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 Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: GG4  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 11:18

Lifted from P&B Falkirk thread. An intetesting read.

We both went along to the early session the other night and I’ve tried to summarise the best I can for any fans who weren’t there. Just trying to be helpful so please don’t shoot the messenger!


After a brief introduction from Keith Gourlay, the opening section was from Kenny Jamieson and was around the performance in 2021/22. Summarised as:
for context, 450k is the average yearly operating loss in historic years
we’ve had 17 operating losses in the last 20 years he said
we had 720k in bank at start of 2021/22 (we were lucky due to apparently receiving a sell-on clause for Will Vaulks and some residual Rawlins investment)
since taking over in 21/22 the new board are running at 2 times the normal operating loss (anticipated loss this year will be a staggering 900k+)
serious current cash flow concerns he said, club is not in a healthy position
KJ confirmed it is “the worst cash flow position at the start of any season since we were at Ochilview”
he said they just paid the wages a few days ago but that there is very little left in the pot now
begging bowl went out for more FSS members or anyone who wants to throw in 10k to join his patrons group
this FSS plug was repeated about four times during the night and leaflets left on all our seats too

He said income needs to be boosted by 300-400k via the appointment of Graham Stewart, who was introduced to everyone as our new commercial manager, apparently he’s been brought in as he’s related to one of the patrons group a gentleman sitting along from us said so he is a known face to them. If Graham isn’t successful at boosting income by 300-400k then KJ explained the only other option for the club is to run at an operating loss and ideally he wants to cap the operating loss to a maximum of 400k a year. So taking about 10% off the average 450k figure he gave previously. This year is over double that though.

They said they didn’t think the club would literally have ran out of money in recent months and when asked why not, the reply was “I’m sure the board would’ve found soft loans from somewhere”…. but there was no indication at the session of where that would actually be. It did make us both worry a bit that it sounds like the new controlling group don’t actually seem to have any rainy day cash.

Non-footballing costs have been reduced, because four people have walked out recently. The board confirmed we now only have the equivalent of 9 full-time staff left at the entire club and both Nigel Serafini and Gordon Wright said it’s the volunteers in various areas who have basically saved us and that they are vital because if we lose them, then our costs will increase further and put even more strain on the current finances.





Post Edited (Tue 07 Jun 11:24)
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: GG4  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 11:24

KJ acknowledged that the new board have worked in business but that none of the new board has any football experience and since they decided to fire Gary Holt they have now inadvertently created a football knowledge gap, but he said that we shouldn’t worry as Martin Rennie has guided them in terms of football structure on what “a well run club looks like” and they are following his guidance, plus info from other people they have spoke to.

The next bit of info was the one that was really contradictory, having just said that they wanted to control costs given how bad the finances now are, they went on to say they actually want to spend more cash on a new grass training facility of all things. They said they are close to exploring/sealing options and wouldn’t say what. It’s a badly kept secret though that they’ve apparently done a deal to spend roughly £30-35,000 to hire Little Kerse, as coaches of youth teams down there have known about it for a few weeks now and have been openly talking about it when we took our grandson down to his training recently. It seems a strange decision especially given the serious cashflow concerns mentioned and I can’t help but feel it’s just a waste of money. Neither of the two of us could see how they needed this and if it turns out to be true and we do indeed move training to Little Kerse then to spend what little precious money we have left like that is just wrong, as that sort of cash should be given to the manager to get us a competent striker for once. Personal opinion only and each to their own I guess.

We’d also lose the slight advantage of being used to our own pitch if we train instead on grass all week. The very thin justification offered for it all was that grass would help “player recovery”. Personally, I’d still rather have a striker.

Continuing pitch chat, they said that no cash has been put aside by them for pitch renewal yet. The money from the upcoming Killers gigs will apparently be ring-fenced towards pitch renewal costs, but they admitted later during the Q&A that it will only pay a small portion of it. They have no idea currently where the rest of the cash is coming from.

