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 goals are what we want
Topic Originator: thebear  
Date:   Tue 8 Mar 00:31

there is no way a decent manager publicly slags his team off, he is all very supportive on camera, but underneath he must be giving them hell
if we had just got one or two goals per match we would be in the play offs but we are not, forwards are not good enough!!
however we have played leagues top teams, but as yogi says any team can take points of the others but seemingly not us.
easier but still hard games coming up, we need goals and a minimum of 12 points to have any chance of survival
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: RhinoPars  
Date:   Tue 8 Mar 06:31

Opps wrong thread



Post Edited (Tue 08 Mar 06:31)
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 8 Mar 12:47

We need bigger goals like these at EEP:







Play towards them in the first half, then at half time swap `em round and play towards them again.



Post Edited (Tue 08 Mar 12:55)
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: gordi-b  
Date:   Tue 8 Mar 16:46

Goals are what every team in the league want, unfortunately we find them very hard to come by, we created more chances on Saturday than most weeks and it has been a major problem all season yet we have persevered with the same system week in week out , the four subs on Saturday was a major step from the usual , think the coaching staff have woken up at last

G.B
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Tue 8 Mar 16:47

What we really really want.....

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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: USMac  
Date:   Tue 8 Mar 19:19

As gordi-b says, we`re creating chances now. Earlier in the season, the chances were few and far between. That was worrying.

You can`t score goals without creating chances. If we keep creating chances, we`ll score goals -- it`s just a matter of time.

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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: RossF  
Date:   Tue 8 Mar 21:20

I think us and Killie are the only teams in this league that are playing one up front. Difference is Killie have much more quality and have players capable of playing the role of being a nuisance and getting goals.

The teams around us persist with two men and are getting the vital goals they need. We on the other hand stick with one man up front and it`s clearly not working. We`ve scored the least amount of goals and have the worst goal difference. That is beyond embarrassing for a team like Dunfermline. It`s shambolic. I like Yogi but his stubbornness of sticking with the same tactic is seriously looking it will keep us bottom of the league

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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 9 Mar 09:50

It’s vital to convert chances obviously - especially penalties on the rare occasions they come along.

That miss at Rugby Park was a crucial failing.
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: Diablop4r  
Date:   Wed 9 Mar 11:58

Totally agree goals/wins is what we desperately need since JH has arrived we have taken 18 out of 45 points and only scored 14, conceded 18.

IMO we need 2 up front, Dorrans Is not a number 10 his tactics have not changed in 15 league games, but I think it needs to NOW.

Clearly what isn`t helping us is that Bullen, Imrie and Gibson are starting to get results,

Been a fan for 38 years and this got to be the worst I have seen ( and I have seen some howlers)

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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 9 Mar 15:09

Quote:

veteraneastender, Wed 9 Mar 09:50

It’s vital to convert chances obviously - especially penalties on the rare occasions they come along.

That miss at Rugby Park was a crucial failing.


I can`t agree with that, VEE. The Pars still scored the opening goal later in the game, so Killie had less time to mount a comeback. It`s too simplistic to think that we would have gone on to establish a two goal lead if Lawless had converted the pen. There`s no way of knowing how the game would have panned out in that scenario.

Had Killie gone ahead after the miss from the spot, your argument would have been much more compelling.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Wed 9 Mar 16:00

You have a habit of seeing things that way, GG. I noticed you posted a similar view in connection with the Everton `penalty` that wasn`t given.

I mean, who`s to say, if we`d scored the pen at Killie, we wouldn`t have gone two up and shut up shop for the win. Your idea of `what if` works both ways.

And, in regard to the Everton game, I`d say that, if they`d been given the pen, most likely they would have scored from it (unless I`m mistaken in thinking that Everton score more pens than they miss), and not unlikely that they could have held on for a point.

Seems self evident to me that you`ve a better chance of gettin` somethin` from a game in which the score is close, if the ref doesn`t do you out of a pen and if, when you get one, you score. So I`m wi` VEE on that one.



Post Edited (Thu 10 Mar 01:12)
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 9 Mar 17:41

"I can`t agree with that, VEE. The Pars still scored the opening goal later in the game, so Killie had less time to mount a comeback. It`s too simplistic to think that we would have gone on to establish a two goal lead if Lawless had converted the pen. There`s no way of knowing how the game would have panned out in that scenario."

It panned out with us scoring at least one less goal than we did.

