purchases, they obviously also needed to be greeted at the door on their arrival and the hospitality staff needed to be there to serve their pre match and half time refreshments

But hey as long as they are ok then why worry about the fans, I’m sorry but that was just rubbing our noses in it

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 11:59

1970par wrote:

> Us fans have no right to question the always impeccable
> decisions of the BOD, I was really angry that not only the
> directors (and guests as I don’t think we have that many
> directors) were at the Arbroath game but we could clearly see
> other club employees in the hospitality boxes
>
> Perhaps the club shop needed to be open before the game so the
> BOD could make some post Christmas purchases, they obviously
> also needed to be greeted at the door on their arrival and the
> hospitality staff needed to be there to serve their pre match
> and half time refreshments
>
> But hey as long as they are ok then why worry about the fans,
> I’m sorry but that was just rubbing our noses in it
>
>

You serious here? I didn’t watch the game so didn’t see who was there.

I can’t actually tell if you’re being serious or kidding so help a dafty like me out. 😆

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: parsfan97  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 12:08

Why would they care? We’ve already paid our money and since they can’t get anymore out of us, we are no longer any use to them. Makes the slogan on the session ticket campaign look stupid considering we are the only team to not try get fans in

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 12:22

Yes I’m serious

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 12:28

“Topic Originator: parsfan97 like
Date: Tue 28 Dec 12:08

Why would they care? We’ve already paid our money and since they can’t get anymore out of us, we are no longer any use to them. Makes the slogan on the session ticket campaign look stupid considering we are the only team to not try get fans in”

Oi - that’s my patter! 😂. “It’s no home without you.” 🙃

1970par, just looked at your profile and I know how much work you’ve done for the club, so that makes me really sad you feel that way. Bad enough me being a bit ranty and peed off, but when it’s someone like you who has worked really closely with the club, that says an awful lot 😟

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 15:53

So no response as to wheter there was a rethink for the ICT game. Pity we are not a fans focused community club or we would have thought about the fans.

They have our money so why worry shows what the BoD really think about us and I beleve this has caused damage to the fragile BoD and Fans relationship.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 16:12

It would appear that, despite the strength of feeling, only two fans contacted the SLO and board director, Drew Main, and one of those supported the decision. I`ve every sympathy with people being annoyed at the decision but I don`t understand why they didn`t contact him. Back in the day, when communication was a lot harder, I remember writing a letter to the chairman about my concerns and getting a personal response from him.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 16:32

wee eck wrote:

> It would appear that, despite the strength of feeling, only two
> fans contacted the SLO and board director, Drew Main, and one
> of those supported the decision. I`ve every sympathy with
> people being annoyed at the decision but I don`t understand why
> they didn`t contact him. Back in the day, when communication
> was a lot harder, I remember writing a letter to the chairman
> about my concerns and getting a personal response from him.
>
>

Maybe some folk didn’t want to bother him with a personal note knowing fine well that with him being part of the process, what’s the point? The reasons are there, but I still disagree with them. Thereby rendering it a waste of time in my opinion. Nothing the board or an SLO can say will change my mind about it, maybe that’s how a lot of folk feel.

Also he’s on this forum reading these posts. If the only measure of satisfaction/dissatisfaction the board take are personal emails and no notice anywhere else, then that says a hell of a lot more about them than it does about folk no writing emails… like those businesses you see on Gordon Ramsay with no one eating in the restaurant “but no one complains” they opine in front of 100 empty seats….

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: SergioDuarte  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 16:56

As per 1970par post I’m absolutely disgusted but not surprised. This board has a “f*ck um” mentality. Lock the fans out so their pals can have a jolly.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 17:02

Quote:

SergioDuarte, Tue 28 Dec 16:56

As per 1970par post I’m absolutely disgusted but not surprised. This board has a “f*ck um” mentality. Lock the fans out so their pals can have a jolly.


I`ve asked on the other thread where you`ve said this but you may have missed it. Who on the board is having their pals in?
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: SergioDuarte  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 17:07

Quote:

jake89, Tue 28 Dec 17:02

Quote:

SergioDuarte, Tue 28 Dec 16:56

As per 1970par post I’m absolutely disgusted but not surprised. This board has a “f*ck um” mentality. Lock the fans out so their pals can have a jolly.