Everything about finances was depressing to be honest. Douglas Moodie gave one positive and said it previously took six and a half weeks to generate a set of “management accounts”, but under his guidance and a new finance software system they have bought, they can now generate these reports within two days. Sadly, it seems all that’s done is maybe make them realise how much of a worry the cash situation is!





Post Edited (Tue 07 Jun 11:25)
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: GG4  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 11:25

Overall, while a couple of them spoke well in terms of delivery of the content, the actual content itself didn’t stand up to much scrutiny, especially the financial stuff. As a result my husband and I both left really disheartened. I applaud them for trying and sincerely want them all to do well as they are fans the same as we are, but at the moment it doesn’t yet feel like a safe pair of hands and there seems to be a lack of outright leadership as they’ve still not chosen a chairman. Thankless task though I’m sure and not one I’d do, so I can understand their hesitation at stepping up to the role.

We couldn’t make previous fan event sessions as our daughter has an auto-immune condition and had to isolate for long spells until she was well enough to get fully vaccinated, but we both went along to the early session the other night as we wanted to genuinely engage with the current board and so that we knew we had made an effort to actually meet them in person and listen to what they had to say, but we both came away a little downbeat, mainly due to the financial concerns.

The one bit of critical feedback for them we’d give is that they need to stop blaming everyone else but themselves. It’s not a good look. They’ve been in place about 8 months now and we both genuinely understand they won’t fix every problem overnight and we are genuinely grateful to them for trying, most fans have been supportive too rather than give them any sort of hard time, but constantly trying to say that every negative in or around the club is still somehow someone else’s fault fully 8 months later just no longer cuts it I’m afraid. They need to accept that it’s now their performance, not anyone else’s.

They’d genuinely have gotten more respect from us both if they’d actually stood there and publicly admitted they’ve made mistakes just like previous boards have too i.e. wasting an alleged £2,500 per week on an overweight Leigh Griffiths who only scored two goals, a supporter posting on Facebook that they were apparently seen at Goodwillie’s house trying to sign him, not to mention the totally failed appointment of Martin Rennie as manager.

Me and my husband, plus our kids, their partners and our grandkids will all do our bit and renew our season tickets and we’ve all signed up to FSS to help too, even though it’s difficult with all our bills going up just now, plus supporting our daughter while she was off work ill, but the undoubted overriding worry we both came away with chatting in the car on the way back to Larbert is that given the serious cashflow concerns and the money blown on Griffiths, multiple personnel payoffs and various other things, it seems like we may be heading down the path towards administration and we both truly dread the thought of that happening.

If you can, join up to the FSS. It sounds like it’ll be badly needed.

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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: elvis_lives  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 11:28

That`s a massive warning about what can happen if we don`t get things right and end up spending two or three years in the wilderness.

Big season ahead.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: PARadise  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 11:31

Ha ha ha
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 11:33

This is why part of me is glad we`ve been careful with spending, though think maybe we should have spent more (easy to say in hindsight!).

Even though they`re a rival, I`d hate them to go under. Okay, they may have webbed toes and ride horses, but they`re still fans.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: DJAS  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 12:01

Hasn`t stopped them going out and signing players ft for next season. Sound in a really bad way. What a shame.





Predictor league winner 2012/2013
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 13:07

If they dissappear who will we hate?

matt forsyth
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 13:38

Quote:

eastendalloapar, Tue 7 Jun 13:07

If they dissappear who will we hate?


Airdrie?


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 13:56

I wonder if Col Donaldson was aware of this before he signed ?

Surely McGlynn would have been given some guarantees regarding available budget ?

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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 14:10

Quote:

eastendalloapar, Tue 7 Jun 13:07

If they dissappear who will we hate?


Probably ourselves. We`re good at it

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Indiapar  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 14:34

Quote:

GG4, Tue 7 Jun 11:18

Lifted from P&B Falkirk thread. An intetesting read.

We both went along to the early session the other night and I’ve tried to summarise the best I can for any fans who weren’t there. Just trying to be helpful so please don’t shoot the messenger!


