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 Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Ronaldo  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 20:00

Us winning our opening league game yesterday got me thinking about the first league match of 2001/02 when we beat Motherwell 5-2.

It`s probably the best start to a season I can remember with two goals from the awesome Jack de Gier, leaving us all to ponder how good we might have been if Jack had stuck around. It`s one of the great Dunfermline `what ifs`.

Which Pars `what if`comes back to haunt you from time to time?



Post Edited (Sun 31 Jul 20:01)
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: NikNakPar  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 20:07

More recently

What if McManus squared it to Aird at Tannadice.
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Connor560  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 20:17

What If the referee gave the handball against Balde at Hampden

C'mon Ye Pars!

Post Edited (Mon 01 Aug 12:13)
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Steve mcgregor  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 20:25

Quote:

Connor560, Sun 31 Jul 20:17

What If the referee gave the habdball against Balde at Hampden


According to the Celtic fans he never handball it. But we all know differently. Wished they had VAR then
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 20:36

Agreed, if Jackie, Jackie, Jackie, Jackie-Goal De Geir had stayed with us for more than 12 games, we would have won the Premiership that season.

What if, Jackie McNamara stuck around for a few seasons more and wasn`t sold on the cheap?

What if, Jock Stein had stayed, how far could he have taken it?

The Balde incident, clear penalty, we would have went on to win the Cup. I still wouldn`t like there to have been VAR though, it`s those sort of incidents and injustices that make football what it is (was).

I often think, what if Norrie had got his house checked over, a future Pars manager surely
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 20:45

Quote:

NikNakPar, Sun 31 Jul 20:07

More recently

What if McManus squared it to Aird at Tannadice.


That`s the one that immediately came to my mind

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: M-PAR  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 21:10

Quote:

da_no_1, Sun 31 Jul 20:45

Quote:

NikNakPar, Sun 31 Jul 20:07

More recently

What if McManus squared it to Aird at Tannadice.


That`s the one that immediately came to my mind


Same here. I’m convinced we would have gone up that season if we’d got past Dundee Utd. We would have beat livi over 2 legs and partick were there for the taking that season.

COYP!
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: dafc  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 21:19

Has to be the Balde Handball. Pretty sure Larsson equalised pretty much immediately.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 21:46

What if they had kept Jim Leishman as manager in 1990

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: AB Loyal  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 22:32

what if Peter Grant never got appointed last Summer?

What if Faisal had stayed in Summer of 2016?

The Prophet - 12/07/18, 13/06/19, 10/07/20
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: twin par  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 22:39

If jock stein,had stayed on,as manager.
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 22:43

If Jim Heriot had made contact with the ball at Hampden!
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: twin par  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 23:01

Good shout Lochgelly!
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: twin par  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 23:02

If Alex edwards,had not missed a penalty, against Anderlecht.
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: The Roy Barry Fan Club  
Date:   Mon 1 Aug 00:01

If Slovan Bratislava hadn`t scored a break-away equaliser in the 1969 semi final first leg....

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Sammy_Must_Die  
Date:   Mon 1 Aug 00:05

Quote:

Connor560, Sun 31 Jul 20:17

What If the referee gave the habdball against Balde at Hampden


This



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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Mon 1 Aug 03:28

What if they had kept Jim Leishman as manager in 1990




This... the board`s decision to "promote" JL and appoint Ian Munro was catastrophic from the football club`s perspective. Perhaps not from a footballing perspective, but certainly from a club perspective.

Having built the fanbase from a few hundred in the second division to drawing 11,000+ fans to EEP for games against very modest opposition, it was heartbreaking to see it all turn to dust with this insane decision.

Outside of the OF, the Edinburgh clubs, and Aberdeen, the Pars at that time had a huge support in Scottish terms, and in truth, that was down to the efforts of Jim Leishman in no small measure.

Imagine if, instead of having a mass fan exodus as we did, we had retained that fanbase of 30 years ago... and those young fans then had kids of their own, and they were brought up to be Pars fans too...