I`ve asked on the other thread where you`ve said this but you may have missed it. Who on the board is having their pals in?


Pretty obvious is it not ? Don’t think I need to actually name them do I ? Who was at the game that isn’t a director or club employee?
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 17:20

`Maybe some folk didn’t want to bother him with a personal note knowing fine well that with him being part of the process, what’s the point? The reasons are there, but I still disagree with them. Thereby rendering it a waste of time in my opinion. Nothing the board or an SLO can say will change my mind about it, maybe that’s how a lot of folk feel.

Also he’s on this forum reading these posts. If the only measure of satisfaction/dissatisfaction the board take are personal emails and no notice anywhere else, then that says a hell of a lot more about them than it does about folk no writing emails… like those businesses you see on Gordon Ramsay with no one eating in the restaurant “but no one complains” they opine in front of 100 empty seats….`

That`s a complete cop-out in my opinion to state that nothing they could say would change your mind. Maybe you just don`t want to hear their point of view. If folk stop communicating with each other we`re screwed. It`s a two-way thing. Social media today allows folk to moan to no one in particular whilst expecting someone to react to it. You see it all the time on here.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: theparsman1885  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 17:45

wee eck wrote:

> `Maybe some folk didn’t want to bother him with a personal
> note knowing fine well that with him being part of the process,
> what’s the point? The reasons are there, but I still disagree
> with them. Thereby rendering it a waste of time in my opinion.
> Nothing the board or an SLO can say will change my mind about
> it, maybe that’s how a lot of folk feel.
>
> Also he’s on this forum reading these posts. If the only
> measure of satisfaction/dissatisfaction the board take are
> personal emails and no notice anywhere else, then that says a
> hell of a lot more about them than it does about folk no
> writing emails… like those businesses you see on Gordon
> Ramsay with no one eating in the restaurant “but no one
> complains” they opine in front of 100 empty seats….`
>
> That`s a complete cop-out in my opinion to state that nothing
> they could say would change your mind. Maybe you just don`t
> want to hear their point of view. If folk stop communicating
> with each other we`re screwed. It`s a two-way thing. Social
> media today allows folk to moan to no one in particular whilst
> expecting someone to react to it. You see it all the time on
> here.
>
>

Nah it’s not a cop out that’s you just trying to be provocative. Just because you disagree with my view.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: parsfan97  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 17:49

I’ve also heard that a certain director that owns a roofing company definitely had his pals in for the game v Arbroath. If true that’s an absolute disgrace imo.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 18:07

Quote:

parsfan97, Tue 28 Dec 17:49

I’ve also heard that a certain director that owns a roofing company definitely had his pals in for the game v Arbroath. If true that’s an absolute disgrace imo.


If he paid for the private box already then what`s the issue here? TBH, the probably wish they`d stayed at home!
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: parsfan97  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 18:09

The issue being that the game was supposed to be behind closed doors, or is it okay for anyone that’s pals with directors that get to go but the ordinary fan is locked out?

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: SergioDuarte  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 18:10

Quote:

jake89, Tue 28 Dec 18:07

Quote:

parsfan97, Tue 28 Dec 17:49

I’ve also heard that a certain director that owns a roofing company definitely had his pals in for the game v Arbroath. If true that’s an absolute disgrace imo.


If he paid for the private box already then what`s the issue here? TBH, the probably wish they`d stayed at home!


I think you are missing the point. Somewhat deliberately
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 18:15

If he paid for the private box already then what`s the issue here? TBH, the probably wish they`d stayed at home!

and this is different from a season ticket that has already been paid?

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 18:36

Quote:

parsfan97, Tue 28 Dec 17:49

I’ve also heard that a certain director that owns a roofing company definitely had his pals in for the game v Arbroath. If true that’s an absolute disgrace imo.


He’s been away at his sons wedding abroad and wasn’t at the game so that’s a complete lie. I know Fraser his youngest son and lies like this do nothing for our clubs fans.

I’d suggest you look again and come up with a name, who was in boxes? What Directors were present? I know factually that Braisby wasn’t….any of them

I’d like to know who was there that wasn’t a director that keeps getting referred too?

