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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Fri 17 Jun 13:31
EDINBURGH CITY have been forced into a change of name ahead of the new season and will now be called Football Club of Edinburgh.
The capital outfit, who won promotion to League One via the play-offs last month, have been in discussions with the social club that owns the rights to the Edinburgh City name.
With no resolution to those talks, lawyers recommended a name change to protect
the club’s future.
Club officials have plumped for FC Edinburgh, with chairman Jim Brown explaining the switch in an address to supporters on Thursday night.
He said: “It became apparent that we don’t own the name. The social club owns the name Edinburgh City Football Club Limited.
“We’ve asked the social club on numerous occasions if they would let us have the name and change their name slightly to let us have the name.
“It’s a major stumbling block. As we grow and get promoted and try to do all the things we want to do, our lawyers have reiterated from the very start that we’ve got no rights over the name.
So, we felt Edinburgh is the key word, Edinburgh is the brand that we want to promote. That’s massive and we felt FC Edinburgh [was best].
“It’s used across Europe by many clubs and they don’t all use the FC, but `Football Club of` is their name.
“We felt it was a good way to take the club forward, it’s a modern name and it will help us build the club. We felt it was a good name and a name that people would relate to, not just in Scotland.”
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Fri 17 Jun 16:39
Edinburgh is too small for one team than let alone a third joining the fray…
And I still cannot believe we’re in the same league as them
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Topic Originator: neils
Date: Fri 17 Jun 18:15
Terrible name, how about something more appropriate, like Edinburgh Nomads, as it`s unclear where they will be playing, the refurbished Meadowbank looks awful, a tiny stand stuck behind a running track.
The club deserve to be in the third tier of the senior leagues though, they won promotion, so good luck, doesn`t matter about the small support.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Fri 17 Jun 19:07
Quote:
DBP, Fri 17 Jun 16:39
Edinburgh is too small for one team than let alone a third joining the fray…
What a weird thing for a Dunfermline (pop 58,508) fan to say about Edinburgh (pop 527,620) 🤷🏻
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Fri 17 Jun 19:39
Not really… I grew up in Edinburgh and when you cut out all the students, all the folk who moved there for work etc and all the non football fans, you end up with hibs and hearts that are too small to really compete.
Asa Leither it may seem strange to say this, but perhaps if mercer had got his hands on hibs, and once the die hards got over the shock (as they have in multiple other locations) then there could be a (singular) Edinburgh team that was maybe competing with the OF and maybe even in Europe.
As it stands there’s not really enough space for hibs and hearts
PS there’s an assumption in your response that suggests I think west fife is big enough for more than one team as well - I don’t
Post Edited (Fri 17 Jun 19:40)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 17 Jun 19:56
All cities have their share of transients, etc, not just Edinburgh.
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Topic Originator: Grant
Date: Fri 17 Jun 19:56
Quote:
DBP, Fri 17 Jun 19:39
Not really… I grew up in Edinburgh and when you cut out all the students, all the folk who moved there for work etc and all the non football fans, you end up with hibs and hearts that are too small to really compete.
Asa Leither it may seem strange to say this, but perhaps if mercer had got his hands on hibs, and once the die hards got over the shock (as they have in multiple other locations) then there could be a (singular) Edinburgh team that was maybe competing with the OF and maybe even in Europe.
As it stands there’s not really enough space for hibs and hearts
PS there’s an assumption in your response that suggests I think west fife is big enough for more than one team as well - I don’t
Fans wouldn`t get over the shock, if Dunfermline and Raith merged and play in Kirkcaldy in black and white I wouldn`t go, attendances would go down.
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Topic Originator: neils
Date: Fri 17 Jun 20:08
What nonsense, both Hibs and Hearts pretty much sell out most home games, they both have been going for 130+ years, so you think a made up team with no history will suddenly get 30000 to each home game? Please give me one example where a made up team has deemed a success. And no, Inverness are not one, they also have abysmal crowds
, are bankrolled by a construction magnate.
I also grew up for a bit in Edinburgh, and the fact it`s less than 20 miles from Dunfermline (not to mention the huge chunk commuting from Dunfermline) means it`s not some alien, unknown city to any of us. `All the people who moved for work, students etc` ...yep, that`s a city, that`s what happens. Always has, always will. The exceptions are when cities have lower paid work, rely too much on one thing (Glasgow for example) then people move out.