A comeback against a two goal scoreline would have been a much more of a challenge to Killi.

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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 9 Mar 18:05

i can see where GGR is coming from. Goals change games, as they say, but the timing of goals is also important. Sometimes, especially away from home, an early goal for the visiting team can change their mindset and cause them to adopt a `what we have we hold` mindset even if that wasn`t the original game plan. They go on the back foot and find it hard to change if the home team equalises. It`s even more prevalent if a team`s not used to winning.

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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 9 Mar 18:09

Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Wed 9 Mar 17:41

"I can`t agree with that, VEE. The Pars still scored the opening goal later in the game, so Killie had less time to mount a comeback. It`s too simplistic to think that we would have gone on to establish a two goal lead if Lawless had converted the pen. There`s no way of knowing how the game would have panned out in that scenario."

It panned out with us scoring at least one less goal than we did.

A comeback against a two goal scoreline would have been a much more of a challenge to Killi.

I`m with vee on this one .. first goal is so important especially early .. when the opposition have to chase the game and leave themselves vulnerable to the counter attack

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 9 Mar 19:07

If only the fog hadn`t come down!🤔
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 9 Mar 20:37

Was that the same game as the Lawless penalty miss ?

We lost that.

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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: Gadgie59  
Date:   Wed 9 Mar 21:29

Too many games this season it appears that, even when we’ve been in the ascendancy, we sit deep and let the opposition come at us; persistently letting other teams take the initiative (and back into the game) has cost us dearly.

The formations we’ve played may not be as significant as the tactics? Other teams may play with a single striker, Rovers have often but they also get numbers forward in the box when it matters - so whether the formation has 2, 3 or even 4 behind the striker, getting those players into attacking positions is more likely to get goals …. sitting back and letting the opposition come at you just doesn’t make sense to me.

Very good example was the 1-1 draw away at Rovers; when we ‘equalised’ we were totally in ascendancy but once we scored we just seemed to switch off. If we’d just kept doing what we were doing a winning goal (or even more) was certainly possible.


“Football is a beautiful game,
It should be played beautifully.”
Brian Clough.
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: nazpar  
Date:   Wed 9 Mar 22:17

Quote:

veteraneastender, Wed 9 Mar 20:37

Was that the same game as the Lawless penalty miss ?

We lost that.


No the game when the fog came down it was 1-1 Craig Wighton had scored for us

nazpar
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 10 Mar 06:59

VEE and OAUTP, all opinions on this topic are valid, but some are more valid than others. 😉

Statistically - I know, I know - 80% of teams who score the opening goal take at least a point from the game. My almost infallible logic tells me that the later you open the scoring, the less time the opposition has to mount a fightback. Ironically, the first game I ever saw the Pars lose was v league leaders Kilmarnock in Jan 1964. The Pars established a two goal lead inside 25 mins, but a determined Killie eventually ran out 3-2 winners. I can`t escape the feeling that, had the Pars gone 2-0 up in the second half, we would probably not have lost it, although as I said when I challenged VEE`s post, there`s no way of knowing how a game will pan out - there`s an almost infinite number of possibilities.

The penalty award Everton were denied is a totally different scenario and can`t be compared to the Killie - Pars game, imo. Everton were losing and there wasn`t much time left, so there`s a stronger argument to suggest they might have salvaged a point. They still had to convert it though and then hold out. Of course, Man City weren`t playing well and Everton might even have scored a winner, but my money would have been on a draw as I think the Toffees would have been delighted with a point after being behind.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 10 Mar 08:41

I don’t follow the logic here GG - missing a key penalty is “acceptable” in certain scenarios ?
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 10 Mar 13:00

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 10 Mar 08:41

I don’t follow the logic here GG - missing a key penalty is “acceptable” in certain scenarios ?


Ah, you`re being deliberately obtuse now. 🙂

I don`t think the penalty was key - we went in front later in the game anyway and still failed to defend our lead. I never suggested it was acceptable, but in the circumstances it was inconsequential. Are you saying that if Lawless had scored from the spot, we`d have added a second and the game would have finished 2-2?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 10 Mar 15:52

We lost 1-2 having missed a penalty before we scored.

Can`t follow the inconsequential arguement.