Post Edited (Tue 28 Dec 18:36)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 18:38

Quote:

parsfan97, Tue 28 Dec 18:09

The issue being that the game was supposed to be behind closed doors, or is it okay for anyone that’s pals with directors that get to go but the ordinary fan is locked out?


Hopefully you’ll tell us your sources as they are pure liars. Your no better. See my post below….
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 18:41

Quote:

wee eck, Tue 28 Dec 16:12

It would appear that, despite the strength of feeling, only two fans contacted the SLO and board director, Drew Main, and one of those supported the decision. I`ve every sympathy with people being annoyed at the decision but I don`t understand why they didn`t contact him. Back in the day, when communication was a lot harder, I remember writing a letter to the chairman about my concerns and getting a personal response from him.


What`s the difference between personally emailing him (Drew) and respectfully posting my thoughts on here where we know he visits Eck?

Presumably he can read and process what`s been written.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 18:48

`Nah it’s not a cop out that’s you just trying to be provocative. Just because you disagree with my view.`

Who am I trying to provoke? I said earlier in the thread I had sympathy with those who were annoyed by the decision. I just can`t understand why so few contacted the club through official channels.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: parsfan97  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 18:57

Well that wedding wasn’t abroad so your talking absolute rubbish, seen Cardles post who was at the wedding and it wasn’t abroad, so think your better getting your source straight first. Also, it was the lifeline chairman and the ex lifeline chairman who were in the box along with them



Post Edited (Tue 28 Dec 19:10)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 19:11

Quote:

parsfan97, Tue 28 Dec 18:57

Well that wedding wasn’t abroad so your talking absolute rubbish, seen Cardles post who was at the wedding and it wasn’t abroad, so think your better getting your source straight first. Also, it was the chairman and the lifeline chairman who were in the box along with them



Post Edited (Tue 28 Dec 19:04)


The wedding was in Edinburgh but the family is away together after fact. Again rubbish re the Chairman and lifeline, why not send the lifeline chairman a private message and ask where he was? Certainly wasn’t EEP on Saturday. All FACT

Look forward to hearing your source as it genuinely is a pack of lies….I know them both personally and neither were near EEP on Saturday. Can’t wait for you to back this up 😀

Post Edited (Tue 28 Dec 19:12)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: parsfan97  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 19:25

I have my source too who I believe too so let’s just leave it there, ex lifeline chairman shouldn’t be anywhere near the club in the first place, especially if we are a community and family club

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 19:28

Quote:

parsfan97, Tue 28 Dec 19:25

I have my source too who I believe too so let’s just leave it there, ex lifeline chairman shouldn’t be anywhere near the club in the first place, especially if we are a community and family club


No let’s not leave it there as that suits you. Back up your lies? There’s plenty of stills of the boxes, why not grab one???

I know both current and ex chairman, none of them were at the game. Your a liar and have been called out.

Prove it. I can, as we speak one of them is obtaining a log in to make you look stupid. Each and every post will now be discredited as you’ll be proven to be a liar posting made up rubbish.

Hopefully you do the right thing and retract your post.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 19:36

Ah good a member of the board is obtaining a log in, no need to send e mails then as that will be at least 2 members of the board with log in`s.

We might get a decent awnser as to why there was no re think on the Fans Lockout for the ICT game then.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 19:37

Quote:

Par, Tue 28 Dec 19:36

Ah good a member of the board is obtaining a log in, no need to send e mails then as that will be at least 2 members of the board with log in`s.

We might get a decent awnser as to why there was no re think on the Fans Lockout for the ICT game then.


None of said people are anywhere near the board I mention.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 19:41

`What`s the difference between personally emailing him (Drew) and respectfully posting my thoughts on here where we know he visits Eck?

Presumably he can read and process what`s been written.`

Drew actually said he would welcome e-mails (Fri 24 Dec 15:18). I can understand why he might not want to conduct a dialogue on a public forum.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 19:51

Quote:

wee eck, Tue 28 Dec 19:41

`What`s the difference between personally emailing him (Drew) and respectfully posting my thoughts on here where we know he visits Eck?

Presumably he can read and process what`s been written.`

Drew actually said he would welcome e-mails (Fri 24 Dec 15:18). I can understand why he might not want to conduct a dialogue on a public forum.