Think of the possibilities. What could have transpired?

What if, indeed...

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: wjmcm  
Date:   Mon 1 Aug 07:30

My great "what if" : What if the referee in the game at EEP against Dundee Utd (1965?) had had a decent view of Roy Barry`s marvellous tackle round the Utd player in front of goal. He made no contact with the player but the ref was behind him and gave a penalty. Utd got a draw and we lost league by a pont. If I remember correctly it was the penultimate match.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 1 Aug 09:03

Quote:

wjmcm, Mon 01 Aug 07:30

My great "what if" : What if the referee in the game at EEP against Dundee Utd (1965?) had had a decent view of Roy Barry`s marvellous tackle round the Utd player in front of goal. He made no contact with the player but the ref was behind him and gave a penalty. Utd got a draw and we lost league by a pont. If I remember correctly it was the penultimate match.


The penultimate game that season was against St.Johnstone when Sir Fergie missed a sitter at the town end - if memory serves.
The Saturday before the cup final.
Roy didn’t play for the club until 1966.
You are thinking of another game methinks.

Post Edited (Mon 01 Aug 09:03)
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 1 Aug 09:54

What if these cricketers hadn`t decided to meet in the Old Inn in 1885...

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Mon 1 Aug 10:22

rose tinted specs on De Gier? he did go 10 games without a goal after that motherwell game.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Ronaldo  
Date:   Mon 1 Aug 10:40


You`re probably right, Pompey ... but never let the facts get in the way of a good `what if`. :o)

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: RMGpar  
Date:   Mon 1 Aug 11:05

Yeah what if that tragedy in 1996 never occurred and Norrie was still with us today… would he have went on to become a long term pars manager.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Mon 1 Aug 12:05

Mine is `what if SPL rules didn`t require a 10,000 all seater in the late 90`s` - watching the pars has never been the same since then. Imagine if the money spent could have spent elsewhere and imagine if the atmosphere in EEP could be something like it was before everyone had to sit down.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: PARadise  
Date:   Mon 1 Aug 22:54

What if Ross Millen got rid of the ball away at Partick when we were 3-2 up
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: ParfectXI  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 09:23

What if Dunfermline hadn’t gone down the mates route with Davie Hay and appointed one of the big names who were sniffing around after JC left.

Javier Clemente anyone?

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: LEGEND85  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 09:39

I think the Leishman situation and the Balde handball are the two what if moments.

Would we have sustained the crowds back then because if we had then what a game changer that would have been.

The Balde handball if we go 2-0 up that pars team was good enough to see that game out and winning the Scottish Cup would mean so much but sadly that didn`t happen
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 11:05

I still harbour some kind of conspiracy theory about the 2004 final - there was no way the `Larsson Final` was ever going to end up with Larsson on the losing side.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 11:58

Quote:

Bandy, Tue 2 Aug 11:05

I still harbour some kind of conspiracy theory about the 2004 final - there was no way the `Larsson Final` was ever going to end up with Larsson on the losing side.



Nah, if that was the case the Skerla goal would`ve been ruled out for a foul on the keeper.


I don`t think there`s any big "what if`s" with regards to us winning that game, I`d imagine our history afterwards would`ve been the exact same, we would`ve had a Scottish Cup win though which would`ve been nice.


St Johnstone and Inverness are living proof that winning the cups didn`t bring a great change in there status, attendances or longer term league positions...
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 12:20

"Nah, if that was the case the Skerla goal would`ve been ruled out for a foul on the keeper."

A lot of referees would have disallowed that as you say.

What if Labonte hadn`t stumbled to let Henrik in on goal ?

Going back some more years - what if Joe McBride had signed to partner Sir Fergie in the 60s ?

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 12:49

As amazing as the Leishman era was, I feel the attendances are over-egged a bit. There`s categorically no way on earth we were regularly getting close to five figure home supports.

You`ve got to put our average gate into context where away supports for Old Firm, Edinburgh sides and Aberdeen were absolutely massive at the time.