The idea that a Fife United would get crowds is nonsense, no rivalry, no tribalism, so in other words no interest. Who want to go to Glenrothes to watch Fife United?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 17 Jun 21:17
Lived in Edinburgh for many years so get the point about it having a transient population, but there are more than enough "locals" to support the teams.
Plenty Jambos and Hibees in Dunfermline too, unfortunately.
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Topic Originator: Livingston Par
Date: Fri 17 Jun 21:18
Hibs and Hearts crowds are not great for the size of the place considering East, Mid and West Lothian are also nearby. Too many OF fans there as well. Also not convinced a merger would have worked. Just ask any Inverness Thistle fan.
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Topic Originator: pars4life1
Date: Fri 17 Jun 21:21
Everything going on at that club seems absolutely ridiculous. Out the blue name change(with little change in circumstances) home ground being in utter shambles etc.
As for any suggestions of amalgamating clubs, get that so far to ****. There’s many many more than 3 clubs who in Edinburgh. The big two wouldn’t see much difference in attendance if they all went tomorrow. If they joined together even more fans would be lost to football.
Yes maybe If 150 years ago Edinburgh FC had formed with full city
buy in they maybe had been a force, but then if Queen’s Park fully embraced professionalism they’d potentially continued to be a great force.
You can’t go back and change history.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Fri 17 Jun 21:42
"so you think a made up team with no history will suddenly get 30000 to each home game?"
The latest incarnation of Sevco 😉
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Topic Originator: Ben,D.A
Date: Fri 17 Jun 22:42
The Edinburgh City social club has a long and recorded history, Lothian68 held many functions in the old club in Leith walk , with many football faces attending and supporting save the Pars during our difficult times.
When Ferranti Thistle were voted into the Scottish league, they had to change their name due to a commercial name, and then became Meadowbank thistle. This tie broke when they left for Livingstone but the fans remained supporting local teams. Edinburgh City is a social club, Similar to the Dunfermline supporters club / jubilee in the days of yore, which still works to this day. Regardless to the physical change of where the social club is based now and the new home of FC Edinburgh nearing completion, Things are looking good for them.
only 11 make the team,the rest can just but dream.
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Topic Originator: parzdaft
Date: Sat 18 Jun 00:30
In the end up, we are playing them this season. Reality bites.
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Topic Originator: Rigger Al
Date: Sat 18 Jun 01:11
What a stupid and embarrasing post ,excuse typos
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Sat 18 Jun 06:41
“All cities have their share of transients etc”
Brian Clough enjoyed his time at Brighton!
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Topic Originator: eastendalloapar
Date: Sat 18 Jun 07:24
I live in Alloa but I support Dunfermline, the only time that I want Alloa to win is when they play the Old Firm or the team from Grangemouth.
matt forsyth
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Sat 18 Jun 08:22
Edinburgh isn`t big enough to have two competitive teams.
They may fill their stadiums each home game, but those stadiums are circa one third the size of their OF counterparts.
Not sure what the alien city comment means, but Edinburgh is a world known and renowned place (people learning European languages for example will know that Edinburgh has its own version of its name in many languages, unlike say Glasgow), but as hearts and hibs they can’t capitalise on that.
For me, the proof is in the results.
Mercer was about 30 years ago… so that equates to 30 domestic leagues, 60 domestic cups and 60 European trophies up for grabs.
If hearts and hibs are big enough to be competitive then the stats will show if they have been competing for those honours.
When I have time I’ll check out how many of those domestic/European trophies they have won or been runners up in, but I fear the hard stats will actually show that as two teams in a a small city, they are nothing but SPFL also rans
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Topic Originator: par-91
Date: Sat 18 Jun 08:50
Quote:
DBP, Sat 18 Jun 08:22
Edinburgh isn`t big enough to have two competitive teams.
They may fill their stadiums each home game, but those stadiums are circa one third the size of their OF counterparts.
Not sure what the alien city comment means, but Edinburgh is a world known and renowned place (people learning European languages for example will know that Edinburgh has its own version of its name in many languages, unlike say Glasgow), but as hearts and hibs they can’t capitalise on that.
For me, the proof is in the results.
Mercer was about 30 years ago… so that equates to 30 domestic leagues, 60 domestic cups and 60 European trophies up for grabs.
If hearts and hibs are big enough to be competitive then the stats will show if they have been competing for those honours.
When I have time I’ll check out how many of those domestic/European trophies they have won or been runners up in, but I fear the hard stats will actually show that as two teams in a a small city, they are nothing but SPFL also rans
Firstly, your initial post said Edinburgh isn’t even big enough to have one football club. You still haven’t acknowledged that’s nonsense.