Yeah fair enough. I just didn`t and don`t see the point.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 19:52

Quote:

parsfan97, Tue 28 Dec 19:25

I have my source too who I believe too so let’s just leave it there, ex lifeline chairman shouldn’t be anywhere near the club in the first place, especially if we are a community and family club


You`re having an absolute nightmare on here. Please stop

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 20:26

Quote:

jake89, Tue 28 Dec 18:07

Quote:

parsfan97, Tue 28 Dec 17:49

I’ve also heard that a certain director that owns a roofing company definitely had his pals in for the game v Arbroath. If true that’s an absolute disgrace imo.


If he paid for the private box already then what`s the issue here? TBH, the probably wish they`d stayed at home!


Surely the fact we`ve all paid for our season tickets already is the issue here?
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 20:36

Fair enough if people consider it an issue but a director who`s got a box having a pal along doesn`t seem a big deal. Though it sounds like the alleged director wasn`t even there! People seem to have a real issue with Braisby. I`m sure he`s partly to blame for the awful appointment of Peter Grant but then the whole board is!
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 20:43

It’s clearly not right if anyone was there that didn’t need to be there




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: k76  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 20:47

No fans means NO fans regardless if you have a private box. Getting ‘pals’ into games is part of the corporate entertainment but when the club bans season ticket holder’s then allows ‘friends’ to attend for free is totally unacceptable.

BOD seem intent on alienating the fan base from the privileged few.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 20:48

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Tue 28 Dec 20:43

It’s clearly not right if anyone was there that didn’t need to be there


I’ve already said neither of the guys spoken about were there. I’m friends with a friend and both are finding this whole thing a joke and embarrassing.

There’s threads on mental health and people are telling complete lies and bright gets done. This website is a disgrace at times.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 20:49

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Tue 28 Dec 20:43

It’s clearly not right if anyone was there that didn’t need to be there


Good job you got your mic sorted then 😁.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 20:49

Quote:

k76, Tue 28 Dec 20:47

No fans means NO fans regardless if you have a private box. Getting ‘pals’ into games is part of the corporate entertainment but when the club bans season ticket holder’s then allows ‘friends’ to attend for free is totally unacceptable.

BOD seem intent on alienating the fan base from the privileged few.


Post Edited (Wed 29 Dec 01:39)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 20:59

Agree it`s not right, but it doesn`t feel like a big deal in the grand scheme of things, especially if it never actually happened.

Directors are no different to any Pars fan. Yes, they invest more but fans spend money too and it`s all through choice. I`m sure plenty fans take the pee a bit at times. No fans loaned their season ticket to a pal when they`re on holiday? Never lifted over the turnstiles as a younger (thinking of the older fans here!)?

What`s disturbing is the suggestion directors are regularly breaking/bending the rules. If this is true then it should be followed up. However, there doesn`t appear to be any evidence, just people throwing allegations around. Braisby in particular seems to get it tight.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 20:59

Quote:

JamesAndrew74, Tue 28 Dec 20:48

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Tue 28 Dec 20:43

It’s clearly not right if anyone was there that didn’t need to be there


I’ve already said neither of the guys spoken about were there. I’m friends with a friend and both are finding this whole thing a joke and embarrassing.

There’s threads on mental health and people are telling complete lies and bright gets done. This website is a disgrace at times.


That was just a general comment.




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: JamesAndrew74  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 21:04

Quote:

jake89, Tue 28 Dec 20:59

Agree it`s not right, but it doesn`t feel like a big deal in the grand scheme of things, especially if it never actually happened.

Directors are no different to any Pars fan. Yes, they invest more but fans spend money too and it`s all through choice. I`m sure plenty fans take the pee a bit at times. No fans loaned their season ticket to a pal when they`re on holiday? Never lifted over the turnstiles as a younger (thinking of the older fans here!)?

What`s disturbing is the suggestion directors are regularly breaking/bending the rules. If this is true then it should be followed up. However, there doesn`t appear to be any evidence, just people throwing allegations around. Braisby in particular seems to get it tight.


Being honest when you see the stick Ross McArthur took it’s a lot lighter. I’m only sticking up for the lads named as I know beyond doubt they weren’t at the game and no rules or liberties were taken. I don’t know the directors personally but I’ve had dealings with a few at events and stuff.