After a brief introduction from Keith Gourlay, the opening section was from Kenny Jamieson and was around the performance in 2021/22. Summarised as:
for context, 450k is the average yearly operating loss in historic years
we’ve had 17 operating losses in the last 20 years he said
we had 720k in bank at start of 2021/22 (we were lucky due to apparently receiving a sell-on clause for Will Vaulks and some residual Rawlins investment)
since taking over in 21/22 the new board are running at 2 times the normal operating loss (anticipated loss this year will be a staggering 900k+)
serious current cash flow concerns he said, club is not in a healthy position
KJ confirmed it is “the worst cash flow position at the start of any season since we were at Ochilview”
he said they just paid the wages a few days ago but that there is very little left in the pot now
begging bowl went out for more FSS members or anyone who wants to throw in 10k to join his patrons group
this FSS plug was repeated about four times during the night and leaflets left on all our seats too

He said income needs to be boosted by 300-400k via the appointment of Graham Stewart, who was introduced to everyone as our new commercial manager, apparently he’s been brought in as he’s related to one of the patrons group a gentleman sitting along from us said so he is a known face to them. If Graham isn’t successful at boosting income by 300-400k then KJ explained the only other option for the club is to run at an operating loss and ideally he wants to cap the operating loss to a maximum of 400k a year. So taking about 10% off the average 450k figure he gave previously. This year is over double that though.

They said they didn’t think the club would literally have ran out of money in recent months and when asked why not, the reply was “I’m sure the board would’ve found soft loans from somewhere”…. but there was no indication at the session of where that would actually be. It did make us both worry a bit that it sounds like the new controlling group don’t actually seem to have any rainy day cash.

Non-footballing costs have been reduced, because four people have walked out recently. The board confirmed we now only have the equivalent of 9 full-time staff left at the entire club and both Nigel Serafini and Gordon Wright said it’s the volunteers in various areas who have basically saved us and that they are vital because if we lose them, then our costs will increase further and put even more strain on the current finances.





No surprise really. I imagine they are one of many clubs running a very tight budget. Scottish football The current model is unsustainable. I imagine the day is coming very soon where the only FT clubs are those in the Premiership.

I think the new BoD are correct to look at youth development and building bottom up for a sustainable future. The days are over where playing in the lower leagues offers FT playing opportunities.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 14:41

The second tier of the Scottish leagues being populated my a majority of full time clubs is a relatively new thing I think?

I seem to remember most teams being part time in the eighties? Including a few who had been in the Premier recently too, such as Dumbarton.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 15:16

Quote:

Wotsit, Tue 7 Jun 14:41

The second tier of the Scottish leagues being populated my a majority of full time clubs is a relatively new thing I think?

I seem to remember most teams being part time in the eighties? Including a few who had been in the Premier recently too, such as Dumbarton.



The eighties were forty years ago.

Not quite getting the doom and gloom for being full time, hopefully part time football is nowhere near our radar.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Rigger Al  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 16:21

Quote:

da_no_1, Tue 7 Jun 14:10

Quote:

eastendalloapar, Tue 7 Jun 13:07

If they dissappear who will we hate?


Probably ourselves. We`re good at it

:):):)
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: neils  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 17:38

Most clubs seem to manage fine FT. Don`t see the need for anyone to go PT.

there`s a few clubs like QOS, Ayr, now Hamilton, Morton whose crowds make me wonder how they can balance the books, but they can, so I don`t see the problem-but Falkirk problems are they are such a badly run club. Payoffs to staff, paying a clearly overweight and finished Griffith`s ridiculous money, are just a few ways to run up a huge debt.

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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 19:56

The outlay on their stadium must be a fraction of what we pay surely
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 7 Jun 20:55

The Pars don`t own EEP. Rent is paid. The stadium is owned separately.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: back oh the net  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 00:15

Tick tock get the jelly and ice cream on order lads

Come on ye pars ⚽️
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 07:41

Quote:

Wotsit, Tue 7 Jun 13:38

Quote:

eastendalloapar, Tue 7 Jun 13:07

If they dissappear who will we hate?