As for the above, there’s more to it than just the town/city they play in, that determines the success of a football team. I really don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. We all know that Hearts and Hibs are less successful than the old firm. But the old firm are successful, despite there being other teams in Glasgow. At one point, Queens Park and Third Lanark were the ‘big boys’ in Scottish football.
To be honest, much of the old firm’s success comes from overspending before everyone else, to distance themselves from the rest competitively and attract fans to the club when sky tv was coming out and attendances everywhere else were falling. They also attract fans from across the country who have disgusting attitudes and ‘support’ the clubs for reasons other than football. That has absolutely nothing to do with what city they play in.
Dunfermline, as a city, should be more successful than it is, going by your argument. But people moving to the area, as the town expanded, already had their own teams and won’t change just because they’ve moved. It’s like Livingston - as a relatively new area, with a decent population, they struggle because the majority that moved there already support/follow either an Edinburgh club or a Glasgow club.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 18 Jun 09:49
Topic Originator: Parboiled like
Date: Sat 18 Jun 06:41
“All cities have their share of transients etc”
Brian Clough enjoyed his time at Brighton!
I`m finding it quite hard to follow some of the posts in this thread but this one`s a complete mystery. Can anyone explain it - maybe even Parboiled himself?
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Sat 18 Jun 10:34
I think it`s that his time as manager was only six months odd which would make him transient at Brighton.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 18 Jun 10:47
Yes, Clough had a brief, unsuccessful spell as manager of Brighton but what`s the relevance to this thread which was considering the transient nature of the population of cities, ie potential supporters rather than football professionals? Maybe I`m overthinking it.
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Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle
Date: Sat 18 Jun 12:18
Would rather have a thriving bunch of smaller teams strewn across Scotland’s towns and cities than have a single Scottish football league consisting of 4 big teams playing each other 68 times a year. Somehow don’t think that will attract 60k supporters to each game :)
This is my signature
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Sat 18 Jun 13:21
Quote:
Milos Drizzle, Sat 18 Jun 12:18
Would rather have a thriving bunch of smaller teams strewn across Scotland’s towns and cities than have a single Scottish football league consisting of 4 big teams playing each other 68 times a year. Somehow don’t think that will attract 60k supporters to each game :)
Yep I’m confused as I’ve also come to conclusion that that seems to be the point DBP is making - unless you’re going to have the success of the Old Firm then there’s no point in your team existing.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Sat 18 Jun 16:35
No my initial point is that Edinburgh is already saturated with football teams to the point where they’re not going to be competing for any major honours… so there definitely isn’t any room for as third
My second point is that if Edinburgh had one team, it may be able to be more than making up the numbers and could actually compete for stuff
PS how is saying that meaning I’m advocating only 4 teams playing each other 68 times a season?
Post Edited (Sat 18 Jun 16:36)
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Topic Originator: neils
Date: Sat 18 Jun 16:56
But I don`t think Edinburgh City/FC are trying to dominate Scottish football or win the Champions League, they`re just finding their level, and every now and again punch above/below. The fact that Hibs are just down the road won`t bother them, same as it doesn`t bother me that they play just across the water sometimes on the same night, I only care about the Pars and our level.
Same as every other club outside the ugly sisters I think.
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Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle
Date: Sat 18 Jun 20:45
My point is that, first and foremost, it’s not about major honours. It’s about niche, history, your mates, pain and joy, the occasional flash of brilliance. It doesn’t matter to me that what I’m watching is a bit crude, as long as it’s honest and competitive. I’ll probably never witness major honours with the Pars, yet that doesn’t lessen my desire to support them and be part of the journey.
This is my signature
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Sun 19 Jun 09:53
Those things aren’t mutually exclusive though… what you’ve described is the reasons why it’s fine for some to support also-rans that aren’t going to win the league/maybe win one domestic cup every fifty/hundred years and will never make any mark in Europe going forward…
I suppose I’m just thinking about why it is that we have so many uncompetitive teams who are at least challenging for those things.(I’d question your remark about also-rans being competitive, as the stats shows they’re not competing for those things).
I also don’t think that is a healthy state of affairs… I worry about the long term prospects as we slowly become more like the welsh league. Niche was an interesting word to use as most things niche don’t last, and are certainly not viable long term
I know it’s not a popular view, but personally I would rather see one team from Aberdeen. Dundee, Edinburgh, Fife, Ayrshire, couple from the highlands, OF (you get the gist) with say one league of 10-16 teams that all are in with a shout for the league/cups/etc
I think that would be much more exciting, could lead to a much better match experience and be much more sustainable in the long term.