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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 10 Mar 16:16

I see what you`re getting at GG, I think you`re implying that, had we scored the pen, things probably would have panned out just as they did after we actually scored. But as you say, `there`s no way of knowing how a game will pan out.`

So then I`m not sure why you claim our pen miss was inconsequential. Seems to me, if no-one knows how things would have panned out, no-one knows if the miss was consequential or not either. 🙂

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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 10 Mar 18:04

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 10 Mar 15:52

We lost 1-2 having missed a penalty before we scored.

Can`t follow the inconsequential arguement.


Well we we failed to defend a lead. Had we scored the pen we`d still have had a one goal lead. Would we have necessarily added to it? Who knows? Maybe we`ll just have to agree to disagree? I`m just saying the later you go in front in a game, the greater your chances of getting something from it - in theory at least, because your opponent has less time to mount a comeback.



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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 10 Mar 18:11

Quote:

onandupthepars, Thu 10 Mar 16:16

I see what you`re getting at GG, I think you`re implying that, had we scored the pen, things probably would have panned out just as they did after we actually scored. But as you say, `there`s no way of knowing how a game will pan out.`

So then I`m not sure why you claim our pen miss was inconsequential. Seems to me, if no-one knows how things would have panned out, no-one knows if the miss was consequential or not either. 🙂


No that wasn`t what I was saying at, oautp. See my reply to VEE above. I find it quite frustrating that I can`t get my point across. I must be losing my touch. 🙁 I`ve always been of the view that the teacher must always find a way to make him/her self understood rather than blame the learner for not following the line of the argument.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 10 Mar 21:21

I still think that, had we scored the penalty, it was more likely to have
finished 2-2 and not 2-1. 🙁

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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Thu 10 Mar 21:33

Quote:

GG Riva, Thu 10 Mar 18:11

Quote:

onandupthepars, Thu 10 Mar 16:16

I see what you`re getting at GG, I think you`re implying that, had we scored the pen, things probably would have panned out just as they did after we actually scored. But as you say, `there`s no way of knowing how a game will pan out.`

So then I`m not sure why you claim our pen miss was inconsequential. Seems to me, if no-one knows how things would have panned out, no-one knows if the miss was consequential or not either. 🙂


No that wasn`t what I was saying at, oautp. See my reply to VEE above. I find it quite frustrating that I can`t get my point across. I must be losing my touch. 🙁 I`ve always been of the view that the teacher must always find a way to make him/her self understood rather than blame the learner for not following the line of the argument.


Fwiw GG I fully get what you`re saying, and agree with it.
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 10 Mar 21:58

For GG and Grant.

If we had scored the pen, and kept a clean sheet for long enough to get the second goal, we`d have had a two goal lead to defend.

In fact that`s exactly what happened, except we didn`t score the pen. We kept a clean sheet to the 67th minute, by which time we had scored what would have been a second goal.

I think what it boils down to is that you think, had we scored the pen, we wouldn`t have scored again and would still have lost 2-1. I don`t see any reason to think that`s what would have happened, so - bring on the Accies! 🙂

BTW - referring me back to your reply to VEE, didn`t quite make sense GG. In it, you said, `Well, we failed to defend a lead.` That`s what I meant by, `things probably would have panned out just as they did after we actually scored,`i.e. we failed to defend the lead. So don`t you worry about not finding the right words - it`s why we need to cut each other (in general) more slack, because we don`t always say what we think we are saying, and people don`t always interpret things the way we want them to. 🙂

Post Edited (Fri 11 Mar 03:49)
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 11 Mar 06:45

Aaargh! I`m almost suicidal now. 😨

"If we had scored the pen, and kept a clean sheet for long enough to get the second goal, we`d have had a two goal lead to defend.

In fact that`s exactly what happened, except we didn`t score the pen. We kept a clean sheet to the 67th minute, by which time we had scored what would have been a second goal."

What makes you think (a) Killie wouldn`t have scored before 67 min and (b) we`d have gone 2-0 up then? Both teams would have had a different mindset and employed different tactics had Lawless scored the pen.

"I think what it boils down to is that you think, had we scored the pen, we wouldn`t have scored again and would still have lost 2-1. I don`t see any reason to think that`s what would have happened, so - bring on the Accies! 🙂"

I wasn`t saying that at all. I was, or should have been, trying to stress the importance of the opening goal in any game. The later it happens, the better the chances of that team winning, or at least drawing, the game. The fact we did go in front later, made the penalty miss less crucial, imo. Had Killie gone in front soon after Lawless` miss, then that would have been far more significant, imo.