We were also toiling a bit towards the end of the 89/90 season so you can almost understand why the board did what they did. Not that I agreed with it.
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 13:16

Similarly re the 2004 final, if we got a penalty, there`s probably only a 75% chance we score. Then, even at 2-0, it`s maybe 50/50 at best that we hold on to win against that Celtic side.

Still, it would have been nice to be in that position.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 13:44

"I don`t think there`s any big "what if`s" with regards to us winning that game, I`d imagine our history afterwards would`ve been the exact same, we would`ve had a Scottish Cup win though which would`ve been nice."


A Scottish Cup win is no small thing but I also think had we win we`d gave entered the UEFA Cup a round later. No more Half a jaffa cake defeat.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 14:05

Quote:

Rusty Shackleford, Tue 2 Aug 12:49

As amazing as the Leishman era was, I feel the attendances are over-egged a bit. There`s categorically no way on earth we were regularly getting close to five figure home supports.

You`ve got to put our average gate into context where away supports for Old Firm, Edinburgh sides and Aberdeen were absolutely massive at the time.

We were also toiling a bit towards the end of the 89/90 season so you can almost understand why the board did what they did. Not that I agreed with it.


You`re right. In run of the mill games we were averaging around 5000 but in those days we had the likes of Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen etc bringing very large away supports and of course the average attendances being around the 10000 mark were due to full houses against the old firm. 18000 capacity back then.
Leishman though deserves huge credit for building our fan base in the earlier years through the divisions.
He was instantly likeable and the media`s dream for a story.
His passion shone through and the decision to remove him in 1990 will remain one of our clubs most outrageous own goals in history so we will disagree there that it was understandable.
We had just signed a number of players like Rhodes, Moyes and others and I remember a real feeling of optimism for 1990/91 season.
Worth remembering in his two stints as manager totalling about 10 seasons, we only got relegated once from the Premier league.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte


Post Edited (Tue 02 Aug 14:08)
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Paralex  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 16:49

What if the referee had actually seen the ball hitting Dorrans chest and he didn`t award a penalty to Hamilton and send Dorrans off, we might still be in the Championship.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: DNCH  
Date:   Thu 4 Aug 05:51

Balde’s handball was bad but Celtic didn’t look like scoring until Labonte fell over. We could’ve won that game. They were rattled and their fans were getting on their backs. As soon as Larsson went through, even at an angle, Stillie might has well have been invisible.

The one that is worse for me though is the 07 final. Mark Burchill had a clear chance and should’ve stuck it away (deliberately missed because he was an ex-Celtic player? I’m not here to launch conspiracy theories). We were all over Celtic that day and they scraped a victory with a dodgy goal. I maintain if the SFA had ruled in our favor and allowed McManus to play we would’ve won.

Has a team ever won the Scottish Cup and been relegated? Unsure but we may have claimed an embarrassing stat.

The sad thing is, we’re so far from that type of experience these days it’s grim. The Fife teams are so far away that our rivals in Kirkcaldy treat an inter-divisional challenge cup as major honors. As a life long Par I’ve only ever wanted a League or Scottish Cup. Playing in the top flight etc is arbitrary to me. Who cares? But those days out at Hampden between 04-07 made it worthwhile. Even if only for a moment here and there.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 4 Aug 09:13

Now Stillie is getting grief about Celtic’s equaliser ? He tried to narrow the angle but Larsson was in his comfort zone with a chance like that.

As for suggesting Burchill might have deliberately missed the early opportunity - unbelievable - it was in the half chance category and had to be taken quickly - no way did he fluff it on purpose.

Not sure about the McManus situation - maybe the SFA applied the relevant rules ?

Football is full of “what if” scenarios - St.Johnstone were hard done by in the 1968 semi by a short sighted linesman at Tynecastle, maybe they should have been in the final.
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Thu 4 Aug 10:20

Burchill`s chance was also really early in the game - like the 3rd or 4th minute. Whilst it would have been nice if he`d scored there was so much time left in the game that it can`t really be classed as a `What If`.