Airdrie?


We already do!

Falkirk have been struggling for years, just shows the importance of promotion this year for us.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Stanza  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 12:48

Topic Originator: Tenruh like
Date: Tue 7 Jun 19:56

The outlay on their stadium must be a fraction of what we pay surely

Topic Originator: jake89 like
Date: Tue 7 Jun 20:55

The Pars don`t own EEP. Rent is paid. The stadium is owned separately.


I don`t know the exact details of the lease from the owners (PUEEP Ltd), but I`m pretty sure that DAFC Ltd still has all the expense of maintaining and operating the stadium.

_________________

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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 13:59

Quote:

Stanza, Wed 8 Jun 12:48

Topic Originator: Tenruh like
Date: Tue 7 Jun 19:56

The outlay on their stadium must be a fraction of what we pay surely

Topic Originator: jake89 like
Date: Tue 7 Jun 20:55

The Pars don`t own EEP. Rent is paid. The stadium is owned separately.


I don`t know the exact details of the lease from the owners (PUEEP Ltd), but I`m pretty sure that DAFC Ltd still has all the expense of maintaining and operating the stadium.


A stadium with 4 stands and grass pitch, unlike the council owned Grangemouth Stadium with 1 stand a couple of shacks and plastic pitch.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 14:54

I`d imagine any money from events goes to Falkirk Council though? Same with Edinburgh and Meadowbank. Don`t West Lothian council own Almondvale?
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 14:58

I`m pretty sure Falkirk have had concert revenue in their accounts and it`s a decent money spinner for them I believe.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 16:29

Quote:

londonparsfan, Wed 8 Jun 14:58

I`m pretty sure Falkirk have had concert revenue in their accounts and it`s a decent money spinner for them I believe.


Yes. The post at the top quotes a director as saying “the money from the killers gig will be ringfenced….” So the club do profit from gigs.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: GG4  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 16:33

Their plastic pitch is needing replaced as well. It`s worn out apparently. Another huge cost for them. I can see admin happening for the mutants.

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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 16:35

They`re surely coining it in then? Shame we can`t do the same but imagine there would be noise concerns from Halbeath Road residents.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 16:41

Quote:

jake89, Wed 8 Jun 16:35

They`re surely coining it in then? Shame we can`t do the same but imagine there would be noise concerns from Halbeath Road residents.


There was concerns about the noise at the Killers gig`s. Think the volume had to be lowered
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 16:45

Quote:

jake89, Wed 8 Jun 16:35

They`re surely coining it in then? Shame we can`t do the same but imagine there would be noise concerns from Halbeath Road residents.


Maybe not as much as you’d think. They’ve said the money from the gigs would pay a small portion of the pitch replacement. Considering tickets would have made somewhere near £3.5m then I’d be led to believe that their cut isn’t that big.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 16:51

Quote:

allparone, Wed 8 Jun 16:45

Quote:

jake89, Wed 8 Jun 16:35

They`re surely coining it in then? Shame we can`t do the same but imagine there would be noise concerns from Halbeath Road residents.


Maybe not as much as you’d think. They’ve said the money from the gigs would pay a small portion of the pitch replacement. Considering tickets would have made somewhere near £3.5m then I’d be led to believe that their cut isn’t that big.


£3.5m for 2 Killers gigs? How many folk were there? That seems a lot of money
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 17:24

50,000 over the 2 nights. I think tickets were between £50 and £150.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 17:44

Quote:

allparone, Wed 8 Jun 17:24

50,000 over the 2 nights. I think tickets were between £50 and £150.


Oaft! I had no idea it would hold 25,000, I thought maybe 12,500. That`s a decent sized pie for them to have a slice of
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 18:11

Quote:

allparone, Wed 8 Jun 16:29

Quote:

londonparsfan, Wed 8 Jun 14:58

I`m pretty sure Falkirk have had concert revenue in their accounts and it`s a decent money spinner for them I believe.