Ross and Bill actually seem to stick out for doing more than most and making people welcome. Everyone will have opinions but when there passed as fact that’s not right.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: brian  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 22:02

forget it, no point in arguing.





Post Edited (Tue 28 Dec 22:09)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: helensburghpar  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 22:18



Post Edited (Tue 28 Dec 22:33)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Kyle DAFC  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 23:37

“ Fair enough if people consider it an issue but a director who`s got a box having a pal along doesn`t seem a big deal. Though it sounds like the alleged director wasn`t even there! People seem to have a real issue with Braisby. I`m sure he`s partly to blame for the awful appointment of Peter Grant but then the whole board is”

I don’t think the issue some people have with the Braisbys is to do with their footballing decisions….


I must admit the meltdown from James Andrew had been quite entertaining to watch, a personal highlight for me was when he claimed someone was obtaining a login to prove some posters wrong, you honestly couldn’t write this forum at times.

“To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.”
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: arpar  
Date:   Tue 28 Dec 23:46

If they were going to get 500 fans in paying at the gate they would have opened a stand and facilitated that no problem. To treat season ticket holders money any different just because its paid up in advance was an error imo. One of the reasons people may have bought a season ticket this year was for this very scenario where crowds would be limited and season tickets would get priority access.

ETA

I'm not trying to be harsh on the BOD here but I think there are lessons to be learned.

1. This scenario should have been planned for as it was always a posability.
2. The good will of season ticket holders should be hoped for but not relied on.

Imagine if there was no season ticket holders and everyone paid at the gate every week. Do you think the decision not to open for 500 fans would have been the same?

I think the board do have the best interests of the club at heart and they are only human. I certainly don't think it was an easy decision for them and overall they give up their time to benefit the club so hats off to them.

Post Edited (Wed 29 Dec 00:27)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 08:26

I completely agree arpar

I also agreed with an earlier poster who used a kitchen nightmares example and the “nobody complains” argument whilst standing in an empty restaurant - questioning the logic of using the written complaints as a measure of customer satisfaction and feeling (I mean who writes strongly worded letters anymore when a twenty second social media / forum post gets your point across?!?)

The reason they resonated is that I actually said to my wife the other day that I’ll probably not bother getting an ST next year as they’re not really offering ‘value’ over a more ‘pick and mix’ games approach; there’s also 3 or 4 free seats at the side of me each game, so getting my spot isn’t going to be an issue anytime soon.

So no I’m not going to write a letter, but yes the culmination of a few things, some in dafc’s control (eg poor veggie / cashless catering options), some to do with the overall experience (eg prospect of sitting outside for c. 2 hours in the cold with my poor circulation and going home with numb/sore hands and feet - summer football please!), some to do with the cost versus the level of football being played, some to do with other competing interests for me and the family that actually offer a more fun and enjoyable overall experience and TBH the recent (IMHO) misjudgment on a ballot that would demonstrate the club is doing all they can for their supporters is a factor my current view.

Post Edited (Wed 29 Dec 08:28)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: hudza  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 08:54

Good post arpar.
Was the exact reason I renewed was the potential to minimise crowds/availability to just Season ticket holders. Doubt I’ll be renewing next year

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 09:44

The Hamilton game is going to fall within this period also, so 1500 fans would have had the oppurtunity to attend one of these games.

I can`t understand the attitude of the BoD not to review this descission, given every other team is catering for it`s fans. Weak arguments about not receiving e mails, read the opionons on here, which no doubt they are but can`t be bothered to put them self out for the fans.

Terrible attitude and I can undestand fans not renewing their season tickets next year if there is no benifit.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 10:06

Folk on here with a complaint always assume that the views expressed on here are representative of the support as a whole but there`s no evidence that they are. It`s pretty obvious that social media generally attracts critical opinions and that`s also true of this forum. You just need to compare the volume of traffic on here after a bad result with the volume after a good one to see that.

So why should the board use this forum as a barometer of the overall feeling of the support and respond accordingly? I would think they`d be much more likely to react to direct communications to them.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: AJ27  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 10:15

If the board think direct communication to them is the best barometer of the opinion of season ticket holders then they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Surely the fact that we are the only club in the country not allowing fans in tells them something. I hope they’ll be embarrassed on Sunday seeing the Raith Rovers fans shouting on their team.