Doumbe`s goal in that game wasn`t `dodgy` - it was scrappy, but perfectly legal. Incredibly, it`s the only goal he ever scored in his professional career.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Thu 4 Aug 11:21

We also weren`t all over Celtic
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 4 Aug 12:03

What if Willie Miller hadn`t met Jimmy Calderwood in the car park?

Might have gone bankrupt quicker?🤔
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: DAFCinBK  
Date:   Thu 4 Aug 12:40

totally agree that the decision in 1990 is a major what if. It was heartbreaking at the time watching the spirit of the team disappear under Munro.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 4 Aug 12:41

Quote:

Rusty Shackleford, Thu 04 Aug 11:21

We also weren`t all over Celtic


Nor were we in danger of relegation.

Post Edited (Thu 04 Aug 12:42)
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford  
Date:   Thu 4 Aug 15:15

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 4 Aug 12:41

Quote:

Rusty Shackleford, Thu 04 Aug 11:21

We also weren`t all over Celtic


Nor were we in danger of relegation.


The 2007 game we`re talking about here.
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Lambo1885  
Date:   Thu 4 Aug 15:38

"Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 4 Aug 12:41

Quote:

Rusty Shackleford, Thu 04 Aug 11:21

We also weren`t all over Celtic


Nor were we in danger of relegation.


The 2007 game we`re talking about here."

We`d already been relegated.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 4 Aug 18:18

Senior moment there - assumed it was the `04 final.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: DNCH  
Date:   Fri 5 Aug 01:58

We had Celtic on the ropes in that 07 final. We never seriously threatened but the Celtic fans were on their back and the players were making mistakes. I dunno, I just had a feeling that day that it was our best chance. The 04 team playing against us had at least 4/5 players that could score out of nowhere.

It felt like we could’ve snuck it that day. Never liked that 2 out of our 3 finals then we wore an all black strip and in the other one had a white strip with a single white line. Lunacy. The one used Euro strip after that was a classic Pars strip.

Anyway, long live Barry Nicholson, Stevie Crawford and Craig Brewster and to a lesser extent Lee Bullen who, whilst being one of those weird players that Pars fans seem to latch on to, was largely useless.

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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Fri 5 Aug 07:29

Lee Bullen signed as a striker and looked like was going to fork.a good partnership with Stevie Crawford before he broke his leg. He then looked to be on his way out before filling in at right back and actually turning in some decent performances resulting in a new contract and an almost permanent place in the side. He also scored a fantastic goal against Hearts, one of the best goals I`ve ever seen live in the flesh. To suggest he was largely useless is some take, I`ll give you that.



Post Edited (Fri 05 Aug 07:32)
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: parfection  
Date:   Fri 5 Aug 07:46

I feel that applying the epithet ‘largely useless’ to Lee Bullen is unnecessarily harsh - he was much better than that.
Developing an affection for certain players is also not peculiar to the Pars. Almost all clubs will have such cult favourites who are not perhaps in their pantheon of best players, but are loved for other things. Bullen was deservedly popular for his obvious effort, honesty and commitment - and of course ‘that’ goal. 😀
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: Adundeemonkey  
Date:   Fri 5 Aug 08:08

Balde handball is the most obvious one in my time watching the Pars. Nothing comes close.

But the one I never hear talked about is how we just missed the chance to win the league in the 60s. I think it was the 64/65 season and when you look at what we did in the run in, it`s heartbreaking. We even had a superior goal difference calculation which decided the league which we missed by 1pt. 1pt and we would have won the league. I`m glad I wasn`t alive as I don`t know how I would have gotten over it. Although being about for the cup wins and European nights would have made up for it I suppose!



Post Edited (Fri 05 Aug 08:17)
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 Re: Great Dunfermline `what ifs`
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 5 Aug 08:41

The end of 64/65 season is more complicated than thinking 1 more point would win the league.

Hearts threw it away - a draw on the final Saturday would have been enough for them to take the title in all circumstances.

Post Edited (Fri 05 Aug 08:52)
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