Yes. The post at the top quotes a director as saying “the money from the killers gig will be ringfenced….” So the club do profit from gigs.


Ah so it does thanks mate I`d forgotten that was in there.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 18:15

£50 for the Killers? Bloody hell.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 18:18

And Supergrass if you`re into that kind of thing.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: DJAS  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 18:25

£50 is relatively cheap for a gig nowadays





Predictor league winner 2012/2013
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 18:34

Which is pretty shocking to be honest.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 18:48

I can understand £50+ for bug artists, but aren`t the Killers a bit old hat nowadays? No offence to them, some decent songs but not aware of anything they`ve done recently.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 18:54

Quote:

jake89, Wed 8 Jun 18:48

I can understand £50+ for bug artists, but aren`t the Killers a bit old hat nowadays? No offence to them, some decent songs but not aware of anything they`ve done recently.


A jake bug artist!
Killers are fantastic live as 50 thousand over 2 nights would testify, but can`t believe that amount fitting into that stadium, certainly something for us to think about. I suppose any repairs to the pitch would need to be factored in.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 19:04

This is probably the only situation where it is a bonus having only 3 stands. The main stage was built in the area where the 4th stand should be which meant more pitch space for fans.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: DJAS  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 20:01

One of the best I`ve seen live.





Predictor league winner 2012/2013
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 21:25

Still struggling big time from Hartley`s spell in charge and absolute car crash recruitment strategy.

Could be us in a few years if we are not careful.

---------------------------------------------------------------


"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Wed 8 Jun 23:31

Quote:

TAFKA_Super_Petrie, Wed 8 Jun 21:25

Still struggling big time from Hartley`s spell in charge and absolute car crash recruitment strategy.

Could be us in a few years if we are not careful.


The clue is in that last bit. We are being careful

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: dover par  
Date:   Thu 9 Jun 10:11

Quote:

TAFKA_Super_Petrie, Wed 8 Jun 21:25

Still struggling big time from Hartley`s spell in charge and absolute car crash recruitment strategy.

Could be us in a few years if we are not careful.


From what I’ve heard so far about the plans from David Cook we are in safe hands.

"Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing."
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Livingston Par  
Date:   Thu 9 Jun 20:27

3 decent signings for them today including Gary Oliver.....all we needed



Post Edited (Thu 09 Jun 20:28)
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 9 Jun 20:43

1 decent signing (McGinn)

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Thu 9 Jun 22:28

McGinn is a good signing, however I`d rather have Hamilton, And realistically you wouldn`t have both in the same team.

I`m not massively familiar with the Falkirk squad, however looking at it they seem horrendously light upfront, I don`t see many goals in that team, however previously underperforming players like Nesbitt, McGuffie and Morrison could be a good proposition out wide in the correct set up...

We`re still really early on in pre season with little knowledge of how the teams will shape up, Donaldson is still the signing I`m most jealous of though.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 9 Jun 23:40

Surprised to read that Gary Oliver is only 26. He seems to have been around for ages.

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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Fri 10 Jun 11:20

I don`t know enough about Oliver`s game to pass judgement, however he`s never scored more than 7 league goals in any season.

Obviously he`s guaranteed to score against us, but is there any sign that it`s a great signing? There`s nothing to suggest he`ll score them the goals that fire them to the title.

Is he a great link man or does he set up a lot of goals?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Failkirk In Financial Bother?
Topic Originator: Livingston Par  
Date:   Fri 10 Jun 11:56

Hadn`t realised that about Oliver......he must score over 50 pc of his goals against us. If he can keep doing that then our H2H v Falkirk might not be too good this season and these games could be crucial in deciding where the title goes.

Still think for a team that are supposedly broke they are decent signings for this level. You have to imagine Oliver will score more goals a league down in a team that should be on the front foot more often than Morton normally are in the Championship. They have a competent manager now too so I expect them to be better next season sadly.

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