I’m still envious of the GAA (I go to about 4 or 5 football and hurling matches a year - local and county level). They still have all their wee local teams playing each other in their wee stadium with their small supports, but the real competition is when the counties come together and everyone gets behind the one team and it’s a much better experience and much more competitive.
In that same 30 years they’ve had ten different county winner of the all Ireland at football and eight different winners of the hurling (different counties from the football winners as some counties really focus only on the hurling)
So maybe that’s the ideal for me… a kinda domestic super league where I can support Dunfermline against kelty, fc Edinburgh, etc but then also get behind county Fife hump the OF!
And maybe when you boil it down, I just want to see the OF get humped regularly! 😂
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 19 Jun 10:46
Surely this already exists to some extent? The "big" teams are primarily the ones based in the largest areas - Aberdeen, Celtic, Dundee, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Hibs, Rangers. Then you move onto the towns like Inverness, Hamilton, Kilmarnock, Paisley.
Obviously this doesn`t always ring true. There`s no big team in Stirling, St Johnstone are poorly supported and teams like Raith, Ayr and us don`t match the town size.
Let`s be honest, a Fife County would be poorly supported on the basis of so many weegie immigrants in the 50s who still bring up their "weans" to support Celtic/Rangers.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Sun 19 Jun 11:13
I’d argue Dundee can’t support two competitive teams (again, look at the stats over last 30 years
When you think they’re next door neighbours that situation is even more ridiculous
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Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Sun 19 Jun 13:12
So from your various comments above, Edinburgh (530,000) should have only one team, as should Aberdeen (230,000) and Dundee (150,000). Why would it be OK to have two teams from Aberdeen and Dundee combined when they have a smaller combined population than Edinburgh, but Edinburgh shouldn`t have more than one?
If you take the view that there should be a limited number of teams based on population in an area, then I think you should say roughly what that population per team should be. However, due to the contradiction I`ve pointed out above, you can`t really do that and so it`s not a surprise that many find your arguments a bit silly.
The existence of Edinburgh City, whatever they want to call themselves, makes absolutely no difference to how well Hearts or Hibs can compete at national level. Zero. The same is true of the very many other clubs from Edinburgh and across the Lothians that draw comparatively small crowds to their home games, who happen to play outside the SPFL.
It annoys me when anyone wishes small clubs, whose sole objective is to play football at whatever level, to not exist. It`s wrong, and whenever I hear it I always think that the person saying it can have very little feel for the game as a whole.
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Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle
Date: Sun 19 Jun 13:53
The whole ecosystem of small teams also lets thousands of folks play organised, competitive football (a good thing in itself), whether making a living or contributing to one. Take away that, leaving the only opportunity being a handful of teams, and who knows what will unravel.
This is my signature
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Sun 19 Jun 14:57
Haven’t really done the arithmetic as just saying that Edinburgh is too small to have the competitive teams…
The other option is to believe everything is brilliant and keep going the way we are while we slowly become the a copy of the league of wales
Post Edited (Sun 19 Jun 14:57)
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Topic Originator: ianbd6
Date: Sun 19 Jun 15:33
The vast majority of football clubs across the world win next to no titles or cups. To have a league system you will always have a team at the top and one at the bottom and those inbetween will be either kicking themselves for missing out or happy the have stayed where they are. Most of the big leagues across Europe over the last 25 to 30 years have have relatively few clubs win their respective league. Just having a large population to target doesn`t mean you have an automatic chance of success just as having a small population doesn`t mean you will fail. If it did then East Kilbride wouldn`t be a non league club and Bradford City wouldn`t be in England`s fourth tier on the flip side Burnley and Hoffenheim wouldn`t have competed in the top division in their respective countries. Going back to the thread title. I am guessing that the ECFC were not a limited company. So why not become limited under a different name but carry on playing under ECFC but not as a limited company.
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Topic Originator: Ladswell_Thistle
Date: Mon 20 Jun 09:49
Is there no rule for minimum capacity?
They will be playing Dunfermline, Falkirk etc with a capacity of 499 as it stands.
They don`t have permission to build another stand due to some housing issue next to where it would be.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Mon 20 Jun 10:06
If we can’t make leagues more competitive, then what will happen (slowly) is that something like the champions league will become more and more of a super-league and the domestic leagues will become less and less important to the point where they wither on the vine or become hobby leagues.
The failed super league was only the first thrust and it’ll continue by stealth for the next while
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