Andy J
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 10:21

They should be using more than “direct communications” to bring themselves into the world of their fans because it’s evident this season more than any they are way out of touch.
It’s unfair and immoral to ask fans for their support in the summer, to which around 2000 did in the way of a season ticket for the club to then say despite restrictions none of you are getting a seat. The club are taking liberties with their own loyal fans, plainly wrong.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Parca_Par  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 10:29

Surely the board will make the right decision for the Hamilton match….
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 10:51

Quote:

wee eck, Wed 29 Dec 10:06

Folk on here with a complaint always assume that the views expressed on here are representative of the support as a whole but there`s no evidence that they are. It`s pretty obvious that social media generally attracts critical opinions and that`s also true of this forum. You just need to compare the volume of traffic on here after a bad result with the volume after a good one to see that.

So why should the board use this forum as a barometer of the overall feeling of the support and respond accordingly? I would think they`d be much more likely to react to direct communications to them.


There`s no evidence either way, tbf, eck. While I agree that unhappy fans/customers are far more likely to express a view (complaint) the club should not automatically assume that the silent majority are happy with the decision made to play behind closed doors, or satisfied with the reasons given.

Personally, I understand the logic behind the decision but I would have preferred to attend if possible, whether by entering a ballot or other means. I had actually booked flights to Italy on Boxing Day to visit close family, but was forced to postpone these because the airline changed the early flight time to a late one which was unsuitable. I consoled myself when I looked at the fixture list for this week and realised I could attend 2 home games - or not as it turns out. ☹



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 10:53

What people fail to understand is that the club can`t always be open and honest.

Picture the scene, the club is making a decision about letting 500 people in or not. They hear from ICT that half the squad is out with COVID so it may get rearranged. They`re then told by Stephen`s that they`re not turning up for only 500 fans (I`m not saying this happened but it could be true). The directors are then looking at it costing money and taking time to make arrangements for a game that may not take place. They can`t openly state this as some of it is private and some of it relates to commercial dealings.

Some people seem to think the directors are sat quaffing champagne and yelling "screw `em!"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 10:54

Eck can you not see how out of touch the BOD are with this? Your stance is always to question the fans rather than discuss the matter at hand. What`s your thoughts on us not being able to attend tonight but Raith allowing fans in on Sunday? How can our clubs stance be right?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 11:05

I`ve never said I agree with the board`s decision. I think they could have made clearer their reasons for it and, as it turns out, they are out of step with other clubs. My frustration with this forum is that people are always so quick to come to a view on stuff without hearing both sides of the story. It`s actually quite dangerous. If I felt as strongly as some folk on here I`d be contacting the SLO instead of complaining on here.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 11:12

Quote:

wee eck, Wed 29 Dec 11:05

I`ve never said I agree with the board`s decision. I think they could have made clearer their reasons for it and, as it turns out, they are out of step with other clubs. My frustration with this forum is that people are always so quick to come to a view on stuff without hearing both sides of the story. It`s actually quite dangerous. If I felt as strongly as some folk on here I`d be contacting the SLO instead of complaining on here.


I never said you agreed with the decision. I asked for YOUR thoughts. Agreed, fans come to form an opinion quickly but you`re always just as quick running them down. I`m not sure how there are two sides to this story. We`ve heard as much as we`re ever going to hear about this from our BOD and still no explanation as to how we can`t allow fans in but a club like Raith can.

It really is quite worrying.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 11:34

My thoughts are that I`d like to hear more of the board`s rationale for coming to the decision they did but I don`t feel strongly enough about it to contact them directly.

A common theme on here is that the board are detached from the fans and are basically `anti-fan`. Well, they appointed an SLO to act as a link between them and the fans and it seems he is ignored when something like this happens. Whose fault is that?

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: CrossPar  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 12:11

The SLO was asked a direct question on this thread about this issue. He has not responded.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 13:50

I haven`t sent an email to anyone on this - yet. I don`t think it would have achieved anything. Very shortly after wee eck suggested people should contact Drew, he posted himself on this thread. Given that, I think it`s very likely that Drew has read my various lengthy comments already, so putting it all in an email would add nothing. All it would do would give extra work to someone, who I assume is a volunteer or is paid a nominal pittance, who would feel obliged to write some sort of reply.