"BTW - referring me back to your reply to VEE, didn`t quite make sense GG. In it, you said, `Well, we failed to defend a lead.` That`s what I meant by, `things probably would have panned out just as they did after we actually scored,`i.e. we failed to defend the lead. So don`t you worry about not finding the right words - it`s why we need to cut each other (in general) more slack, because we don`t always say what we think we are saying, and people don`t always interpret things the way we want them to. 🙂"

I`m cutting you and VEE a lot of slack here for failing to interpret my ramblings correctly. 😃 That Grant laddie, clever boy - he`ll go far............ 😉



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Fri 11 Mar 17:01

Aye but I`m havin` sleepless nights noo, worryin` if the Pars will score too early against the Accies! 🙂 Never had tae worry aboot that before.
Remember The Hawthorns 1968!* That was how tae defend an early lead!

* WBA 0 Pars 1
Gardner 2 min.

Also, answers to above:
a) they didn`t
b) we could have, if we`d scored the pen.
`
Different mindsets and tactics? If we`d scored the pen, Killie would have kept a clean sheet after that? You say yes. I say no; you say stop, I say go, go, go.... Oh no! You say goodbye and I say hello!`:

https://youtu.be/rblYSKz_VnI?t=80







Post Edited (Fri 11 Mar 18:09)
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 11 Mar 17:42

"Remember The Hawthorns 1968!* That was how tae defend an early lead!"

Certainly was an early lead in `68 !!!

The away leg v WBA was February the following year.

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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Fri 11 Mar 17:46

So it wis, VEE. Well done. 👍



Post Edited (Fri 11 Mar 17:47)
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 11 Mar 18:27

Couldn`t forget standing on the terracing at EEP as the gale blew down the big screen and we all had to move round to see the other one.

Fortunately we saw the early goal before the big blaw did its worst !!!

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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Fri 11 Mar 19:55

Ref: veteraneastender
Fri 11 Mar 18:27


I didn`t remember that. I think I remember the picture conking out and I missed seeing the goal. But did they show it on the big screen after? Because I feel I saw it somewhere: Paddy G`s header, intae the bottom corner and Osborne? diving at full stretch couldny reach it? My memories are hazy, can somebody fill me in? (pun intended)

Not a bad achievement knockin` oot the FA cup holders. But the Pars successes in they days bred high expectations, just as did Scotland`s victories in the 60s over that ither crowd fae the south. 🙂

Post Edited (Fri 11 Mar 20:16)
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 11 Mar 20:28

Quote:

veteraneastender, Fri 11 Mar 18:27

Couldn`t forget standing on the terracing at EEP as the gale blew down the big screen and we all had to move round to see the other one.

Fortunately we saw the early goal before the big blaw did its worst !!!


Aye that was quite a night - I remember it exactly as you describe it, VEE. Anybody know the attendance at EEP?

I also remember it was pretty blowy at the Hawthorns and the almost grassless pitch looked bone hard. My abiding memory of the game, apart from the goal, was the Pars rearguard launching long balls towards each opposing corner flag and Paddy Gardiner chasing them down to keep the ball in play and use up a few valuable seconds.

Roy B never gave England`s WC centre forward, Jeff Astle, a sniff in both games. 😊



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: goals are what we want
Topic Originator: Gadgie59  
Date:   Fri 11 Mar 22:06

On the old nostalgia front ….. back around ‘68, or there thereabouts, the pars weren’t the only provincial club in Scotland acquitting themselves well against ‘bigger’ opponents.

I’ve recollections of Hibs going toe-to-toe with Liverpool (1970?) and only losing out 0-1 at Easter Road then 2-0 in the return leg; and I think they had a couple of close games against Don Revie’s Leeds(?). Then in ‘71 Airdrie lost out to Derby County (who were a significant force in English 1st division then) 2-1 in the Texaco Cup final.

And, as well as Dundee Utd’s famous victory (home & away) over Barcelona in ‘87; this was actually a repeat of the same achievement from back in ‘66!

Of course, back in those days there was an almost equal chance that someone other than the old-firm might win the league (ie 1 in 3). Sadly, you need to go back to 1985 to find the last time one of the ugly sisters didn’t win the league, and back to 1965 to a time when neither of them made it into 1st or 2nd.


“Football is a beautiful game,
It should be played beautifully.”
Brian Clough.
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