The SLO is a useful channel to allow fans to feed things to board level, but it is not his responsibility to disseminate information by email if such information has not yet been published more widely. You only have to look at his replies here, and just how carefully worded they are, to see that it`s a position in which the person must tread a fine line at times like this. I`m glad we have Drew in that post and it`s certainly not one I`d want myself. But, although the creation of SLO posts across the Scottish game was a good thing, on some matters there will always be limits to their powers.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: 1970par  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 13:54

Wonder what the crowd will be tonight?

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: AB Loyal  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 14:04

How anyone can defend the boards stance is beyond me. The latest in a long story of treating the fans with utter contempt.

The Prophet - 12/07/18, 13/06/19, 10/07/20
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: rossmcno1  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 14:30

Meanwhile I’ll be heading to Cumbernauld Colts v East Kilbride. £8 to get in, hopefully plenty of goals and action, and no so many square passes between the back 4 and holding mid 🤭😉.



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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 14:33

What doesn`t help is that we seem to the only club who have decided to go closed doors. Falkirk were getting slated for the way they were doing it (people having to go in person to the ground and queue on a first come, first served basis) but when folk saw we weren`t allowing anyone in at all we seemed to be out of step with everyone else. We also don`t seem to have many any moves to change the Raith game when moving it to say February like the Killie v Ayr game would allow our fans in if all goes well (and we`d likely have a fee new players available).

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 14:37

Drew is a massive fan first and foremost, so I`d imagine it would be his first preference to get supporters in if possible.

I am sure he`d answer any response directed to him and I`m equally sure that the board will explain the decision in due course - probably after they get tonight`s game out the way.

Doesn`t mean we will all agree with it though.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: SeasonedPar  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 14:58

If it’s going to cost the club financially to have supporters in the stadium, then a wider view is needed.

A difficult 18 months, with reduced income, a sacked manager, a new CEO, and an expectation the Board will make cash available for new signings in January.
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 15:12

So what is the break even point then for the club in terms of number of tickets sold to accommodate 500 fans?

They’ve sold circa 2,000 tickets for the game so is than not enough?

Post Edited (Wed 29 Dec 15:20)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 15:23

how we can`t allow fans in but a club like Raith can.

If the Championship clubs met on 22 December and agreed not to have a break, DAFC had two working days to organise something for Arbroath and one more working day - match day - to organise something for Inverness. Raith have 5 days to organise only one match for on the 2nd.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 15:39

Incorrect. They should have been at home tonight as well, a game that was postponed after they had communicated arrangements of their ballot for it. Defend the DAFC decision if you wish, but not by giving inaccurate information like the above.

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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 15:47

It seems likely that Covid cases will stay high or even increase over the next couple of weeks, so IMO it`s probable that crowd restrictions will still be in place for the Hamilton match on 15 January.

Now that this evening`s match is postponed, there is an opportunity and time for the Board to consider if any fans will be allowed in for that match or any subsequent ones where Government regulations permit it.

Of course, bad weather could postpone the 15 January match too, but I hope the Board will use the time to develop fair and workable arrangements to allocate entry tickets for at least some of those fans who have already paid for them.



Post Edited (Wed 29 Dec 17:08)
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 Re: No fans v Arbroath or Caley
Topic Originator: The Roy Barry Fan Club  
Date:   Wed 29 Dec 16:18

Just to mention that Hearts did not have any season ticket holders at Tynecastle on Boxing Day, citing the difficulty of organising a ballot over Christmas. This has been confirmed to me by two Hearts season ticket holders. They were given a free view of the game on Hearts TV instead.

It seems to me that the home game on 26th December was the real problem. In addition we were the only team in the Championship to be drawn at home on both the 26th and 29th December. It will be interesting to see our approach to the Hamilton game, which I note was not covered by the DAFC Board statement.

My understanding is that including family season tickets we have closer to 3,000 than 2,000 season tickets in issue by the way.



Post Edited (Wed 29 Dec 17:58)
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